Recumbent - Prone

Has anyone ever come up with bike frame ridden in the prone position? I only thought of this after watching human powered submarine contestants powering their U-boats laying on their bellys so that they could see forward through clear bubble nose cones.

It's been done, but I don't know if it's been done by anyone on this forum.

i've kinda considered the position (i'm more a weird bike experimenter than actual recumbent rider). i was thinking if not compleatly prone then with the front sprocket well behind the seating position, kinda like those race motorcycles. almost a gravity bike postion, but with pedals.

truthfully for me, i couldn't see how to sit on it comfortbly. seems like it would be hard on the... uh... family jewels? so you'd need a way to have some of the weight be supported by your chest and/or stomach.

actually the chest support occured to me while i was typing this. i may have to think on it again.

i've kinda considered the position (i'm more a weird bike experimenter than actual recumbent rider). i was thinking if not compleatly prone then with the front sprocket well behind the seating position, kinda like those race motorcycles. almost a gravity bike postion, but with pedals.

truthfully for me, i couldn't see how to sit on it comfortbly. seems like it would be hard on the... uh... family jewels? so you'd need a way to have some of the weight be supported by your chest and/or stomach.

actually the chest support occured to me while i was typing this. i may have to think on it again.

Seems to me that the chest support would restrict your ability to breathe.

SP
Bend, OR

For me, the problems would consist of having to be high enough for knee clearance while pedaling, which puts COG up; and either neck or lower back problems depending on whether the body was completely horizontal or somewhat inclined. Arm position also seems somewhat problematic, depending on the steering geometry.

You mean like these?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ihpv.free.fr/myihpv/pdf/prone_bike_render.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ihpv.free.fr/myihpv/pdf/prone-hpv.html&usg=__6ffQu8uy5hwkxlxPEWvP_Tw7igk=&h=770&w=1140&sz=303&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=f1AWlX03JY4wfM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dprone%2Bbike%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dcom.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

http://bp3.blogger.com/_atq6Cg90KPY/SEzzWwFWjmI/AAAAAAAAAMc/aZy8HRttZ7A/s1600-h/DSCN1419.JPG

WalMart will soon be offering one (online only) for $276.:lol:

All three of them make my neck hurt just looking at the pictures. I don't think the real one would be practical outside the track.

Yeah, human bodies by nature seem like they would be much better off in a recumbent position than a prone one. All of your joints are designed to flex ventrally rather than dorsally.

I'm kinda curious as to whether you could make (even just for fun) a recumbent where the pilot was fully reclined and navigated via some sort of mirror system- it seems like you could get all the aero benefits of a prone system but still be able to breathe while riding and use your neck the next day.

You mean like these?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ihpv.free.fr/myihpv/pdf/prone_bike_render.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ihpv.free.fr/myihpv/pdf/prone-hpv.html&usg=__6ffQu8uy5hwkxlxPEWvP_Tw7igk=&h=770&w=1140&sz=303&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=f1AWlX03JY4wfM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dprone%2Bbike%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dcom.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

http://bp3.blogger.com/_atq6Cg90KPY/SEzzWwFWjmI/AAAAAAAAAMc/aZy8HRttZ7A/s1600-h/DSCN1419.JPG

Great photo collections. Thanks. I knew someone had to have done it. Seems many.

Great photo collections. Thanks. I knew someone had to have done it. Seems many.

I take no credit for these. I just remembered running across them when I was first researching going bent. :D

Been done and acknowledged as a vastly inferior platform to bents and df alike.

I recall seeing one on yotube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-akkbNyiXE

Has anyone ever come up with bike frame ridden in the prone position? I only thought of this after watching human powered submarine contestants powering their U-boats laying on their bellys so that they could see forward through clear bubble nose cones.

Read all about 'em:
http://humanpower.ligfiets.net/Human_Power/FullText/23-v7n2-1988.pdf

I'm kinda curious as to whether you could make (even just for fun) a recumbent where the pilot was fully reclined and navigated via some sort of mirror system- it seems like you could get all the aero benefits of a prone system but still be able to breathe while riding and use your neck the next day.

