Advocacy & Safety - i don't ride as far to the right as possible

if i'm solo, i'll keep about a meter between my bike and the curb. keeps me out of the debris, forces most drivers to make a definitive move when passing me. here in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act states that slower moving vehicles must keep to the right as far as practicable. in a letter to me from the director of the Ministry of Transportation, "the official driver's handbook advises that cyclists may use a whole lane for safety reasons, if necessary, and that they should not compromise their safety for the convenience of motorists behind them".

i don't ride as far to the right as possible

nor should you.

oh, btw - can this be moved to A&S before the psychos chime in?

I do the same thing; except for when a vehicle is coming up on me. Then I pull to the right, as far as possible, and let them pass. There are also situations when (ie a trucker) a vehical cannot safely pass, that's when I pull over, let them pass, and continue on. Since I've started doing this, the number of people yelling / honking at me, has been reduced significantly.

Michigan vehicle says "as far to the right as practicable".

And IBTCP (in before the chiming psychos)

In Ontario it is as far to the right as practicable whilst avoiding potholes, storm grates and obstacles. This means in the middle of most lanes.

Sgt. Hugh Smith of the Toronto Police gave a great talk on the subject explaining that cyclists have a right to the lane and the portion of the lane they choose to ride in is up to them (us.)

The only time I have remotely dangerous encounters is when riding too far to the right - if you are too far to the right people will do the 'squeeze or brush past' but in the middle will assert that you are vehicle and they will pass when it is safe for them to do so.

You drive your car and I will drive mine.

if i'm solo, i'll keep about a meter between my bike and the curb. keeps me out of the debris, forces most drivers to make a definitive move when passing me.

To each his own; I have managed to ride 100,000+ miles within 1-2' of the edge of the road without a problem. I don't want drivers to make any 'definitive moves' other than NOT HITTING ME. I hear what you are saying, but my feeling is that the 'definitive move' might very well be the driver rear ending the cyclist. It's a gray area: depends very much on the road, the condition of the shoulder (if there is one), but I try to stay as far to the right as I can, and it works for me.

Do you have the 'right' to 3' on the side of the road? Yes, you do. The police will console your widow that you died obeying the law.

Besides taking some lane when needed, that little smooth section around 6" wide right next to the white line offers the best road smoothness, and has much less flat-causing tiny debris.

Besides taking some lane when needed, that little smooth section around 6" wide right next to the white line offers the best road smoothness, and has much less flat-causing tiny debris.

yep. far too much crap on the shoulder, which is one of many reasons why i don't ride hugging the side of the road.

To each his own; I have managed to ride 100,000+ miles within 1-2' of the edge of the road without a problem. I don't want drivers to make any 'definitive moves' other than NOT HITTING ME. I hear what you are saying, but my feeling is that the 'definitive move' might very well be the driver rear ending the cyclist. It's a gray area: depends very much on the road, the condition of the shoulder (if there is one), but I try to stay as far to the right as I can, and it works for me.

Do you have the 'right' to 3' on the side of the road? Yes, you do. The police will console your widow that you died obeying the law.

I WISH I could do this. I've ridden in enough centuries in the US to see that road quality is far superior to what we have up here. I live not far from Steeles Ave, which has been voted the worst road in Ontario for the umpteenth year in a row. Debris, sewer grates, potholes big enough to swallow children... If I tried to ride near the curb, I would constantly have to be swerving out 2-3 feet to avoid crash-inducing obstacles. This isn't just stuff that would dent a rim.

So yes, there are lots of stretches where I will ride 2-3 feet out from the curb. Once I get up to the country roads, I'm more than happy to be just left of the white line.

On country roads here I am generally to the RIGHT of the white line, where possible, and it usually is.

I'm a real man. I take up the left lane.

I'm a dead man. I take up the left lane.

Fixed.

It's possible to ride in the gravel, or even the muck down in the ditch.


Won't help your pace much though.

On country roads here I am generally to the RIGHT of the white line, where possible, and it usually is.

