Winter Cycling - Realistic Studded Tire Advice

I live in the Midwest. We get ice, but it generally doesn't stick around. However, I commute in the morning, so if there's ice on the road, I'm probably going to be on it. The problem is that we'll get ice, and then we won't have any for the next week, etc.

Should I just put on the studded tires after the first ice and leave them on?

How harmful is it to the studs to ride on them when there is no ice?

Is the best strategy to have two wheel sets?

How do you all handle this situation?

Thanks.

I normally only run a front stud and keep this tyre mounted ot it's own wheel so I can swap it in and out and between several bikes.

The studs are offset so do not interfere with straight line riding when it is dry... and dry pavement will cause the studs to wear out much faster.

I just put mine on at the beginning of winter and leave them on all winter. I personally don't wish to deal with the hassle of changing out my wheels every other day or so.
Starting my second year on my Nokians. I haven't noticed any discernable wear on the carbide studs.

Where do you live in the midwest? I live in the midwest, but here in Minnesota ice sticks around forever. :-)

My local bike shop claimed that using 2 different rear wheels might be an issue as the cogs in the back would have different rates of wear, and a worn chain would wear into a non-worn cog much quicker than than somewhat-worn one it started on.

I handle this by having 2 bikes. I have a dedicated winter bike that always has studs, and my regular summer bike with regular tires.

Studded tires with carbide studs hold up well with regular bare pavement use.

Even though I own 2 bikes (well...more actually, but that's what we'll count for this conversation :-)) I actually start riding the one with studs when it starts to reach freezing temps outside, then ride it all winter, not switching back until late spring. I've run into ice pretty late into spring, and was glad to have my studs. I remember last year I biked completely across town and didn't run into any snow and was thinking "Jeez, I should have used my other bike without studs!". 2 miles from my destination I hit some ice on the bike path where the path was on the north side of a wall (protecting it from the sun). I almost went down in the slush *with* studs, because it was so unexpected. When I hit the ice I regained my balance - because of the studs. (it was at night, my lights are pretty good but obviously not quite good enough to spot all kinds of ice)

Where do you live in the midwest? I live in the midwest, but here in Minnesota ice sticks around forever. :-)

My local bike shop claimed that using 2 different rear wheels might be an issue as the cogs in the back would have different rates of wear, and a worn chain would wear into a non-worn cog much quicker than than somewhat-worn one it started on.

I handle this by having 2 bikes. I have a dedicated winter bike that always has studs, and my regular summer bike with regular tires.

Studded tires with carbide studs hold up well with regular bare pavement use.

Even though I own 2 bikes (well...more actually, but that's what we'll count for this conversation :-)) I actually start riding the one with studs when it starts to reach freezing temps outside, then ride it all winter, not switching back until late spring. I've run into ice pretty late into spring, and was glad to have my studs. I remember last year I biked completely across town and didn't run into any snow and was thinking "Jeez, I should have used my other bike without studs!". 2 miles from my destination I hit some ice on the bike path where the path was on the north side of a wall (protecting it from the sun). I almost went down in the slush *with* studs, because it was so unexpected. When I hit the ice I regained my balance - because of the studs. (it was at night, my lights are pretty good but obviously not quite good enough to spot all kinds of ice)

I agree with the above, though on really dry days I do ride my road bike without the studded tires. I would add that if ice only, without much snow are your usual conditions, the Schwalbe Marathons are the concensus choice because they are reputed to have the lowest rolling resistance. I used my first pair last year and I was totally satisfied, even on my worst snow day with about four unplowed inches.

One other useful tip I read is that one should think of ridinfg with studded tires as if walking on sanded ice; good but not perfect traction.

Where do you live in the midwest? I live in the midwest, but here in Minnesota ice sticks around forever. :-)

My local bike shop claimed that using 2 different rear wheels might be an issue as the cogs in the back would have different rates of wear, and a worn chain would wear into a non-worn cog much quicker than than somewhat-worn one it started on.

