Touring - Soma Saga

Anyone had a chance to ride one and if so what did ya think? I cant make up my mind between a LHT or the saga both seem great but would really like some feedback

Some friends recently started an open-ended tour on Soma's Sagas. Below is a link with a fair bit of information on the bikes they built up, how they ride, etc. Of what I gather from them, they like the Saga very much.

http://wekeepgoing.com/blog/category/equipment/

Offhand, the biggest different that I notice between the LHT and the Saga is the frame geometry. The two frames have significantly different geometries, and I would recommend the one that fits you best. In my case, the Saga has much better geometry than the LHT. The LHT has a longer top tube and shorter head tube than my preferences, while the Saga is just right. However, your fit preferences may be very different than mine.

If the Saga had been available last winter, I probably would have bought one. Instead I bought a Bob Jackson World Tour, which fits me very well except the short head tube.

I'm also impressed with the Saga. I have a Soma Double Cross DC that I use for fitness rides & century events. I've been very happy with this frame and like the specs on the Saga. I could build a Saga for touring and less than ideal riding conditions such as unpaved roads (or damaged pavement) or wet weather.

Michael

I think the color of the Saga is beautiful. I wished I'd have known this frame was coming out before I bought my LHT frame. I do have to say that outside of the aesthetic, the LHT is an awesome frame and I have no regrets. I can always re powder coat my frame to match. Does the Saga have spare spoke holders, chain hanger and pump peg? Also I don't care as much for the unicrown fork. It's not much of a complaint but just not my preference.

yup its got it all There's even a plate behind the BB for a double kickstand. Whats the difference between the lht fork and the somas? Also how should i go about figureing out the right geomtries for me im 5 foot 7 and am very skinny sorry for such a newbie question.

A unicrown fork has the fork blades bent and joined at the steering tube. A crowned fork (like the LHT) has the fork blades brazed into a lug and are more square at the top. Which one is stronger? I can't really answer that but I'm sure the unicrown is easier to fabricate because they make a crap load of bikes with them (think WalMart) but that in itself isn't an indictment of the fork design just an observation.

It is a really nice looking frame.

I really hope they went to a standard pinch style seat bolt on this one. PLEASE change the design of your seatbolt binder, Soma!

I think the color of the Saga is beautiful. I wished I'd have known this frame was coming out before I bought my LHT frame. I do have to say that outside of the aesthetic, the LHT is an awesome frame and I have no regrets. I can always re powder coat my frame to match. Does the Saga have spare spoke holders, chain hanger and pump peg? Also I don't care as much for the unicrown fork. It's not much of a complaint but just not my preference.

Not sure what pics you have seen or what you've read, but the Saga is spec'd with a very nice looking lugged crown cro-moly fork.

I really hope they went to a standard pinch style seat bolt on this one. PLEASE change the design of your seatbolt binder, Soma!

What do you dislike about the seat bolt? It does look odd to me - as though there is no nut. There is a great picture of the seat bolt on the Saga at http://www.renaissancebicycles.com/soma/soma-saga/?album=17&gallery=46.

you notice it is the 'threads directly into the frame' system?

don't adjust your seatpost too much, or let an overeager mechanic go messing with your frame.... and when the seatpost bolt eventually strips out, you can't simply replace it with a new one.

maybe i see this as a liability as i have seen more than a few frames with a stripped bolt, don't think Soma should make frames with a lousy 1970's era frame element.

I really hope they went to a standard pinch style seat bolt on this one. PLEASE change the design of your seatbolt binder, Soma!

Agree. Pinch bolts are a very bad design due to the fact the bolt bends as you tighten it. There is no other way around it unless the frame builder made the bolt opening oblong and convex which I have yet to see. If you have one, take a close look at the bolt and you will see it is bending and hopefully only slightly. I recently had mine removed and replaced w/ a Salsa clamp. I started a thread on the SJS forum site expressing my dislike of the pinch bolt on my sherpa and before and after photos. Quite a few people chimed in that their bolts had snapped.

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2226.0


Other than that, the Saga does looks great and I like the shorter top tube for drops.

Yeah the brazed on binch bolt on the soma is a drawback but not big, if it fails our you dislike it just cut 'em off with a hacksaw and clean it up with a file and install a collar... don't forget the touch-up. The brazed-on pinch should be fine anyway.

I didn't read closely enough and was surprised when I pulled my soma fork out of the box and found it had a flat crown! The pics on the net show a sloping or semi-sloping crown. I doubt it will make any strength difference and it sure looks nice, if anything the slightly longer blades may help add a little more "compliance" to the front end. I do not like the recessed brake ready forging to the crown though. I am also stoked about mounting a double kick center mount on this bike, I hate frame mount rearward kickstands so this was a huge plus for me over the LHT.

