Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - off the shelf low spoke aero wheels?

So im looking for some climbing/ride with roadie wheels. My CandyRim deep setup is stupid heavy, and im looking for a weekend replacement.
What im looking for?
Low Spoke Count
Aero spokes
Mid Deepth rims
Clinchers
budget is like 400 a set

I am not opposed to having prowheelbuilder or customwheel or whatever make them, but i have seriously no clue on what hubs are better than others except for price, or what rim to use (looking at velocity fusion?)
Not going on a steel frame. Going on an aluminum Aero frame, so combined weight savings woudl be great. going KIND OF weight weenie on this one to get as close to 15-16lbs as possible

i woudl greatly appreciate either Help, OR since i cant seem to find the right threads that can help. Thanks in advance guys and gals.

I really doubt bladed spokes are that much of a difference.

open pro to an ultegra low flange road hub, double butted dt spokes for the front. for the rear go open pro to like a dura ace low flange hub if you're doing a track wheel. brass vs alu nipples is something people usually argue about, the weight savings aren't terribly significant with a steel track bike though, so might as well do brass. I did aluminum on my bike though b/c i wanted a color, and they're holding up peachy.

I don't notice any aero benefits of like a deep v or bladed spokes. I feel a difference with my hed jet, but that's because it's like an 80mm deep rim, and what I feel may be more attributed to it's tubularness.

If you don't mind tubular, 16h araya super aeros with hoshi bladed spokes.. or you can try and find 32h super aero clinchers.

didnt read the question, but my answer is aerospoke.

open pros

id rather not try and save money by buying a 200.00 wheelset.
If spending MORE will get be a better wheel (all the reading i have done suggest a MIDLY deep rim is enough of a tradeoff to be worth it) then i am willing to do it.
I average 18mph on the rides, slower on hills, much faster on the downhill, and thats with the heavy wheels i have now. a better, more suitable wheelset will not only allow me to exert less effort, and last longer, but possibly faster on the top end.
so please, serious comments only

KinLin XR300s, IRD Cadence Aero, Velocity Fusion, DT Swiss DT1.1...

Just get a 36 spoke wheel and lace it with half the spokes

boom! low spoke count
http://www.63xc.com/jameslee/fig2.jpg

Go custom...
KinLin XR300s (AKA IRD Cadence Aero)
20-24 hole road front hub of your choice.
24-28 formula or novatec track hub
sapim cxray spokes (or substitute a strongly butted round spoke to save some money)

Speaking from experience, you can build these at or under your budget, and they will be hundreds of grams lighter and just as aero (if not more) than complete track wheelsets, such as Mavic Ellipses, that cost hundreds more. The front road hub is key. A good road hub is typically more than 100 grams lighter than a front track hub.

Just get a 36 spoke wheel and lace it with half the spokes

boom! low spoke count

for the rear, sure. for the front? not even close to reasonable. road hub. done.

also, is that hub coaster brake or a dynamo? if it's a brake, and it sure looks like one, bad call on the spoke count.

off-the-shelf? no, custom handmade.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=539905
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=561075

Go custom...
KinLin XR300s (AKA IRD Cadence Aero)
20-24 hole road front hub of your choice.
24-28 formula or novatec track hub
sapim cxray spokes (or substitute a strongly butted round spoke to save some money)

Speaking from experience, you can build these at or under your budget, and they will be hundreds of grams lighter and just as aero (if not more) than complete track wheelsets, such as Mavic Ellipses, that cost hundreds more. The front road hub is key. A good road hub is typically more than 100 grams lighter than a front track hub.

THAT is the kind of info i was looking for
Now i have a baseline to compare other stuff to.

ANy place you can reccomend to order?

THAT is the kind of info i was looking for
Now i have a baseline to compare other stuff to.

ANy place you can reccomend to order?

I used to order wheelparts from Mike Garcia (www.oddsandendos.com), but it seems like he is no longer reliable, although it might be worth trying to contact him.

Heres a good price on rims...http://fairwheelbikes.com/kinlin-rims-xr300-niobium-p-1216.html

If you want to combine a road front hub with a track rear hub, you should read these threads.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=575710
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=539583

You can buy whatever spokes you want from lots of places..

Good luck!

bf member:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=569408

Edit: forgot you are in Japan.

Just get a 36 spoke wheel and lace it with half the spokes

boom! low spoke count
http://www.63xc.com/jameslee/fig2.jpg

that is the only other 18h crow foot wheel set in the universe.

