Advocacy & Safety - Nice wide hard shoulders

As I was cycling down the A2 this morning, trying to decide whether to carry on using the 2 ft wide (including 1ft wide drains)hard-shoulder with trucks brushing by, or try and take the centre of a lane I recalled something I'd seen out of a coach window the other week. When the A2 turns into the M2 its still two-lane but has a hard-shoulder of at least four-five feet often more.

Now its illegal to cycle on the Motorway, even if you used this lovely hard shoulder, yet I can freely cycle along the A2 which has exactly the same speed limit and at absolute best a 2ft shoulder, frequently no shoulder.

Does anybody understand this logic?

Sorry if this is a little UK-centric ;)

Richard

Stay off their precious shoulders!

Wide shoulders on motorways are not for us! They were designed with the motorist in difficulty in mind, so that he or she would not impede the orderly flow of traffic...
A dirty rotten shame in my view!

Louis T

In the US, there are a few areas of Interstate freeways where the states have decided to permit bicycle access. (Don't ask me where they are; I read this in a book about a cross-country tour some time ago.) For the most part the big freeways are forbidden to cyclists. So the same situation exists, though perhaps for different reasons.

If the shoulder were wide and consistent enough, I wouldn't feel out of place on a freeway. You're just as dead at 35 mph as you are at 80.

The single cogent argument against the bicycling on freeway shoulders is the extremely grave risk of collision at the freely-flowing, high-speed onramp merges and offramp diverges. One can solve this problem by stipulating that bicyclists exit and then re-enter at each interchange.

In California, bicyclists are permitted to use freeway shoulders when there is no reasonable alternate route. I frequently ride a 1km stretch of Interstate 5 (speed limit = 65mph/105kph) from Roselle St. to Genesee Av. The shoulder is smooth, straight, well-maintained, and more than 2M wide, and there are no merges or diverges between my entry and exit points. I feel much safer there than on a typical two-lane country road with little or no shoulder and a speed limit of 55mph/90kph.

Incidentally, the California Department of Transportation (CalTrans, affectionately referred to as "CarTrance" by many bicyclists) just concluded a study of bicycle safety on freeways and discovered (surprise, surprise) that bicycling on freeway shoulders is extremely safe, but that there is a high incidence of collisions at the merges, diverges, and free near-side turns associated with the access ramps, including the points at which these ramps meet the rest of the road system.

Which section of the A2 do you use? Im sure you must have an alternate route:
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=europe&X=615000&Y=155000&scale=100000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&coordsys=gb&db=&overviewmap=&scale=100000&multimap.x=303&multimap.y=131

Originally posted by MichaelW
Which section of the A2 do you use? Im sure you must have an alternate route:
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=europe&X=615000&Y=155000&scale=100000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&coordsys=gb&db=&overviewmap=&scale=100000&multimap.x=303&multimap.y=131


I have several alternative routes but by using a section just over a mile long between Dunkirk and Upper Harbledown, and just a few yards to cross to Harbledown I get a fairly direct yet reasonably quiet run to Canterbury from Faversham. I'm not convinced its anymore dangerous than using several miles of the A28 (single carriageway) which is one of my alternatives.

Richard

As an aside, those of you in the UK may have no idea how romantic it sounds to a Midwest US'r to hear about your casual jaunts through places where Chaucer or Shakespeare or, I dunno, Boy George, used to live... Here, there's so little history, and so few noted figures.... :) I used to think I ought to make some history, but time's running out....

"Nice wide hard shoulders "

And I thought you were talking about my build.

Foiled again!!

These forum topics fool me every time. :D

Yep there is no real alternative to the A2. That
Come summer though, there are some lovely small lanes and tracks to explore on the way back.

Originally posted by MichaelW
Yep there is no real alternative to the A2. That
Come summer though, there are some lovely small lanes and tracks to explore on the way back.

I sometimes turn off before Boughton and go up and round the woods above the A2 (or through them) but its a bit out of the way and adds a good 15 - 20 mins on the run. Oddly the third route which is cutting across country from Faversham, through Selling down to the A28 and into Canterbury that way is the longest route miles wise, but because it gets me roughly the right side of Canterbury is as quick time wise.