I had a 62cm LHT and I hated it, way to long and the ride was aweful, but I guess that is how a touring bike feels, dead like a truck. We'll see how the soma stakes up, I got a 60cm and am just shy of 6'4", I think the somas are too long as well but they seem to be a few mils shorter in the top tubes for any given size. I'm nearly 6'4" and ride road bikes with 58cm top tubes and anywhere from 59-62cm seat tubes (actual), why do they make these frames so long? It's the reason you see people with the absurd amount of stack on their hideous LHTs... because the frame are too damn long in the TT... oh well, I'll post photos of my saga next week when I get 'er built.

I find the matter of the color important myself, more than I'd wish for it to be. I like light colors and, although I can appreciate the distinction of a deep dark blue, the color of the Soma depresses me. But it is just me riding a smooth utility blue LHT...
The kickstand plate controversy (yes it has reached that point in some quarters) is, IMHO, largely overdone: I installed my double kickstand without any problem.
The price of the LHT is better, its reliability is proven and it benefits from the support of a much larger community.
The one thing that might work in favor of the Soma Saga is its sloping top tube which makes a 'French Fit' (bike as tall as possible for randonnées and touring) more acceptable for those who worry about stand over height. It would mean for me, with my 1,78m and 85 inseam, that I could go for a 58cm Soma rather than a 56cm LHT. Then again, would the top tube length become too much for a shortish torso? On the LHT one might compensate with a longer steering tube.

My 2 cents.

I didn't read closely enough and was surprised when I pulled my soma fork out of the box and found it had a flat crown! The pics on the net show a sloping or semi-sloping crown. I doubt it will make any strength difference and it sure looks nice, if anything the slightly longer blades may help add a little more "compliance" to the front end.
Mine arrived yesterday, and it has the sloping crown seen on the net. I got a 54 cm frame and I see yours is a 60. I wonder if they ship the flat crown fork with the larger sizes?

Mine arrived yesterday, and it has the sloping crown seen on the net. I got a 54 cm frame and I see yours is a 60. I wonder if they ship the flat crown fork with the larger sizes?

I wouldn't be surprised. I am thinking I'll warranty mine, the crown race slips on by hand, though green loctite bearing retainer may be enough to solve that issue, and the the drive side of the BB has a thin lip extending past the thread portion a couple millimeters. It seems odd and if I face it I'll have an overly narrow bb and have to use spacers, not a huge deal but it's brand new! What does your drive side BB face look like?

I wouldn't be surprised. I am thinking I'll warranty mine, the crown race slips on by hand, though green loctite bearing retainer may be enough to solve that issue, and the the drive side of the BB has a thin lip extending past the thread portion a couple millimeters. It seems odd and if I face it I'll have an overly narrow bb and have to use spacers, not a huge deal but it's brand new! What does your drive side BB face look like?
My drive side BB face has that lip too. I'm not going to fret about it because I plan to use a square taper BB, so there's no need for me to face the BB.

I haven't got my headset yet, so I can't comment on the crown race fit.

My drive side BB face has that lip too. I'm not going to fret about it because I plan to use a square taper BB, so there's no need for me to face the BB.

I haven't got my headset yet, so I can't comment on the crown race fit.

interesting and bizarre! But regardless of what BB you use the cup is still going to be tightening up against that thin lip. The only BB that wouldn't is a phil wood. If yours has it then they probably all have it and I have to live with it. Huh. As a mechanic I certainly can say I find it disconcerting, but perhaps there is a reason for it?

I just received my 50cm Saga. Still waiting on some parts for the build. My initial thoughts are that the frame looks very nice, has a billion braze-ons, has a very stout looking headtube and has a lot of tire clearance. Weld and paint quality look excellent. I'll definitely post pics of the finished bike when I'm done, and I'd be happy to post pics of the frame if people are interested.

Word from Soma is the BB shelf is normal, I've never seen it before so I was skeptical... however... so be it! Yes everyone should post pics of there Sagas when done!

The bottom bracket shell looks normal to me, aside from a millimeter or two that isn't threaded on the outside of the drive side (is that what you guys are talking about?). I don't see how that would be an issue in any way; theres still going to be plenty of BB cup threaded into the frame. I imagine that the purpose is to keep the threads from being mangled when the shell is painted or faced by recessing them slightly.

I gave the frame its interior rust-prevention treatment this morning and shot a few pics while I was at it. Nothing fancy, but maybe they'll be useful for someone so here you are.

