Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Brevet Series Plans 2010

Just basing it on miles of brevets ridden isn't really fair, either. Not everyone has equal access to brevet opportunities.

I'm in the SF bay area, where there are no less that 4 RUSA clubs within a few hours' drive (SF, Santa Cruz, Davis, and Santa Rosa). all putting on at lest a full series, and with no date conflicts. If I had sufficient motivation (and endurance), I could do 8000km of official ACP brevets without having to drive more than 2 hours to any of the brevets.

On the other hand, there are riders who have to drive much farther to get to their nearest RUSA club, which might only be putting on a single SR series, so that person would have a very hard time doing any more than 1500km.

Basing it only on distance wouldn't give everyone the same opportunity.

(sorry for driving the thread off topic, but this issues boils my blood)

Well, you make a decent point, except that you don't offer a better solution. My point is that you should have some method of proving your commitment, and moving yourself ahead of less committed riders.



I think Machka, Rowan and others have a very different perspective. They've already finished the ride, so in a sense, they can not be shut out. And, they've dealt with a very poor selection process in the past. Since (maybe) this system is slightly better than past methods, they might see it as an improvement.



I'm a newer rider, and have not been to PBP. This ride drew me into the sport. PBP has been the goal all along, and every other ride has been a way to prepare myself for PBP. I look at the current selection process, and see a possibility that I could NEVER be allowed to take the ride, no matter my level of commitment or ability, because of some lottery system.



A lottery is "fair", in the sense that we might all have the same shot. But is that really the best way to provide access to something that means so much to people? This is a huge target, a bucket list item, for many riders. We may not be too far over 5,000 wanting to ride now. But, mild growth, say 3 or 5% a year, will soon mean shutting out more than half the people who want to ride. If you loose out on the lottery this time around, your chances of ever getting to ride quickly grow dim, assuming some rate of growth in interest.


We should have the foresight to implement a system that addresses future demands, when far more riders will be shut out. A system that rewards rides and miles between PBP's would give the ride more of a "championship" status. And people who are working so hard to get in would know what they could do to improve their chances. It blows my mind that people who are putting in all these miles to qualify are willing to take their chances with a lottery.

But it is NOT a lottery system. I wish it were ... but that's NOT how it is.

And "we" have nothing to do with deciding the selection process. That is decided by the ACP. If you want a voice, get on the board of the ACP in France.

The ACP has decided that for 2011, people can increase their chances of getting into the PBP by riding a 400K in 2010 and thus being able to apply early, on April 15th. There is also some suggestion that those with more randonnee km under their belt will be given priority over those with fewer km under their belt ... should that become an issue when they tally up the applicants who have been able to apply on the April 15th date. But no one knows if that will be an issue or not.

Different countries have come up with different guesses on how it might be handled if there are more than 5000 applicants on April 15th. The US seems to suggest that people just ride as much as possible. Australia is suggesting the same thing but capping it at 2500 km (which really is quite a lot). But the US or Australia or the UK or whatever other countries cannot say if our people do "X,XXX km" we will guarantee them a spot on the PBP. The individual countries do not have the authority to do that.

Go read that link on the RUSA page ... it's all there. Over here in Australia they've sent around similar information which is likely on the Audax Australia website as well. Have a look over the various country's websites to see what they're all saying about it.

You can find a lot of these links on my Links page under Audax/Randonneuring: http://www.machka.net/links.htm

But it is NOT a lottery system. I wish it were ... but that's NOT how it is.

And "we" have nothing to do with deciding the selection process. That is decided by the ACP. If you want a voice, get on the board of the ACP in France...

If the system is not defined beforehand, then what is it?

I say "we" in terms of RUSA; I'm a member, I could at least vote for directors. If ACP says a year from now, the U.S. can have, say 1,200 riders, but 2,500 apply, that is not the time to decide how to decide who gets in. They are either going to judge people on a basis they did not know until it was too late to improve their lot, or go to ping pong balls for those who make the cut-off, right?

I think since before 1999 they've talked limiting entries and they have not done it. Maybe this will be the year, maybe not. I don't see the need to worry about it. Most of the people who say they are going to do it now will bail for one reason or another by the time the ride comes around. I'm just going to go do the rides and not worry about it. Life is too short to sweat it. PBP isn't that great of a ride anyway. ;) I can name a half dozen 1200k's I've done that are way better. The only think PBP has that other rides don't is that special ambiance. It's the grandfather of brevets. It's definitely worth doing at least once but I don't think I'd have a coronary if I missed it. I say just go do the rides and let the chips fall where they will.

