self-defense methods...what do you suggest?

[psycholist]

I don't believe in riding scared, but I also believe bad things can/will happen to anyone. I can handle Joe Motorist and those hateful little yappy dogs:D , but I am thinking about bigger problems. Lately I have been coming across more and more signs of meth labs and such doings during my day/night rides and I wonder just what the reaction would be if I did stumble across some of these personalities unannounced. Besides these folks, there have been several instances where a weapon of some sort sure would have been a reassurance. I don't mean I want to start packing heat on my rides, what are some other options?
have done the pepper spray thingy...bad things can happen with that stuff if it's real windy and lordy, lordy, don't get it on your gloves.

[LittleBigMan]

So far, my self-defense approach is less weapon-oriented and more strategy-oriented.

If you look dangerous, that's dangerous. If you look innocent, or homeless :p you will not attract violence. Also, avoid dangerous places.

Speed, stealth, and smarts are my only defense.

I read about a cyclist who started to carry a sidearm because a pickup full of rednecks kept hassling him on the road. One fateful day, the reds came again and he drew his weapon.

They had more firepower. fortunately, he survived.

My opinion.

Peace :)

[JonR]

I've always assumed that if I carried a weapon one of two things would happen eventually: (1) I'd get arrested for carrying it; or (2) it would get taken away from me by an assailant and used against me.

So I carry a cell phone. I also try to keep my head up and look alert all the time.

[mike]

Yup, good advice from Pete and JonR.

I teach self-defence and tell my students that they should only use weapons that they wouldn't mind having used against themselves. Usually, the attacker gets his hands on the weapon of the amature user.

Pepper spray is virtually useless. I have ladies standing all the way across a big room with their finger on the water-filled aerosol spray can - held at their side. They know I will mock attack them. Their instruction is to spray me in the face before I take them down.

In EVERY case, they never spray me anywhere near the face. I have been surprised by these results.

Your best and perhaps only defense is to stay out of trouble and avoid danger.

[D*Alex]

I carry a small sprayer of pepper spray, clipped to the wedge pack under my seat. I actually had to use it once on a loose dog (stopped him!), and just the threat of using it kept my drug-addled redneck neighbor from assaulting me once (I had him arrested, anyway).
I really can't see any other weapon being as effective, or as easy to use. A large stick is diffucult to carry on a bike, and only a moron would carry a loaded gun while cycling.

[John E]

Originally posted by LittleBigMan
If you look dangerous, that's dangerous. If you look innocent, or homeless you will not attract violence. Also, avoid dangerous places.

Speed, stealth, and smarts are my only defense.

My strategy is similar. When walking or cycling, if you look alert, self-confident, athletic, but not wealthy, they will choose a slower-moving, higher-payoff target.

I never used to worry about getting money at ATMs, but my boss was pistol-whipped at one four years ago in Silicon Valley, and three of my coworkers (including two Canadian citizens) were held up at gunpoint last year at an ATM in Calgary. I now generally use an ATM inside a large supermarket.

[MadCat]

I have a friend who wouldn't ride in the city without his folding baton. I think he stopped over time when he became weight conscious.
I have faith in my Kryptonite U-Lock. The worst area I ride though is the bar strip when it lets out at 230am. My lock makes me feel good. I've thought about slapping a steel cable onto it to be just that much more MadMax when tearing around the city. That kind of stuff is only a weapon until it's used as such.
Pepper spray went back to the land of completely illegal and not half illegal in Canada. No more dog/bear spray to ward off muggers. People still carry it though. A law is only as tough as it is enforced.

[psycholist]

the sad thing about all this is that I live completely out in the country---I mean literally the stix. My nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile in either direction, and on a typical day I pass thru two villages of 300 people each and after those I only have a house or barn every 1-3 miles. It used to be that the worry of getting assaulted or worse was only something city folks had to deal with, but that is changing. In the last year I have had several people, some I knew some I didn't, stop me and sincerely suggest that I get a weapon or something. At first it kinda bugged me...I am a six foot female who knows how to ride smart and look out for herself and I figured they were only thinking gender weakness. But then I got the same thing from a few close friends and it made me think.
I agree that a gun is no option...things are not so bad that we need to be sending a Wild West kinda message! So far the worst things that I have to worry about are fast dogs with issues and falling off bridges(see my post under funniest stories in the Lounge). I just hope it stays that way.
I think a good heavy club might be an option, and weight isn't an issue. Fastening it to the is a question, tho.