I handle this by having 2 bikes. I have a dedicated winter bike that always has studs, and my regular summer bike with regular tires.

Studded tires with carbide studs hold up well with regular bare pavement use.

Even though I own 2 bikes (well...more actually, but that's what we'll count for this conversation :-)) I actually start riding the one with studs when it starts to reach freezing temps outside, then ride it all winter, not switching back until late spring. I've run into ice pretty late into spring, and was glad to have my studs. I remember last year I biked completely across town and didn't run into any snow and was thinking "Jeez, I should have used my other bike without studs!". 2 miles from my destination I hit some ice on the bike path where the path was on the north side of a wall (protecting it from the sun). I almost went down in the slush *with* studs, because it was so unexpected. When I hit the ice I regained my balance - because of the studs. (it was at night, my lights are pretty good but obviously not quite good enough to spot all kinds of ice)

I agree with the above, though on really dry days here in Boston I do ride my road bike without the studded tires. I would add that if ice only, without much snow are your usual conditions, the Schwalbe Marathons are the concensus choice because they are reputed to have the lowest rolling resistance. I used my first pair last year and I was totally satisfied, even on my worst snow day with about four unplowed inches.

One other useful tip I read is that one should think of riding with studded tires as if walking on sanded ice; good but not perfect traction.

I run three bikes through the winter:

I have a longbike for utilitarian riding, my fixed mtb that for apocolyptic conditions, and my hybrid which is great for those cold dry spells we get and early / late winter when it gets really wet and sloppy but when one also wants to make better time. The narrower tyres on the hybrid also cut through slush very well.

The longbike is one of the best winter rides I have... it is very comfortable and stable due to it's extended wheelbase and the weight balance is nearly perfect. I never used studs on this bike last winter and rode thorough some nasty weather with no worries at all.

The problem is that we'll get ice, and then we won't have any for the next week, etc.

Should I just put on the studded tires after the first ice and leave them on?

How harmful is it to the studs to ride on them when there is no ice?

Is the best strategy to have two wheel sets?

How do you all handle this situation?

It's more a question of personal style than anything else. The best strategy is what works for you.

Lots of people put 'em on and leave 'em on. Some change tires, some change wheels and some change bikes.

If you get decent tires with carbide studs (not plain steel), riding them dry won't hurt them.

My first winter I changed tires with the weather. That got old.

My second and third winters I used two wheelsets. My second set was identical to the first, except that the set with the snow tires had stainless-steel brake rotors instead of plain steel, and I used a 16-27 cassette on it instead of the 12-23 on the set with road tires. This worked really well and is my preferred method. (Bearing in mind its a strategy that fits my personal style best. YMMV.)

I just got a really, really nice set of wheels that includes a dynamo hub to run some more lights. Given the cost, I won't be buying a second identical wheelset for a while, but that's my goal. Maybe for next year.

I'm not sure yet how I'm going to handle it for this year. I think I'll be using a combination of changing tires and changing bikes. Changing wheels is a non-starter because then only half my lights will work.

I also found that with disc brakes, unless the hubs are identical and the bearings adjusted the same, I had to adjust the brakes with every wheel change because the rotor position would vary. (Never had to change adjust the RD, despite the differences in cassettes.) This is why, for me, a second wheelset must be identical. Rim brakes may not be quite so touchy--I wouldn't know.

I've been using Nokian Mount & Ground for two winters and they've been absolutely great. The first 1/2 mile of the commute is on pavement (on a good day) and the rest is on a poorly plowed sidewalk that is either covered in ice, snow, or both (last year it was covered in a thick layer of rough ice all winter):

http://photos-snc1.fbcdn.net/v2315/89/43/1561942119/n1561942119_30159235_526.jpg

In these two years, I've never slid on ice, and only had the rear tire start to spin on steep climbs if I pedaled hard. I still have all my carbide studs on all four tires (two for me, two for my wife) and they're still all sharp as heck. The other thing I love about studded snow tires, is that their tread design is much better at both gaining traction in deeps wet snow, and keeping the snow from balling up in the treads.

