Foo - Speeding ticket...help me!

I was driving yesterday, about 40 miles away from home, first time on the highway, coming off into a town I've never been to to drop my friend off. I just got off the thruway, right into his town and passed a cop going 47 in a 30. Keep in mind I have absolutely no clue what the speed limit is, it's 12 in the morning, it's my first time riding on the thruway and I've never even been in this town. Now, I'm trying to keep this from my dad, of course he's the registered owner of the car, but I'm gonna try and hide it from him because I'm 18 and can go to court without him.

Now I'm thinking of pleading not guilty, and trying to talk to the judge, or whoever I'm assigned to talk to, and hopefully get off with a parking violation and no points on my record. Honestly, I DO the speed limit posted, and I never speed, I just didn't realize what the speed limit was because I just pulled off the highway and didn't see any signs. It's my first ticket too, so I'm hoping they reduce it. Any help or advice?

Well, tell them that you didn't see any signs and hope they believe you.

Only chance you have is to prove that there were no speeding signs between where you got off, and where you got the ticket.. I would bet there is one.. small hard to see.. classic speed trap

Cop probably took the signs down and put them back up after the ticket. If this is your first ticket just go to driving school and the points will go bye bye.

Hire a good attourney.

You may want to spend some time reading through the following thread - it has some useful general advice re: legal arguments, court appearances, etc. I happen to have related a specific experience with a speeding ticket.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=586080

Keeping this from dad: not to burst your bubble, but (in CA, at least) I'm pretty sure a summons arrives in the mail regarding the incident/charge, how much the fine is, when to appear in court if you challenge it, etc. If you live at home - you would need to intercept all mail for a week or two. Ask a fellow NY dweller who has had a similar experience.

My recommendation - come clean w/ dad. You're new behind the wheel, the infraction seems pretty mild, and he probably had something similar happen when he started driving. The incident does sound like a typical speed trap. If dad is a macho guy, this could be a badge of honor - I know, I'm old school. Of course, only you can make this decision.

Moving violations and parking violations don't relate. The officer claimed there was a moving violation - that is the only thing that will be addressed - and possibly/hopefully dismissed.

If not, traffic school may be your friend re: insurance points.

Do return to the scene of the crime (sorry) and check out the speed limit signs. Think of reasonable arguments that support your innocence. If the position of the sign makes it difficult to read (tree branches in the way, etc.) take pictures to back your arguments up.

Good luck - and remember, sh*t like this happens to all of us.

First ticket they will probably drop it to something else to keep all the money instead of sharing it with the state. You will be better off telling your dad though just in case. The wrath of dad if you don't come clean can be much worse than what the courts can do.

I'm not even sure if the sign was hidden, it was midnight and I wasn't totally paying attention. I just figured after getting right off the thruway it couldn't be that much of a change. I found the Springville(town I was in) lawbook or whatever on the internet, and the speed throughout the entire small town is 30, so I'm screwed with that.

I can intercept the mail, the mail comes before hes home everyday. A few of my friends have had their speeding tickets reduced to parking violations so I know it's possible, only a $50 fine with no points, makes things a lot easier, but I don't know how that's gonna work out because it was never in Springville.

I really don't have a LEGITIMATE argument, and I probably won't have to TESTIFY against him, probably just go to the town prosecutor, explain what happened, why, when and all that, and hopefully just get it reduced then. I asked a few of my friends and that's what they've had happen to them, I can only hope the same happens to me, or even better, the cop doesn't show up and everything's dismissed. I'm just really pissed off because it's 40 miles away from my home...

Buck up,be a man,tell dad and pay the fine and get on with life,oh and don't speed.Hope the authorities in Springville don't read this site as you have admitted your guilt to us and possibly this site and admission could be used against you in court.

I'm not even sure if the sign was hidden, it was midnight and I wasn't totally paying attention. I just figured after getting right off the thruway it couldn't be that much of a change.
When you drive you need to always pay attention, always. And you can never assume. Never; no matter what else is going on in the car or around you.

Maybe this ticket isn't such a bad thing after all, then? Better to learn your "wasn't paying attention" lesson with a ticket than an accident, right?