If the system is not defined beforehand, then what is it?

I say "we" in terms of RUSA; I'm a member, I could at least vote for directors. If ACP says a year from now, the U.S. can have, say 1,200 riders, but 2,500 apply, that is not the time to decide how to decide who gets in. They are either going to judge people on a basis they did not know until it was too late to improve their lot, or go to ping pong balls for those who make the cut-off, right?

RUSA has no say in the rules of the PBP. The PBP is a French event run by the ACP ... just like the RM1200 is a Canadian event put on by the BC Randonneurs, and the Great Southern is an Australian event put on by Audax Australia.

After the 2010 km total is included in the formula (which you can find on most Randonneuring/Audax club websites), then each country will be given a quota by ACP. I highly doubt it will be much different from the number of people who went to the PBP from each country in 2007 because they were only about 300 people over the proposed limit of 5000 in 2007.

On April 15th, each of the 13 countries who had more than 50 riders (see the 2007 list below) in the PBP will sit down and look at who finished a 400K in 2010 and thus applied for the PBP on that date (or the ACP might do that). If the number of people who finished a 400K in 2010 is below the quota, then everyone who finished the 400K in 2010 and applied for the PBP will be accepted to the PBP .... and then they'll look at those who finished a 300K and applied two weeks later. If, however, there are more than the quota, the next thing they'll look at is number of km of randonneuring events completed. And all the applicants (within each country) will be ranked according to how much they rode. It's quite simple. Do a 400K this year ... and ride lots of events. That's the basis you'll be judged on. That's what it says on the RUSA site ... and it says something similar on the Audax Australia site, only AA is capping the km at 2500.

Here is RUSA's page again: http://www.rusa.org/pbp-2011-entries.html

Now some stats ... from 2003:
http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/EN/index.php?showpage=24

The countries with 50 or more participants:

France 2005
United States (USA) 458
The United Kingdom 346
Italia 214
Germany 195
Denmark 188
Spain 167
Belgium 84
Canada 83
Australia 81
Nederlands 63
Suède 50


According to this page in 2007, there were 3018 non-French and 2294 French http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/EN/index.php?showpage=65
And this one gives the 2007 country breakdown: http://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/pbp/misc-2007/07_stats_country.html (although the number for France appears different from the ACP site)

France (FR) 2239
USA (US) 591
Germany (DE) 370
Italy (IT) 350
United Kingdom (GB) 339
Spain (ES) 194
Denmark (DK) 178
Australia (AU) 125
Belgium (BE) 116
Canada (CA) 110
Japan (JP) 109
Netherlands (NL) 87
Sweden (SE) 85


The French count went from 2005 in 2003 to 2294 (or 2239?) in 2007. So, if they are going to put a cap on things, they might limit the French to 2200 for 2011. Remember, this is a French event. The French get the most spots.

The US was 458 in 2003 and 591 in 2007. Therefore they might cap the US at 550.

Canada went from 83 to 110 ... so maybe they'll cap Canada at 100.

Australia went from 81 to 125 ... so they might make the cap 110.

We won't know that till a year from now, but it'll probably be something like that.

So get out there and do at least 2500 km of randonneuring events (i.e. a SR series and a 1000K) and you should be fine.

I think since before 1999 they've talked limiting entries and they have not done it. Maybe this will be the year, maybe not. I don't see the need to worry about it. Most of the people who say they are going to do it now will bail for one reason or another by the time the ride comes around. I'm just going to go do the rides and not worry about it. Life is too short to sweat it. PBP isn't that great of a ride anyway. ;) I can name a half dozen 1200k's I've done that are way better. The only think PBP has that other rides don't is that special ambiance. It's the grandfather of brevets. It's definitely worth doing at least once but I don't think I'd have a coronary if I missed it. I say just go do the rides and let the chips fall where they will.

+1

If we get to the PBP we get to it ... I'm eyeballing several other interesting-looking 1000K rides, and possibly even 1200K rides. I'll see how the recovery process goes this year. :)

+1

If we get to the PBP we get to it ... I'm eyeballing several other interesting-looking 1000K rides, and possibly even 1200K rides. I'll see how the recovery process goes this year. :)

+2. It's my goal for 2011, as well. I finished 2007 in 88 hrs and want to go back when the weather is (hopefully) better. Still, I'm not gonna fret for the next two years about it. I'm just goint to ride my ride and see what happens. My big goal for 2010 is a 1000K so I can finally get that R-5000!

