"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Daily/Weekly Milage base help for aspiring CAT 5...

what is a good daily and weekly milage base for a rider planning to race CAT 5 starting in Feb? im in pretty good shape, and right now I currently run 15 miles a week and ride (easy spinning) about 35 miles a week which needs to pick up if I plan on racing...so as a beginner, what is a milage base that I should set a goal for taking into consideration that I am new to the sport? Thanks

From a fellow newbies perspective I would say at least 100miles/week. That's small enough to be doable in 4 rides, 3 short + a longer one.
I'm sure someone else will chime in with more advice:)

-Sean

The better measure is hours. Then it's how you spend them.

From a fellow newbies perspective I would say at least 100miles/week. That's small enough to be doable in 4 rides, 3 short + a longer one.
I'm sure someone else will chime in with more advice:)

-Sean

sounds good...what cadence should I focus on maintaining while logging these miles??

Exertion is what you need to focus on. Cadence helps you determine where are most efficient if you have a way to determine your efficiency. Get a heart rate meter if you don't want a power meter yet and figure out your HR zones. But a power meter is a whole other world in terms of truth in training.

I trained by HR for a few months, thought I was getting into average Cat 5 territory, then got a powertap. Then I realized I wasn't where I thought I was. But now I have power based goals and measurements instead of basing my training on perceived effort.

Just ride your bike a lot. Your first fitness plateau is so far away there is no point in spending wads of cash to get past it yet.

Aim for 6-10 hrs/week at first, then bump it up a bit. Repeat. Ride fast sometimes, ride slow sometimes. Find a good rider and ride with him, and have him give you pointers. Find some good group rides and jump in. Read botto's sticky.

Read botto's sticky.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=380788

Exertion is what you need to focus on. Cadence helps you determine where are most efficient if you have a way to determine your efficiency. Get a heart rate meter if you don't want a power meter yet and figure out your HR zones. But a power meter is a whole other world in terms of truth in training.

I trained by HR for a few months, thought I was getting into average Cat 5 territory, then got a powertap. Then I realized I wasn't where I thought I was. But now I have power based goals and measurements instead of basing my training on perceived effort.

What is average Cat 5 territory??

The better measure is hours. Then it's how you spend them.

this.

What is average Cat 5 territory??
all cat 5 territory is average.

i mean what are some of the standards to hang in the group? whats an average speed for 40 min in the CAT 5s? what should a person be able to maintain to at least be competitive?

depends.

i mean what are some of the standards to hang in the group? whats an average speed for 40 min in the CAT 5s? what should a person be able to maintain to at least be competitive?

Getting caught up in numbers, averages, speeds etc... won't really help you. Did you read the sticky above ? Find a local club or 2 with group rides. You'll learn more on the road in 1 or 2 rides than you will by trying to achieve a specific average speed. A ride that averages 20 mph, is not 20 mph the entire ride, it's 15 mph, then 25 mph, then 20, then 30. Racing is about intensity, recovery, timing, tactics ...

Follow the advice, then come back with specific questions.

ok, I have been on several group rides...im not that new to riding, I am going to be new to racing...with that being said, I was just trying to figure out the average speed of a CAT 5 peloton, thats all...can anyone assist?

between 19 and 26 mph. (on average)

What is average Cat 5 territory??

For me, being able to hang with my Cat III friends for a while when they're riding hard but not all out. 26-28mph paceline.

Getting caught up in numbers, averages, speeds etc... won't really help you. Did you read the sticky above ? Find a local club or 2 with group rides. You'll learn more on the road in 1 or 2 rides than you will by trying to achieve a specific average speed. A ride that averages 20 mph, is not 20 mph the entire ride, it's 15 mph, then 25 mph, then 20, then 30. Racing is about intensity, recovery, timing, tactics ...

Follow the advice, then come back with specific questions.

This. I got into this sport from triathlon. I could grind along all day at 21-22mph and I thought I was pretty fit. A buddy convinced me to go on one of the local hammerfests. I asked what the average speed was. He said "when I get home my computer says 20 to 21."

No problem, I thought.

Problem I discovered: going from 22 to 27, then from 27 to 33, and your lungs feel like they're going to come out of your throat and you have to recover, but you have to do it at 25 with your wheel a few inches behind the guy in front of you.

Averages are practically meaningless in a race or race training ride. It's all about redlining and recovering.

As Ex said, just ride a lot. Read botto's sticky. Do group rides that challenge you and when they don't, go to the next harder one.

good point!!