Your dad will find out sooner or later. Come clean. If you are found guilty of speeding, and your insurance gos up, I'm assuming your on the family policy, it will be indicated as a speeding ticket. You dad will say WTF? He will be more pissed because he didn't know it was comming. Explain the facts, chances are he was caught once in something similar. You'll be better off if he fiind out sooner rather than later.

Tell your dad. He may be able to help. My son got a speeding ticket which I was able to get reduced right over the phone. It was a small town in upstate NY. Sounds like the same thing that happened to you. Don't just plead guilty and pay it. That's the dumbest thing you could do.

Sorry to hear that. I believe I can help you put a strategy in action.

FOIA (freedom of information act) request all pertinent documents involving the stop. Directions for doing this can be found on the web. Tell them any notation in any medium, and any other evidence they have on you, you want to cross examine. Video(s), notes, radar gun records, everything they've got.

The best thing that can happen, and it's happened to me, is that the cop goes and runs his or her mouth like an idiot, and contradicts his or her own notes not even knowing you have your own copy. This is grounds to have the charges dismissed if that happens. But certainly it can't be relied on.

The other benefit of having that evidence is that you can compare it to the exact charges that are on the ticket. If the law sites something you weren't doing, and the notes even say you were doing something different, you can get the charges dropped that way too.

After doing that, you should go back with someone else and a video camera, and a regular camera. Take a video as well as a series of pictures as you drive through, in order to prove you didn't see a speed limit sign. Or, if there is one, and it is hard to see, you could also use that as a mitigating circumstance, at least to ask the judge or magistrate to lessen the charges.

Yes, your dad will find out. I would tell your dad, and ask for his help taking the pictures. If there is no sign, simply take the pics to the hearing, and show it to the judge or magistrate, and ask for the charges to be dropped in light of the fact it's clearly a vicious speed trap designed to extort money from innocent drivers. Or, if there is a sign, try to show good cause as to why you missed it and they unfairly targeted you.

I was driving yesterday, about 40 miles away from home, first time on the highway, coming off into a town I've never been to to drop my friend off. I just got off the thruway, right into his town and passed a cop going 47 in a 30. Keep in mind I have absolutely no clue what the speed limit is, it's 12 in the morning, it's my first time riding on the thruway and I've never even been in this town. Now, I'm trying to keep this from my dad, of course he's the registered owner of the car, but I'm gonna try and hide it from him because I'm 18 and can go to court without him.

Now I'm thinking of pleading not guilty, and trying to talk to the judge, or whoever I'm assigned to talk to, and hopefully get off with a parking violation and no points on my record. Honestly, I DO the speed limit posted, and I never speed, I just didn't realize what the speed limit was because I just pulled off the highway and didn't see any signs. It's my first ticket too, so I'm hoping they reduce it. Any help or advice?
Go to your local DMV office and return your license.

Join the nearest Lodge, then show up in court with you square and compass ring on. You will make at least two new friends (now brothers) and learn all about how it pays to be a member.

Or do like I did this past Jan and show up begging for mercy and hope the Judge has pity on you like he did me.

Tell your dad.

Go to court if you want to try to beat it, but be prepared to lose, unless the cop doesn't show up.

Tell your dad (did I mention Tell your dad?).

All the people that say "never" and "always" when referring to driving are "always" hypocrites. Remember that when the preachin' gets preachy.

With that out of the way, just go in and try to fight it. If it doesn't work out, pay up and move on. As for telling your pops: that's up to you, but you're probably better off with the truthful route.

Tell your dad.

Go to court if you want to try to beat it, but be prepared to lose, unless the cop doesn't show up.

Tell your dad (did I mention Tell your dad?).

Here in Austin, if the cop doesn't show up, the judge just reschedules the case on the docket. Its no longer an automatic acquittal.

Towns want the speeding ticket revenue badly.

Oh boy, been down this road.

Yeah you sped, but in interest of not getting raped on insurance surcharges for the next 3-7 years, do your best to fight it.

But most importantly, please learn a lesson. If you come upon a small town from a highway... any highway, roll through at 30mph at most regardless of how easy the sign is to see. Lot of these towns are speed traps, but even so, keeping the speed down through down also has safety implications for the people there.