Tcchap: you may be close enough to join in a ride or two with the Pittsburgh group:

<http://www.jameslogan.me/pittsburghrandonneurs.htm>

I have their rides penciled in, anyways.

To the OP, I plan to ride my first brevet in 2010, most likely in Ohio as well. I joined RUSA just after October this year. I'll start at 200k and see how much the longer distances interest me. Honestly, all the talk here about rules and quotas is a turn-off. Hopefully that's more about getting into PBP than anything else. If randonneuring doesn't turn out to be what I'm looking for, I'll probably turn to more touring.

It's a little bit further to St. Louis, but I'll look at their schedule as well. The Kentucky club doesn't seem to have anything scheduled yet.

To the OP, I plan to ride my first brevet in 2010, most likely in Ohio as well. I joined RUSA just after October this year. I'll start at 200k and see how much the longer distances interest me. Honestly, all the talk here about rules and quotas is a turn-off. Hopefully that's more about getting into PBP than anything else. If randonneuring doesn't turn out to be what I'm looking for, I'll probably turn to more touring.

It's a little bit further to St. Louis, but I'll look at their schedule as well. The Kentucky club doesn't seem to have anything scheduled yet.

The "rules and quotas" we've been discussing here have to do with the PBP. There are, however rules for all the brevets ... and quotas for some of the longer randonnees. The rules are basically the same across the world (with minor variations) but the quotas differ by event.

I got as far as 400K this year before injury, money, and schedule cut me off from the full SR series. 2010's going to be my first SR year.

I have a road bike that I was gradually turning into a randonneuring bike before the economy bonked. Hopefully I can spend another $400 or so before the 2010 season.

It was my stated goal for 2007 to complete an SR, 2x DNF's in 200s pretty much paid to that. Getting knocked off my bike at the end of 2007 and suffering a fractured vertebra didn't do wonders for the start of the 2008 either. Nor did the 3 months it took to get replacement parts for my Bachetta (to be fair, not the fault of Bachetta more the fault of their UK distributor). Also got side-tracked with a new girlfriend in 2008 :) but managed only another DNF in a 200. On the plus side, each of those DNFs was at least getting closer to the finish!

2009 I was busy emigrating from the UK to Austria, but I've entered an SR series in Bavaria in 2010. The only real downside to this move is that I only have access to about 12 audaxes a year (4 in Upper Austria, 4 each in North and South Bavaria) and they're all clustered together at the beginning of the year so I pretty much get one shot an SR.

Probably will have to take next year off from LD riding. Had an injury this year, have not quite recovered yet. Next year will be a rebuilding year....
I rode 200K, 300K, and 400K with the Ohio Randoneurs, good bunch to ride with, all skill levels. Was going to do the 600K until knee and leg problems started showing up.

..., 2x DNF's in 200s pretty much paid to that. ... but managed only another DNF in a 200. ...

This begs the question, why are you DNFing 200k's? Time, mechanicals...?

This begs the question, why are you DNFing 200k's? Time, mechanicals...?

The 200 I DNF'd because I was grinding my legs in a recumbent trike and at about 100km my left knee decided it had enough. The 2nd DNF was, IIRC, time related - I realised I was going to have to average 15kmh for about 6kmh uphill on a recumbent, and I was having trouble averaging that on the flat leading up to the hill. So maybe chalk that one up to lack of belief too? The 3rd DNF was a nice permanent on a fixie, and all was going well until the 2nd control at ~1km. I had a fraction over 45 minutes in hand, when the road went very vertical and I had to start walking. Arrival at the 3rd control occured just too late. So 1x injury and 2x time.

On the plus side, I'm now a lot better prepared. Instead of living in the incredibly flat Vale of York in the UK, I'm living in the Austrian Alps ... and I've discovered I like climbing! I also have a turbo trainer, so intervals are on the agenda!

It's a little bit further to St. Louis, but I'll look at their schedule as well. The Kentucky club doesn't seem to have anything scheduled yet.

The Louisville Bicycle Club has several currently listed on the RUSA site for next season. 4-200's, 2-300's, one each 400 and 600. I'm hoping to ride at least a few of them, if not a whole series.

...On the plus side, I'm now a lot better prepared. Instead of living in the incredibly flat Vale of York in the UK, I'm living in the Austrian Alps ... and I've discovered I like climbing! I also have a turbo trainer, so intervals are on the agenda!

The intervals and trainer will help. The alps will help as well. : ) The area around York is pretty flat. I've done a fair amount of riding in the Scottish highlands around Inverness. There is some good climbing around there. That would have been a bit of a commute from York though. ;)