I got one response about 100 miles per week, but any input as to how many hours in the saddle??

i recall a while back, somebody wrote something along the lines of, "as long as you do anything that seems like it's 'training,' you'll be improving." if you're at the level of riding 35 miles per week, anything more than that is good. ride lots, said eddy merckx. more hours, and exert yourself.

i think the short end of it , is that if yo uwant to be a bike racer, you will end up riding as much as you possibly can :)

To race with with the 5s, you don't need any particular amount of training. If you are starting from nothing, I'd start off with like 5-7 easy hours a week.

I got one response about 100 miles per week, but any input as to how many hours in the saddle??

Are you married?

Most cat 5 races are in the 30-ish minute range. Sometimes shorter. You should be riding enough to be able to go hard for at least that long.

The stickie is a good reference. It really is. There is no short way around this.

I will say what I always say - You will NEVER be able to "train" hard enough to be "ready" to race before you actually race. Until then you won't even have a concept of the intensity needed. Group rides can simulate it IF they are killer groups and not just a gaggle of fast triathletes doing 20+mph training rides in the country. If they are 1-2 hour long attack fests with periods of high intensity ...then that might be close.

You will never be ready. You will never be prepared. If you can ride in a group and you're not a complete idiot then just pay your money and give it a shot. I have seen way too many people "train" for a year or more because they want to try racing only to show up, race and then go, "wow...that was nothing like I thought it would be."

From a fellow newbies perspective I would say at least 100miles/week. That's small enough to be doable in 4 rides, 3 short + a longer one.
I'm sure someone else will chime in with more advice:)

-Sean

ok, 5 hours if you are married, 15 if you aren't;)

5-7 hrs are fine for a 5. But you don't want to be a 5--you want to be a 4. Cat 4s crits are 45 min-1 hr and road races typically 40-50 miles, so around 7-10 hrs. But you really don't want to be a 4, you want to be a 3. Cat 3 crits are typically 45min-75 min, road races 50-60 miles and therefore you need to train 8-12 hrs quality hours.

...but you really don't want to be a 3--you want to be a 2. Then cat 1 and then the master's pastures.

Welcome to racing!

:)

Just ride your bike a lot. Your first fitness plateau is so far away there is no point in spending wads of cash to get past it yet.

Aim for 6-10 hrs/week at first, then bump it up a bit. Repeat. Ride fast sometimes, ride slow sometimes. Find a good rider and ride with him, and have him give you pointers. Find some good group rides and jump in. Read botto's sticky.

There's your plan. I'll add: work on your paceline/group riding skills as much as you can.

The cat 5 races I've done (4, at the end of this season) averaged 23-24 mph, and were 24-33 miles. I'd be lucky to average 22 mph riding solo on that course for that kind of distance - but I was fast enough to be active in the races & in the mix at the end.

Is racing cross a possibility right now? If so, I'd do that. It will get you used to the protocols of racing, build your bike handling skills, get a good work out, and you will have a blast.

Problem I discovered: going from 22 to 27, then from 27 to 33, and your lungs feel like they're going to come out of your throat and you have to recover, but you have to do it at 25 with your wheel a few inches behind the guy in front of you.

Averages are practically meaningless in a race or race training ride. It's all about redlining and recovering.

This. It doesn't matter if you can average x, if you can't do y you will get dropped. Racing is a series of painful intervals strung together.

Averages are practically meaningless in a race or race training ride. It's all about redlining and recovering.

This is not entirely true. If you can average on your own a greater speed than the whole pack working together, then you can win by going off the front by yourself. And if you can do that, you don't need to be on BF asking questions.:lol:

This is not entirely true. If you can average on your own a greater speed than the whole pack working together, then you can win by going off the front by yourself. And if you can do that, you don't need to be on BF asking questions.:lol:

Ah yes, but the number doesn't mean anything, it only matters that it is higher than everyone else's.

Maybe I missed a reply, but I haven't seen anyone address the "easy spinning" part of his cycling.

When starting off, easy spinning is only reserved for when your legs are too tired to go hard. This can be a recovery day or after a set of intervals.

All other times, when you are on the bike, ride like you're chasing the pack. Make the effort hard enough that you are JUST able to hold that pace for the allotted time and don't back off. The first few months this will mostly just produce sore legs the next day. But you'll see rapid improvements that will help delay being spit out the back when you start your first race.

