Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Building a Carbon Fiber SS - advice?

Hi,

This is my first post here, so first a little background. I have been mountain biking for a couple of years now and recently completed my first 35 mile race and it was a blast. I started riding a single speed road bike for a couple of reasons - to commute to work (6 mile ride), to train for mountain biking, and then because my wife got a road bike and started wanting to ride together. Here's my Cannondale Rush with Mavic 818 tubeless, XT drivetrain, and a few other mods.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/1230/dsc07702.jpg

I built a 1965 Schwinn Collegiate that I have been riding with 26" mountain bike wheels and 1.25" slicks on it. It has been a fun bike to ride, but I'm ready for something lighter, stiffer and taller. It sits pretty low on 26" wheels.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3395/dsc08081.jpg

So I picked up this carbon fiber Douglas frame, FSA ergo drop bars, a stem and a Cane Creek headset at Titus' yard sale last weekend as a starting point for a new build. It has vertical dropouts, so I am looking for the magic gear to keep about 80 gear inches and not run a tensioner. For me, the simpler and cleaner the better.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8136/dsc08080y.jpg

Right now I'm trying to choose wheels, I like the look of 16h or 20h wheels so that's what I'm going for.

Tell me what you think of these wheels:

Spinergy SR-3

http://images.craigslist.org/3nb3k03o25O35Qd5Rb9b19886798957fc1c65.jpg

Shimano WH-R535

http://images.craigslist.org/3mf3o13lc5O85Q35R19b1ce177961c0dd1a8f.jpg

or the cheapo Forte Titus

http://images.craigslist.org/3nb3kb3m85Tc5R55Sf9an41be430c4b7a17d6.jpg


Any other parts advice for this build?

well, if you don't want to run a tensioner, get a white industries eno hub. iirc it's for both fixed and singlespeed, but you can just throw a freewheel on the fixed side if it doesn't technically have a freewheel threading.

much less ghetto than magic gear nonsense. and looking at the wheels you're looking at, it's not too unreasonable. build it up to an open pro or a velocity aerohead, it will be light enough and probably more durable than the wheels you listed

oh make sure you get the hub spaced out to 130. dunno if they already are, but it wouldn't be that hard.

+1 on Eno hub. IRD Niobium rims might also be up your alley.

Why is the magic gear ghetto? Seemed cleaner to me. I am trying to stay cheap on this build. The wheels I posted are in the $200 range from Craigslist. Thanks for the advice, keep it coming.

Ok, looking at the White Ind hubs, they have a single speed version and a cassette version. I'm thinking he cassette version would be more flexible as far as chainline and also if I decide to go geared. Thoughts?

did u get one of those european bottom bracket adaptors for that schwinn?

White Industry hubs require a lot of money whereas a magic gear requires only a bit of math, I personally would go with a tensioner. A good one will be less than $30, I have an $8 one that has been fine for years now.

Of the wheels that you have pictured I would not use the Shimano 535s because if you pop a spoke on one of your long rides with your wife, the wheel will instantly go out of true. This happened to me but I was only about 30 minutes from my house, thankfully.

did u get one of those european bottom bracket adaptors for that schwinn?

Yeah I found it at a LBS. It's a Mongoose part, it would look less cheesy without the Mongoose logo. Worked like a charm and it allowed me to run a 3 pc crank.

White Industry hubs require a lot of money whereas a magic gear requires only a bit of math, I personally would go with a tensioner. A good one will be less than $30, I have an $8 one that has been fine for years now.

Of the wheels that you have pictured I would not use the Shimano 535s because if you pop a spoke on one of your long rides with your wife, the wheel will instantly go out of true. This happened to me but I was only about 30 minutes from my house, thankfully.

I like the Shimano spoke pattern the best, but I hear you. The wife an I mostly ride within a 10 mile radius of our house, but I hear you it could ruin a good ride.

Ok, looking at the White Ind hubs, they have a single speed version and a cassette version.
I'm thinking he cassette version would be more flexible as far as chainline and also if I decide to go geared. Thoughts?

freewheel, not cassette.

Why is the magic gear ghetto? Seemed cleaner to me. I am trying to stay cheap on this build. The wheels I posted are in the $200 range from Craigslist. Thanks for the advice, keep it coming.

magic ratio is ghetto because you can't adjust for chain slack as the bushings wear. though if you're not doing fixed i guess it's a nonissue.

i don't believe WI makes a eccentric cassette version of their hub. that's kind of what you need. you wouldn't need eccentric with a cassette because the derailleur you're going to use will act as a tensioner.

a tensioner will really just look like a stripped down derailleur. not bad looking, plus you're going to be running two brakes so it's not like that little extra bit is going to kill the clean stripped down look or whatever.