[JonR]

This is a real problem, and I wish I had some quick solution. The country's the locus of choice for meth labs, because they give away their presence very readily by the smell of cooking meth. (It's just as well, because they also blow up with depressing frequency.)

I live in what is considered to be the meth capital of the USA, Jackson County, Missouri (though the eastern part is the real heartland of criminality). Luckily I also live in the city, so I don't stumble across stuff like that. I think they were doing it in this apartment building, years ago, but it stopped....

Other than just be sure you can ride like hell, I really don't know what to suggest. My own t'ai chi teacher, who was familiar with all the martial arts, said the best thing to do when confronted, if you can, is RUN.

[MichaelW]

I keep my D lock handy on top of the luggage rack under a bungee. Legal and easy to hand. There may be a temptation to wave it around in a threatening manner, but I prefer swift and unexpected action. I know from experience how effective that is against me.

Most of the low life I meet are opportunist muggers, and they need time to check out their prey and act. Bikes are just too quick for them, so I feel safe riding through areas I would never walk through. It pays to ride a reliable bike with good tough tyres.

In London recently there are muggers who target cyclists, and rip off pannier bags. Maybe you should avoid riding too regularly through bad neighbourhoods; vary the time and route, like any good security driver would.

If you are faced with a gun-toting druggy then I would suggest that you are in deep doodoo. Best to avoid getting into that situation. A fiream is less likely to help you than you imagine, but a firearm familiarisation course may be useful, to know exactly what they can and can't do, and what the practical range of various classes of weapons are. On a bike you can only carry a small firearm, and you need to be very skilled to use it effectively.

Your best defense is observation, speed, and distance.

[JonR]

Probably the best response is just to sit home and stay on Bike Forums and never do anything else. That way you don't get mugged and your "friends" don't call you names when you quit Bike Forums because you are spending all your life on it.

[Oscar]

I had an opprotunist go after me while I was unlocking my bike. He flashed a butterfly knife at my face and wanted my wallet. I swung my U lock into his arm and he bent over defensively. Then kicked him hard in the butt, then stomped on his knee when he was down. (The stomp was gratuitous and, believe it or not, I feel a little guilty about it.)

It would have been cool to have gotten his knife, but he took it with him.

[LittleBigMan]

Originally posted by JonR
Probably the best response is just to sit home and stay on Bike Forums and never do anything else. That way you don't get mugged and your "friends" don't call you names when you quit Bike Forums because you are spending all your life on it.
I was mugged on my bike! Got to spend day in emergency. Just remember this: if a pedestrian tries to block you around face level with a straight arm, don't hold up one arm to block it, it's like catching your handlebar on a fencepost. Duck, stop, or anything but that.

Now, I have called Chris L. some names...and he deserves every one of them! :D What really would have tweeked his gizzard would have been his leaving, and nobody said anything at all.

;)

[Merriwether]

Mike writes:

"I teach self-defence and tell my students that they should only use weapons that they wouldn't mind having used against themselves. Usually, the attacker gets his hands on the weapon of the amature user."

Psychlist writes:

I agree that a gun is no option...things are not so bad that we need to be sending a Wild West kinda message!

For an alternative point of view, I don't agree with either of you. A gun is a reasonable option for a self-defense weapon. It provides a devastating attack with little effective defense, and everyone knows this so it's a powerful deterrent.

It's actually false, too, that amateur users "usually" get their weapon taken away from them. At least as far as guns go, having one's gun used against one by a crook happens only somewhere around 1% of the time, according to the USDJ crime victimization survey-- and a large share of these cases are burglars arming themselves with guns found in the house they're robbing.

(After all, who leaves a gun outside of his window at night, so as to provide a burglar with a gun that you can "take away and use against him"? The usual procedure is to keep the gun inside with you, sensibly enough.)

At any rate, according to the same USDJ information, using a gun is the _safest_ way to respond to a violent personal crime. You're twice as likely to avoid injury or death than with the second safest method-- passive cooperation.

Lots of people cycle and jog with guns where it's legal. And, yes, there are the stories that go the other way, stories in which joggers or cyclist thwarted armed robberies by drawing a piece instead of a wallet.

Having said all this, though, I should say that ultimately I agree with the dominant theme in the replies. Ultimately, information about guns or any other weapon is not that important. This is not only because you live in Illinois, where only politicians can use guns to protect their lives. It's because the most important matter is avoiding trouble to begin with.

If there's one principle more important than any other when it comes to self-defense, especially on a bicycle, it's this: they can't attack you if you're not there.