That American Classic 24h track hub looks nice, $130 though. (http://www.beyondbikes.com/ItemMatrix.asp?ic=22774&GroupCode=PG-2521&MatrixType=2&agent=Froogle&utm_source=Feeds&utm_medium=GoogleProduct&utm_campaign=Frooglehttp:)


http://www.beyondbikes.com/mmBEYONDBIKES/Images/1/large/AS4217.JPG

id rather not try and save money by buying a 200.00 wheelset.
If spending MORE will get be a better wheel (all the reading i have done suggest a MIDLY deep rim is enough of a tradeoff to be worth it) then i am willing to do it.
I average 18mph on the rides, slower on hills, much faster on the downhill, and thats with the heavy wheels i have now. a better, more suitable wheelset will not only allow me to exert less effort, and last longer, but possibly faster on the top end.
so please, serious comments only

tradeoff for...

i mean, if these are meant to be climbing wheels than aero won't really matter at all. go for proven light, strong rims: open pros. I've built velocity aeroheads myself which are similar weight to open pros, quality is a little lower and it builds a light wheel.

you probably won't see any aero advantage until around 40mm rim depth. for your price point that's like B43 and H+son territory, not so light, which is no big for flat land, but if you're climbing you'll want the lighter weight.

really, mavic open pros or velocity aeroheads laced to a low flange front road hub. I don't know what the lightest rear track hubs are though. My iro low flange is pretty light i guess. I would imagine low flange phils or dura ace hubs would be decent too.

Email these guys:

http://airwalkfixed.blogspot.com/2009/01/airwalk-fixed-gear-customize-your-bike.html

Or buy these:

http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1450

they are for riding with road guys. climbing just so happens to be one of hte things they do. Will be used for the long rides/climbing whatever they do on teh weekends since noone else around rides FG/SS and does training rides.
So aero advantage could be used, but at the price of a good 40mm wheel, i will have to settle for s mild aero wheel that still hgives a small advantage over an open pro
id liek to go dura ace hubs, but htey are all 32 hole.

anwyays, the reason i ask about where to have a wheel put together/buy from, is since im in japan, i dont want to buy a hub, and wheel, and not know what spokes i need, then have the shop have to order the spokes since they wont have it (shops here suck for stock) and wiat another 2 weeks for a wheel.

Id rather order it, have it built, then mailed so i can just put tubes and tires and go

okay, i thought you were building it yourself. now i see your title and wonder why i thought that haha.

i don't really think you'll see any aero advantage of say a 30mm rim like a deep v over an open pro. it's just not deep enough (that's what she said) to make up for turbulence around the nipples and whatnot (i'm not even going there). or at least that's what i've heard.

however, people here like bicyclewheelwarehouse.com it seems. I've never ordered from them since i usually build my own. of their track options i like:
open pros: http://bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=194
DTswiss 1.2: http://bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=195

those DT swisses are 30mm like deep v's i think, so probably similar weight (all 30mm rims will probably weigh about the same) but are generally regarded as higher quality. those wheelsets are built with formula hubs, but you can order a front and rear wheel seperatley (just select "no front wheel" from the box, it knocks off like 75 bucks) then go to the road section (http://bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=9), select what you'd like for the front wheel, and pull down in the box the selection for no rear wheel.

email them first about shipping to japan though. but their rims are handbuilt so it sounds like what you're looking for.

I have an APO address since i am USAF, so shipping shouldnt be a problem

But my main thing was i want to keep the spoke count low front and rear. i dont NEED 32 spokes so no need to have the extra weight of the spokes. and staying around hte 20-25 (mid aero) size.

i want to get as weight weenie as possible with the money i can spend. Eventually one i try and start racing next year, ill order a REAL wheelset to be competitive
I hope i am explaining it completely, i have trouble explaining things sometimes.

I dont mind spending the 500.00 total, i just want hte best for the money i am spending ya know?
saving 50 bucks and only spending 450, it doenst matter.
I have hte 500.00 set aside for wheels, so i need to use it lol

basically my rear wheel right now is the weight of a pair of lightweight purpose built wheels. its rediculous. BOMBproof, but dumb for riding with guys that are at all fast

i have a 16 spoke ksyrium elite front with bladed spokes. that ****er is way heavier than my 32 spoke aerohead laced to a low flange iro hub. and that's with straight gauge spokes too (since i'm running twisted spokes). and the ksyrium makes the 20 spoke aksium front i have look weight weenie

my point is, for some ultra low spoke count wheels, actually probably many, the rims are beastly heavy to make up for the loss of strength of more spokes. off the peg i really think those open pros will build some of the lightest possible wheels for your budget and clincher. just use aluminum nipples, double butted spokes, and that road front hub and you're golden.

otherwise you might want to hunt ebay or various classefied forums for a used wheelset. I got my hed jet front for 175 shipped and my hed3 rear (though freehub since it's for my road bike) for $200. then i spend about $100 on tires and glue since they're tubulars. fantastic, super aero wheels that aren't much heavier than my pig ksyriums

$375 Mavic Ellipse on Ebay buy it now. (http://cgi.ebay.com/MAVIC-ELLIPSE-TRACK-WHEELSET-CLINCHER-NEW_W0QQitemZ290366460600QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item439b3092b8)

so then what weight should i be looking at for wheels?
Average in the price range seems ot be 1800-1900 grams, with over 600 dropping to 1500ish grams.