I wouldn't run a cassette, just a spacer kit with one cog. I will probably only run one brake too, don't see a need for two. If you look closely at the Schwinn I built it has a rear disc brake on it. Stops me just fine.

freewheel, not cassette.

You are correct, but that's what they call it on their site.

http://www.whiteind.com/rearhubs/cassettehubs.html

You are correct, but that's what they call it on their site.

http://www.whiteind.com/rearhubs/cassettehubs.html


wrong hubs. these:

http://www.whiteind.com/rearhubs/singlespeedhubs.html

Could I talk you into two brakes? On long descents you'll be happy to have a rear brake to give the front a rest to cool off, and it's always nice to have a way to stop should something happen to one brake.

wrong hubs. these:

http://www.whiteind.com/rearhubs/singlespeedhubs.html

doh

could i talk you into two brakes?
On long descents you'll be happy to have a rear brake to give the front a rest to cool
off, and it's always nice to have a way to stop should something happen to one brake.

+1

I thought you guys ran with no brakes on your fixies? :)

I thought you guys ran with no brakes on your fixies? :)

fixed/free

brakes is the new brakeless

don't be a fakenger, run two brakes on your freewheel'd bike

Yeah, White industries eccentric hubs are the best way to have a vertical dropout frame SS with no tensioner. You can do the magic gear stuff, but you have to play around with it. If you are single speed then it's a good cheap solution.

Oh, and if you are singlespeed road riding, have 2 brakes.

Don't forget about using a half-link to dial in the perfect chain tension.

There's also eccentric BBs around too, but they're probably a bit pricey if you want to keep things on the cheap.

Eccentric BB's are about the frame, not the BB aren't they?

there a a couple eccentric bb's for standard frames.

So wait, why don't you want to use one of those road wheelsets with a tensioner? Building that single eno wheel will cost more than buying a $200 set and a tensioner.

oh yeah, you can get eccentric kits for BB's.

That would make most sense for someone wanting a road wheelset that could later run gears
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnAx-NeWLgM

also, you can run 1/8 chains with a tensioner, so you can utilize your chain ring on your crank.


http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BL407D06-Tektro+R200a+Ergo+Brake+Levers.aspx?sc=FRGL

Magic gear ratios suck, and so do chain tensioners. This bike is going to be an expensive piece of s.h.i.t. How about you spend a few hundred bucks and get yourself a real FG/SS from BD...one thats going to work properly and not look r3tarded. Then you can put gears on this bike and build it up into a bike that is awesome instead of completely dumb.

So wait, why don't you want to use one of those road wheelsets with a tensioner? Building that single eno wheel will cost more than buying a $200 set and a tensioner.

Just trying to keep it clean.

Magic gear ratios suck, and so do chain tensioners. This bike is going to be an expensive piece of s.h.i.t. How about you spend a few hundred bucks and get yourself a real FG/SS from BD...one thats going to work properly and not look r3tarded. Then you can put gears on this bike and build it up into a bike that is awesome instead of completely dumb.

Thanks for your constructive feedback. IMO people look far more r3tarded riding around on a $300 fixie than on something they put effort into building, but hey that's just me.

Thanks for your constructive feedback. IMO people look far more r3tarded riding around on a $300 fixie than on something they put effort into building, but hey that's just me.

You're welcome. Be sure to post your bike in the jackass thread when its finished. Cheers!

I agree that building up your own bike is nice. Your options though at this point are:
Get a new frame with horizontal drops. (they do have carbon fiber ones)
Use a $15 tensioner
Get a $130 eccentric rear hub
Get a $100+ eccentric bb

You choose. You have all the information at this point and it's up to you.

i think hes fine with his frame

You're welcome. Be sure to post your bike in the jackass thread when its finished. Cheers!

you, sir, are the jackass.

I agree that building up your own bike is nice. Your options though at this point are:
Get a new frame with horizontal drops. (they do have carbon fiber ones)
Use a $15 tensioner
Get a $130 eccentric rear hub
Get a $100+ eccentric bb

You choose. You have all the information at this point and it's up to you.

Yep, decisions decisions. I'm not going to start building this bike for three weeks, trying to get my hot rod painted right now, then back to bikes. Obviously horizontal dropouts would be the preferred method, but you know how it goes, I got a smokin deal on this frame so I'm using it.

You're welcome. Be sure to post your bike in the jackass thread when its finished. Cheers!

Wow dude, you are really playing the role of crusty old dick forum veteran huh? Not sure what makes my bike "jackass" but whatever. I'm building what I like, not what you deem to be cool and acceptable on your forum.

and what makes chain tensioners suck?

Wow dude, you are really playing the role of crusty old dick forum veteran huh? Not sure what makes my bike "jackass" but whatever. I'm building what I like, not what you deem to be cool and acceptable on your forum.

