Foo - Counterfeit items

Without making this P and R material, I'd like to hear your comments in regards to purchasing or selling counterfeit items. I'm not talking about copies or look alikes, but rather items that carry the logo or name of a reputable company.

I think it's theft.

Ummm.... It's wrong?

this is a trick question isn't it?

Do you mean perfect counterfeits or just 'close' (Romex watches...)

Do you mean perfect counterfeits or just 'close' (Romex watches...)

I was thinking of the Soni stereos I saw a report on once...20/20 or 60 minutes.

Do you own and wear a shirt with an image of Bob Marley on it? Beware.

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/20/bob-marley-goods.html?ref=rss

Toronto firm gets up, stands up for Bob Marley trademark rights

Late reggae legend's brand 'could be bigger than Elvis,' CEO says

In the heart of Toronto's financial district, one private equity firm has landed a gig to crack down on counterfeiters using the image of the most famous reggae musician the world has known.

Faced with a global black market of Bob Marley goods, the Jamaican reggae legend's family turned to Hilco Consumer Capital to regain control of the late musician's image.
Marley's relatives entrusted Hilco's Toronto-based CEO Jamie Salter to broker licensing deals and crack down on bootlegs.

In an interview from Miami this week, Cedilla Marley told CBC News her family found Salter a natural fit to protect her father's legacy.
"We heard Canadians do it better," she said with a laugh. "We think Jamie is just a great guy, his whole team.… We've always been a family that goes after gut instincts."
Hilco estimates Marley's image might bring in about $1 billion worldwide every year.
"We feel very strongly that this brand could be bigger than Elvis Presley," Salter said.
Marley's image has been a pot of gold to the counterfeit industry — until now, Salter said. He said there's already been trademark enforcement success in Britain and south of the border.
"Two major retailers in the United States already, they have pulled their goods off the shelves," Salter told CBC News.
'We're not looking at the flea market guy'

Through his life and his music, Marley emerged as an icon of free expression, justice and spirituality. Some have bristled at the prospect of his counterculture legacy as an artist being turned into a brand empire.
But his daughter said fans of the legend believe in his lifestyle, and would want to support the family's efforts.

'It's not going to be something is that is just like, my dad's face is on everything. We're way more creative than that.' —Cedilla Marley, daughter of reggae legend Bob Marley"We try not to make mistakes, and that's why it's taken us this long even to venture out to find someone to help us, because we've always held it close to our hearts," Cedilla Marley said. "It was important to find somebody that would have the same devotion we have to his legacy."
Marley's legacy also is heavily associated with marijuana, but Salter said there was "no interest" in pursuing products linked with its use.
"Even if marijuana was legalized, we've talked about it, would we do anything on the Marley side, and the answer is no," he said.
But a glimpse of head shops and a poster store on a strip in Canada's largest city shows just how extensive the counterfeiting is.
Keenan Marr Tamblyn works behind the counter of the World of Posters store on Toronto's famed Yonge Street, where teens and Bob Marley fans can buy smoking paraphernalia, T-shirts, pictures and plenty of stuff with the musician's image emblazoned on it.
"We have Bob Marley everything, I would say," Tamblyn told CBC News.
Marley's daughter said the family's approach is not aimed at small merchants, but larger bootlegging factories in China and India, as well as the U.S.
"We've always said, 'Come to us, and we'll do a licence and that way, you're legit,'" she said.
"We're not looking at the flea market guy; we're looking at the guy who's printing for the person who's selling in the flea market."
The family is planning a line of products to mark what would have been Marley's 65th birthday next year, as well as a chain of cafés themed with the Marley motto, One Love. "It's not going to be something that is just like, my dad's face is on everything," Marley said. "We're way more creative than that."

True counterfeits are theft.

True counterfeits are theft.

What if its a counterfeit counterfeit? Not theft then? :p

I ordered a bike from BD, does that count?

I sometimes make counterfeit poo.


(Just fulfilling the sex or poo quota for this thread - thank you).

