Road Cycling - Long Ride = we both got sick. what happened?

so heres the lowdown.
I am about 170lbs, he is about 220lbs, he has been training to lose weight and i have been training to gain in the past few months (with diet and resistance training) We started biking about a month ago, our usual rides are up to about 30 miles at 16.5mph average.
Yesterday, we went on a 70 mile ride, the route was good, not too hilly, not too flat. it was 80 deg. fahrenheit out, and sunny. During the ride we both consumed about 6 water-bottles, and I had 8 powerbars, he had 2 powerbars. towards the last quarter of the ride my partner got sick and his performance dropped like a rock. we averaged like 13mph back the rest of the way, he was ready to keel over. He said he felt like he had to vomit but couldnt. When we finally got off our bikes he was shaking. He is still feeling somewhat sick this morning as well. I felt fine, until the 1:30am last night, i woke up and felt like i had to vomit, but coundlt, felt the same way when I woke up this morning at 6:30am went back to sleep for a few hours and im alright now.

What did we do wrong? not enough electrolytes? water? Overtraining?
I assume he didnt eat nearly enough, I believe it takes 1000 calories per hour of hard riding, a powerbar is like 220 calories.

Were both doing the MS150 bike ride this next weekend and are eager to find out what better ways we can prepare ourselves.

maybe the powerbars were bad, those *****es are **** anyway. you should of had somethign way more substantial that that.

How did you both prepare before the ride? You more than doubled your distance. Chances are, he didn't eat enough - I've had that happen to me before. You may have just exhausted yourselves. Equally, the bars may have been bad - did you check the date on them? My LBS is terrible at stocking out-of-date food. I don't know if it would really make you ill, but you never know. Maybe you both ate something bad the night before the ride?

I've switched from eating bars to using gels on long rides. I find it so much easier to squeeze one of those into my mouth and wash it down with a drink than to have to chew on something that usually tastes like crap and is as dry as a bone. I think my body metabolizes it faster too.

He needs to eat more. I'm guessing that your ride totalled around 4 - 5 hours at the speeds you mentioned. If I remember correctly, you need about 50 - 60g of carbs per hour of high-intensity riding. One powerbar generally supplies around 45g. After 5 hours, your friend would have only consumed about 90g... when he actually needed 250g.

Here's what works for me: On longer rides I usually have a snack after an hour, then every 40 minutes. Or I cut the portions in half and eat more frequently. I also don't think it's good idea to make powerbars the only source of energy. If you vary it up a little, you'll get a wider range of nutrients. I usually take a different kind of 'bar' along with the powerbars and alternate between the two.

Replacing lost electrolytes is also essential when you're consuming that much water. I usually take a camelbak filled with water and a waterbottle with a dilluted sport drink. I make sure to take a few sips of the sport drink every 20 minutes or so.

-Chris

What did you eat before the ride? Eating a good meal 1.5-2 hours before the ride is essential. The Powerbars are fine for refueling but you have to start on a full tank.

55/Rad

I stopped reading where you ate 8 power bars in a span of a few hours. I think that is your problem, especially if you have not pooped yet.

Your friend on the other hand, bonked. Eat more before the ride.

How old are you? Sounds like you overdid it and so did your friend (who likely did not eat enough and also bonked). If you are smokers and older, then I would want to make sure these aren't signs of cardiac problems. Did you have any chest or arm pain?

I'm not expert, but I have done my fair share of exersion over longer periods. I would often get cramps and other forms of not so fun stuff after long runs or races. I found that I had not properly hydrated myself before the race and once I started to do that I was fine. It doesn't matter what you do during if you do not make sure your body is ready to battle before. I would guess that food might have something to do with it, but maybe you guys were not properly hydrated. Sounds like you did a good job during, but if you were dehydrated before you left, your body can't keep up, (I usually am peeing mainly clear before I head out). Proper eating before is good too. My old cc coach used to say, "You eat like Sh** you run, (perform), like Sh**". It was probaby a combination of everything, hydration, food and the distance overall. To remedy, make sure that you guys eat well and drink well before you head out. I am no doctor, and am just venturing on a guess here. Not sure what you did beforehand. For all I know, it could have been bad Powerbars.