Lastly tell your father. He's probably dealt with something similar too.

I highly recommend taking defensive driving and paying their admin fee and just getting done with it. Small towns hope you just drop the cash in the mail in the pre-addressed envelope, but it doesn't just rack up the insurance premiums and score points.

Employers can be very choosy now, and having traffic convictions (which are public record) can get you denied a job.

So, fight the ticket, or take a comedy defensive driving course.

FYI: never go too fast on the 219. There is usually a speed trap between buffalo and springville. (sometimes on the on ramps so you don't see them)

You'd better not buy a carbon bike, then, or you'll end up REALLY screwed.

:D

Hire a good attourney.

x1000000

I've been in court and watched people w/o attorneys try to defend themselves against a traffic charge and if the cop shows up, its more than even money that no matter WHAT you say, the judge is going to go with the cop, and you'll be stuck with the ticket AND court costs.

I've even seen a couple of people get carted off for a weekend because they mouthed off to the judge arguing with the cop.

With an attorney, you probably won't have to get up to the bench; s/he'll go up and handle the entire thing for you. You just have to show up; make SURE you wear (or borrow) a decent shirt, tie, and pants. A jacket doesn't hurt either.

Even in the most backwoods court, dressing decent makes a difference because the judge will see that you take the court seriously and respect the institution.

Its worth spending the money for a few hours' of lawyer time; it will save you 1000s in the long run on car insurance.

Here's what you do, since you likely don't have the cash for an attorney. Ready? You won't like it, but tough.

Tell your dad. Pay the ticket (you were speeding after all, and have admitted it. No chance to plead not-guilty now). Take your lumps. Learn from the experience.

Why do kids always want to get out of their responsibility? You don't learn by dodging your responsibility. You learn by stepping up and taking your lumps. Do it and learn your lesson. You'll be glad when you're older.

x1000000

I've been in court and watched people w/o attorneys try to defend themselves against a traffic charge and if the cop shows up, its more than even money that no matter WHAT you say, the judge is going to go with the cop, and you'll be stuck with the ticket AND court costs...

I beat one without a lawyer, for an expired tag. I tried to pay it the same day, being from out of town, and the clerk told me that it was a jailable offense, so I had to go to court. Thinking that did not make sense, I looked up the exact offense, and it said "tag expired more than 12 months"(it wasn't even 12 days!). The cop wrote down the wrong code. So, since they could not prove the charge on the ticket, I felt like I could beat it.

To top it off, I explained to the judge that I had to take a day off work and drive 200 miles to Miami. The judge said sternly, to the prosecutor "Are you hearing all this?!?" To me, "Case dismissed, thank you for your time". The prosecutor seemed truly overwhelmed, and clearly made no effort to check their case against me--the DMV is in the same freakin' building!

In this case, I doubt it would be so easy to beat. You could always take a shot that the cop would not show. I think most states will let you go to school to drop the points on your first ticket, which seems like the wise course. I don't see how a lawyer could get you a better deal for less, but maybe.

Take a video camera back to that location and film the route from the exit ramp. If you can demonstrate to the court that there is no speed limit sign between the exit ramp and where you were stopped, you MIGHT get leniency. However, depending upon your state, the speed limits for different types of roads may be codified, in which case you were technically responsible for knowing that, for example, the speed limit on a two-lane urban road shall be not greater than 30 miles per hour.

x1000000

I've been in court and watched people w/o attorneys try to defend themselves against a traffic charge and if the cop shows up, its more than even money that no matter WHAT you say, the judge is going to go with the cop, and you'll be stuck with the ticket AND court costs.

I have never, ever lost a ticket I took to court. Granted, I did end up paying one that was my fault and I had no objection to, but for something like this, it is defensible. Particularly if there is no sign. Frankly, the attitude of "give up, it's hopeless" is downright shameful. You CAN win in court on your own, and with the steps I laid out you CAN often make a cop look like a total idiot in court. Police who write stupid tickets often also write out stupid notes, if any.