Oh, and one other point, Nokian actually recommends riding the tires on pavement for 30 miles before using them as winter tires. I think this is supposed to help expose the carbide steel and make the studs nice and sharp. So, if anything pavement riding improves the condition of the studs, as long as you're using good quality tires.

My Trek has two wheelsets... when I swap to the winter / cross wheels I also swap the cassette over... the brakes need a very small adjustment as the winter rims are a few mm wider.

All in all it takes less than 15 minutes.

I do the multiple-wheelset thing. Takes about 30 seconds to swap out a wheel with
a quick-release axle and disc brakes, even wearing ski gloves.

I just leave 'em all winter. I'm not going to go monkey around in a cold garage to save 2 minutes on my commute. Besides, if it's below freezing there's usually ice...

Is the best strategy to have two wheel sets?

Yes.

The best solution is obviously 2 bikes. That's my solution anyway. :)

6 total but only 2 used for commuting.

I also put them on the designated "winter bike" and leave them on. If we have such an extended warm spell that I'm sure there's no shadow-frost or frozen snowbank-melt to worry about, I can always grab my Soma road-commuting bike. But my present commute's rather short, and topping the tires off on the Soma would negate the time savings right there, so hey.

I live in the Midwest. We get ice, but it generally doesn't stick around. However, I commute in the morning, so if there's ice on the road, I'm probably going to be on it. The problem is that we'll get ice, and then we won't have any for the next week, etc.

Should I just put on the studded tires after the first ice and leave them on?

How harmful is it to the studs to ride on them when there is no ice?

Is the best strategy to have two wheel sets?

How do you all handle this situation?

Thanks.


I found this website by accident yesterday - and until then I didn't even know what studded tires were.
Here's the website http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp
And the reason I am telling you about it is because it answers all of the questions you have oh-so-well. I am was really impressed with the site and think it will be useful to you and anyone else with similar questions.

The most useful info I found closer to the bottom of the page; here is an answer from the FAQs -

"Q: Most days in winter there's no ice on the roads. Should I swap out the studded tires for regular tires when I know there won't be ice? Won't my studs last longer if I don't ride them on clear pavement?

A: No. You should put the studded tires on in the late fall and leave them on all winter. If the studs were made of steel, you would need to be concerned about wear. But the tires I sell do not have steel studs. Our carbide studs last as long as the rubber tire itself, so there's no need to worry about stud wear. And, you never know when water might find its way onto the road surface during the day, only to freeze after the sun goes down and you have to ride home from work. It's best to be safe. Leave your studded tires on all winter. Sure, they're a little heavier, and you can hear the studs chattering on the pavement. That's the price of added safety."

Hope this is useful, though probably more than you ever wanted to know about studded tires. :-)

Awesome. Thank you all so much for your help and advice!

I found this website by accident yesterday - and until then I didn't even know what studded tires were....It's best to be safe. Leave your studded tires on all winter. Sure, they're a little heavier, and you can hear the studs chattering on the pavement. That's the price of added safety."

Hope this is useful, though probably more than you ever wanted to know about studded tires. :-)

That site indeed was the most helpful when I was deciding on studs last year. I posted previously on this thread:


...I would add that if ice only, without much snow are your usual conditions, the Schwalbe Marathons are the concensus choice because they are reputed to have the lowest rolling resistance....

The noise is not that loud, and is actually reassuring to me. One subscriber, Noteon IIRC, described it as "electronic Rice Krispies."

That's what you listen to music for, to cover the noise of the studs. ;)

Schwalbe Ice Spiker is what I use. For four winter seasons I have used the same set of tires riding on dry snow, wet snow, packed snow, frozen snow, polluted snow, bare ice, snow coated ice, gravel coated ice, wet ice, gravel coated tarmac, bare tarmac, or any mixture of those. No studs are lost, and they are still sharp. I guess the tires have rolled about 1000-1500 km.

