Advocacy & Safety - Battery

So, yesterday as I was starting my ride I came to a "T" intersection with a driver sticking so far out into the road that I'd have to either stop or quickly merge into the middle of the road with traffic. I motioned to the motorist to move back so I could proceed, as he was blocking the intersection. He refused to move and so I ended up going around him behind his vehicle.

As I passed him I said "Thanks, a**hole." I kept riding but he pulled up alongside me calling me a f****t and threatening to kick my ass. I got off my bike because I seriously thought he was going to try to run me over. He pulled up next to the curb and kept calling me a f****t repeatedly and kept threatening me until I got fed up and said "OK, whatever, yeah, I may be a f*g but I'd still f**k your wife." He jumped out of his car and started wailing on me while calling me a f****t. I tried to push him off but kept losing my balance due to my cleats.

Another motorist pulled over and stopped the whole incident and called the cops. I totally expected the cops to pin it on me but they were very nice and ended up writing the dude up for battery. The motorist who called the cops told me to not let the guy get away with doing something like that and that he'd be more than willing to show up in court and testify against him.

Now, I know there's a few lawyers on this forum and I have a few questions.

First, when we go to court on this, is there any chance that the dude will actually get convicted due to what I said to him?

Second, since he kept calling me homophobic slurs, is there any way that he'd get hit with a hate crime charge? Despite me not being gay?

And finally, he slammed my head into a wall and ruined my helmet, would he have to pay for me to replace my helmet?

There's many threads on here complaining about how the police repeatedly ignore assaults against cyclists and I'm glad to say that, although I've had a few of those run-ins before, this particular incident was handled very well by the LA County Sheriff's Dept.

Road Rage on HIS part. Sounds like you're in the possition of strength. The Police rose to the occassion and I think all things considered, you're handling (handled) all this in a rational way. Way calmer than I would've, I would in the hospital or he he would, (probably the latter given my track record).. Nothing more than a Post Bump..
Good Luck and I'm glad you're "OK"

I came here expecting a thread about something like battery problems for bicycle lights. D: What an exciting story to read, though. Man, I hope the other guy gets what he deserves.

May as well add : simply to speak to one aspect; at worst you could be accused of verbal assault. HE assault and battery which trumps all. The hate crime aspect, perhaps
... It'll weigh in as far as "in the minds of" if not as a matter of record.

So, yesterday as I was starting my ride I came to a "T" intersection with a driver sticking so far out into the road that I'd have to either stop or quickly merge into the middle of the road with traffic.

And just think ... if you would have stopped or merged with the traffic, you would have saved yourself a whole lot of grief. Maybe next time.

Need to have something to bolster yourself, since you have a cleat/standing up issue; old seatposts have heavy heads on them. But just because of the standing up issue, I'd consider SPDs and mountain bike shoes.

Pursue charges -- then pursue a better position of self-defense out there.

Point to ponder: what is it about bike riding that seems to set off all these deep-rooted insecurities and homophobic tendencies in people? Why do they think you have to exchange your masculinity for a bike? Does being a lazy fat-a$$ behind the wheel of a car, flouting every traffic law you feel you can get away with, make someone a MAN? I'd really like to explore that whole neurosis.

Maybe that'll be a thread.....

First, when we go to court on this, is there any chance that the dude will actually get convicted due to what I said to him?

Second, since he kept calling me homophobic slurs, is there any way that he'd get hit with a hate crime charge? Despite me not being gay?

And finally, he slammed my head into a wall and ruined my helmet, would he have to pay for me to replace my helmet?

1. Yes, he is likely to be convicted. Actually, he is likely to plea bargain, because that's how most cases are resolved. A person can be convicted based on a single witness' testimony, and it sounds like you have at least one or two others who will back up your story. Also, it is not legal to attack someone because they called you a bad name.

2. Hate crime laws usually apply to felonies, and this guy is charged with a misdemeanor. It might be different where you live.

3. If he is convicted, the judge certainly will order restitution for your helmet. Whether and when the guy will pay it is another question. Save the receipt when you buy a new one to show the judge how much you spent.

In addition to pressing criminal charges I also suggest getting an attorney and suing him.