I'm far from terrified on the stretch of A2 it's mainly the air disturbance of a truck passing too close that I dislike. I tried riding near the centre of the lefthand lane, rather than in the hard shoulder but it made very little difference to the width they gave me... :(

Richard

I feel much safer there than on a typical two-lane country road with little or no shoulder and a speed limit of 55mph/90kph.


I feel the same. Yesterday I went for a ride in the hills and I took my MTB as this gives me more freedom to
take to the dirt when semi- trailers are passing, also because the roads are bad in places I don't have to
continually asses the road for bumps, debris etc. The roads are marked at 100kph/60mph. Somehow the
authorities think it is perfectly safe to ride on the 3 inches of bitumen to the left of the white line but not on
the freeway with the 8 foot shoulder. Lately if I hear a semi coming I will yield and wait for him to pass, they usually give me wave.

CHEERS.

Not biking on motorways is one of the few holy laws that I will never trespass. Although it’s tempting for example on the way from Stockholm to Nacka, where there’s a 2 or 3 km section of motorway. It’s very annoying to get lost on the small, bumpy and looong alternative roads, but still, I would never bike on the motorway. Maybe it’s a cultural thing that differs between different countries. I know Chris L (missed!) bikes with cars moving at 230 km/h... :eek:

I would not even want to drive a car in 230kph traffic!

In Australia we don't have Motorways like Europe does. Even though they are called Motorways in New south Wales
they are really freeways. The speed limit is either 100kph or 110kph. We don't have "open" speed limits like
Germany and other countries in Europe.

So other than entering and exiting the freeway, there is no real reason why a bike can't ride on that beautiful 8 foot wide shoulder.

CHEERS.

Mark

Originally posted by Dutchy
So other than entering and exiting the freeway, there is no real reason why a bike can't ride on that beautiful 8 foot wide shoulder.
There might not be a real reason, but that doesn’t matter. There’s no real reason why cars couldn’t use the shoulder either.

Originally posted by swekarl

There might not be a real reason, but that doesn’t matter. There’s no real reason why cars couldn’t use the shoulder either.
Well actually there are. Admittedly they're only legal rather than physical reasons, but they are there.

I reckon motorways are some of the safest roads you can ride on (also some of the most boring). There's more to safely sharing the road than mere speed diferential. This is something that the scaremongering motorists currently ranting about cyclists using the M1 here in SE Queensland could do well to learn. And banning cyclists in lieu of encouraging responsible driving is the very height of ignorance.

Originally posted by Allister

Well actually there are. Admittedly they're only legal rather than physical reasons, but they are there.

I reckon motorways are some of the safest roads you can ride on (also some of the most boring). There's more to safely sharing the road than mere speed diferential. This is something that the scaremongering motorists currently ranting about cyclists using the M1 here in SE Queensland could do well to learn. And banning cyclists in lieu of encouraging responsible driving is the very height of ignorance.
I’m not sure I get your point. A reason why motorways are so safe is that you’re not allowed to bike on them, not allowed to park your car at the side taking a pic-nic and not allowed to do drive in the shoulder even if you have a motorbike. Few of these motorway rules are directly connected to a certain accident rate and they may seem illogical, but together they make the motorwas safe (and boring). So my point was that it doesn’t matter if there actually is space for a bike in the shoulder. If people started using them – especially while it’s against the law – there would eventually be more accidents. Picture it, sunday-shopping families wobbling just meters from the 110 kph cars. But maybe you’re already allowed to bike on motorways where you live – are you? In that case I would have a different view of course.

Originally posted by swekarl

I’m not sure I get your point. A reason why motorways are so safe is that you’re not allowed to bike on them, not allowed to park your car at the side taking a pic-nic and not allowed to do drive in the shoulder even if you have a motorbike. Few of these motorway rules are directly connected to a certain accident rate and they may seem illogical, but together they make the motorwas safe (and boring). So my point was that it doesn’t matter if there actually is space for a bike in the shoulder. If people started using them – especially while it’s against the law – there would eventually be more accidents. Picture it, sunday-shopping families wobbling just meters from the 110 kph cars. But maybe you’re already allowed to bike on motorways where you live – are you? In that case I would have a different view of course.