If you know where meth labs are, don't ride near there. Stay away from bad areas, bad times, and bad people. If you're riding down a narrow street and you see a group of nasty looking folks that make you nervous, just turn around and go the other way. Don't worry about appearing "afraid"-- what difference is that going to make as you ride away out of harm's way?

In short, be cautious, pay attention, and stay away from situations that even appear risky. Always keep your eyes open. What will you do if someone steps off a sidewalk and tries to stop you? Where will you go? Will you have time to stop and turn around? Etc.

If you're worried about a fight, you'll have to take a self-defense class, buy a book or two, or rent a video or something to give yourself even a reasonably usable amount of information or skills.

But as far as easily carried non-gun bike weapons go:

(1) pepper spray-- very nasty as you'll know if you've ever been sprayed,

(2) stun guns-- a last ditch weapon that has nonetheless proved itself useful in my experience,

(3) locks,

(4) spare bits, like a straight handlebar or a frame pump. I think a handlebar is a better weapon, myself, and it's a legally defensible alternative to a baton in those areas in which batons are illegal. You're just carrying a spare because you've had problems with your handlebar, after all.

But, again, the most important thing is to stay away from the risks if you can do so at all.

Best,

[Gus Riley]

Originally posted by Merriwether
........If you know where meth labs are, don't ride near there.....

How in the world are we supposed to "know" where the meth labs are? Do they put a sign on their mailbox or up on their front door? :confused:

[mike]

Originally posted by Merriwether

At any rate, according to the same USDJ information, using a gun is the _safest_ way to respond to a violent personal crime. You're twice as likely to avoid injury or death than with the second safest method-- passive cooperation.



Merriwether:

Your statement is NOT correct. You are not safe carrying a gun. Yes, guns can be effective, if you have it in your hand with the safety off and the barrel pointing at your attacker.

Try this experiment: Fill a squirt gun with food color + water and put it in your purse. Have a friend stand, say 50 feet away from you. That is about five parking spaces away. Have him/her charge you in an attacking way. See if you can get your squirt-gun which has no safety lock, and squirt him.

Save yourself the effort and take it from me - you can't do it.

Even if you have the gun in your hand at your side and you know he is coming at you, chances are you'll never hit him with a single shot.

Now imagine that your attacker is hiding and waiting for you. He attacks you completely by surprise at close range (which is most likely). What are your chances now? If you were relying on your gun, where was it? In your purse which your attacker now has?

Is your gun in your boot which is now under your attacker's knee?

I am not anti-gun, but it does concern me that people with guns have a false sense of security which can lead them into trouble.

If you are really interested in self-defense, take empty-hand self-defense courses from a trained instructor. You will learn to be aware of your surroundings. You will learn your own strengths and limitations againsts an attacker. Hopefully, you will learn how to quickly and effectively defend yourself from a position you are most likely to face - empty handed and surprised against an aggressive attacker.

Sure, everybody can recite stories about black-belt martial artists who get their butts kicked on the street, but empty hand self-defense training is still the best way to prepare yourself for that kind of situation.

[Bigtime]

Originally posted by mike

Even if you have the gun in your hand at your side and you know he is coming at you, chances are you'll never hit him with a single shot.


I beg to differ with you Mike, not sure where you are getting this from but I think it's incorrect. If you do miss, almost all handguns have the capacity to fire multiple shots;)
Let me make a couple of ponts here:

1)Guns are an excellent choice in my view. Like Mike said, there is no way that you are going to be able to get to it in time if someone jumps you, but there are ways around that. But since Psychlist said it is not an option for her, let's move on.

2)I have seen pepper spray that is sold as a foam type application that seems to be very effective. I saw a training video once where someone was sprayed in a 15 mph wind and they still managed to score a significant facial hit. Not only does it contain OC spray, it contains a dye that would make ID of the bad guy quite easy if need be.

3)Cell phones are an excellent idea but are used more for an "after the fact" type of thing and will not help you when someone confronts you.

I have to say it looks like your options are quite limited. Also sounds like you can't/won't avoid these increasingly dangerous areas. If someone confronts you, play it cool. I would keep a couple bucks in my pocket just in case, give them the money and ride away if you can. This will also look better in court and will show that you made an effort to avoid trouble. I would look into either the foam spray or the asp, a collapsable baton that can be quite effective if use correctly (many police officers carry them).
Good luck out there:D
-BT

[bentrox!]

Originally posted by MichaelW
I keep my D lock handy on top of the luggage... I prefer swift and unexpected action. I know from experience how effective that is against me.