all the comments are good... 8 powerballs though, wow. that's like at least 2 an hour. your friend was bonking..shoulda given'm one of yours at least? you'd probably be in better shape, or just slightly worse, meanwhile you let your friend suffer? wierd.

sd

djbowen1: the powerbars are good until may05, so that shouldnt have been the problem. as for powerbars sucking generally thats all personal opinion :P

macman: about 1.5 hours before the ride we had eggs and toast, good amounts of both. However I did eat more. again because im trying to gain tons of weight and My friend is trying to lose weight so hes stuck in the mental mode of less is better. The Night before we had Pizza from Dominos. It was our diet "cheat night" We had pizza, hot wings, and cheesy bread. that probably was not a good idea, should have gone with pasta or something, hey? As far as the gels, that is an option i am considering. i hear it from bikers all the time. What are some awesome ones to consider?

enamore22: Yes the ride was somewhere between 4 and 5 hours, I can see the benefits of eating different bars/foods, I jsut had a pile of powerbars and not the time to get anything else. for electrolytes im considering putting some gatorade concentrate in my bottles every time I fill them.

55/Rad: Beforehand meal was mentioned above, in detail, i had 6 jumbo eggs and 4 pieces of toast, he had 3 eggs and 4 pieces of toast.

flat_tire: We are both 19, niether smoke etc. I had no chest or arm pains. Friend says his chest hurt a bit.

methos: something i did notice when i had to urinate, my urine was pretty bright yellow. I had never seen it so bright before (maybe it was just the sun LoL) usually i am pretty close to clear because i make it a point to drink a lot of water, so this did raise a flag to me. I wasnt drinking anything stupid before the ride, all I had was water, so I'm unsure why it was that color.

Shaq-d: I was eating a powerbar every 30-45 minutes, because i had heard you use about 1000cal/hour of riding, that should have been still not enough energy from the powerbars, thought that would be ok. As far as him only having 2, he had more to spare but couldnt eat them because he said he just plain couldnt. stomach upset and all. I definatley wouldve given some up if he needed them. :)



thanks for all the replies and i hope to see more :)

Cycotron:

I've been using powerbar gels recently, as my LBS stocks them (and has some boxes that are NOT out of date!). These ones have carbs and electrolytes.
http://www.powerbar.com/Products/PowerGel/

I've heard that hammergel stuff is good too. They make specific electrolyte caps that may be a good idea:
http://www.e-caps.com/start/index.cfm?div=Getting%20Started&template=start

Cycotron:

I've been using powerbar gels recently, as my LBS stocks them (and has some boxes that are NOT out of date!). These ones have carbs and electrolytes.
http://www.powerbar.com/Products/PowerGel/

I've heard that hammergel stuff is good too. They make specific electrolyte caps that may be a good idea:
http://www.e-caps.com/start/index.cfm?div=Getting%20Started&template=start

I've never seen HammerGel in stores around here (downtown), but I have gotten them from doing various 5K runs and triathlons and they are WAY more tasty than a lot of the gels out there.

I've never seen HammerGel in stores around here (downtown), but I have gotten them from doing various 5K runs and triathlons and they are WAY more tasty than a lot of the gels out there.

I've never seen them on a shelf anywhere either. There's a guy who rides with us on Sunday's sometimes who is sponsored by HammerGel (he's a triathlete and seriously good!). I should ask him if they only make the product available via the website - at least in our area.

I wish I knew where to get them local. They are nowhere near as "snotty" as the other gels.

I take the same approach to 75+ mi bike rides as I do 30mi ones. I typically eat a banana before the ride, try not to have had anything else but water for several hours before. I make sure the last meal was decent but not too filling (ie dinner the nite before, or lunch) and was several hours ago.

On the ride I take GU or Hammergel packets along w/ some grapes. I don't eat powerbars or any bars for that matter, but do take a clif bar along for emergency.

For drinks I take my camelbak filled with plain old water (mostly ice) and I mix a couple bottles of an electrolyte drink up (I like GU2O right now, or HammerGel HEED). In one of the bottles I also mix in Sustained Energy which is also by HammerGel and has long chain carbs. I start with the plain electrolyte bottle and take every 3rd sip from that for the first 1-1.5 hrs...then I switch to the mix bottle and sip from that. Every 2 out of three sips (in approx 5min intervals) is just the plain water.

