Winter Cycling - Modern windproof fleece as an outer layer

I know the merits of fleece and wool have been discussed at length here and both are obvious choices for insulation layers. Most have posted that regular fleece is worthless at blocking wind but I can't find any comments from users of windproof fleece as an outer layer.

I'm having a tough time staying dry in temps from the low 30's to low 40's, some at night with out the added warmth of the sun. I'm thinking of switching from the standard outer nylon shell to a windprrof fleece jacket or soft shell type that claim to be breathable. I'm concerned about the lack of proper ventilation since most of these are not cycling specific (like LL Bean) but with most nylon shells I'm staying wet and getting chilled since they trap too much moisture.

You can try a wind resistant fleece vest for 30-40's. I use a windproof one and it's very warm the jacket might be too much for those temps.

The wind-resistance fabrics are quite better at breathing but at the cost of waterproofness.

I love the Foxwear fleece pants Lou just made for me. Great material for outer layer.
http://www.foxwear.net/products_pants.html

I wear a Pearl Izumi Gavia jacket and a long sleeve winter jersey. Toasty, dry, windproof.

I have some polartec stuff I got from cabelas (vest and fleece jacket) and love them off the bike....but find them WAY too hot on it.

I run hotter than most though. I usually wear a single t-shirt and a zip hoddie on 40F days. In the 20's and 30's I just wear another LS t-shirt under that.

I love the Foxwear fleece pants Lou just made for me. Great material for outer layer.
http://www.foxwear.net/products_pants.html

He has many different levels of windblocking materials and weights to choose from. Give him a call.

Look at the tights options also.

I have an old (circa 1995 I think) Performance winter cycling jacket that's essentially just very lightweight fleece, but with windproof panels sewn to the exterior of the front, and the top of the arms.

It is one of the best cycling purchases I've ever made.

Very warm, but it breathes & vents wonderfully. However, I can imagine if the entire thing were covered with those windproof panels that the whole thing would be much too hot; it definitely only works because of how the back & underside of the arms vent so well.

No idea how the more modern "windproof" fleeces would compare.

I have one of these

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=56539&storeId=1&catalogId=1&langId=-1&parentCategory=504719&feat=504719-tn&cat4=504714

that I use as basically my full-time winter jacket, not for cycling. But last week I dropped my car at the body shop to have my bumper fixed, and rode my mountain bike home. I wore this jacket over an EMS Techwick shirt, temps in the mid to low 40's, and I was toasty warm the whole time I was out on the bike, maybe an hour. It was a bit brreezy and raw, but I never felt it through the jacket.

Can't really speak for the breathability though, as I never really worked hard enough to start really sweating.

There's a lot of good advive. There's no perfect advice for everyone.

Fleece allows greater transpiration of sweat than laminates. It allows more airfliow.

In some circumstances, more layers of fleece work, relative to a windproof laminate with fewer layers.

If you are riding really long, e.g. 3, 4, 5 + hours, taking a second set of dry tops can work wonders to solve clammy chill. Even after baring your chest to change, you will feel instantly warmer.

Polypropylene next to your skin, and acrylic or wool next will aid sweat movement off your skin.

Wetsuit closed-cell neoprene will make you really wet, but it allows your body to warm the water layer. Cold water is 30 times more heat-conducting than cold air. With windchill, cold-water is 5+ times more chilling than equivalent-temp air. I tested a 50-60 surfsuit skiing in 20 Utah skiing. Niice.

Some people are fans of Lou Fox. Never tried his wares. He makes kit in lots of different materials. Reading icebiker.net and his website, it looks very good. You might want to talk to him about sewing in some pit-zips. These really improve versatility.

I have ridden with Gore Windstopper and Gore-Tex. Elimination of windchill is superb. "Breathability" relies on opening the pitzips. When you start are riding fast and feel hot and sweaty, open them up. When you start feeling cold, zip em closed.

Fleece is quite a good insulator a low speed and a very poor one at high speed. If your route involves hills this is the complete opposite of your requirements.
I recommend an outer layer of windproof but non-waterproof material. You can carry a waterproof for rain but stow it in the dry.
Windproof materials comes in many different levels of permeability. A little permeability can be a good thing, allowing moist air space to escape without having to open pitzips. A tight-weave polycotton or polyester material is good. Some of the pertex type nylons are also popular. Membrane style windproofs are much less permeable.
I prefer a windproof layer to have no insulation or the minimum required. You can add or remove insulated layers such as fleese, as required. I usually carry a zip-up sleeveless fleece and wera it under my winter windproof on cold evenings. I sometimes put it over my windproof on cold mornings, knowing I can easily take it off after 10 minutes.

There's a lot of good advive. There's no perfect advice for everyone.

Fleece allows greater transpiration of sweat than laminates. It allows more airfliow.


However, windproof fleece *is* a laminate - that's where the windproofness comes from.



I have ridden with Gore Windstopper and Gore-Tex. Elimination of windchill is superb. "Breathability" relies on opening the pitzips. When you start are riding fast and feel hot and sweaty, open them up. When you start feeling cold, zip em closed.

There are at least two solutions that will give much better performance.