You started the issue by opening your mouth. That doesn't mean you should be assaulted but I feel you started the whole problem. When you call someone a nasty name expect to get kicked in the mouth.

You started the issue by opening your mouth. That doesn't mean you should be assaulted but I feel you started the whole problem. When you call someone a nasty name expect to get kicked in the mouth.

Same here. If I were on a jury, you would have been determined to have Started the whole thing.

You would be wise to delete your original post. It can be used against you.
But then any rider who calls a driver of a 4,000 lb vehicle an a-hole is not wise.

franknstein: I just went back and reread your whole story again. Now I'm wondering why any person would come on a forum and admit to such foolish action. The only thing more startling to me is that you have, and will have, more supporters on this thread for such boorish behavior.

I mean bringing the guy's wife into it? How old are you? Fifteen?

Old TOwn: Adrenaline is a hell of a drug, to paraphrase the Chappell Show.



Point to ponder: what is it about bike riding that seems to set off all these deep-rooted insecurities and homophobic tendencies in people? Why do they think you have to exchange your masculinity for a bike? Does being a lazy fat-a$$ behind the wheel of a car, flouting every traffic law you feel you can get away with, make someone a MAN? I'd really like to explore that whole neurosis.

Easy: The motorist caught himself ogling franknstein's a**. So obviously franknstein is a f** since it's his fault the motorist was looking. I believe it's called projection.

p.s. I firmly believe the only people who use "f**" or "gay" as a mortal insult are those deathly afraid of that part of themselves.:rolleyes:

1. Yes, he is likely to be convicted. Actually, he is likely to plea bargain, because that's how most cases are resolved. A person can be convicted based on a single witness' testimony, and it sounds like you have at least one or two others who will back up your story. Also, it is not legal to attack someone because they called you a bad name.

2. Hate crime laws usually apply to felonies, and this guy is charged with a misdemeanor. It might be different where you live.

3. If he is convicted, the judge certainly will order restitution for your helmet. Whether and when the guy will pay it is another question. Save the receipt when you buy a new one to show the judge how much you spent.

Nice analysis.

Remember though the matter of compensation for the bike helmet is a civil matter and not a criminal matter. I think that there is no dispute that the driver caused the damage to the helmet. So he is liable for restitution. Getting restitution could be done by providing information to the driver for the cost of replacement. If the driver fails to pay up, he could be taken to small claims court. Small claims court is a bit of a hassle. But it is easy to file and the people at the court will help. I have done it once. It can be fun to drag someone in and make them pay up what is due you. Also, since this guy is clearly liable for the helmet, he is responsible for the court costs too. Now, that is how Florida works. I don't know if all states are the same way but I bet they are.

And just think ... if you would have stopped or merged with the traffic, you would have saved yourself a whole lot of grief. Maybe next time.

There you go! Blame the victim.


You started the issue by opening your mouth. That doesn't mean you should be assaulted but I feel you started the whole problem. When you call someone a nasty name expect to get kicked in the mouth.


Same here. If I were on a jury, you would have been determined to have Started the whole thing.

As much as mouthing-off is not a good thing, responding to that by beating people is far, far worse (and illegal). Do you think it's likely that the driver is able to control his mouth (considering he can't control his fists)?

Was the "Thanks, *******" really necessary? Seems like you were just begging for a fight. Every opportunity you had to diffuse the situation, you raised the stakes.

Yeah, the guy was a raging A-hole and he might be convicted as such, but instead of ignoring the initial annoyance and going on with your life, now you have injuries, a busted helmet and the wasted time of a court date. And you're not even a martyr to the cause.

I probably should not have said what I said to him, yes. I have posted it on a public forum because it's in the statement that I gave to the police. I didn't lie to them to make myself look better. I told the officer everything I said and did and he wrote it down.

The dude was being an idiot before I called him an *******. I could have stopped and then he would have said something to me anyway for asking him to move back. I could not have merged into traffic because I would have been hit by a car.