Most of the low life I meet are opportunist muggers...

Jeez, Mike, you make it sound l like you troll for muggers! Reminds me of the Charles Bronson movie "Death Wish"!

Eddie

[psycholist]

Sorry, Merriwether, but there are no "bad" parts of town where I do my riding. In fact, there is hardly even a "town" at all unless a few burgs of -400 could be considered metropolitan to some of you. The meth chefs I have to deal with are the ones that are packing their kitchen in the trunk of a car and parking down a side road, behind old oil wells, etc., even during the day. This is not like a city block where you know which houses to avoid...I could come across this type of set-up just about anywhere in the country. And there's more to be wary of than just the junkies anymore.
Getting out and away from people and traffic and town is exactly what I love and I wouldn't trade it for anything...but being so alone and isolated these days has certain risks besides just mechanical break-downs, and I'd like to be prepared.
I guess being female also figures in.

[mike]

Originally posted by Bigtime


I beg to differ with you Mike, not sure where you are getting this from but I think it's incorrect. If you do miss, almost all handguns have the capacity to fire multiple shots;)
:D
-BT

Wow, what an exciting thread this has become.

Anyway, Bigtime (like your avatar!). I agree that a gun or even pepper spray is an effective weapon once you have a bead on your opponent/target. You are correct; if you miss, you can fire again.

The problem is having the gun ready and aimed before an attacker gets to you. Try the experiment I described above and you will know what I am talking about. Compound the situation where the attacker takes you by surprise at close range. It is virtually impossible to shoot the target.

Let's compound the difficulty even more - most people do not carry their guns in their hands. The gun is in their purse or pocket or glove compartment. It is virtually impossible to get the weapon out and ready fast enough to prevent an attack.

Worse yet, many people simply do not have the guts to shoot another human being even when threatened. It takes a lot of guts and lack of compassion to aim a gun at someone and pull the trigger or stab another human being with a knife. Hesitation on the part of the defender is all it takes to be turned into a victim. Women - so compassionate - are particularly vulnerable to this. Have you ever seen women fight competitively? Many times, if they slug their opponent too hard, they apologize to each other. I have seen this in martial arts tournaments. Can we expect this kind of person to rapidly decide to pull a trigger knowing that they will probably cause death?

An even less effective weapon is pepper spray. Assuming you CAN get it out and aimed fast enough, the target is so specific (eyes or face), that it is virtually impossible to hit under real-life circumstances. Did you ever see cops use pepper spray? It usually takes two cops to hold the (human) target, and one to spray the guy in the face at very close range. Usually, the two holders get some pepper spray on themselves as well.

I believe in the right for citizens to bear arms and I wish that guns or pepper spray were effective enough to protect my loved ones. However, after doing a lot of research and experimentation, I am convinced that these weapons are not effective forms of self-defense. Even worse, they give people a false sense of security and self-confidence which often leads to trouble.

[Feldman]

Gee, in my town it's easy to tell where the meth labs are--just look for the combination of a new Harley and an old US built pickup truck in the driveway!

[Bigtime]

Hello again Mike,

You just knew I couldn't let this one go, didn't you?;)

Well, here again I have to disagree with you. You are talking about ordinary run of the mill pepper spray. The stuff I am talking about is a foam similar to shaving cream. How do you know it does not work if you haven't even tried it?

If guns are not capable of protecting you, then why do 99.5% of police departments issue them to their troops? Why do bike cops carry them? Why do millions of people keep them in their homes/on their person? Because they are ineffective?

Let me say this: Carrying a gun in your purse, fanny pack or backpack is SLOW. Not to mention that is the first place a bad guy is gonna look if he happens to knock you out/take the bag away. You are sacrificing speed for convenience. That's why I carry on my body, I can get to it super quick if I need to. Let me also say that you are already at a disadvantage being on a bike. Your hands are steering the bike, and your legs are on the pedals (hopefully:)) If someone jumps from out of the bushes I am in trouble. In that situation you are forced into a hand to hand fight, hopefully one that you can win.

I am not saying that a gun is the perfect self defense weapon. Certainly it has it's limitations (namely it being used against you). But it is a tool and like anything else it can be quite effective if you are trained properly in retention techniques and proper use. A gun is a great equalizer. A 100lb woman can take down a 250 lb man quite easily. Now wether the woman is capable of killing someone, I don't think anyone really knows until they are put into that situation. But have you ever seen a woman after someone attacks her kids? Look out!!