Just bustin your balls, man. I just think there are better ways to build up that frame, rather than trying to force it to do something it was not meant to do.

you, sir, are the jackass.

QFT


BF rule...at least one jackass is required per thread.

Just bustin your balls, man. I just think there are better ways to build up that frame, rather than trying to force it to do something it was not meant to do.

Meaning running SS with vertical dropouts? Fill me in on how you would build the bike. I'll admit I'm new to this, that's why I posted this thread.

IMHO, spend the money right the first time. You will be happier. Magic gears are neat but as your leg strength increase through the season (or sucks right after winter) and you want to play with a different ratio.... you are stuck.

ENO wheels are also stronger (because they have less dish) easily flipped since others want to do just what you are, and are really the cleanest approach which is one of your goals. The only + I see of the cassette is that you can buy a cheap cog and spacer kit rather than a $80 WI freesheel and you have better spacing flexibility. Chainline is over-emphasized esp if you are running a 3/32 road chain.

Well, for starters, I'd put some gears on it. Same thing with the wheels you are looking at using. You got a bunch of parts that will build up into a very light, fast road bike. As an SS, you are negating all the advantages of that gear. Thats probably not what you want to hear. FGs and SSs are fun and all, but I think its kind of pointless building them out of stuff like that. If I had that frame, I'd want to use it to its full potential.

I had that frame, I'd want to use it to its full potential. While normally I agree with your posts,... there just are not many purpose built carbon SS/FG frames. Someone will throw out the random tri bike that is both carbon and has horizontal dropouts but the frame geometry is for tri's.

I want to convert my Kestrel 500SCi into a SS once I replace it which hopefully will be sometime soon. Sure it works as a geared bike, but some people want to run nice SS Carbon bikes and apart from the new Trek carbon district I know of no other way other than to convert a nice carbon road frame.

While normally I agree with your posts,... there just are not many purpose built carbon SS/FG frames. Someone will throw out the random tri bike that is both carbon and has horizontal dropouts but the frame geometry is for tri's.

Yep. Seem to me there's actually a gap in the market.

I've been considering a similar project to the OP actually. I was thinking that with one of those generic carbon frames off ebay and some half decent wheels you could easily build a very light SS bike.

Matthew

Thanks for all the opinions, keep em coming.

I'm still leaning towards SS with the ENO hub or an eccentric BB. I know the type of riding I do, and I know that 80 gear inches will get it done. That said, I can't really go on rides with my father in law on his geared Madone either... I told him he has to pick a gear and leave it there if we go on a ride. :) That would be the advantage of buying a cassette type hub too though, could put a cassette on it later.

Yep. Seem to me there's actually a gap in the market.

Matthew

I wouldn't call it a gap. Rather, I'd say there really is no market for it, except for true bonafide track frames, for which there are numerous carbon models. Aside from that, there seems to be very little interest in carbon SS/FG frames for street use. Mostly people are interested in practical low cost aluminum or steel bikes. People willing to spend big money are vastly more interested in vintage or vintage-style lugged frames.
Personally, I ride a carbon road bike, and I think carbon is a great material. But many of its advantages are wasted on a SS/FG setup. For instance, the weight advantages of carbon are really only apparent when climbing, which FG/SS is not suited for anyway. Furthermore, many of the disadvantages of carbon, such as fragility, become more apparent. For a simple FG/SS bike, I'd rather have a robust steel or aluminum frame that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, that I can rough up a bit and not have to worry about damaging.

Having said that, you can certainly build a SS out of a carbon road frame, and I'm sure it will ride nice, but unlike a FG, a SS is not too far off from a geared bike anyway. I just don't see the point of it, when you could build a sweet road bike out of the same frame.

The point for me would be to have an ultra-light bike on the cheap (ish) that I could ride in crappy conditions without worrying about wearing out an expensive drivetrain. Sure, I can do that on my steel fixed but it's not as light or as smooth as even a cheap carbon frame. A high end steel frame could fill this role but it would likely cost more than the carbon option.

When it comes to suitability, I like (within reason) riding my fixed up hills and I think a carbon FG/SS would be great because it could easily be very, very light.

I realise the market wouldn't be terribly large but at the same time, it wouldn't take much effort on the part of a Taiwanese manufacturer to churn out a few of their carbon frames with track ends instead of vertical dropouts.

Matthew

I'm thinking the eccentric BB might be the way to go. The ENO hub requires me to build a wheel, it would be easier to get a set that's already built.

Opinions on the Forward Components eccentric BB? Anyone seen one installed? They don't have any installed pics on their site.

http://www.forwardcomponents.blogspot.com/

Nevermind, I found a review with pics. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=490528

http://gallery.mtbr.com/data/mtbr/500/FCeBB_nondriveside.JPG

I think this would work nicely since my frame has a big fat aluminum housing for the BB that this would cover up.