Yeah, even more radical than that... the Eivie II. Rider and builder Damjan Zabrovnik has taken it to 120 kph top speed and 87.5 km over one hour. The cranks are beside the rear wheel, the rider almost lays down facing backwards and there is a mirror above him that allows forward vision.

:)ensen.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2597/3738086318_f97ef796f0_o.jpg

Leading with your head seems like an exceptionally bad idea from a safety standpoint.

Just sayin'.

Leading with your head seems like an exceptionally bad idea from a safety standpoint.

Just sayin'.

That's why he's encased in carbon fiber. There's some videos of his high-speed crashes at http://www.eivie.com/page/components/com_expose/expose.html . Look for Battle Mountain 2006.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=598487
^^^
From the Alt Bikes forum.

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/Z50R/seniordesignI.jpg

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/Z50R/DSCN0165.jpg

What amazes me the most is that all these skilled bike builders don't do enough Web research to find out exactly what is not worth doing. With the HPV archives on the web, I wouldn't spend time and resources building something that has already been proven to have limitations, in this case, the rider will have compromised aerobic capacity.

This kind of thing makes me wonder if recumbents are considered so "toxic" by other bike builders that they cannot be bothered to learn from the mistakes made long long ago by recumbent pioneers. They're loss, of course, but really it's just seems a waste.

:)ensen.

What amazes me the most is that all these skilled bike builders don't do enough Web research to find out exactly what is not worth doing. With the HPV archives on the web, I wouldn't spend time and resources building something that has already been proven to have limitations, in this case, the rider will have compromised aerobic capacity.

This kind of thing makes me wonder if recumbents are considered so "toxic" by other bike builders that they cannot be bothered to learn from the mistakes made long long ago by recumbent pioneers. They're loss, of course, but really it's just seems a waste.

:)ensen.

As a former maker of racing kayaks I think I can answer the reason why various people make the same mistakes: We all think we can tweak something old and make it better. Even if someone has failed before at it. I used to make hulls with foils to get the boat out of the water. Been done to death and does not work well under human power. But I had to try it too. It's fun. And you never know, some person just might invent a better mousetrap. I'd never discourage a bad idea. Besides, the guys who do this kind of thing are endlessly interesting to me. They fight the status quo and that is always good.

I found a webpage that you will probably enjoy. The pic looks like it was long before Al Gore invented the internet.
I also like Jeff Willis' post
http://www.bicycleman.com/history/history.htm
:lol:
Rob

That's why he's encased in carbon fiber. There's some videos of his high-speed crashes at http://www.eivie.com/page/components/com_expose/expose.html . Look for Battle Mountain 2006.

Well then. I suppose that 1) answers my question and 2) makes me very glad I have never crashed ia giant egg going 70mph surrounded by steel tubing, chains, and splintering carbon fiber.

Well then. I suppose that 1) answers my question and 2) makes me very glad I have never crashed ia giant egg going 70mph surrounded by steel tubing, chains, and splintering carbon fiber.

Try 80+:
http://www.ohpv.org/events/albums/bm2003/atspeed/photos/photo_10.html

Typically there's a couple layers of carbon fiber and an inner layer of Kevlar to protect the soft, squishy human from shards of carbon.

("Shards of Carbon"... what a great name for a band!)

As a former maker of racing kayaks I think I can answer the reason why various people make the same mistakes: We all think we can tweak something old and make it better. Even if someone has failed before at it. I used to make hulls with foils to get the boat out of the water. Been done to death and does not work well under human power. But I had to try it too. It's fun. And you never know, some person just might invent a better mousetrap. I'd never discourage a bad idea. Besides, the guys who do this kind of thing are endlessly interesting to me. They fight the status quo and that is always good.

Okay... fair enough.

BTW, did you know about the Shutts? They built a number of HP hydrofoils back in the 90's. Very fast. Up on foil at about 10 knots.