IMO, if you are doing the MS150 there will be full sag support and rest stops, so you should be fine. I don't usually eat any of the food at the stops, just fill up on ice and water...maybe some fruit if it's there.

I'm doing a 65mi route this Sat (Mad Anthony River Rally in Perrysburg, OH) and will follow the same method as above. There will be a pancake breakfast at the first stop and I might give in to temptation there, but more than likely will not bother.

Main thing IMO you want to do is eat highly digestible foods, so your body doesn't have to redirect energy to your digestive tract. Also you want to keep the bowel movement possibilities low...again not a good thing on long rides. If you stick with fruit and other gels, liquids, etc you should be fine.

Read the following Endurance Athlete's Guide by HammerGel...explains alot IMO.
http://www.e-caps.com/downloads/FH7-04.pdf

My thought was where did you get the water? 6 bottles each means you probably filled up enroute. If you got bad water that could explain your sickness. Otherwise, I agree that your friend Bonked.

Cycotron, if you are only 19 and have not had problems before, then it is unlikely to be a heart issue.

Anyone - Please correct me if I'm wrong in any of this as I'm pretty much a noob... but this is what I've gathered:

You keep mentioning that you burn around 1,000 calories/hour of cycling. Concern yourself more with counting your carb intake rather than caloric intake. Carbs are what keep you going on the bike, while calories can also include fats and protein (which are not as readily available to your body).

Shoot for maintaining an intake of around 50-60g carbs/hour. You're not going to be able to replace the 1,000 calorie/hour on the bike. This is why you eventually burn out. Your body simply can't digest that many calories and maintain any intense exercise.

-Chris

what is Bonked?

Im new

what is Bonked?

Im new

Burned up your Glycogen supplies, and your body just can't replace the energy you need at the rate you need it.

I was thinking the same thing concerning cals vs carbs. You can have a load of fat calories, but your body can't extract them as fast as the calories from carbs. Also fat is much harder to digest than simple carbs, if you notice the first thing in Power Bars is corn syrup. Your digestion slows when you are putting out the power on the bike! I have found that if I'm not very carefull dehydration will catch me before the bonk no matter how much I eat.


Just as an example my coworker and I did an 80 mile ride a few weeks ago. The temps where simular to yours. I weigh 245 and am 41 years old. I ate two large bagles with butter and jam for breakfast before the ride. About 1 hour into the ride I consumed 2 fig newtons, 1.5 hours 2 large orders of french fries, 1 power bar and a Sprite, during this time about 1.5 bottles of water or Gatoraid. During the next 3 hours I consumed about 3 bottles water, 3 more power bars and a large rice chrispy treat. Acording to a calorie counter I still came out about 2000 calories short! We had enough energy to make the last 3 miles home at around 24 mph. The limiting factor was my riding buddies A$$ on his new saddle! At about 60 miles he asked if we could head home/new saddle/.

8 power-bars? I am surprised if you do not get constipated as well.

nice avatar, pessi!

Wow! Well, this Sunday I rode hard for 58 miles solo in part of which was a very hilly area in 80*and sunny, clear blue sky, awsome day for a ride! Averaged 19.2 mph. Had a good breakfast before leaving, on the ride I drank one bottle of Accelerade, one of water munched off and on from a sandwich baggie filled 1/2 way with a combnation of salted nuts and dried fruit, yum. Half way I stopped to rest for about ten min. I only weigh #137, but maybe that's why, I almost threw up just reading about what you two gobbled down. You guys only did 12 miles more! Two miles from home I stopped at a friend's house and she served me 2 big glasses of ice tea and 1 banana. Today (Monday) I feel nothing, like I never was even on a ride. Love it.

so heres the lowdown.
I am about 170lbs, he is about 220lbs, he has been training to lose weight and i have been training to gain in the past few months (with diet and resistance training) We started biking about a month ago, our usual rides are up to about 30 miles at 16.5mph average.
Yesterday, we went on a 70 mile ride, the route was good, not too hilly, not too flat. it was 80 deg. fahrenheit out, and sunny. During the ride we both consumed about 6 water-bottles, and I had 8 powerbars, he had 2 powerbars. towards the last quarter of the ride my partner got sick and his performance dropped like a rock. we averaged like 13mph back the rest of the way, he was ready to keel over. He said he felt like he had to vomit but couldnt. When we finally got off our bikes he was shaking. He is still feeling somewhat sick this morning as well. I felt fine, until the 1:30am last night, i woke up and felt like i had to vomit, but coundlt, felt the same way when I woke up this morning at 6:30am went back to sleep for a few hours and im alright now.