From Friel's "Cyclist's Training Bible":

Cat 5/Junior: 200-350 hours (annual)
Cat 4: 350-500
Cat 3: 500-700
Cat 1-2: 700-1,000
Pro 800-1,200

Maybe I missed a reply, but I haven't seen anyone address the "easy spinning" part of his cycling.
...
All other times, when you are on the bike, ride like you're chasing the pack. Make the effort hard enough that you are JUST able to hold that pace for the allotted time and don't back off.


This is a quick way to make the first plateau...one that's very tough to get away from. I agree that 'easy spinning' should be kept to a minimum, but If I were going to plan something from the start, I would take the first year and do the vast majority of riding at upper zone 2 HR. The 'hard' stuff would be SST work. All of it would be to train the bodies aerobic systems. The race speed comes from anaerobic work, but building the aerobic base to support the tough anaerobic work takes a long time.

Ride as much and as often as you can. If you're tired, take a day off. Start over. Ride with strong group rides that you will get dropped from, and then ride as hard as you can to keep up as close as you can.

You will learn:
a. your limits/strengths
b. how to listen to your body, when tired, hungry, sore, and more
c. how to ride/race in a group
d. your "riding neighborhood" - this is good so when you want to do structured work later, roads/traffic/lights, etc.. don't become an excuse not to complete a workout.

Then come back next year and consider getting structure.

THIS (http://www.trinewbies.com/tno_generaltri/tno_gtarticle_05.asp) is a good article about base training.

Next, if you plan to actually do well or place in your first cat-5 crit then you will have to do more LT and v02 work before the first race.

At this point, 5-7 hours a week of training is more than enough for cat 5. Of course, this is a lot of training time, and you obviously can't spend them all doing LT or v02 work... it's just too much volume. However that time-frame is great for base work and lower-intensity endurance training (base).

Crit racing is all about LT power and interval recovery. If you actually want to do well or place then you'll want to start working on LT and V02 no less than 2 months before your first race.

5 hours of training a week (not counting the actual racing) is plenty of time to work on LT and v02 max. That's at least 3 hard days of training each week...

Suppose you follow this schedule:

Monday: LT work (1.5 h).
Tuesday LT/v02 work (2 h).
Wednesday: REST
Thursday: v02 work (1.5 h).
Friday: REST
Saturday: REST
Sunday: RACE DAY. (1.5 h, including warm-up).

You have a total of 6.5 hours of total weekly volume.
At this rate, you will need to take a recovery week every 4th week... so 3 weeks of the above, and 1 rest week... then repeat !


Good luck !!

ok, 5 hours if you are married, 15 if you aren't;)

:lol:

But true

well I bought a set of rollers for those bad weather days...but the real reason is for the handling!!

Most cat 5 races are in the 30-ish minute range. Sometimes shorter. You should be riding enough to be able to go hard for at least that long.

The stickie is a good reference. It really is. There is no short way around this.

I will say what I always say - You will NEVER be able to "train" hard enough to be "ready" to race before you actually race. Until then you won't even have a concept of the intensity needed. Group rides can simulate it IF they are killer groups and not just a gaggle of fast triathletes doing 20+mph training rides in the country. If they are 1-2 hour long attack fests with periods of high intensity ...then that might be close.

You will never be ready. You will never be prepared. If you can ride in a group and you're not a complete idiot then just pay your money and give it a shot. I have seen way too many people "train" for a year or more because they want to try racing only to show up, race and then go, "wow...that was nothing like I thought it would be."

2nd this...

fellow newbie to you...intervals, intervals, intervals, if you are feeling happy by the time you finish for training, you did something wrong. i am trying to teach myself to train hard and then those time when i used to slow up and let myself recover i force myself to do another sprint/high cadence move/etc like my life (and ability to hang in the pelaton) depended on it.

I will say what I always say - You will NEVER be able to "train" hard enough to be "ready" to race before you actually race. Until then you won't even have a concept of the intensity needed. Group rides can simulate it IF they are killer groups and not just a gaggle of fast triathletes doing 20+mph training rides in the country. If they are 1-2 hour long attack fests with periods of high intensity ...then that might be close.

You will never be ready. You will never be prepared. If you can ride in a group and you're not a complete idiot then just pay your money and give it a shot. I have seen way too many people "train" for a year or more because they want to try racing only to show up, race and then go, "wow...that was nothing like I thought it would be."

I generally agree with all this, but there are a few guys who have been riding on our faster group rides who did well in their first races. One in particular started coming on our "hammerfest" ride a few months ago and was usually dropped pretty early but kept coming back and getting stronger. He still doesn't make it to the ends (there are three turnarounds), but he did his first cat 5 crit on Sunday and got 10th. I asked him about it and he said "it was easier than this ride". So yeah, it is possible to prepare somewhat BUT like you said, IF they are killer groups. I mean, this ride is practically a race, and the guys pushing the pace are 1s and 2s and a handful of ex-pros.