I was at a family reuinion years ago. One of the uncles, an attorney, gave my dad a watch. He represents the Chinese company that makes and imports these knock off/fake Rolexes. This was a legimate - illegal knock off. I didn't know what to say. An attorney? He knows the law right? Not only is it illegal to sell counterfeit products its unethical and immoral. Yet... I know lots of women walking around with fake Gucci or Louis Vuitton bags. So glad I never cared about designer, even fake designer stuff. Not only would I not buy a counterfeit product I also would not buy one that trades on the look of another product, i.e. infringing on trade dress.

Do you mean perfect counterfeits or just 'close' (Romex watches...)

I'm referring to Coach bags with the Coach name and logo on it. Very close to what the real bags look like except with lower grade materials and prices that are a fraction of what the genuine item sells for.

Watches from China with the Rolex name, glass time markers vs diamond and gold colored coating vs. real gold.

Things that are sold with the intent of fooling the public into thinking they got a bargain on a genuine article.

Things that are sold with the intent of fooling the public into thinking they got a bargain on a genuine article.

Siu... you know there is a growing market on people who purposely buy counterfeits - they can brag they own a LV bag but pay half the price...

I had a Chinese friend of mine once tell me that if I ever saw a Chinese person wearing North Face stuff, that it's probably counterfeit.

I'm referring to Coach bags with the Coach name and logo on it. Very close to what the real bags look like except with lower grade materials and prices that are a fraction of what the genuine item sells for.

Watches from China with the Rolex name, glass time markers vs diamond and gold coating vs. real gold.

Things that are sold with the intent of fooling the public into thinking they got a bargain on a genuine article.

My youngest is like a Coach (and just about any other hand bag) expert! :lol: The flea market I go to sells bags and gives you the option of what name you want on it! :lol: no bull****! :lol: They dig your prefered brand name out of a bag and crimp it right onto your bag! :lol: Reason these people get away with it is because the authorities really don't do much, OK, every once in a while they'll bust a small time seller just to make themselves look good, but they let it go for what ever reason, just like the black market DVD's. (cha ching! ;))

I'm referring to Coach bags with the Coach name and logo on it. Very close to what the real bags look like except with lower grade materials and prices that are a fraction of what the genuine item sells for.

Watches from China with the Rolex name, glass time markers vs diamond and gold coating vs. real gold.

Things that are sold with the intent of fooling the public into thinking they got a bargain on a genuine article.

I wonder if one could make a fake rolex for $4k that really looked like a $10k one, with an actual self-winding clockwork mechanism, and sell it for $5k. That seems more deceitful/criminal than selling for $5-$20 a watch with a Rolex label that clearly has a quartz movement.

I wonder if the fake couture items would be as easy to spot as the difference between a $20 watch and $10k watch vs a $5k watch/$10k watch.

I would never pay 10 gran for a watch! :twitchy: One Christmas my brother in law gave me a $300.00 watch and made it a point to let me know the cost! :twitchy: So I asked him if he wanted to buy it for $200.00! :lol: (he didn't think it was funny.)

Siu... you know there is a growing market on people who purposely buy counterfeits - they can brag they own a LV bag but pay half the price...

Indeed. But in terms of quality, I'm sure they don't last as long and are soon tossed into the trash. Of course then they can be the talk of the town every time a NEW bag is spotted on their shoulder.

The brand name manufacturers all claim that counterfeiting harms the consumer. They're wrong. Counterfeits only hurt the maker not the buyer so long as the buyer knows that they are not paying full price for a real/true copy/item.

If the manufacturer would make a cheaper product, people would buy that instead. However, that would "lower" the market price on the higher end product (which costs about the same to produce as the cheap version) and there wouldn't be as much profit margin.

It's all about money, economics, and market share. It's not about protecting the consumer. Never was, never will be.

I wonder if one could make a fake rolex for $4k that really looked like a $10k one, with an actual self-winding clockwork mechanism, and sell it for $5k. That seems more deceitful/criminal than selling for $5-$20 a watch with a Rolex label that clearly has a quartz movement.

I wonder if the fake couture items would be as easy to spot as the difference between a $20 watch and $10k watch vs a $5k watch/$10k watch.

Okay let's kick it down to something not as luxurious. Check this out. Here's a picture of a counterfeit, which looks pretty darn good.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e201/Pwallwin/SNB22670Small.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e201/Pwallwin/SNB22666Small.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e201/Pwallwin/SNB22659Small.jpg


But because I know my Benchmades, I can see that the logo is not right and the lock is wrong for that model number as well as the blade configuration. The liners are of lower quality metal because you can see the scuff marks inside as well as it being an indication of poor fit and finish. The thumb studs are also wrong as well as lack of reversible clip mounts.