I've been lucky enough to get a lot of riding in the Finger Lakes and upstate NY area... The generosity of the shoulders always delights and amazes me!:thumb:

This is a typical country road here... Hence why I ride just left of the line... :(

http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img517/4601/oct112009warden2.jpg

I've been lucky enough to get a lot of riding in the Finger Lakes and upstate NY area... The generosity of the shoulders always delights and amazes me!:thumb:

This is a typical country road here... Hence why I ride just left of the line... :(

http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img517/4601/oct112009warden2.jpg

Theres a perfectly good bike lane between the two yellow lines.

calif state law says the same. Last time I read it's handbook..Often , The curb is full of debris and potholes. No place for stability. But, tell that to passing motorists.. They think you are not on the far right, don't be surprised if someone should attempt to force you further to the right.

I ride wherever is safest.

countdown to A&S starts now...

I've been lucky enough to get a lot of riding in the Finger Lakes and upstate NY area... The generosity of the shoulders always delights and amazes me!:thumb:

This is a typical country road here... Hence why I ride just left of the line... :(

http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img517/4601/oct112009warden2.jpg

Ah... I miss those nice roads. As for Steeles it's bad, but come up North it would just blend in, we just don't have the population to add up the votes.

Theres a perfectly good bike lane between the two yellow lines.

Atol is my new hero. Hey, the guy makes me laugh.

I ride mostly on two lane country roads here in Maryland. I found when I rode as close to the white line as possible, that many drivers would, percieving an open lane with a bicyclist at the edge of it, zoom past like I wasn't there. In fact, you could hear them as they accelerated to pass, that didn't give a safe feeling. Now, I ride about two feet to the left side of the white line, keeping my ears open and my eyes on my rearview mirror. When I see a car approaching, they slow down b/c they now see an obstruction in their lane. Their next impulse is to move to the left to go around and I move to the right as they are passing giving a much more comfortable distance between us. Could this be a problem? Yes, with some drivers who don't give a **** what's in their way, but those drivers won't give you any consideration as long as you are on the same road they're on regardless of where you are. (And falling off the edge of the road and possible landing right in front of them is not my idea of a good place to be).
Rich

Way to many roads out there. If you did that on this road Hwy 60 AZ you would have to pull over every .5 mile. Az law of 5 or more.
http://www.youtube.com/user/bodybait#p/u/27/guSDgFGIOAE

if i'm solo, i'll keep about a meter between my bike and the curb. keeps me out of the debris, forces most drivers to make a definitive move when passing me. here in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act states that slower moving vehicles must keep to the right as far as practicable. in a letter to me from the director of the Ministry of Transportation, "the official driver's handbook advises that cyclists may use a whole lane for safety reasons, if necessary, and that they should not compromise their safety for the convenience of motorists behind them".

Actually if you read the relevant section of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act, it says that you must ride within the right HALF of the road, allowing space that someone can pass on the left. The fact that cyclists usually ride within the right half of the lane, is as a courtesy, to allow faster vehicles to pass without needing to completely go into the left lane. The onus is on the person passing to make sure they can do so safely, if that means needing to slow to 15km/h and staying behind a bicycle for 30km, then that's just the way it is.

I find 1m from the curb is good, and that many drivers will give you about the same on the other side.

if I'm solo, I'll keep about a meter between my bike and the curb. keeps me out of the debris, forces most drivers to make a definitive move when passing me. here in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act states that slower moving vehicles must keep to the right as far as practicable. in a letter to me from the director of the Ministry of Transportation, "the official driver's handbook advises that cyclists may use a whole lane for safety reasons, if necessary, and that they should not compromise their safety for the convenience of motorists behind them".

I can't find it right now, but I know that I've read at the Florida Bicycle Association web site that they recommend staying 3'/1yd/1 meter away from the curb. For the same reasons that you noted.

Yup, that's the biggest flaw in the FRAP laws -- lazy motorists who read what they want to read, IF they read it at all.

Indiana has FRAP -- and recently let an amendment die in legislature that would have corrected a lot of loopholes in bike traffic law, and would have added the 3' requirement. Not that it would have mattered, simply because half the drivers here are below MINIMUM intelligence, not just AVERAGE intelligence.

Yup, that's the biggest flaw in the FRAP laws -- lazy motorists who read what they want to read, IF they read it at all.

Indiana has FRAP -- and recently let an amendment die in legislature that would have corrected a lot of loopholes in bike traffic law, and would have added the 3' requirement. Not that it would have mattered, simply because half the drivers here are below MINIMUM intelligence, not just AVERAGE intelligence.