What did we do wrong? not enough electrolytes? water? Overtraining?
I assume he didnt eat nearly enough, I believe it takes 1000 calories per hour of hard riding, a powerbar is like 220 calories.

Were both doing the MS150 bike ride this next weekend and are eager to find out what better ways we can prepare ourselves.


What you probably did wrong was riding twice the distance you are accustomed to with probably little to no reduction in the level of exertion. Your friend ran out of muscle glycogen and possibly was suffering from low blood sugar as well. It sounds like he bonked pretty badly. You stated that all he ate in a 70 mile ride was 2 power bars. This accounts for a drop of blood sugar. A break for a light lunch would have really helped.

Chances are though, that regardless of how much he ate, your friend does not have sufficient glycogen stores for the exertion level you were pushing. Glycogen is not replenished very quickly so you pretty much have to make do with what you start the ride with. On a long ride, you need to reduce the level of effort to conserve glycogen and rely more on fat. It takes some experience to learn how hard you can push on a long ride. Using a heart rate monitor can help, but you still have to learn by experience. Once you deplete your glycogen stores, you have to rely on fat metabolism only which explains why his speed dropped so dramatically. As he becomes more fit, and loses weight, he will both store more glycogen, and burn it more slowly.

It takes time to work up to long distance riding. The general rule of thumb is no more than 10% additional mileage per week.

I think anyone who ate eight Powerbars, even without strenuous exercise, would promptly puke them back up. On a century I typically eat 3 balance bars... and even then I've started to feel a bit quesy...

If you're training to lose weight, take it easy and don't overexert. Drink lots of water and get a heart rate monitor. Keep your heart rate below 80% of your max heart rate if you want to be in the best "fat burning" zone. Staying anaerobic will allow your body to metabolize fat for energy, but stay well hydrated because metabolizing fat takes water. Once you go above that, you go aerobic and your body will want to burn something that metabolizes faster than fat, and that's sugars (simple and complex carbs). Once you run out of energy, either in stored glycogen or carbs, you bonk since you're burning energy faster than can be metabolized from your fat and muscle tissue.

cyclo, chances are you only burn around 600 calories an hour. the pros burn 1000+; you, highly doubtful. there are calorie calculators on the net if you need more info. glad to hear you were tryin to help out your bud :)

sd

If you're training to lose weight, take it easy and don't overexert. Drink lots of water and get a heart rate monitor. Keep your heart rate below 80% of your max heart rate if you want to be in the best "fat burning" zone. Staying anaerobic will allow your body to metabolize fat for energy, but stay well hydrated because metabolizing fat takes water. Once you go above that, you go aerobic and your body will want to burn something that metabolizes faster than fat, and that's sugars (simple and complex carbs). Once you run out of energy, either in stored glycogen or carbs, you bonk since you're burning energy faster than can be metabolized from your fat and muscle tissue.

I don't mean to nit-pick, but since some newbies read this forum, I thought I'd point out that the lower level of exertion is aerobic and the higher level is anaerobic. Otherwise, what you said is dead on.

6 jumbo eggs, toast, 8 powerbars?

Well what the F... were you thinking. I eat a good dinner, not that greasy fatty crap you ate. I get up in the morning have a coffee and go for my group ride. I bring a water bottle with me for rhe ride. We do a fast hilly 140 km. Sometimes I have a plain bagel (no butter, no jam) when I get home if I am really famished. That night I have another healthy dinner and repeat on Sunday.

The rides are 4 hours long. During the week I race on Monday (criterium), rest on Tuesday, and do 45-75 km daily Wednesday-Friday.

I am 41, 5'8" and about 165. Why do you feel the need to eat so bloody much? You just don't need it, no wonder when I visit the States all I see are fat SOB's.