Here's an authentic Benchmade. (http://www.benchmade.com/products/525)

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6908/dscf1955te0.jpg

This is a $165 knife that someone will call the first knife a deal if they can get it for $125.

The first one will past muster to those who are new to knives and would like to have a Benchmade.

The brand name manufacturers all claim that counterfeiting harms the consumer. They're wrong. Counterfeits only hurt the maker not the buyer so long as the buyer knows that they are not paying full price for a real/true copy/item.

If the manufacturer would make a cheaper product, people would buy that instead. However, that would "lower" the market price on the higher end product (which costs about the same to produce as the cheap version) and there wouldn't be as much profit margin.

It's all about money, economics, and market share. It's not about protecting the consumer. Never was, never will be.

I don't know, ever time we go to Puerto Rico we stop in at the Coach outlet? in old San Juan, my daughter ALWAYS comes out with more than a few items at very decent prices. :thumb:

I ordered a bike from BD, does that count?

No, Bikes Direct has purchased the rights to manufacture bikes and apply the brand names to them.

No, Bikes Direct has purchased the rights to manufacture bikes and apply the brand names to them.

I was hoping to get a rise out of someone, but a legit answer is nice, too. :)

I wonder if one could make a fake rolex for $4k that really looked like a $10k one, with an actual self-winding clockwork mechanism, and sell it for $5k. That seems more deceitful/criminal than selling for $5-$20 a watch with a Rolex label that clearly has a quartz movement.

I wonder if the fake couture items would be as easy to spot as the difference between a $20 watch and $10k watch vs a $5k watch/$10k watch.Not so easy anymore as "replica" is the goal nowadays. A $100 replica Rolex will actually have parts that interchange with the real thing and require actual Rolex service tools to open. Every last part is replicated with high-precision, even the self-winding mechanism. The days of Rolex are over anyway. I prefer Patek Philippe. There's a reason it's not worth it for counterfeiters to copy.

Indeed. But in terms of quality, I'm sure they don't last as long and are soon tossed into the trash. Of course then they can be the talk of the town every time a NEW bag is spotted on their shoulder.

Sad thing the real designer bags ( or shoes, clothes etc) aren't all that much better. You pay the money for the label, not the quality of the product. Anyone who would spend $800 for a pair of shoes is a fool (in my "humble opinion :p)

Sad thing the real designer bags ( or shoes, clothes etc) aren't all that much better. You pay the money for the label, not the quality of the product. Anyone who would spend $800 for a pair of shoes is a fool (in my "humble opinion :p)

If you look at the knives that I posted on the previous page, there are things in there that I didn't mention because I wasn't positive. For example, the real knife blade is made of 154cm which is a high carbon steel and high corrosion resistant. The lock on it is known to be the strongest lock on the market for folding knives and is a Benchmade exclusive and very hard to replicate. The liners are of high quality steel as well as the scales (handle) for strength.

As far as we know the blade on the fake will rust as soon as soon as it gets wet and scratched. It may be even a highly brittle metal that can chip or simply break in half! The lock is a VERY important feature and if it fails can result in injury. As for the handle? You don't want that breaking on you should you apply force. One can only guess what the internals parts are. May be plastic where steel should be.

My daughter has Coach ( and a few other bags) that are seven years old and still look great :thumb: 'cept for the leather, that looks fantastic! after all the years of use they have darkened up a bit and look soooo good! Like a well used and cared for Brooks saddle! :love: she also has UGG boots that are 9 years old and look like the day she bought them, I'm not saying that higher price means quality, just that quality is out there and you can find it "on the cheap!"

My daughter has Coach ( and a few other bags) that are seven years old and still look great :thumb: 'cept for the leather, that looks fantastic! after all the years of use it has darkened up a bit and looks soooo good! Like a well used and cared for Brooks saddle! :love:

I have three coach bags (I use for business) and several Target purses... all the purses do well and still look good. If you care for them properly even a $35 target purse will hold up. I can't say there is any reason to have a $500 bag really - the Coach bags were all presents from my family.