:lol:

But true

I'm married, have a full-time job and currently train about 15-16 hrs a week. That may go down slightly during the season, but its doable. Hopefully, you marry someone who is an understanding person. My wife doesn't LIKE my bike racing (b/c of the time commitment it requires) but she is willing to not complain (too much) b/c she knows I love doing it. Of course, sometimes I have to attend the odd family event or wedding when there is a big race (Like the State RR championships this year) but I'll do it next year and life will go on. It's all about trade off's. You should be able to train as much as you can without forgetting that you have a SO/family.

I'm married, have a full-time job and currently train about 15-16 hrs a week. That may go down slightly during the season, but its doable. Hopefully, you marry someone who is an understanding person. My wife doesn't LIKE my bike racing (b/c of the time commitment it requires) but she is willing to not complain (too much) b/c she knows I love doing it. Of course, sometimes I have to attend the odd family event or wedding when there is a big race (Like the State RR championships this year) but I'll do it next year and life will go on. It's all about trade off's. You should be able to train as much as you can without forgetting that you have a SO/family.

Yeah, but I prefer to stay married ;) :D

Hey different strokes. But I guarantee you that ain't flyin' in my house. My wife works full time as well and I try to help (at least a little) around the house. My wife needs some time to exercise and do her stuff too. Always school stuff going on with my daughter. When you add that stuff to 50 hours a week for work (conservative with commute), 7 hours a night of sleep (hopefully), fixing meals and eating them etc. there just ain't a whole lot of time left. If I left all of that stuff to my wife (I know some guys who do) I'd be a divorced, less than mediocre, bike racer (I know some of those too - though they are usually a lot less mediocre than me :D).

All that said. I'm EXTREMELY lucky to get more than 8 hours a week in. Last week was a good week. I got almost 10.5 hours in with almost 9 of that on the bike. And that only because I worked a deal with my boss to let me take long lunches a couple times a week while the weather is nice because I need to burn some personal time off before year end or lose it. 6-8 hours is more the norm and about all our household can bear. More power (literally) to those who can find more hours for training. I'm sure I'll be trying to suck your wheels next summer :D.

Yeah, but I prefer to stay married ;) :D

Hey different strokes. But I guarantee you that ain't flyin' in my house. My wife works full time as well and I try to help (at least a little) around the house. My wife needs some time to exercise and do her stuff too. Always school stuff going on with my daughter. When you add that stuff to 50 hours a week for work (conservative with commute), 7 hours a night of sleep (hopefully), fixing meals and eating them etc. there just ain't a whole lot of time left. If I left all of that stuff to my wife (I know some guys who do) I'd be a divorced, less than mediocre, bike racer (I know some of those too - though they are usually a lot less mediocre than me :D).

All that said. I'm EXTREMELY lucky to get more than 8 hours a week in. Last week was a good week. I got almost 10.5 hours in with almost 9 of that on the bike. And that only because I worked a deal with my boss to let me take long lunches a couple times a week while the weather is nice because I need to burn some personal time off before year end or lose it. 6-8 hours is more the norm and about all our household can bear. More power (literally) to those who can find more hours for training. I'm sure I'll be trying to suck your wheels next summer :D.

I hear you... I don't have kids and my wife actually works more hours than I do (although her paycheck doesn't show it). Thus, I pretty much do all the cooking (which has the added benefit of me controlling the diet). I do most of my riding/training in the a.m. before work and we have the evenings together and the weekends (after about 11 am when I get back from long rides) so it works out. Obviously, if we had kids, something would have to change.... but until then....

anyone wanna comment on the rollers purchase? damn, these things are hard!! lol

anyone wanna comment on the rollers purchase? damn, these things are hard!! lol

My comment: I have never used them, so I have no idea. lol

Spend an hour with them and they will no longer be hard. You still have to pay attention, but once you get the hang of it its just like riding outside.

Spend an hour with them and they will no longer be hard. You still have to pay attention, but once you get the hang of it its just like riding outside.

that's pushing it.

I meant in terms of difficulty.

Most cat 5 races are in the 30-ish minute range. Sometimes shorter. You should be riding enough to be able to go hard for at least that long.

"

I don't think I raced a single Cat 5 race that was shorter than 45 minutes. Just saying, crits aren't the only game in town.

I guess I just have to find a way to get more saddle time....thats the bottom line...