Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Trek 610

Edit: I've bought the bike and it's now waiting for me at home!
here's a link to a prior listing if anyone is curious:
http://slo.craigslist.org/bik/1440640877.html

From what I've read, this seems like it's a pretty reasonable value. The guy says that the freewheel has worn cogs and should probably be replaced. He also says he has an extra wheelset without tires but with a good freewheel. I've been doing a bit of reading and it seems as if the original 610 freewheel was the Maillard 700 helicomatic. From what I can tell, this seems to be more difficult to remove than other freewheels.

So $200 seems pretty reasonable so long as the freewheel business doesn't become a nightmare. What do you think?

I'm not one of the experienced people that haunt these threads, but in my humble opinion that a really nice bike with Shimano 600 components that someone has put a Campy wheelset on. Campy and Shimano do play together well sometimes, but I think this is one area that they may not. Hence, the "slipping" problem. Again; I'm no expert, but I think there is a compatibility problem with that cassette. That is a very big frame, I'd say for someone 6'2" or better more. If it was my size, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and put another wheelset on it.

I'm not one of the experienced people that haunt these threads, but in my humble opinion that a really nice bike with Shimano 600 components that someone has put a Campy wheelset on. Campy and Shimano do play together well sometimes, but I think this is one area that they may not. Hence, the "slipping" problem. Again; I'm no expert, but I think there is a compatibility problem with that cassette. That is a very big frame, I'd say for someone 6'2" or better more. If it was my size, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and put another wheelset on it.

Yeah I'm 6'5" so this is a good find for me.

Edit: he says the extra wheelset is the original Maillard and I can have one or the other. Should I just go with the original and then try to swap out the freewheel?

Could be an '87 ,7speed; 85-6, 6sp. I understand what was said concerning the potentialy tricky freewheel. I won't (over) explain further, besides, your getting free extras. It's enough to know that all can be sorted-out. An LBS will do so. N/P
The freewheel won't be a nightmare as I've only indicated. That bike is just plain worth it. The listed features and the bike possess virtues for sure. 600 is good stuff.
Bad wheels with good Campy Record hubs can win over a hundred in e-bay, no questions asked. The only reason that the bike is as "reasonable" as it is, is because it's a large frame, you'd better be sure it'll fit. A 54,56 or 58 would be gone by now.
200 = pretty reasonable, cheap is more like it. Treks do better than average.
Don't fret over the notion of payin' a few bucks to have a shop fix it.

I simply can't fathom why SO many members are so incredibly focuses on NOT having a mech. fix a bike. It's different for a newbie with comparing a $50 special against another $100 special but in a serious bike catagory, I just don't get it.

Yeah I'm 6'5" so this is a good find for me.

Edit: he says the extra wheelset is the original Maillard and I can have one or the other. Should I just go with the original and then try to swap out the freewheel?

6'5". I think you have found your new bike! I'm not familiar with Maillard, (it's that old school stuff) but I just don't think that this bike came with either wheelset originally. I counted 5 cogs on that freewheel, unless I missed one. This is a Shimano 600 6207 group, which is a 6spd group as far as I know. I have the same thing on an 85 Bianchi Limited. You will get more authoritative responses soon, but if your worried about this bike being bought soon, your size has probably narrowed down the competition. $200 for this bike on the West coast is a really good deal. However, as the previous post suggests, bank some money to take it to a bike shop to get the shifting straightened out.

Thanks for the responses, guys!

to old and new -- the seller only wants to part with one of the wheelsets: campy or original. Would you recommend just sticking with the campy because of its value?

And to rothenfield -- I had to count it twice, but I'm pretty sure it actually has six cogs

Edit: somehow completely forgot to mention this, but I'm in Berkeley right now, not SLO, so I won't be able to take a look at the bike in person until probably thanksgiving. I was planning on having my brother check it out for me, report back, and buy it if everything checked out.

Thanks for the responses, guys!

to old and new -- the seller only wants to part with one of the wheelsets: campy or original. Would you recommend just sticking with the campy because of its value?

And to rothenfield -- I had to count it twice, but I'm pretty sure it actually has six cogs

Edit: somehow completely forgot to mention this, but I'm in Berkeley right now, not SLO, so I won't be able to take a look at the bike in person until probably thanksgiving. I was planning on having my brother check it out for me, report back, and buy it if everything checked out.
+1 It would be gone already if it were in a more common size.

Frameset is probably worth close to his asking price.

I would take the Campy stuff, then look for a donor set of wheels to swap out.

So here's the deal....

The wheels pictured on the bike have Campagnolo Record hubs with a screw on Suntour freewheel that skips. Any 5, 6 or 7 speed freewheel can replace the 'skipping' Suntour unit with NO issues. A new chain will be needed.

There are NO Shimano/Campy compatibilty issues with the bike as pictured. It has fricition DT levers which are compatible with all (well 99%) rear derailleurs.

The only wildcard is the wheel not pictured with the Helicomatic hub. If its worn out the best/most economical option is to swap out the hub to something different. you can reuse the old rim and spokes.