:)ensen.

That guy in the photos may not care if what he built isn't worth doing from an
efficiency standpoint, maybe it was just fun to do. Like making a tallbike.

Okay... fair enough.

BTW, did you know about the Shutts? They built a number of HP hydrofoils back in the 90's. Very fast. Up on foil at about 10 knots.

:)ensen.

I'm aware of most work done with foils in kayaks but have not heard of the Shutts. What I do know is it takes about 8-9 knots to get up on plane and then you "break through" like the sound barrier. It seems to take slightly less effort to stay up on plane as you lose surface drag. But this is a mirage. Soon, very soon, you die. (you die because the reach to the water gets longer and your paddle length is now all wrong - very inefficient) And when you are up in the air steering becomes an issue - you can't steer to any real degree. But you can go like hell for about 200 meters. I've watched Olympic Gold medalist Greg Barton messing with a foil and he could make them work to some degree. But his fastest 1000 meter times were still posted with conventional displacement hulls. Still, they are fun to play with and you can only learn things from the experience.

...the reach to the water gets longer and your paddle length is now all wrong...

Ah, that explains it then. You've made the boat better, but not the power source. In the HPV world, the usual propulsion is by screw. As I understand it, the major achievements in HP boats started with the Flying Fish (Abbott), then Mutiny on the Boundary Layer (Macready), then Decavitator (Drela). Fish had foils and water screw but an upright pedalling position. Mutiny was the first of the pogo foils, regardless of what that Australian company claims. Decavitator was a displacement hull, but had a air screw so it looked more like an airboat. The Steve and Sid Shutt started with kayaks or rowing shells then added foils and a water screw. Water screws are the way to go with a foil. That Hobie Mirage drive has the torque but not the speed. If you still have your kayak, consider a SpinFin drive by Bob Stuart. I had his kayak up to about 9 or 10 knots easy at the 95' Cowichan Bay Pedal Boat Fest.

:)ensen.

Ah, that explains it then. You've made the boat better, but not the power source. In the HPV world, the usual propulsion is by screw. As I understand it, the major achievements in HP boats started with the Flying Fish (Abbott), then Mutiny on the Boundary Layer (Macready), then Decavitator (Drela). Fish had foils and water screw but an upright pedalling position. Mutiny was the first of the pogo foils, regardless of what that Australian company claims. Decavitator was a displacement hull, but had a air screw so it looked more like an airboat. The Steve and Sid Shutt started with kayaks or rowing shells then added foils and a water screw. Water screws are the way to go with a foil. That Hobie Mirage drive has the torque but not the speed. If you still have your kayak, consider a SpinFin drive by Bob Stuart. I had his kayak up to about 9 or 10 knots easy at the 95' Cowichan Bay Pedal Boat Fest.

:)ensen.

Sounds like you know more about this stuff than me. I only worked with a wing paddle. Going to a screw was not the direction I took. Still, all of this human powered stuff is fun. Thanks for the info.

You mean like these?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ihpv.free.fr/myihpv/pdf/prone_bike_render.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ihpv.free.fr/myihpv/pdf/prone-hpv.html&usg=__6ffQu8uy5hwkxlxPEWvP_Tw7igk=&h=770&w=1140&sz=303&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=f1AWlX03JY4wfM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dprone%2Bbike%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dcom.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

http://bp3.blogger.com/_atq6Cg90KPY/SEzzWwFWjmI/AAAAAAAAAMc/aZy8HRttZ7A/s1600-h/DSCN1419.JPG

:lol:

For me, the problems would consist of having to be high enough for knee clearance while pedaling, which puts COG up; and either neck or lower back problems depending on whether the body was completely horizontal or somewhat inclined. Arm position also seems somewhat problematic, depending on the steering geometry.

While the crawl position is tantalizing. I think that we will have to re-evolve to have our spines enter the back of our skulls to make it truly feasible. Oh the curse of bipedalism. ;)