1995g for the ellipse? damn son... guess weight doesn't really matter on the track vs stiffness...

well, just looking at a front wheel, open pro is about 440g, DT revolution spokes about 150g, aluminum nipples about 10g, ultegra road hub is about 140. that builds a ~750g front wheel. a rear formula is about 330g, so that makes the rear about 950g. that's a 1600g wheelset for about $300.

really the most important part to cut weight from is the outside of your wheel, so the rim in this case. rotational inertia is a funcion of mass and radial length. the further from the center of the wheel the mass is, the more effect it will have on rotational inertia. in other words, the heavier it will feel when accelerating or climbing.

Just for reference, the weight of the build I suggested will be between 1500-1580 grams, depending on spoke count and the hubs used.

There IS an aero-benefit to 30 mm rims. Is it as aero as a 58mm carbon rim?...no, but its better than a 19mm Open Pro. Deeper rims also allow you to use fewer spokes, which also improves aerodynamics. For aluminum clinchers, 30mm is a good compromise between weight and depth. Anything deeper than 30mm and the rim starts to become too heavy for an all-rounder road wheelset.

so i think i have it figured out
24H f/r
Kinlin wheels
and cxray spokes

now, how do i know what spoke length i need to get? is there some kind of calculator? Ive never built a wheel before, and i dont intend on starting now, BUT i can get all the parts so the shop down the road can lace them up
and where the hell do i find a 24h track hub
i foudn roads, but the only rear i can find is phil, which is heavy and dumb expensive

You can probably have the shop calculate & order the spokes if you take them the hubs/rims.

and pay twice what i would in the states
its bad enough i pay 80.00 per wheel to haev it laced

so i think i have it figured out
24H f/r
Kinlin wheels
and cxray spokes

now, how do i know what spoke length i need to get? is there some kind of calculator? Ive never built a wheel before, and i dont intend on starting now, BUT i can get all the parts so the shop down the road can lace them up

To calculate spoke length, you need to know.
1. effective rim diameter (ERD), which for the 30mm Kinlin rims is 577mm.
2. the flange diameter (the diameter of the circle made by the spoke holes) of the hubs you choose.
3. the distance of the hub flanges from the midline of the hub (be careful, sometimes its not the same on the right and left side)
3. the number of spokes and lacing pattern.

plug those into a spoke calculator, such as....http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm


and that will give you the required spoke length. The hub specs are usually very easy to find on the web. They are usually posted where the hubs are for sale and/or on the manufacturer's webpage. Any decent LBS that builds wheels should be able to figure out spoke length as well, and its always a good idea to double check your own calculations with someone else's.

Good luck!

i really wish there was an easier way, like tell a shop i want this, this, this and this and them mail me a damn wheel.
stupid intranet

Look around enough and I'm sure you can find someone who can do that. I don't know whats available in Japan, but you might try Psimet.com. He's a regular on the roadforum and has an unblemished reputation. I know he works with Kinlin rims and can probably built you exactly what you want. Its just a question of what sort of hubs he can get.

if you average 18 mph, get a better engine. weight weenie wheels aren't going to change anything.

I just put together a wheelset using www.prowheelbuilder.com and this is what I came up with.

I chose moderately priced components that have as low a weight as possible. With a low spoke count. The hubs are a little pricey, but American Classic are renowned for good quality and are very light and have lots of drilling options. I tried to choose rims that have a good reputation for strength, but are also light, so I went with aeroheads. And to finish off I went with CX Ray bladed spokes for aero.

AMERICAN CLASSIC MIRO 58 BLACK Front HUB
Color: Black
Drillings: 18 $130.00
58 grams

AMERICAN CLASSIC TRACK REAR HUB
Color: Black
Drillings: 24 $163.00
180 grams

VELOCITY AEROHEAD MSW ROAD BLACK RIM
Size: 700c
Color: Black
Drillings: 18 $60.00
405 grams

VELOCITY AEROHEAD MSW ROAD BLACK RIM
Size: 700c
Color: Black
Drillings: 24 $60.00
405 grams

CX RAY BLACK BLADED SPOKES

Manufacturer: Sapim
Weight: 4.35 grams
Price: $3.30

78.3g
104.4g

TOTALS:

Cost: $416.30
Weight: 1,232.6 grams

if you average 18 mph, get a better engine. weight weenie wheels aren't going to change anything.

+1

I average 17+ for 100k to centuries on my beater Trek 400 conversion, with 32 spoke wheels. SON28 to DT RR1.1 with Champion 2.0 spokes up front, IRO high flange fix/fix to 1991 Wolber T410 Alpine with Champion 2.0 in back.
If you want to climb better, save your $400 and work on hill repeats.

if you average 18 mph, get a better engine. weight weenie wheels aren't going to change anything.

