Framebuilders - Bob Jackson or Bringheli?

Hey,
I've decided I want an Audax-style lugged steel bike.
I have narrowed it down to a Bob Jackson or a custom by Joe Bringheli.
Any input from the forum?
Thanks
Muttley

Joe is alive and well last I heard. Bob Jackson has been dead for years.

If you read Bob Jackson's warranty you have to pay for shipping back to the UK if there is a warranty issue. Joe may be a bit closer

I got burned by Bob Jackson on a custom frame in 1979 and I'm still pissed

Joe Bringheli is a great guy and I know he stands by his products and is always happy to talk on the phone if you have a question about anything. I don't have any frames from him, but I have some of his tooling and it is all top notch, so I can only assume his frames are the same.

I like Joe and owe a lot to him for helping me early on in my building. I've seen some of his frames up close and while they look fine the Bob Jackson frames I've seen look a notch above in terms of finish. I'd say if you need custom geometry Joe would be the way to go, but if an off the shelf frame fits you the BJ frame is hard to beat.

I bought a new off-the-peg Bob Jackson World Tour frame last winter. I also considered the Audax End-End model but settled on the WT because its geometry suited me better.

The BJ would certainly be less expensive than custom, so a lot depends on your budget. If I had not been limited by budget, I would have bought custom and why not? There are almost always compromises in buying a stock frame. Here are the pros and cons of my experience with BJ:

PROS
- My World Tour was less expensive than just about stock touring frame I could find, only about $600 including shipping from England (altho prices have since gone up due to currency issues).
- I could pick virtually any color or decal combination, and the paint job and decals are excellent quality.
- It only took about 2 months to receive my frame, which is significantly quicker than most customs altho longer than BJ advertises (4 weeks).
- The World Tour has just about all the features you would want on a touring bike - room for larger tires and fenders, mounts for front and rear racks and fenders, 3 bottle mounts, longer chain stays, canti brake mounts, pump peg. The Audax frames are similarly well equipped for their purpose.
- My WT is lighter than other comparable stock touring frames (such as Surly LHT), and lugged steel (Reynolds 631) construction.

CONS
- Bob Jackson is a bit of a pain to deal with direct. They don't post any frame geometry specs on their web site, and it is difficult prying the info out of them.
- My frame had a significantly shorter head tube than the specs they provided me ahead of time. Turns out they gave me the wrong numbers or changed the specs.
- Delivery time took about a month longer than I was told to expect, but still not unreasonable.
- Quality of construction is not on par with most customs, nor would I expect it to be for about 1/3 the price. Eg., Some of the brazing is a little sloppy, seat post binder clamp outdated single bolt style, cable guides on bottom bracket shell not aligned right.

On balance, the BJ off-the-peg frames are still an incredible deal for the money. However, if you've got the money and time, spring for a custom from a reputable builder.

I have about the same experience as tarwheel. Just recieved a custom BJ frame with same geometry as their "Audax-Off the Peg" but different tubing. Getting frame dimensions and pricing was a little more effort than I expected but they answered all my questions by email eventually. Build quality is not quite as good as the best builders and needed a little more frame prep than usual. I had to ream out the brake mounting holes since they weren't drilled cleanly and the bolts didn't fit through. The seatpost lug was poorly mated to the seatube on the inside and needed reaming, the steerer had some sloppy primer drips and paint chips that had to be sanded smooth for the headset parts to fit over and was originally a different color than the one I recieved. Other than the steerer the paint is very well done and alignment and bearing surfaces were all perfect and all bosses and BB shell had good clean threads. I've only been out once so far but the ride is very good. When I ordered the frame they said it would take 5-7 months and it was delivered at the last week of the 7 months promised. The price was very good for a custom being less than half of what most top custom frames would be so the extra work on the frame was worth it and overall I'm pretty happy. Also as tarwheel mentioned if you like the OTP Audax the price is hard to beat with the quality of tubing they use. I had an old BJ with 653 Reynolds tubing, which has been replaced with the 651 on their current Audax, and the ride was very plush and springy (as opposed to soft and noodly on cheaper steel). Very comfortable for long rides. Watch the exchange rates for the British Pound since right now it's only so-so but has been a lot worse and can fluctuate from month to month.

Cranky- How was this a "custom" frame when all that was specified (by you) was the color and type of tubing? Seems they already had your frame in stock and they just switched the color, right?

To the OP- Bringheli would be the way to go.

I had mine made from Reynolds 853 using the same geometry as their Audax Off the Peg since it was exactly what I wanted, so it was charged as a custom frame. Had some other extras added as well but I could have chosen any geometry for the same price. The only choices with the OTP frames are color and threaded or unthreaded steerer and maybe a couple other small details but all the OTP frames come with a set tubeset without an option to substitute so I guess that's how they sell them so cheap. From what I can find is that BJ will build anything you want as long as it's steel so they do all sorts of different types of bikes and don't specialize in any one type of riding. Kind of a 1/2 production line, 1/2 custom business?? As far as a comparison with a Bringheli I have no experience with him but my guess is he's probably a better builder but also more $$ so take your pick.

I have a '99 Bob Jackson with custom dimensions and paint. IIRC, if you want to go full-bore, you can have them build you a Hetchins-style frame with gingerbread lugs and curly stays.

I've had nothing but pleasure riding it, fwiw.