I can site numerous cases where just the mere presence of a gun stopped a burglary, or a murder, or a rape. If you don't think guns are effective at self defense that's ok with me but the evidence I see and the stats I read suggest otherwise.

We could go back and forth on this all day, but I would rather discuss more fun things like cycling in general. Cool?:beer:
-BT

[mike]

O.K, Bigtime, I think we have danced with this subject enough. It was fun.

If you like guns and bikes, have you ever seen some of the bicycles that were designed for WWI and WWII?

There were neat folding bikes and bikes with guns built into the top tubes.

As practical as bicycles seem to be, apparently, they were not practical for warfare. Most bicycle brigades met with disaster. I remember reading comments of a German soldier who said that shooting soldiers on bicycles was like picking grapes in summer.

[Merriwether]

Mike writes:

"Your statement is NOT correct. You are not safe carrying a gun. Yes, guns can be effective, if you have it in your hand with the safety off and the barrel pointing at your attacker.

Try this experiment: Fill a squirt gun with food color + water and put it in your purse. Have a friend stand, say 50 feet away from you. That is about five parking spaces away. Have him/her charge you in an attacking way. See if you can get your squirt-gun which has no safety lock, and squirt him. "

I claimed that guns were the safest means to resist a violent crime attempt. This is true. You needn't take my word for it. The U.S. Bureau of Justice, the recordkeeping arm of the D.O.J., tells us so in its criminal victims' surveys. A study I have access to here just tallies the years from 1979-1985. There's nothing special about these years. Other years are similar.

Here are the B.O.J's own figures:

Against assault:

When a gun was used defensively, the victim was injured 12% of the time, and attacked 23% of the time. These are the best outcomes of any option explored in the survey.

When a victim resisted non-violently, including trying to flee, or made no defensive attempts at all, the victim was injured about 27% of the time and attacked about 39% of the time. These are the next best outcomes of any explored.

Against robbery the figures are similar, with gun use coming out about twice as safe as any other method.

Guns are safest, by the way, even when a criminal is also using a gun. This may seem surprising, but here again I'm just reporting the survey results.

These results can't be all that shocking, really. After all, the first thing done when it comes to matters that are very important to protect, like politicians, banks, or amored cars, is to arm the guards.

There's not much ground to challenge these results on the basis of self-defense experiments. I too have had extensive self-defense training, including training with firearms, so I'm familiar with the difficulty in presenting and firing a weapon against an onrushing attacker. But what these well-known and disturbing facts in conjunction with the data above tell us is that in real life a victim will have more warning of an attack than the attacker's charge against him. He'll have time to gain access to a gun. There'd be no other way for resistance with a gun to be so effective. In many (but not all, of course) actual cases, the first warning people have of attack is to be threatened, explicitly or otherwise. Many people are able to gain access to a gun after being threatened. They may seem to be going for a wallet, they may run and gain a precious second or two, or they may draw the gun without being noticed.

And when it comes to actual street crimes, there are often warning signs before a confrontation visible even to inexperienced people, to allow one to make covert preparations. You'll notice someone casing you, someone will approach you with an innocuous request (what is sometimes called "the interview"), or you'll be confronted with someone who just doesn't belong where he is (like someone standing in an empty parking lot in the cold.)

Of course guns are imperfect, but they're certainly a reasonable choice for self-defense. And whatever you can do _without_ a gun, like running, calling for help, using pepper spray, etc., you can do with one.

I wouldn't carry a gun without a serious commitment to learning how to use it properly, however, or without some serious thought toward and training in self-defense of other kinds. But it's a serious defensive option, and it's just not true that a gun cannot increase your safety.

But, anyway, as I've said, guns aren't a proper substitute for just plain old caution and evasion. And despite our digression in the subject, they're not nearly the most important thing when it comes to personal defense on a bicycle.

Psycholist writes:

Sorry, Merriwether, but there are no "bad" parts of town where I do my riding. In fact, there is hardly even a "town" at all unless a few burgs of -400 could be considered metropolitan to some of you. The meth chefs I have to deal with are the ones that are packing their kitchen in the trunk of a car and parking down a side road, behind old oil wells, etc., even during the day.

No reason to be sorry. You asked about self-defense, I offered my view about what works. It won't work, you're quite right to point out, if you have no real idea of where danger might be lurking.

But if that's true, and you won't stop riding out in the countryside (and I'm _not_ suggesting you give this up), and you're only interested in a few sorts of weapons, there's not a whole lot for us to say. What, carry a cell phone? Try to ride with someone else? I'm sure you can think of these things on your own. There's only so much practical advice that can be offered in a forum like this on this subject.