IF they read at all. This says it all. I doubt one motorists in a hundred has ever read anything regarding any road rules. I know I have not since taking a drivers test too long ago.

Ah... I miss those nice roads. As for Steeles it's bad, but come up North it would just blend in, we just don't have the population to add up the votes.

Actually Steeles is that bad, Steeles Avenue has a couple of problems though, and that has let it get to the point where it's the worst road in Canada.

The normal process with keeping roads in good repair is two fold, first you go over the section of road and seal any moderate to large cracks with molten tar, ideally this is done on an annual basis. Every so many years you grind off the top 2-4cm of asphalt and apply a new top layer, how often this needs to be done, depends on the amount of and weight of traffic on the road. A road that sees a lot of truck traffic needs to be resurfaced more often then a road that sees only light car traffic. You can often keep a road going this way for a long time, in fact you will probably tear it up for other reasons, like replacing sewer or water pipes then needing to tear it up to rebuild it.

Steeles Avenue is on the border of Toronto and York Region, neither one wants to spend the money to maintain the road, properly, so now it's deteriorated to the point where they need to completely rebuild it, the only reason that it's on the books to rebuild it is federal stimulus money will pay for a large part of the cost.

no body is expecting bicyclists ride as far to the right as possible- except of course the motorists!

ride left not right unless a vehicle is overtaking is my default and then only as far to the right as is safe and able to be put into practice at the time.

I can't really tell if the motorists in the opposite lanes get the legality of it or not, their faces seem a bit mystified why I'm closer to the middle of the road than the edge. oh well.

riding only as far right as practicable does put you at odds with more motorists behind you unfortunately.

Actually Steeles is that bad, Steeles Avenue has a couple of problems though, and that has let it get to the point where it's the worst road in Canada.

The normal process with keeping roads in good repair is two fold, first you go over the section of road and seal any moderate to large cracks with molten tar, ideally this is done on an annual basis. Every so many years you grind off the top 2-4cm of asphalt and apply a new top layer, how often this needs to be done, depends on the amount of and weight of traffic on the road. A road that sees a lot of truck traffic needs to be resurfaced more often then a road that sees only light car traffic. You can often keep a road going this way for a long time, in fact you will probably tear it up for other reasons, like replacing sewer or water pipes then needing to tear it up to rebuild it.

Steeles Avenue is on the border of Toronto and York Region, neither one wants to spend the money to maintain the road, properly, so now it's deteriorated to the point where they need to completely rebuild it, the only reason that it's on the books to rebuild it is federal stimulus money will pay for a large part of the cost.

Lighten up, I said it BLENDS in with our roads, meaning our roads are just as bad, not that Steeles is Golden. I know where Steeles is and the problems. I just moved from the GTA after living there for the last 12 years. I rode it daily.

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs45/f/2009/112/5/7/bikes_by_gaviD.jpg

Of course, probably an even better solution would be to take some of that economic stimulus money and widen the shoulders of certain roads to about 24"-36" so we'd have a dedicated place to ride. But I'm not counting on that happening anytime soon around here.
Rich

Of course, probably an even better solution would be to take some of that economic stimulus money and widen the shoulders of certain roads to about 24"-36" so we'd have a dedicated place to ride. But I'm not counting on that happening anytime soon around here.
Rich

They did that up here where they could IE. no concrete shoulder. The whole stimulus was for shave and pave (plastic surgery) and rebuilding of under road infrastructure only where absolutely necessary. Basically make it look good in case of election.

It all depends on circumstances. I have biked tens of thousand of miles just right of the fog line on that tiny 4-8 inches of extra asphalt, and I have also biked (in downtown areas of big cities) in the middle or left lane of 6-lane roads. I am not afraid of being between the double yellow lines on certain roads either.

I follow the laws of physics first and foremost. Anything that keeps me out of the company of bugs on the grill.

if i'm solo, i'll keep about a meter between my bike and the curb. keeps me out of the debris, forces most drivers to make a definitive move when passing me. here in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act states that slower moving vehicles must keep to the right as far as practicable. in a letter to me from the director of the Ministry of Transportation, "the official driver's handbook advises that cyclists may use a whole lane for safety reasons, if necessary, and that they should not compromise their safety for the convenience of motorists behind them".

I never compromise. I not only have a right to be on the road. Also, Until the state law makes, being snug with the curb, absolute, I will not give way to motorists.