When you have a moron cop who writes bogus tickets like this one might be, he or she often ends up having a bad reputation with judges and magistrates. This leads to bogus charges being dropped, because the word of a defendant is to be taken more seriously than the word of an imbecile officer.

If you aren't comfortable with taking your case on, go watch some cases yourself. Call a magistrate sir or ma'am, and call the judges your honor. Dress in the most down to business formal clothes you have. Lay your case out with your own report of what happened to reference, taking note of where your story might differ from the story of the cops notes, and have it with you in court with the video and pictures, ready to go. Plan out your statements in your head, almost obsessively striving to figure out how best to make the cop look stupid, and how to make yourself look like a victim. It IS doable, and you can do it. Again, particularly if there was no sign, or if there was some reason why you couldn't see it.

might want to read this before court...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/nyregion/22tickets.html

I have never, ever lost a ticket I took to court. Granted, I did end up paying one that was my fault and I had no objection to, but for something like this, it is defensible. Particularly if there is no sign. Frankly, the attitude of "give up, it's hopeless" is downright shameful. You CAN win in court on your own, and with the steps I laid out you CAN often make a cop look like a total idiot in court. Police who write stupid tickets often also write out stupid notes, if any.

When you have a moron cop who writes bogus tickets like this one might be, he or she often ends up having a bad reputation with judges and magistrates. This leads to bogus charges being dropped, because the word of a defendant is to be taken more seriously than the word of an imbecile officer.

If you aren't comfortable with taking your case on, go watch some cases yourself. Call a magistrate sir or ma'am, and call the judges your honor. Dress in the most down to business formal clothes you have. Lay your case out with your own report of what happened to reference, taking note of where your story might differ from the story of the cops notes, and have it with you in court with the video and pictures, ready to go. Plan out your statements in your head, almost obsessively striving to figure out how best to make the cop look stupid, and how to make yourself look like a victim. It IS doable, and you can do it. Again, particularly if there was no sign, or if there was some reason why you couldn't see it.

Like doing 47 in a 30 zone?

:rolleyes:

Like doing 47 in a 30 zone?

:rolleyes:

So what weight does a statute carry?

We said you're not to do this and you did so you owe us X dollars. Wouldn't a free country require there to be a damaged person or property before taking any of his money or liberty from him?

I'm just really pissed off because it's 40 miles away from my home...

Really? I mean seriously? 40 miles is quite far. I got a ticket about 2 miles if even away from home so don't even start. However it wasn't a speeding ticket but that is besides the point.

So what weight does a statute carry?

We said you're not to do this and you did so you owe us X dollars. Wouldn't a free country require there to be a damaged person or property before taking any of his money or liberty from him?

so if I shoot at you with a gun but I miss, that's ok since there wasn't any damage?

Like doing 47 in a 30 zone?

:rolleyes:

No, but I have helped people get out of sign related traps several times.

Setting up a trap because a cop knows people will miss a sign, or because they know there is none to inform them, seems to me to be incredibly vicious, and I would completely suggest that no one ever tolerate such abuse.

I can understand you saying someone should pay the fine and shut up in a circumstance such as this, because in your case in Arizona, an infinitely better state than Michigan or New York, the police are nice people who normally try to be as reasonable as they are friendly. Sadly, it isn't that way everywhere. The only way trouble like this can be fixed is to not stand for it.

so if I shoot at you with a gun but I miss, that's ok since there wasn't any damage?

Ahh...the "what if" game.

I hope many a fee and fine comes your way....because you owe society for the privilege of living here.

Same thing happened to me on Ridge Road in Lackawanna. I had my cousin with me in my mom's car. I was 18 at the time and the cop got me for 50 in a 30. I fessed up and told my parents. They were pissed but then again they knew the area and they weren't too surprised. (Two lanes each way, no traffic, and a 30 mph limit? Geez!)

I paid the ticket, sucked up the points. If traffic school is an option, go for that. But definitely... tell your parents.

I talked to a bunch of my friends who have had tickets going MORE than 17 over and still have got it reduced to, YES, as much as some of you says it can't happen...a parking violation. $50, $75, $100, what have you dollar fine, but still no points on my license and no boost in insurance rates, which is mainly what I'm worried about.