Now, onto the other part, being called a homophobic slur is fine with me, I can deal with it. I don't really care if I make idiots insecure about their sexuality when I'm wearing bibs and a jersey. The problem was that he must have called me that at least 25 times in the span of 5 or so minutes. He kept threatening me to kick my ass because I was a "f****t," and I got tired of him hurling that at me. Would it have been any different if they were racial slurs instead of homophobic ones?

Anyway, I should have kept my mouth shut but I didn't. Does that mean that the dude had the right to shoot me if he'd wanted to?

Cydisc, yes, that's what I regret. I regret the fact that I have a busted helmet and can't ride for a week or so until I have enough money to buy another one. I regret the fact that I have to go through the pain in the ass that is the LA County court system.

I probably should not have said what I said to him, yes. I have posted it on a public forum because it's in the statement that I gave to the police. I didn't lie to them to make myself look better. I told the officer everything I said and did and he wrote it down.

The dude was being an idiot before I called him an *******. I could have stopped and then he would have said something to me anyway for asking him to move back. I could not have merged into traffic because I would have been hit by a car.

Now, onto the other part, being called a homophobic slur is fine with me, I can deal with it. I don't really care if I make idiots insecure about their sexuality when I'm wearing bibs and a jersey. The problem was that he must have called me that at least 25 times in the span of 5 or so minutes. He kept threatening me to kick my ass because I was a "f****t," and I got tired of him hurling that at me. Would it have been any different if they were racial slurs instead of homophobic ones?

Anyway, I should have kept my mouth shut but I didn't. Does that mean that the dude had the right to shoot me if he'd wanted to?

Cydisc, yes, that's what I regret. I regret the fact that I have a busted helmet and can't ride for a week or so until I have enough money to buy another one. I regret the fact that I have to go through the pain in the ass that is the LA County court system.

Hey, pal: He didn't shoot you and you can still ride "for a week" without a helmet. Stop playing the victim. You were the catalyst in this foolish drama. (I still can't believe a kid would do what you did and come on a public forum to admit it. Wow!)

I still can't believe a kid would do what you did and come on a public forum to admit it. Wow!

I have posted it on a public forum because it's in the statement that I gave to the police. I didn't lie to them to make myself look better. I told the officer everything I said and did and he wrote it down.

Christ! So we disagree on everything else but this shouldn't be that hard to grasp.

I have posted it on a public forum because it's in the statement that I gave to the police. I didn't lie to them to make myself look better. I told the officer everything I said and did and he wrote it down.

Christ! So we disagree on everything else but this shouldn't be that hard to grasp.

If I sodomized a goat and told that to the cops, I sure as hell would not go telling the world on the internet. Some things you keep to yourself, kid.

Same here. If I were on a jury, you would have been determined to have Started the whole thing.

You would be wise to delete your original post. It can be used against you.
But then any rider who calls a driver of a 4,000 lb vehicle an a-hole is not wise.

Deleting the post will only remove it from public view. It will still be in BF's archives, and as such can still be Subpoenaed to be used for evidence.

Well, as far as everyone scolding you for 'starting' things by swearing at the car...

I dont think anyone can throw stones, because I havent met a cyclist yet that hasnt at some point, swore at a driver being a jerk.

It's going to feel good when the judge busts this guy, even on a plea bargain.

Thanks from all us cyclists to the witness ... and the deputy.

I have posted it on a public forum because it's in the statement that I gave to the police. I didn't lie to them to make myself look better. I told the officer everything I said and did and he wrote it down.

Christ! So we disagree on everything else but this shouldn't be that hard to grasp.


Franknstein, don't listen to the naysayers and don't back down on this case ... :thumb:

Remember, the motorist assaulted you and damaged your personal property. Follow through on the case and teach him a lesson.

Franknstein, don't listen to the naysayers and don't back down on this case ... :thumb:

Remember, the motorist assaulted you and damaged your personal property. Follow through on the case and teach him a lesson.

Frank, I hope you lose your shirt.