1. Pertex and fleece. The usual solution in the UK/US is a pertex shell over fleece, but the Scandinavians favour Pertex underwear. You can find this sold for motorcyclists here. Pertex is extremely windproof and extremely breathable.

2. A Paramo Velez or one of their other "directional fabric" jackets or smocks. These aren't just completely breathable but actually super-wicking - you can put one over a wet wicking T and it will dry it. They provide insulation, so you might not need a fleece. They're also rain proof. The downsides are they're not cheap and they're hard to find in the US. But this tech will keep you warm and dry all the way into literally Arctic conditions, and Paramo lasts forever. See eg http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/5799. You might feel too warm in a Paramo - depending on conditions - but you will never feel sweaty.

Paramo is one of the best winter clothing systems for cold, damp and wet conditions. My Cuzco jacket is around 7 years old and works as well now as it did when new. From Oct to May I wear it every day.
Before I used Paramo I used a separate permeable windproof and light insulation with a separate waterproof but the Paramo replaces all of these.
You do need to treat with Nikwax proofing every 3-6 months. How available is this in the US. This may sound like a lot of hassle compared to Gortex but
1. Its isn't a lot of hassle, its just 2 wash cycles in a washing mchine.
2. Gortex needs to have its DWR beading treatment renewed after hard use or it soaks up water, stops breathing and takes hours to dry.

Paramo is one of the best winter clothing systems for cold, damp and wet conditions. My Cuzco jacket is around 7 years old and works as well now as it did when new. From Oct to May I wear it every day.
Before I used Paramo I used a separate permeable windproof and light insulation with a separate waterproof but the Paramo replaces all of these.
You do need to treat with Nikwax proofing every 3-6 months. How available is this in the US.


It's easy to get.



This may sound like a lot of hassle compared to Gortex but
1. Its isn't a lot of hassle, its just 2 wash cycles in a washing mchine.
2. Gortex needs to have its DWR beading treatment renewed after hard use or it soaks up water, stops breathing and takes hours to dry.The other Paramo advantage is tears. The jacket sucks water back out that gets in through them while they're there, and when you get home you can repair them with a needle and thread. The holes for the thread would ruin a laminate like Gore Tex but are no problem for Paramo.

Paramo does run warm - its not a good choice for summer rain. But as a winter and autumn shell it's unsurpassed. Having tried it out I'm buying Paramo this year.

Paramo is one of the best winter clothing systems for cold, damp and wet conditions. My Cuzco jacket is around 7 years old and works as well now as it did when new. From Oct to May I wear it every day.
Before I used Paramo I used a separate permeable windproof and light insulation with a separate waterproof but the Paramo replaces all of these.
You do need to treat with Nikwax proofing every 3-6 months. How available is this in the US. This may sound like a lot of hassle compared to Gortex but
1. Its isn't a lot of hassle, its just 2 wash cycles in a washing mchine.
2. Gortex needs to have its DWR beading treatment renewed after hard use or it soaks up water, stops breathing and takes hours to dry.

Do they have a lower body garmet that can be worn as a chamoisless tight? Which models would you recommend?

the Gore Tool Jacket is THE iconic windproof fleece cycling jacket, this year with pit zips for better venting.

I 'm not sold on discontinuous laminate bonding myself, but the Gore Tool jacket sets a benchmark standard for technical fleece winter cycling jackets that many others fail to meet.

Paramo pants are a bit too loose for cycling. Better stick to cycling specific leggings.

Paramo pants are a bit too loose for cycling. Better stick to cycling specific leggings.

There is a company called Cioch that makes clothes to measure using Paramo fabrics. If you're riding in really bad conditions outside of the range of cycling specific clothing you could mail them - they're said to be very helpful. They do cost a bit more even than Parmo though:

http://www.cioch-direct.co.uk/

The other option could be to buy Parmo trousers and mod them yourself or get a local tailor/dress maker to do it. Eg you could cut them down to 3/4 length or add velcro. Because you can penetrate them with a needle and thread without destroying their waterproof nature you should be able to do anything you want. Their site is here:

http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/index.php

Re biking and Paramo:



http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/3160

Whether you get on with Paramo seems to depend a lot on how hot you run. The pump liner acts as an extra insulation layerl and for those who really chuck out the heat, it can all get a bit too much unless it's really cold. The lighter lining goes some way towards resolving that problem.

The the latest Velez is appreciably cooler than its predecessor. Open up the generous and easy to use side vents - they work well even wearing a pack and with gloved hands - and you can lose more heat. It's still warmer than a single layer conventional shell or windproof garment, and we still found it on the warm side in milder conditions, but definitely better than before.

It's also very effective at handling excess moisture when you do boil over. Some mountain biking mates were amazed by the steam rising from the Velez during a rest stop on a hectic night ride. Really, clouds of steam rising from the surface of the garment. The bottom line is that while you may sweat a little more, the Paramo system does handle the excess moisture very effectively.

is Polartech the same as Goretex??? there are PT and GT fleece are they the same thing

Bud

I just posted about this in another thread...my main outer layer is a simple $20 Columbia fleece jacket. Temps from -5 f to the 50's.

there are several flavors of polartec. The standard stuff, then WindPro ("4 times more wind resistant"), and WindBloc (laminate layer). I think there are different weights of each as well.