I decided to go with the 26" Nokian Mount and Ground W160s, and I think I'm going to leave them on all winter even though they'll be seeing lots of bare pavement. They were in my price range, so I hope they get the job done. I'll let you all know how it goes.

I'm a bit late to the party. I too have a two bike setup for the same exact reasons mentioned already, it's easier to decide in the morning which bike to grab. Carbide studs aren't so sensitive to bare pavement riding, that allows me to err on the safe side. As per Nokian the 30 mile / 50 km "break in" period is recommended to make sure all studs are properly seated in the tyre.

There's no need for earphones - the sound of studs is pure music. :beer:

--J

I decided to go with the 26" Nokian Mount and Ground W160s, and I think I'm going to leave them on all winter even though they'll be seeing lots of bare pavement. They were in my price range, so I hope they get the job done. I'll let you all know how it goes.

That's a good choice! :-)

If you decide later you're willing to spend more money for a little less rolling resistance, I would second the other guys opinion that the Schwalbe Marathon Winter's have the lowest rolling resistance of any studded tire I'm aware of. I'm not trying to tell you to change your mind, they cost twice as much and it's probably not *that* much different than the Mount and Ground's or the W106's, but I wanted to mention it (I believe this from some personal experience, and reading the forums).

Also, if there's no snow or ice I've heard it helps to put more pressure in the tire, then when there's more snow and ice reduce the psi. I know it works with the Schwalbe's, I've heard it might work with the Mount and Ground's.

Have fun! :-)

I put my studded tires one when it looks like we'll get our 1st snow. Shockingly we've had ZERO snow here in the Buffalo Snow belt so far this year. Normally we'd have seen at least some sloppy wet stuff by now. As I got a flat last weekend I took the opportunity to put the studded tires back on for the season. They will be on till at least March. Since we get some pretty good snow fall around here I need the W106 tires. they have deeper tread than the Schwalbe studded tires. In your case look for a Winter tire that has lower rolling resistance as a trade-off for less ability to handle deep snow. There used to be a set of Nokia A10 tires available. Those were still carbite studded, but with significantly lower rolling resistance, but at the expense of not being a good deep snow tire.

Happy riding,
André

Last winter, it was above freezing for like 5 days in a row, even at night. All the snow was gone, just a few puddles. So I ride to work on my road bike with commuter tires one morning. It was glorious to be off the studs, until I found the very last patch of ice in the county. I went down hard, and broke my thumb on top of road rash.

What I thought was just a shallow puddle turned out to be a slightly deeper puddle that had accumulated because some un melted ice underneath prevented drainage. I realized what was up as soon as I entered the puddle, and had only about 2 feet to go to dry pavement when I crashed. Dark. Pain. Lying in a ice water puddle. Now I use Nokian A10's for those supposedly ice free days, and don't put on the regular tires until spring. A seperate bike has Nokian 240's for the nastier winter days.

I've been using Nokian Mount & Ground for two winters and they've been absolutely great. The first 1/2 mile of the commute is on pavement (on a good day) and the rest is on a poorly plowed sidewalk that is either covered in ice, snow, or both (last year it was covered in a thick layer of rough ice all winter):

http://photos-snc1.fbcdn.net/v2315/89/43/1561942119/n1561942119_30159235_526.jpg

In these two years, I've never slid on ice, and only had the rear tire start to spin on steep climbs if I pedaled hard. I still have all my carbide studs on all four tires (two for me, two for my wife) and they're still all sharp as heck. The other thing I love about studded snow tires, is that their tread design is much better at both gaining traction in deeps wet snow, and keeping the snow from balling up in the treads.

I have to agree completely. In the Denver suburbs our neighborhoods are rarely plowed so you run into a lot of rutting and slushly conditions. I actually look for the smooth ice running my Mount & Grounds because it is so much easier to navigate.