The thing that makes motorway riding safe is those wide shoulders that put you well out of the lanes of fast traffic, long sliplanes at on and off ramp which provide ample opportunity for cars to exit safely. In fact these are the only risk points, but with an acceptance of cyclists precense there, and some give and take between parties, there's absolutely no reason that they can't be ridden safely. The only thing that makes these points dangerous is motorists tendency to refuse to accept the right of the cyclists to be there, a refusal to slow down slightly to move around a cyclist safely (which is stupid if they're only going to slow down in a few seconds anyway), or just plain bad driving.

Bear in mind that I wouldn't recommend motorway riding for anyone but expereinced cyclists; there is a certain level of skill and nerve required, but once that is attained motorway riding is as safe or safer than some of the urban roads we ride on every day.

Lastly, on the section of the M1 I reffered to earlier (the new 8 lane AU$800 million concrete wasteland) it is legal to ride a bike on it, and it is by all accounts much safer than the twisty, narrow, no-shouldered, so-called alternative route. It has been since last April. Despite no reported injuries, never mind fatalities, the Ignorami are baying to have cyclists banned again as it's 'too dangerous'. Also note that this is a road really only useful for travelling between Brisbane and the Gold Coast, and is not likely to be used by 'sunday-shopping families wobbling just meters from the 110 kph cars'. In this country you don't even get people doing that in the 'burbs.

California Dept. of Transportation's own statistics, based on accident rates and traffic counts, demonstrate that cycling on a freeway shoulder is a remarkably safe activity, but that there are real problems on merges, diverges, ramps, slip lanes, etc., whether on or off the freeway. I support a compromise position -- give us access on the wider, better-maintained shoulders, even if we have to exit and re-enter at each interchange.

Originally posted by John E
California Dept. of Transportation's own statistics, based on accident rates and traffic counts, demonstrate that cycling on a freeway shoulder is a remarkably safe activity, but that there are real problems on merges, diverges, ramps, slip lanes, etc., whether on or off the freeway. I support a compromise position -- give us access on the wider, better-maintained shoulders, even if we have to exit and re-enter at each interchange.

The other possibility is separate bike path exits and entrances at each interchange...

Richard

Originally posted by Richard D

The other possibility is separate bike path exits and entrances at each interchange...


That is why San Diego area cyclists are fighting so hard for interchange underpasses along the new SR-56 freeway. The interchange underpasses along the San Diego River and San Luis Rey River bike paths work quite well.

Originally posted by Richard D
Now its illegal to cycle on the Motorway, even if you used this lovely hard shoulder, yet I can freely cycle along the A2 which has exactly the same speed limit and at absolute best a 2ft shoulder, frequently no shoulder.

Does anybody understand this logic?

Perfectly.

Road minus cyclists = gridlock.

it makes sense that riding on a highway/motorway/freeway (etc) is safer then regular surface street riding, the reason is simply because all the vehicals are traveling in the same direction, there is no stopping (no running red lights). The problem is with merging traffic and onramps/offramps and such. However, there are less accidents on these roads (which deems the road "safer") the accidents that do occur are much more deadly and tragic (due to the higher speeds) So... if a cyclist was to be part of the accident it would be all over :(

However, here in vegas with the new intercity highway they have built a bike trail that follows it almost all the way, stopping at each street inbetween. (sorta like a mini bike highway) very convient for me, but I never see that many people use it anyways...

:confused:

However, here in vegas with the new intercity highway they have built a bike trail that follows it almost all the way, stopping at each street inbetween. (sorta like a mini bike highway) very convient for me, but I never see that many people use it anyways..

They have done the same here. Alongside the new road is a bike path that is separate from the road. It is fantastic.
It even goes under or over other roads just like the freeway, with no intersections at all.
It's very hilly though and there is a stretch that is +10%. So only very keen cyclists use it, which I can't complain about.
The hills keep families from riding along it, which can be good or bad depending on your cycling needs.

CHEERS.

Mark