To satisfy my curiosity I tossed the rear wheel from my DJ bike on there to check tire clearance. Thats a 2.4" Maxxis Holy Roller on a Deetrax rim (actually measures 57mm/2.25") and it fit with about 1/4" clearance all around. I couldn't check the fork (all my MTB wheels are for a 20mm thru-axle) but it looks about the same as the frame.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9673/img5152gw.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/img5152gw.jpg/) http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1015/img5150.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/img5150.jpg/)
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1996/img5151.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/img5151.jpg/) http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3071/img5153h.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/img5153h.jpg/)
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/108/img5154s.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/img5154s.jpg/) http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/55/img5155w.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/img5155w.jpg/) http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5329/img5156f.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/img5156f.jpg/)
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1262/img5148.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/img5148.jpg/) http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8223/img5149.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/img5149.jpg/)

The unicrown fork was around LONG before Wal mart bikes and Huffy's began using
them, and has been on road bikes since at least the late eighties/early nineties.
The first place I remember them showing up is on late 70's BMX bikes, where strength
was a determining factor in the changeover.,,,,BD

I got a 60cm and am just shy of 6'4", I think the somas are too long as well but they seem to be a few mils shorter in the top tubes for any given size. I'm nearly 6'4" and ride road bikes with 58cm top tubes and anywhere from 59-62cm seat tubes (actual), why do they make these frames so long? It's the reason you see people with the absurd amount of stack on their hideous LHTs... because the frame are too damn long in the TT... oh well, I'll post photos of my saga next week when I get 'er built.

I am surprised to read this. I would think at 6'4" you would prefer longer than a 58cm top tube. I went with the LHT because it does have a long top tube. But, I am a little taller at 6'6" with monkey arms as well. No one is going to mistake my LHT for a race bike, but I like the overbuilt tank ride. I think unloaded mine weighed in a mid-30 lbs last time I weighed it. I lost some weight recently by ditching the Surly Nice Racks for a Tubus Cargo and eventually a Tubus Tara up front. I did the math before hand and the Surly-Tubus rack switched would drop almost 3 lbs!

I am surprised to read this. I would think at 6'4" you would prefer longer than a 58cm top tube. I went with the LHT because it does have a long top tube. But, I am a little taller at 6'6" with monkey arms as well. No one is going to mistake my LHT for a race bike, but I like the overbuilt tank ride. I think unloaded mine weighed in a mid-30 lbs last time I weighed it. I lost some weight recently by ditching the Surly Nice Racks for a Tubus Cargo and eventually a Tubus Tara up front. I did the math before hand and the Surly-Tubus rack switched would drop almost 3 lbs!

And get this, My arm span is 6'8"! My old room mate was 6'5" and change and had a 6'4" arm span! You'd think I need a long bike, I tend to run a 110 or 120mm stem with a 58ish top tube depending on bar drop, the more the drop the longer the stem. That's the other thing about the LHT, they leave the stear tube super long and you see people with their bars at saddle height. However, as you raise the bars you need to shorten the reach. Most people find about 80-90 degree to be the magic arm to torso angle on the bike. This is what you roughly put people in when you fit a bike and lengthen or shorten according to their reported comfort. As I stated in another thread, you can't expect to be comfortable with the same amount of reach with your bars level to the saddle as you are with the bars 2 inches lower than the saddle. I run 5" of drop on my road bike... the long arms probably make this doable with a reasonable back angle, it makes my bike look pretty bad ass too. Anyway, I knew little about bike fit a year ago and still know very little, but I know now that reach is everything and since I had so many 62cm frames that fit great (all with 58cm or the odd 59cm top tube) I naturally assumed the 62cm LHT was what I needed. I was very wrong, I had a 100mm stem on it and felt too stretched with no power and my hands went numb after a short period (a sign you are too stretched out).

I just did a little comparison of touring bike geometries... note the sizes are not normalized to this is a terrible comparison but I think it shows generally the differences in geometry.

You can see Soma and Surly are very similar, i think this geometry is designed around the idea of versatility for the bike to be either flat or drop bar so they compromise with an in between TT size.

The cannondale shows generally shorter TTs than the competitors and I think if I shifted the c-dale line to the right it would be more true as the seat tube sizes are actual and the frames have sloping TTs.

I think trek in general has shorter TTs as well. Both the trek and the c-dale are designed as drop bar tourers and therefore the shorter TT. again the irony is that these bike would come stock with a lower handlebar position and therefore the rider should be able to tolerate a longer reach while the soma and surly allow the rider more bar height variation out of the box which means if you go high you need it short. We can also see there is more variation in the larger sizes.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/abier622/touringbikecomparison.jpg