I'm in the dedicated-winter-bike category, run a simple SS rigid MTB. Because we get nice warm streches through the winter I switch back and forth between my summer bike (Surly LHT) and the 'ice bike.'

Studded tires are cheaper than the ER, I know, I've done both...

There are many ways that work. I leave the studded tires on one bike and just switch bikes.

Oh, and one other point, Nokian actually recommends riding the tires on pavement for 30 miles before using them as winter tires. I think this is supposed to help expose the carbide steel and make the studs nice and sharp. So, if anything pavement riding improves the condition of the studs, as long as you're using good quality tires.
All studded tires want you to do this. I helps to seat the studs before you start putting weird stresses on the studs.

I'm in Lincoln, NE. I bought a second wheelset, second of the exact same cassette, and I switch wheels on the slick days. I probably run studs about one in four days during the winter.

It's an expensive solution, but it's nice. Especially since my studded tires suck so badly.

I've had a chance to use my studs recently and I love em. I am still a little nervous descending hills on asphalt though. I won't let myself pick up too much speed, probably wise.

My method is to use 2 bikes. Unfortunately, there is always a day when it is nice, warm, sunny and I think "Gee... I can use my non-studded bike." I head out, travel 5 miles on bare pavement, then run into one stretch of ice.... and down I go.

Maybe the best strategy is to have one bike, puts my Hakkas on it and live with it till the Spring.

My method is to use 2 bikes. Unfortunately, there is always a day when it is nice, warm, sunny and I think "Gee... I can use my non-studded bike." I head out, travel 5 miles on bare pavement, then run into one stretch of ice.... and down I go.

Maybe the best strategy is to have one bike, puts my Hakkas on it and live with it till the Spring.

My thoughts exactly. I don't necessarily like having the Hakkas on all the time, but when I hit a patch of black ice, I love 'em. This is my third year on Nokians. I used to have a "winter specific" beater with 26" wheels and Nashbar studs, but I bit the bullet and tooled up my (more comfortable) 29er with Nokians for winter and never looked back.

I have 2 questions:

1. What's a good do-it-all studded tire? I want to put a set on my cross bike to do short road rides through the winter, but would also like to take it out on forest roads and maybe for a little trail riding. I have a set of Schwalbes on my Dahon and they are nice, but some of the Nokians or the Kendas look like they may be better for the light off-road riding that I hope to do.

2. How are the innovas as tires? I know that they won't last as long, etc., but how do they perform?

THANKS!



My thoughts exactly. I don't necessarily like having the Hakkas on all the time, but when I hit a patch of black ice, I love 'em. This is my third year on Nokians. I used to have a "winter specific" beater with 26" wheels and Nashbar studs, but I bit the bullet and tooled up my (more comfortable) 29er with Nokians for winter and never looked back.

I have 2 questions:

1. What's a good do-it-all studded tire? I want to put a set on my cross bike to do short road rides through the winter, but would also like to take it out on forest roads and maybe for a little trail riding. I have a set of Schwalbes on my Dahon and they are nice, but some of the Nokians or the Kendas look like they may be better for the light off-road riding that I hope to do.

2. How are the innovas as tires? I know that they won't last as long, etc., but how do they perform?

THANKS!

For questions 1. The Nokia W106's should fit a cross bike no problem, and has significantly more tread depth than the schwalbes. I've read various reviews that state that the Schwalbes are lower rolling resistance, but at the cost of snow traction. Its all a trade-off. Since you want to go off-road, the Nokias sound like the best solution for you.