Either way I'm still going to plead not guilty, because it IS my first ticket offense and around here, at least, they sometimes let you off with a parking violation or something of that sort. Wouldn't I rather have a violation smaller than going 17mph over? There are better chances that it does get reduced if I fight it than if I don't. And it's my first one, I don't think I'll be needing a lawyer for a speeding ticket. Literally ALL of the stories I've heard end up as a reduced fine for the first one, hoping mine goes the same way. I'm still worried and pretty pissed off though, and probably will be until I go to court and get it figured out.

Same thing happened to me on Ridge Road in Lackawanna. I had my cousin with me in my mom's car. I was 18 at the time and the cop got me for 50 in a 30. I fessed up and told my parents. They were pissed but then again they knew the area and they weren't too surprised. (Two lanes each way, no traffic, and a 30 mph limit? Geez!)

I paid the ticket, sucked up the points. If traffic school is an option, go for that. But definitely... tell your parents.

Ridge Road is definitely a tricky one when it comes to speed. I think, mainly because it was my first time on the highway and I had just gotten off of it, I still had that "highway mentality," and was so used to going 65 for 40 miles that I had totally forgotten about it, not to mention the added on darkness and unknown area. I do often keep a look out for speed limit signs.

I went to Google Maps and while it isn't what I would call a speed trap(i.e signs aren't really HIDDEN), it was slightly dumb of the cop to say that I "passed two signs" when the one I passed was the second one where he pulled me over. I passed the sign, saw the speed limit and asked my friend(who lived in the area) what the speed limit was and bam, there was the cop as I passed the second one. And I DID slow down after seeing that second one, but it was too late as he had already radared me and pulled me over.

Wait... isn't traffic school an option? You know, that's a sure way to keep the points off your license, versus rolling the dice in court.

Also, think about it this way: Your friends who got their tickets reduced in court will eagerly tell you all about it. What about others that ended up paying the full ticket plus court costs? Do you think they're going around telling stories about how they FAILed in court? They probably just keep it to themselves. So all the anecdotes that you hear about where friends have their fines reduced may be misrepresenting your real chances in court.

As a parent of two young drivers myself, let me tell you: Your parents would much rather find out about your ticket BEFORE you go to court. Heck, they may even pay for a lawyer for you if you're on their insurance and they don't want their rates to go up. Your parents are placing a lot of trust in you by letting you drive their car. If you mess up and get a ticket, you owe it to them to let them know.

Be a stand-up guy, at least to your parents. Otherwise you're not very deserving of the trust they place in you when they give you the keys.

Have some integrity.

Wait... isn't traffic school an option? You know, that's a sure way to keep the points off your license, versus rolling the dice in court.

Also, think about it this way: Your friends who got their tickets reduced in court will eagerly tell you all about it. What about others that ended up paying the full ticket plus court costs? Do you think they're going around telling stories about how they FAILed in court? They probably just keep it to themselves. So all the anecdotes that you hear about where friends have their fines reduced may be misrepresenting your real chances in court.

As a parent of two young drivers myself, let me tell you: Your parents would much rather find out about your ticket BEFORE you go to court. Heck, they may even pay for a lawyer for you if you're on their insurance and they don't want their rates to go up. Your parents are placing a lot of trust in you by letting you drive their car. If you mess up and get a ticket, you owe it to them to let them know.

Be a stand-up guy, at least to your parents. Otherwise you're not very deserving of the trust they place in you when they give you the keys.

Have some integrity.

I told my mom, I knew she'd support me about it instead of putting me down about it like my dad would. And I've also heard stories about people failing in court and having to pay larger fines, but never for a speeding ticket. Trust me, I've asked most of them because of what I'm going through now.

Traffic school is an option, and if they offer that, I'm definitely willing to take it to keep the points off my license.

And the more you talk about your experience, the more it sounds like what happened to me on Ridge Road. At the time I was going to college out of the area, so I didn't see traffic school as an option (I believe to get traffic school you still had to go to court in those days, not sure what NY requires now).