I do suggest a self-defense course, though, since it will help you plan in advance for dangerous situations whatever weapons you have to use. Having a plan can often make the difference between safe evasion and serious injury or worse. Having some experience in this area, I can also tell you there's too much for me to write here in substitution for some real teaching. But this is one of those areas where there aren't quick or perfect fixes, and it's worth spending some (but not too much) time on.

Cheers.

[psycholist]

Thanks to all of you for your input...agree or disagree, I have some new angles on the issue anyway. So far just riding heads-up and being aware has undoubtedly kept me out of trouble...maybe there's no need at present for an upgrade.


On the other hand, what caliber would you recommend? Snub or full choke?


No no no please don't think I'm going to go there- too many worms in THAT can!:D

[Bigtime]

Hi Mike,
I'm glad to hear we can agree to disagree. I know many people (and some are on this board) that will attempt to ram their ideas down your throat if you don't agree with them. You don't seem to be that type, and I appreciate it.:beer:

No, I haven't seen the WWII bikes but they sound cool. I wonder if my local LBS would carry one? ;) I bet they are worth a bundle if you could somehow find one. Can you imagine riding a bike into combat? On a heavy single speed jalopy with coaster brakes? Oh, that is hillarious.
-BT

[urbanking]

All u really kneed is street smarts bud. If these dudes attack everyone they see there is nuthing you can do, but if not, stay away, and if u don;t bother them they won;t bother u. Besides u have a bike, what else can u want. Just ride away.!

Peace out.

[Roughstuff]

On my round-the-world tour I had to deal with many situations you around-the-USA riders would hardly believe: stone throwing mobs, barracaded roadways, military roadblocks, general mayhem, etc. I have a subsection of my web page called 'Cycling in Dangerous Places' and you guys might want to read it. I will be redoing that section soon, since some of it is a bit overboard, but alot of what i write about is quite reasonable...

*** first, if you REALLY have to defend yourself on a bicycle get off and walk the bike along side of you. You can't defend yourself with your feet off the ground and your hands tied down on a set of handlebars.

***a cell phone is nice, but even better is a camera. Take a picture of who is hassling you and tell them the photo is on its way to the police station. Now, actually the best way to do this is bluff. You can get one of these disposable cameras really cheap and pretend you are snapping a photo even if you are not. When I was in Iran, a car pulled up in the middle of a city and the guys started hassling me for money and 'change money, change money!'. I took a 'photo' (my camera makes a noise when ya slide the lens cover open which sounds like a picture is being taken), said the word 'police,' and they zoomed off. No one wants t hassle with the cops in Iran.

*** don't forget to get the license plate number. I got their license plate number, in fact, and gave it to some Iranian cyclists I met about twenty minutes after the above incident.

***as far as weapons and 'packing pieces' go: as a firm believer in the 2nd amendment, I wouldn't have any problem as a cyclist with carrying a gun. BUT, as with all weapons: you should not use it unless you are really trained in its use and the CONSEQUENCES of that use.

*** third is matter of perspective. I always get questions from readers about hassles on the road. Don't forget that your biggest enemy--automobiles and trucks--goes by you THOUSANDS of times a day. Thats what ya need to defend against, using solid riding skills and defensive skills, a rear view mirror, a helmet, and a good sense of road mastery.

***as a result of all of these and other defensive tactics, I have toured for twenty years in excess of 100,000 miles and have never had a major incident or accident.

http://www.cyclingscholar.com/danger.html




roughstuff

[joeprim]

psycholist
The NRA has a lot of class that they teach. One that is not a firearms related class is "Refuse to Be a Victum". I believe that is still only for women taught by women. I did get an introduction to from a couple of instructors at an NRA event I was at. What I believe is:
It's a look at awareness and avoidance options.
It looks at bare hands options
It looks at weapon options including firearms.

I would think that this would be a good place for you to start. If you decide on going furthur be sure to get training in what ever you select.

If you do select a firearm option training is most important, maybe even if you don't as Mike says to learn their limitations. Since I live half the country away I can't tell you about firearms training there. Here there are a couple of us that give classes espicially for folks with no background in guns and attempt to show the uses and limitations of firearms.
Joe

[chewa]

Am I ever glad I live in Scotland.

The only risk I think I take (other than traffic) is bored schoolkids throwing things.

[Allister]

Originally posted by chewa
Am I ever glad I live in Scotland.

The only risk I think I take (other than traffic) is bored schoolkids throwing things.
Yeah, but don't they throw things like the caber?