The cyclist stands up to a JAM/Bully and so many here jump on his case. The JAM/Bully instigated the situation by illegally blocking the path, the cyclist politely ask the JAM/Bully to move back to a legal position (something many motorist would have done without even being asked, once they realized they were blocking the path). The JAM/Bully escalates by refusing to move. The cyclist does the smart thing by not putting himself in front of the JAM/Bully. So what if the cyclist called the JAM/Bully an ahole, that is what the guy is (I would have called the guy a b**ch instead, just because it would piss him off even more). The cyclist just keeps riding and the JAM/Bully escalates by pulling alongside and committing verbal assault/threats of bodily harm. The cyclist never threatens harm, never commits verbal assault, but the JAM/Bully again escalates it to battery.

Another motorist sees the entire incident, stands by the cyclist and is willing to "waste all that time in court" to set the JAM/Bully Road Rager straight; but other cyclist here blame the OP for standing up to the fool. OP, thanks to you, this guy may be set straight (or at least less bent) and save someone from far worse injury from this guy.

As to restitution, it can occur in criminal court as part of a plea agreement or stipulation of parol, without the need for a civil case. Of course, if JAM/Bully decides to a plea agreement and/or just plead no contest, it would be smart of him to just pay up before the judge gets to decide JAM/Bullies fate.

OP, why is it a waste of time going to court. JAM/Bully is the one who will really be hating it. You and the good motorist are just witnesses. Most courts cover travel mileage and a small amount of pay each time you go to court under subpoena. By the time JAM/Bully delays proceedings a few times (hoping you and the other witness will not show up the next time) and if you ride your bike each time, you should end up with enough extra money to buy a second, really nice helmet. The case may be settled in part of a day, or you may have to go back to court five or so days (sometimes separated by a month or so).

If none of us stand up for our rights, then none of us have any rights. OP, today and in the court was/is your turn to stand up for all of us (including those too fearful or misguided to do so). You and the motorist have done well so far.

PS "less bent" in no way is a reference to recumbent riders (so chill out guys, I sometimes ride a bent as well).

Frank, I hope you lose your shirt.Anyone else notice the huge stick up Old Town's butt against so many cyclist in BFs?

Anyone else notice the huge stick up Old Town's butt against so many cyclist in BFs?

Only the malcontents.

Only the malcontents.So, no mirrors in your house?

So, no mirrors in your house?

If you were as homely as me, you'd place no mirrors anywhere.

CB HI: We simply see the world differently. Most of the problems I see outlined on this thread are issues of maturity or lack thereof. Bad things happen. But retaliating with words is NEVER a good idea. Young people eventually learn this as they grow older. There is no issue involving bad traffic manners worth a court action or a shotgun blast to the face. Never provoke a stranger.

If nobody had a countering view to the status quo on this or any other forum what a boring place it would be. Preaching to the choir is not for me.

If nobody had a countering view to the status quo on this or any other forum what a boring place it would be. Preaching to the choir is not for me.Seems you are the choir director in this thread.

You started the issue by opening your mouth. That doesn't mean you should be assaulted but I feel you started the whole problem. When you call someone a nasty name expect to get kicked in the mouth.

OT,

No the motorist "started it" by using his car to block the intersection. Now granted his insulting the driver didn't help matters any, but that hardly justifies the motorists continued belligerence. Or his escalating to violence.

The police by arresting, and the courts by convicting have proven time-and-time again that no matter what is said that that is NOT justification for anyone to ever escalate to violence.

The bottom line is that if the motorist in question had behaved in a responsible, and legal manner everything could and would have been avoided.

And granted we only have "Frank's" side of the story, but the motorist in this case sounds like he might have gone to the "good" doctor from another thread "school of driving." And there is probably a good chance that no matter what "Frank" said or did after passing the motorist that he would have either continued to taunt/threaten him.

I am also glad to hear that there is a witness to the incident that is willing to come forward and testify in court. We need more people like the witness in this case.

Same here. If I were on a jury, you would have been determined to have Started the whole thing.

You would be wise to delete your original post. It can be used against you.
But then any rider who calls a driver of a 4,000 lb vehicle an a-hole is not wise.

How do you figure that "Frank" had "started the whole thing?" Didn't you read where the motorist was the one who was blocking the intersection with his car, and refused to back up to allow the legal traffic to proceed?

Seems you are the choir director in this thread.