Getting a better engine is not the topic of the thread. Furthermore, improving fitness and upgrading wheels are not mutually exclusive. Maybe the OP is doing both...how do you know? An average of 18mph on a very hilly ride with a FG or SS is damn fast. You have no idea what sort of conditions the OP is riding in.
Posts like this betray genuine ignorance, stupidity, and arrogance.

Getting a better engine is not the topic of the thread. Furthermore, improving fitness and upgrading wheels are not mutually exclusive. Maybe the OP is doing both...how do you know? An average of 18mph on a very hilly ride with a FG or SS is damn fast. You have no idea what sort of conditions the OP is riding in.
Posts like this betray genuine ignorance, stupidity, and arrogance.

Clearly you have some extrasensory knowledge of these conditions. My apologies, great Jedi warrior.

Everyone! Defer to the vast knowledge of mihlbach, no matter how annoying he may be, for he has the True Vision and a solution to All Problems.

/thread

mountains. freaking mountains is what i was riding in.
and i think that 18mph for someone that hasnt ridden a bike in 8 or so months, and before that only downhill in the mountains isnt that bad. Im not conditioned for this yet, im not used to it. Can i improve? YES, by a ton. but would i like some lighter wheels so i can keep up a little easier, therefore ride a little longer with the road guys i have to ride with since there arent any FG guys around that want to do fitness rides? Yes i would love some better wheels.

this isnt just about wanting the lightest parts. Its about making the bike lighter, so i can ride a little bit longer since its a small degree easier, increasing the amount of time my heartrate is up, and the workout i get.

everyone! Defer to the vast knowledge of mihlbach, no matter how annoying he may be, for he has the true vision and a solution to all problems.


+1!

If you built up the American Classic rims with H+Son Rims (24h 615g), for deep aero action.

Wheelset will come in at about 1,678.5g. Still pretty lightweight (much less than prebuilt track wheelsets) and deep enough to get blown by side winds. (And hot chicks who can't resist you because of your deep section rims)

if i ran a disk front (which i am debating) i could. but otherwise i want a braking surface

H+son SL42 has braking surface.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/2827663190_14e4280750.jpg?v=0
http://hplusson.com/files/gimgs/6_sl42_v2.jpg


The formation face is the one with no braking surface

http://hplusson.com/files/gimgs/7_formation-face.jpg

http://hplusson.com/files/gimgs/7_whitewheelzoom.jpg

H+son SL42 has braking surface.


615gms! YIKES!

http://www.thearchetypalconnection.com/images/VampireCrossB&W.jpg

Yeah, 200g more than the aero heads, but they are deep. Similar weight to DT Swiss 30mm rims.

Y,
Just wanted to chime in here and say that when I started trying to figure out my next wheel set I scoured this place for days. In the end I ended up with DT Swiss 1.2 rims (20H F&R), CX ray spokes (as per Milbach's advice if I recall correctly), and (I kind of regret it now) Phil Hubs. I too, am in Japan, and I basically brought my hubs and rims to Nalashima Friend (a damn good roadie shop in Harajuku/Shibuya: http://www.nalsimafrend.jp/shop/index.html ) and said I need spokes, so order them and build it. I week later I picked up my new wheel set. I have yet to ride these, but they sure do look nice, and don't feel crazy heavy although they are not particularly light I guess.

How much did they you charge for building them? I am guessing a shop in that location, about ¥8000 a wheel.

Anyone have a picture of H+Son on a scale? I wanted to confirm the weight. they DT Swiss are 585g± 5%. H+Son advertise 615g (no variablity provided).

Yeah, 200g more than the aero heads, but they are deep. Similar weight to DT Swiss 30mm rims.

F that. I'll stick with Niobiom 30mms - 460gms.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49366&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


anywho i really do like how deep hplusson is and compared to b43's they are light. b43s according to velocity is 770g.

Yeah, it's weird how those Weight Weenie forum dudes seem to love the H+Son rims, calling them high quality and laughing at how Tarcksters use deep v's for comparison.

Quote from the thread when they are talking about people in a Fixie forum talking about the rims.

hockinsk wrote:
"Sounds like some of the members there need educating. Expecting lightweight thin-walled very deep section rims to perform like MTB wheels is just stupid logic proven by how they are comparing them to Velocity Deep V which are heavy, medium section thick-walled rims of poor quality, almost the exact opposite type of rim in many ways. Essentially Formation Face is an aero track rim and SL42 is a road/tt rim. Fixies only buy them because of their looks. Fashion never beats funtion in my eyes when it comes to wheels."


Some day I will build a nice wheelset using them Hopefully they will offer 16h rims for the front by then and 20h for the rear.