For question 2. Personally I've had terrible results with the "cheap" Innova steel studded tires. My 1st tire blew a bead after about 1 month of use. It would have been covered under warrentee, but between back order and west coast to east coast shipping I would have been without a tire for at least 3 weeks. During December into January I MUST have snow tires. I ordered one Nokia W106 from Peter White and shockingly UPS ground shipping from NH to NY is frequently next day delivery! So one day later I have my Nokia tire on the front. The tread looked just about near identical. From 3 feet away I could not tell the difference. A few weeks later I shiped out hard because the steel studs had compeletely worn down. After nearly wrecking my shoulder and elbo in that crash I ordered a 2nd Nokia tire from Peter. I am now entering my 3rd Winter on the Nokians , and the studs look as good as the day I got them. You can see a little bit of wear on the tread, but I don't see any problems getting an other 2 to 3 winters out of these tires.
So do the math. Innova tires cost $70, but one failed in a month, and the other was useless after 2 months. The Nokias cost me $110, but I'll get at at least 4, and maybe even 6 full Winters worth of riding... clearly the Nokias are a much better value. Sure you can get a kit for $15 to replace the studs on the Innovas, but what go through that trouble, they they just can't match the qaulity of the Nokia (or Schwalbes).

Happy riding,
André

I bought Continental Spike Claw 240 last year but didn't have a chance to try them. Maybe this Winter. I didn't know much about studded tires then so I think these have steel spikes, not carbide. I'll build a new wheelset this week to. Yeah, it's expensive to do that and... I bet I won't even use them again :(

Adam

I bought Continental Spike Claw 240 last year but didn't have a chance to try them. Maybe this Winter. I didn't know much about studded tires then so I think these have steel spikes, not carbide. I'll build a new wheelset this week to. Yeah, it's expensive to do that and... I bet I won't even use them again :(

Adam

I'm no expert but I bet those Continental's are carbide tipped.

Continental website says the studs are made of "hardened steel", I don't know what exactly they mean by that. I emailed them to find out :D

Adam

Continental website says the studs are made of "hardened steel", I don't know what exactly they mean by that. I emailed them to find out :D

Adam

I'm sure someone in the forums knows. Maybe bumping this thread will help. Good studs are steel with carbide tips. The cheaper tires don't have the tips. Can you tell by looking?

Not really. I wouldn't know the difference.

Adam

Got my Nokian whatchamacallit W106 in the mail yesterday. Mounted only the front tire so far, snow pretty much all gone - but sub 30s. Holy smokes, that tire is loud! Rolling resistance is not good, but I expected that much. Not sure why it's so noise, is it the spanking new profile of the tire or the studs...
Can't say anything about handling on ice yet, we'll see.

Got my Nokian whatchamacallit W106 in the mail yesterday. Mounted only the front tire so far, snow pretty much all gone - but sub 30s. Holy smokes, that tire is loud! Rolling resistance is not good, but I expected that much. Not sure why it's so noise, is it the spanking new profile of the tire or the studs...
Can't say anything about handling on ice yet, we'll see.
I just ordered a pair of those whatchamacallits from Peter White. I fell on some black ice yesterday and hit the ground pretty hard. I did a face plant before I knew what was hakkapeliittaing!

From the price I see those Continental's going for, I'd say they are carbide tipped. Better be for that price eh?

As of last winter, at least, the Conti Spike claws have steel spikes, not carbide. They're a bit cheaper than Schwalbe and Nokians but the savings aren't worth it as they do wear quickly if you ride on pavement at all. The carbide studs, however, will outlast the tire casing. I know folks who have upwards of five winters on a set of Schwalbe Ice Spikers (and I'm in Saskatchwan, winter is looooooong here).

I'm sure someone in the forums knows. Maybe bumping this thread will help. Good studs are steel with carbide tips. The cheaper tires don't have the tips. Can you tell by looking?

If you look real close, the tungsten tips found in Schwalbe and Nokian tires look a bit "whiter" than the steel bed they sit in. The Conti spikes are shiny steel throughout. Also, if the Continentals contained carbide, they'd be advertised as such.

Also, if the Continentals contained carbide, they'd be advertised as such.

Good point, shoulda thought of that! Mission accomplished though. We got the answer. :)

Yeah, that's a good point indeed:D

A.

Yeah, that's a good point indeed:D

A.

The Conti's will work fine, they'll just wear out faster. I bet you can get a couple seasons at least but that's just a guess.