I have three coach bags (I use for business) and several Target purses... all the purses do well and still look good. If you care for them properly even a $35 target purse will hold up. I can't say there is any reason to have a $500 bag really - the Coach bags were all presents from my family.

I think that getting that $500.00 Coach bag for like $100.00-$150.00 is a pretty good reason to have it. :thumb:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/stumpyspic/coachstore.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/stumpyspic/oldsanjuan.jpg

If it's real.....;)

If it's real.....;)

Pffffft! :p

mv sold me a counterfeit brain. It tasted suspiciously of spleen.

I was wondering where my spleen went? I just thought it left because it didn't love me anymore. :mad:

Coach purse are made in China, and look like they are made of leather scraps, the knockoffs are also made in China, but curiously in China they are labeled as made in America! (and they still look like sewn together scraps) :D I am so glad my wife buys her purses at Ross for cheap (we are cheapskates when it comes to close anyway, besides the REALLY high end clothes don't have visible labels on the outside anyway ;) )

Coach purse are made in China, and look like they are made of leather scraps, the knockoffs are also made in China, but curiously in China they are labeled as made in America! (and they still look like sewn together scraps) :D I am so glad my wife buys her purses at Ross for cheap (we are cheapskates when it comes to close anyway, besides the REALLY high end clothes don't have visible labels on the outside anyway ;) )

Coach purses are/were made in the USA, but I think some Coach purses are also made in China.
I may be wrong about the China part, maybe they are now exclusively made in China? I'm not sure? What I am sure of is they were orig made in the U.S.

No, Bikes Direct has purchased the rights to manufacture bikes and apply the brand names to them.

It's presenting them as bikes just as good as what you can buy at your LBS that qualifies as counterfeiting.

Things that are sold with the intent of fooling the public into thinking they got a bargain on a genuine article.

I bought a fake Breitling once when I was deployed to Turkey. I knew it was fake, the guy selling it knew it was fake, I told everyone it was fake.

Kept decent time and I wore it for a few years until the back coating wore off, exposing the primarily nickel backing. Humans all have a cumulative allergey to nickel (unbeknownst to me at the time) and I got a pretty bad rash up my whole forearm from it. Since I only paid something like $50 for the thing and had used it for several years, it was easy to just toss away with a laugh.

no sir.

I don't like it!

It's presenting them as bikes just as good as what you can buy at your LBS that qualifies as counterfeiting.

Have you ridden one?

And they are available in a LBS. I have a friend who is the manager of the only LBS location that sells them. From what I've seen of the bikes, they're no different from what I could get at any of the other shops in town, just much cheaper in price.

I'm referring to Coach bags with the Coach name and logo on it. Very close to what the real bags look like except with lower grade materials and prices that are a fraction of what the genuine item sells for.
Its basically theft of the intellectual property. I think jail time is more difficult to get, as well as an arrest (typically you'd file a lawsuit, not call the cops?). It seems silly and artificial to want the coach bag for its expensive look but knowingly buy a counterfeit.

My sister is a bag nut. I was with her once when she bought a fake Fendi(?). We went up a freight elevator to a ****ty office and looked through a catalog. She picked out the bag and something else and asked how much. The guy said $250. She said, "$250? But it's a fake!" The guy said, "Yes, but it's a good fake." The strap broke the next day.

Counterfeiting is a shameless practice, with many victims. But the obsession with lower prices will continue to fuel the demand for counterfeit products. If there was an emphasis on quality as opposed to a certain brand name, I think counterfeiting would take a huge hit.

People get kind of blind when it comes to logos - they assume because it has the logo on it, it's the same quality across the board. Manufacturers take advantage of this with outlet stores - what is sold in outlet stores is not the same as what you find in the flagship store, for example. They will manufacture a lower grade specifically for the outlet stores, and the shoppers think they're winning because they're getting a 'bargain'. The item quickly self-destructs, and the consumer writes off the brand completely. So it's not just counterfeiting ruining a brand's image - the companies themselves also have a hand.

I'm not defending the pricing practices in luxury goods retailers - I think people are getting hosed in that area. But with the manufacturing processes we have nowadays, the only way to determine if it's a deal is by knowing the manufacturing process and being able to recognize quality. It's unfortunate, but caveat emptor is the current status quo.