Fifty Plus (50+) - New Components

I'm thinking of changing the Ultegra setup on my Madone to a SRAM Force or maybe even SRAM Red. I'm just doing the shifters and derailers for now since they are compatible with my current cassette and chain ring.

How much difference will I see when moving to the SRAM? Should I go all the way and get the SRAM Red?

My wife has SRAM red on her Orbea Orca and loves it. We made the conversion from a D/A triple to SRAM when she got the Quarq power meter which was on a SRAM 900 crank and she wanted to convert from a triple to a double.

I believe that most pro teams that use Red buy a Force front derailleur with the idea that the titanium Red front der is not strong enough and the weight difference is not worth the possible lost reliability. However, that is old data and possibly the new Red front der is improved.

SRAM Red, and I am not sure about other SRAM offerings, offers adjustable reach on the brakes. For women with smaller hands this is an advantage and the hood design fits her hands better. The brakes work really well not that D/A or Ultegra do not.

The SRAM double tap takes some getting used to. At first, she would overshoot moving the chain to a larger rear gear than she wanted or conversely shift to a smaller rear gear when she wanted an easier gear. Those problems are gone in a few rides. Also, the double tap shifting is easier for women with smaller hands and it takes a lot less force to shift the front der.

THe Red has ceramic bearing in the bottom bracket and in the rear der pulleys. The mechanic on the women's pro team Team Tibco told me he changed the regular bottom bracket bearings on the team bikes to ceramic without telling the women. They all asked him what they did to the bikes that made them faster. Ceramic bottom bracket bearing and in general ceramic bearings make a noticeable difference.

Some people like the Red cassette and some do not. The SRAM drive train with a SRAM chain and red cassette can be noisy. We use the D/A chain and it seems normal to me. The rear red cassette being a solid steel body make a different sound when you change gears than Shimano.

SRAM red used to be the lightest gruppo but Campy may have a slightly lighter version. IMHO, you will not notice much change with respect to weight going from Ultegra to SRAM Red. It will be lighter but that will only add value climbing and the energy saving small. However, lighter, that is reliable, is better.

My wife likes the look and feel of the gruppo and likes it better than D/A. She really likes the Quarq power meter which has made a significant change in the way she trains and has improved her performance dramatically. But it was all good.

Here are a couple of pics of the Orca with the SRAM red gruppo and Quarq power meter.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/Orbea%20Orca/PICT0232.jpg

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/Orbea%20Orca/PICT0233.jpg

Thanks for the detailed report Hermes.:thumb:

I'm not too concerned with a few grams of weight, I'm just looking for sharper, crisper shifts...I guess you could say overall performance.

Thanks for the detailed report Hermes.:thumb:

I'm not too concerned with a few grams of weight, I'm just looking for sharper, crisper shifts...I guess you could say overall performance.

I would suggest finding an LBS that will allow you to test ride SRAM double tap. Some like it and some do not. I had Ultegra on my Madone and D/A on my Cervelo. I have Ultegra on the tandem. I do not get on the tandem and say, boy does that Ultegra suck compared to the D/A on the Cervelo. Ultegra is very nice. D/A is lighter and MAY be a little crisper.

I test rode Campy Chorus and it is definitely crisper / more deliberate than Shimano but NOT as light an action and a lot is what you are used to. I am used to Shimano and I am very good at very fast shifts and I do not miss. It is what I am used to.

Ultimately, it sounds like you want something new. I get that way all the time. Go for it but try before you buy!

This might be worth a read. (http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-1-8-20483-1,00.html)

This might be worth a read. (http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-1-8-20483-1,00.html)

Thanks BD...I'll give that a read when I get some time tonight.

Very interesting article BD! Intriguing comment towards the end about Shimano potentially only making Dura Ace electronic shifters at some point......

Hermes I think you're exactly right on the SRAM-I know some riders that love it and others that just can't get used to the double tap shifting.

I've only ridden SRAM on my TT bike but after giving it an honest try I quickly changed the system out to Dura Ace. In fairness, the SRAM was a mix of Red and Rival--but it just didn't shift as smoothly and quietly as the Shimano I had more experience with. I suspect I was too biased from the start to be a completely fair assesor-and just didn't have the patience to see if it would work for the long haul. However after changing it over to the 10 speed DA I absolutely love it.

The Prince has Campy Super Record 11 and frankly I have been pretty disappointed with how it shifts. After tweaking and tweaking......and also using different very experienced mechanics with Campy equipment........ and waiting for it to "wear in" I've come to the conclusion the Super Record 11 is just going to be tempermental. It reminds me of a Mercedes Benz I used to own that was always needing something done to it .......that fortuntely for me my daughter put in the junkyard long before it died otherwise. I put some of the blame of the 11 speed on the narrower chain and tolerances but I just don't think I'd use it if I were racing and needing to really count on every shift. I continue to be plagued by the occassional dropped chain.....and always seem to have one cog where I really have to back off the chain tension more than normal to get it to slide over. I like the Campy ergo position on the shifters better than any I've used and overall I'm okay riding with it. However I am so glad I didn't pay full price for the system........but if I were doing it again I'd definitely go with Dura Ace even if I had to pay a little more.

The Shimano systems (105's to Dura Ace) I've used have been extremely reliable --from both a durability and a shifting perspective. The shifting is light and sure and almost always exact. I don't recall ever having to make any adjustments to the 9 speed Dura Ace once I got it set up. The 10 speed Dura Ace took a little more attention but still much less that what I would have expected.

I would have to agree that a lot of it is the system you're used to-or what you think the system should be like. It can be a personal choice. Hermes idea of test riding a SRAM system is probably a really good one just to get your own experience and feel for how it works for you.