Well...actually I agree with Old Town. The OP showed serious lack of maturity with his comment about the guy's wife. This is exactly why you don't provoke a stranger, you might get more than you can handle. Furthermore, if I yelled at every dangerous, impatient, and ignorant driver I'd be in court every day!

D Cowboy: We only have the OP's side of the story. The side that says the other guy started it. Frankly I have a hard time believing a kid as immature as the OP seems to be. Forget who did what to start it. Mouthing off to strangers is an invite to a very bad time. Better to simply go on your own way safe in the knowledge you are the better man. Nobody wins in court or at the coroner's office. But if you want to start a street fight? who am I to stop you. Good luck and wear a kevlar vest.

Seems you are the choir director in this thread.

CB HI: I'm the contra leader. If you don't really understand the meaning of a trite old saying (see above) don't use it. It shows a certain inability to keep up.

How was the driver blocking the intersection if the traffic behind the cyclist could continue thru it?

CB HI: I'm the contra leader. If you don't really understand the meaning of a trite old saying (see above) don't use it. It shows a certain inability to keep up.Seems you are the one that is slow to understand the counter point.

Frank I hope everything gets resolved. As you probably realized yourself, the best option is just not to react, or as the wise penguins from Madagascar said "Just smile and wave, just smile and wave." Also as Machka pointed out, next time a better alternative might be just to merge in to traffic and pass in front of the car, just like any other vehicle.

P.S. Ignore Old Town as far as I can tell he has some deep rooted issues.

UD

UD: Everyone needs a hobby. I've found mine. Gotta give you and the other boys in your camp credit for one thing at least, you didn't call me a troll. Not yet anyway. That's for when you run out of ideas. And a guy like you, that won't be long. I'm out.

UD: Everyone needs a hobby. I've found mine. Gotta give you and the other boys in your camp credit for one thing at least, you didn't call me a troll. Not yet anyway. That's for when you run out of ideas. And a guy like you, that won't be long. I'm out.

Woohoo I am in some kind of camp. I am not quite sure which one, but hey I belong somewhere! I always wanted to be part of the group! :roflmao2:

UD

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/nxtbardi/peng.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_B23QGCEmA

There you go! Blame the victim.


I'm not blaming the victim. I'm blaming the person who started the whole thing.

Just wanted to add, I was accusing the motorist of homophobia, not the OP.

So you mouthed off to the dude and he handed you your a**?


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

A bit of psych fun: in which circle can you not see a number?

... if I yelled at every dangerous, impatient, and ignorant driver I'd be in court every day!
See, that's the reason the jam was arrested -- that's simply not true. I have had the misfortune to run across a fairly large number of people that shouldn't be driving due to the inability to control themselves, but none have ever hit me in anger.


Anyone else notice the huge stick up Old Town's butt against so many cyclist in BFs?
He's hardly alone, this forum is rank with self-hating cyclists and the occasional JAM masquerading as a cyclist. And if it isn't one of them, it's someone else that has their own perverse reason for criticizing the victim. Anyone that posts a thread about a problem with a motorist can expect it to devolve into blaming the cyclist pretty quickly. I shouldn't have been shocked to see that the thread about the criminal that slammed on his brakes in front of the cyclists had people blaming the cyclists, but I was.

I'm not blaming the victim. I'm blaming the person who started the whole thing.
It's isn't that clear who "started the whole thing". And calling somebody names is a pretty lame way to start anything.

The OP's choice of actions were poor. That doesn't mean the driver has a right to beat him up (the law denies the driver that right).


As I passed him I said "Thanks, a**hole." I kept riding but he pulled up alongside me calling me a f****t and threatening to kick my ass.
Anyway, being called an "a-hole" is not that unusal an event. The driver could have (and should) have ignored it. The driver chose to escalate it. If the OP's was dumb, the driver's act was much more dumb.

A bit of psych fun: in which circle can you not see a number?

#7.

-Kurt

#5 - Is this some sort of colorblindness test?

#5 - Is this some sort of colorblindness test?

Yes, it is. Those who have difficulty seeing one particular color (don't know which color) will see a different pattern of numbers.

-Kurt