I would take the Campy wheelset. ZERO advantage to getting the Maillard. Trek often cheaped out on the wheels in this era, and the Campy is an upgrade.

(Owner of an '83 600 and previous owner of '84 760, both w/upgraded wheelsets)

Miamijim and Bob Barker are spot on. No compatibility issues with a friction freewheel (it's not a cassette). You may have to replace both the chain and the freewheel but that's not a big deal. Definitely take the Campy wheelset over the other.

Nice grab for 200 with all shimano 600 and new brakes/hoods setup. looks very clean, I have a very similar Schwinn LeTour in an almost identicle color and bar tape, but I have no hoods and the parts are all original aside from the steel seat that I replaced with a WTB Super V.

The Campy wheelset was not original to the bike... This bike is an 84 and came with Atom Hubs.

Here is a link to the Trek sales brochure for this bike (look at the last 2 pages)
http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/84Trek2Sport.pdf

To the original question, $200 is a fair price depending on the market, but you could probably do better than that given the time of the year and the work required. No index shifting in this bike, btw, if that matters

Is there anything else I should tell my brother to keep an eye out for when he's looking at the bike?

Is there anything else I should tell my brother to keep an eye out for when he's looking at the bike?

Just the usual: frame damage, rust, etc. Based on the ad I would guess the seller is a straight shooter so I doubt you'll have any trouble. Also notice that the ad said 'asking 200'. In other words, the seller probably expects you to make an offer below his asking price. Start at $170 and see what happens. If the seller says he would sell it for less with the other wheels I'd pay the $200 to get the Campy set.

since the bike doesn't index I would take the Campi wheels. put a new 13-23 freewheel and chain on it and enjoy! is there and 'up' charge for both wheels?

I have a slightly older 710 and it's great so I think you will really like this one. $200 is very fair looking at the pictures. I'm surprised it's not sold already.

since the bike doesn't index I would take the Campi wheels. put a new 13-23 freewheel and chain on it and enjoy! is there and 'up' charge for both wheels?

He'd need to spread the frame to do that. My '87 410T has a 126mm spacing and I am sure that this is the case with this 610. 531 should spread ok, but spreading a frame is a tricky process... (and costly if you need it done) plus it requires specialized tools to check for alignment.

To the original question, $200 is a fair price depending on the market, but you could probably do better than that given the time of the year and the work required. No index shifting in this bike, btw, if that matters

+1 for it depending on the market. Where I live this bike wouldn't go for any lower than $300.

I got an 83 614 that had a bad 6 speed freewheel. I bought a new IRC 7 speed from Harris for $58 with shipping and a new Z chain for $15. Best shifting bike I've ever been on, mine's a friction shifter, BTW.
I didn't need to spread it but it's worth measuring twice.
Is this bike 531?

Is this bike 531?

Yes. Main tubes and the fork and stays.

Is this bike 531?


Yes. Main tubes and the fork and stays.

Actually, the 6xx series from early on are 3 main tubes butted 531 only. The forks and stays, depending on the year, are hi10 Ishiwata, Tange Mangalloy, probably others as well. In 1984 Trek came up with their own special tubeset:

531cs = 531 club sport = 531 butted main tubes only, with unspecified (suspected to be 501) Reynolds chro-mo forks and stays

Actually, the 6xx series from early on are 3 main tubes butted 531 only. The forks and stays, depending on the year, are hi10 Ishiwata, Tange Mangalloy, probably others as well. In 1984 Trek came up with their own special tubeset:

531cs = 531 club sport = 531 butted main tubes only, with unspecified (suspected to be 501) Reynolds chro-mo forks and stays

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/4062044803_94d00acf85.jpg
Courtesy of vintage-trek.com 1984 catalog.

Actually, the 6xx series from early on are 3 main tubes butted 531 only. The forks and stays, depending on the year, are hi10 Ishiwata, Tange Mangalloy, probably others as well. In 1984 Trek came up with their own special tubeset:

531cs = 531 club sport = 531 butted main tubes only, with unspecified (suspected to be 501) Reynolds chro-mo forks and stays
No, they were all 531. The rear triangles and forks were brazed in Japan using 531 tubing, but mated to frames and assembled in Waterloo.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2509/4061942797_7542e243a3.jpg
Courtesy of vintage-trek.com 1984 catalog.

The link to the full catalog is a few posts up. The specs are in the last page. Clearly stated: Stays and forks: 531 cs...

Well my brother called earlier tonight. He ended up really liking the bike, said it was in excellent condition. So he got for the full $200, which I feel fine about. The seller originally posted his ad for $270, then dropped it to $250, then to $200. Anyway, it's now waiting at home until I get back for Thanksgiving. Now all I have to do is get rid of my Schwinn Le Tour II holdover.

The link to the full catalog is a few posts up. The specs are in the last page. Clearly stated: Stays and forks: 531 cs...

And as clearly stated:

Read the description #30 of 531cs - forks and stays are a special cro-moly, and 531 is mang-moly, so the forks and stays are NOT 531

Even the sticker says "531 butted frame tubes", and below says "Reynolds forks and stays". Compare that wording to a full 531 frame, which will state "531 fork blades, stays, and butted frame tubes". There's a reason it's different.