I am 41, 5'8" and about 165. Why do you feel the need to eat so bloody much? You just don't need it, no wonder when I visit the States all I see are fat SOB's.

You ride for 140km (87 miles) on only coffee and a bagel. You're so awesome!!!

6 jumbo eggs, toast, 8 powerbars?

Well what the F... were you thinking. I eat a good dinner, not that greasy fatty crap you ate.


I am 41, 5'8" and about 165. Why do you feel the need to eat so bloody much? You just don't need it, no wonder when I visit the States all I see are fat SOB's.

There goes ewitz again with all his helpful criticism and positive approach to answering questions. :rolleyes:

Children! Relax!

Powerbars=candybars

I use peanut butter and banana sandwich cut in quarters.

Ewitz, get 5 min outside of Toronto and they're just as big if not bigger on Tim's donuts and Ex. Holier-than-thou is uncanadian.
Although 6 eggs and 8 powerbars is ridiculous.

We do a fast hilly 140 km.

You're extremely fond of squeezing this bit of nonsensical triva into almost all of your dim-witted posts. Almost as if you're impressed by it. Why?




I am 41, 5'8" and about 165.


And a complete tool.

I don't mean to nit-pick, but since some newbies read this forum, I thought I'd point out that the lower level of exertion is aerobic and the higher level is anaerobic. Otherwise, what you said is dead on.

Thanks, I couldn't remember which was which.

so heres the lowdown.
I am about 170lbs, he is about 220lbs, he has been training to lose weight and i have been training to gain in the past few months (with diet and resistance training) We started biking about a month ago, our usual rides are up to about 30 miles at 16.5mph average.
Yesterday, we went on a 70 mile ride, the route was good, not too hilly, not too flat. it was 80 deg. fahrenheit out, and sunny. During the ride we both consumed about 6 water-bottles, and I had 8 powerbars, he had 2 powerbars. towards the last quarter of the ride my partner got sick and his performance dropped like a rock. we averaged like 13mph back the rest of the way, he was ready to keel over. He said he felt like he had to vomit but couldnt. When we finally got off our bikes he was shaking. He is still feeling somewhat sick this morning as well. I felt fine, until the 1:30am last night, i woke up and felt like i had to vomit, but coundlt, felt the same way when I woke up this morning at 6:30am went back to sleep for a few hours and im alright now.

What did we do wrong? not enough electrolytes? water? Overtraining?
I assume he didnt eat nearly enough, I believe it takes 1000 calories per hour of hard riding, a powerbar is like 220 calories.

Were both doing the MS150 bike ride this next weekend and are eager to find out what better ways we can prepare ourselves.


I had a Powerbar once in my life about 10 years ago, it took me almost an hour to finish the thing, it was so awful, how you managed to eat 8 of them during a bike ride is already making me feel nauseous.

Anyway, I haven't read the other comments yet, but I imagine that a 70 mile bike ride was way too much for the both of you, especially in 80 degree weather and eating only Powerbars.

I do about four 40 mile bike rides a week and I never use those carb gels or bars, I have a good meal a couple of hours before my workout and bring some Kool-aid in water bottles. I figure I don't need anything like Gu or Cliff Bars since I'm not racing or anything and pace myself pretty well.

yeah.. for me that owuld be WAAAAY too much food... Especially Powerbars that are like eating glue for me... too thick... anyways...

For my rides.. generally 50-70 miles, I eat a regualr dinner the night before, not greasy crap... get up, have a couple pieces of whole wheat toast with some peanut butter, and a glass of gatorade, or some water. Once on the bike, I drink a bottle of Accelerade the first half of the ride. I eat 1 gel about 1/4 way thru. stop for a water reload, and eat a Balance bar at the halfway point. about 3/4 of the way thru the ride I eat another Gel, and then when I get home I have lunch... generally some fruit, and maybe a grilled cheese or something... nothing too heavy. I have yet to bonk, or feel sick.

The only time I ever feel sick is if I try to go either too fast, or too long... it happened more when I started. my first big jump from 35-40 to 60 miles left me a bit drained, but still functional.

jeff

I agree with too much too soon, you have not been riding that long for the effort you are putting into it. Takes a while for the body to get used to your new life style. Increase the length of the rides in smaller chunks so your body won't get any surprises. Some good books out there about eating and training which is a good way to find out what you need to do. Hang in there and before long you will be eating 70 mile rides for lunch.