If you tell any of that story at all, you admit your guilt. If you tell another story, you're lying in court (aka perjury). If the cop shows up, it sounds like you don't have much of a leg to stand on legally. So what you're left with is depending on the judge being a "nice guy" and being in a good mood that day.

First of all, tell your parents. [edit: okay, you told mom.... trust me, dad knows too]

Then if you decide to fight it in court, do this: If they give you a time to appear, show up an hour or so before hand and just sit in the court and watch how things proceed. If you see some people that are getting satisfactory outcomes and other that aren't, you need to do what the successful ones are doing.

When I was living in Michigan, I got a ticket and decided to argue it in court. I showed up early. The cop who wrote my ticket was getting all his cases handled that morning, so I got to see what worked and what didn't. In Michigan, there is a plea callled "Guilty with an Explanation" or something like that. When pleading that way, the person admits guilt, then explains to the judge what the extenuating circumstances are. In every single case, the person who pleaded this way paid their fine as court costs, but the ticket itself was dismissed.

The one exception was a lady who insisted on pleading Not Guilty. The judge asked if she was sure she wanted to plead that way. She said yes. The judge swore in the lady and swore in the cop. He asked the lady to give her side of the story, which was basically, "I really can't believe I was going that fast. I don't think I could have been going that fast." The judge turned to the cop and asked, "When was the radar gun last calibrated? When were you last trained in its operation? How fast was the defendant going, according to the radar gun?" The cop rattled off answers immediately. The judge turned to the lady and said, "On the one hand, you say, 'I can't believe' and 'I don't think'; on the other hand, I have a trained officer of the law who measured your speed with a duly calibrated instrument. I'm sorry, ma'am, but I have no choice than to find you guilty of the charge."

Because I went early, I learned that pleading Not Guilty was the surest way to walk out of there with points on my license.

Just call the clerk and find out how it works. For example, in my municipality if you plead not guilty it gets set for a "pretrial" with me (the prosecutor). If we can't work out an agreement, then it gets set for trial at a later date.

In Wisconsin at least, it ALWAYS makes sense to plead not guilty -- every prosecutor I know will offer you some sort of deal. How good of deal depends on the location, but you get a deal nonetheless.

As for showing up in Court, if you talk to the prosecutor (or judge) as part of the process, just play it straight. A lot of places here (me included) have standard offers for everything (e.g., a 15 over violation gets amended to a defective speedometer). One of the main reasons I deviate from my standard and impose higher penalties is when a defendant tries to screw with me. Especially at 18, if you come in by yourself, speak for yourself, be polite and honest, you'll get the best deal I can offer. If you come in and start with excuses and have a bad attitude, you'll get nowhere fast. Even worse (in my book at least) is when you come in with mom or dad and they do all the talking -- especially when they have the attitude.

Just call the clerk and find out how it works. For example, in my municipality if you plead not guilty it gets set for a "pretrial" with me (the prosecutor). If we can't work out an agreement, then it gets set for trial at a later date.

In Wisconsin at least, it ALWAYS makes sense to plead not guilty -- every prosecutor I know will offer you some sort of deal. How good of deal depends on the location, but you get a deal nonetheless.

As for showing up in Court, if you talk to the prosecutor (or judge) as part of the process, just play it straight. A lot of places here (me included) have standard offers for everything (e.g., a 15 over violation gets amended to a defective speedometer). One of the main reasons I deviate from my standard and impose higher penalties is when a defendant tries to screw with me. Especially at 18, if you come in by yourself, speak for yourself, be polite and honest, you'll get the best deal I can offer. If you come in and start with excuses and have a bad attitude, you'll get nowhere fast. Even worse (in my book at least) is when you come in with mom or dad and they do all the talking -- especially when they have the attitude.

Yeah I've heard they give good deals, like I said, non-moving violations, seeing the town will get the money instead of the state. I'm just gonna go in there and when I talk to the prosecutor, and he asks me to explain myself, I'll tell him my story of how I'm in a very unfamiliar zone with my first time coming right off of the thruway in the dark. I'm pretty new to having a license, so I don't know if that's going to work with or against me here. I've been told to dress pretty formally, so I'm going to, I'm not trying to risk anything here.