The Campy wheelset was not original to the bike... This bike is an 84 and came with Atom Hubs.

Here is a link to the Trek sales brochure for this bike (look at the last 2 pages)
http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/84Trek2Sport.pdf

To the original question, $200 is a fair price depending on the market, but you could probably do better than that given the time of the year and the work required. No index shifting in this bike, btw, if that matters

I bought one of these new in 1984 and still have it. The group was Shimano 600 6207, except for the wheels and headset (Stronglight B10). The wheels were not Atom, but Maillard hubs, galvanized or zinc plated spokes, and Matrix clincher rims. The Maillard Helicomatic freewheel only fits the Maillard hub, and there are no other options. Mine worked terribly after it was 4 months old. Now I use wheels with either Campy Record hubs and tubulars, or Shimano 600 hubs and clinchers. Both are 700c, which the original brakes will accommodate. if you need to get a different freewheel you need to use a different wheel. If Campy's are available that would be a great choice. There is no issue in this case with using Shimano with Campy or any other component type.

Modern compatibility matters based on indexed shifting are completely irrelevant here. I've used freewheels from Regina, Shimano, Sachs, SunTour, and Sunrace on this bike, and it was fine.

For bikes of this vintage there is no such thing as a Campagnolo, Maillard, or Shimano wheel. If the rim is Mavic and the hub is Campy, is it a Mavic wheel or a Campy? It's neither.

Mine now has the Shimano/Mavic wheels, a Suntour freewheel, Huret derailleurs, Chorus crankset and headset, Shimano brakes and pedals, and a Campy seatpost. This frame is good enough for anything you want to put on it.

This is a great bike and worth the $200. I assume you bought it since the listing is down.

He'd need to spread the frame to do that. My '87 410T has a 126mm spacing and I am sure that this is the case with this 610. 531 should spread ok, but spreading a frame is a tricky process... (and costly if you need it done) plus it requires specialized tools to check for alignment.

Wrong. This original frame is 126, and can be used with any 126 hub that is spaced as it was when new, with a 6-speed or 7-speed. It's really too much room for a 5-speed. The only reason to consider spreading this frame is if you want to go with 8 or more speeds.

Actually, the 6xx series from early on are 3 main tubes butted 531 only. The forks and stays, depending on the year, are hi10 Ishiwata, Tange Mangalloy, probably others as well. In 1984 Trek came up with their own special tubeset:

531cs = 531 club sport = 531 butted main tubes only, with unspecified (suspected to be 501) Reynolds chro-mo forks and stays

if you read through all the stickers and the catalogs, it's ultimately ambiguous what the forks and stays are made of. Trek also messed up the geometry specs (seattube length definition) for the 1984 catalog. The frameset is somewhat heavier than a full 531 db frame. More like a Columbus Tretubi (not Aelle). What is clear is that the main tubes are the same as the main tubes in the 531C set, based on the tube diameters.

The frame is much better quality than say, a Super course. Same distribution of materials, except teh early SCs had straight guage 531 rather than db. Plus the Treks have great lugwork and brazing, and are made with forged ends and dropouts.

I know my 1984 660, 531cs is one helluva ride. I thought about selling it (for a nanosecond) since it's 1 size too small for me. I decided I can live with a lot of seat post showing.

I bought one of these new in 1984 and still have it. The group was Shimano 600 6207, except for the wheels and headset (Stronglight B10). The wheels were not Atom, but Maillard hubs, galvanized or zinc plated spokes, and Matrix clincher rims. The Maillard Helicomatic freewheel only fits the Maillard hub, and there are no other options. Mine worked terribly after it was 4 months old. Now I use wheels with either Campy Record hubs and tubulars, or Shimano 600 hubs and clinchers. Both are 700c, which the original brakes will accommodate. if you need to get a different freewheel you need to use a different wheel. If Campy's are available that would be a great choice. There is no issue in this case with using Shimano with Campy or any other component type.

Modern compatibility matters based on indexed shifting are completely irrelevant here. I've used freewheels from Regina, Shimano, Sachs, SunTour, and Sunrace on this bike, and it was fine.

For bikes of this vintage there is no such thing as a Campagnolo, Maillard, or Shimano wheel. If the rim is Mavic and the hub is Campy, is it a Mavic wheel or a Campy? It's neither.

Mine now has the Shimano/Mavic wheels, a Suntour freewheel, Huret derailleurs, Chorus crankset and headset, Shimano brakes and pedals, and a Campy seatpost. This frame is good enough for anything you want to put on it.

This is a great bike and worth the $200. I assume you bought it since the listing is down.

Yeah I bought it.

If the Maillard helicomatic freewheels are incompatible with other hubs, I assume that the freewheel he has on there is not original, as he specified that the bike has "Campagnolo Record Hubs laced to Wolber rims." He also included a picture of the front campy record hub, so I know at least that is legit.

Sheldon Brown seems to recommend the shimano hyperglide freewheels. Would either a 6 or 7 speed hyperglide be a good option?