What are some awesome ones to consider
PowerBar gels are quite good IMHO. Did not like Clif, Gu or Carb Boom. Actually happened across powerBar Gels because someone had lost an unused "Tropical Punch" on a ride (yes, I stopped, picked it up, blew the germs off and continued down the road :) ). YUM YUM YUM! I've since tried Strawberry Banana and Raspberry Cream, both of which were quite good. Lemon-Lime wasn't that great. Since 3 out of 4 PBGels have been good (vs 1 out of 3 with the others), I'm a PBGel man now. Doesn't hurt that Galyans carries them for $.99 :)

If you are only riding 70 miles you should not need to eat if you have had a BIG meal a few hours before you leave. I don't eat unless I am exceeding 90 miles and then have a energy bar (ride slowly for 10 miles after everyone of them) or gel every 50 or so miles. your stomach will hate you if you eat and then ride hard.


8 powerbars during a ride: roflmao

don't worry, you only made an unexpected big jump from 30miles to 70miles, hence the pain

try increasing in 10-15% increments instead of 130%

and, gee wiz, lay off the powerbars, eat some real food

i haven't eaten a powerbar (or any energy bar) in 7 years after eating 2 powerbars and promptly puking them up

The answer is pretty simple. You guys aren't fit enough just yet to go for a 120km ride. If you have only been riding for a month no amount of food and water is going to get you over the line. It's simply too much for the body to cope with.

Try building up to it. 50, 70, 90, 100, 120kms. Not many people would try a 120km ride after one month.



CHEERS.

Mark

I assume he didnt eat nearly enough, I believe it takes 1000 calories per hour of hard riding, a powerbar is like 220 calories.



I agree with what you've already been told...you ate too much, he too little, and you need variety in there. I also keyed in on your caloric estimate. I can't even imagine a ride where you could burn 1000.

I was on a century with my sponsor and another couple of riders and my sponsor gave me some stuff in a can that was like a milkshake that was popular at that time (late 80s) and after drinking it, it sat in my stomach like a lead balloon and my performance suffered.

I probably could have done with a couple of Reese's and some watery Coke lol.

It was the pizza wings and cheesy bread the night before....

Agree that the eating & hydration before the ride is the problem. Focus on lots of carbs and lots of hydration for a couple of days. Certainly the night before and morning of is really important. Stick with low fat and carbs (pasta, rice, chicken (not fried or on pizza). Get a modest amount of protein and fat (which you do need), but not a ton like those six eggs (that sounds a bit crazy to me) - peanuts and peanut butter are good, and boiled (not fried) eggs are probably good in modest quantities.

The night before a long ride like that, i tend to eat grilled chicken and pasta (and maybe a spinach salad). The morning of I'll eat a bagel (no cream cheese) and a banana.

You should be peeing clear before going to bed the night before, and should be sufficiently hydrated that you're getting up in the night to pee some more. Peeing yellow is a BIG red flag that you're not hydrated properly. Alcohol keeps your body from holding its hydration, so I'd avoid drinking the night before a really big ride.

If I were you, I'd get a book about long distance running to cycling and read the chapter on nutrition.

BTW, I eat powerbars (and GU gels) when I ride all the time, but not more than one an hour, and in a century I'd stop for other food too (peanut butter and jelly, bananas, etc.).

I think you should eat something every hour or so on a really long ride.

Lots of good information. You need to eat and drink.

As to cause and effect heavy exercise deppresses your immune system because of the heavy demand exercise places on you vitamin and mineral stores which your immune system also needs. A viral / bacterial infection may have been underway that you just didn't notice because your immune system was dealing with it. The heavy exercise deppressed your immune system enough to llet the infection take over.

Regards, AnthonyG

This post is old enough that they are probably is shape to ride 70 miles now.

I did about 80 miles on Monday. The night before I had grilled tuna and spaghetti. Monday morning I ate a bowl of cereal and a banana. During the ride I ate two more bananas and two granola bars, and drank about 3-4 bottles of water.

Dominos pizza + buffalo wings + eggs + 8 powerbars = bad diet.