Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Hardtail vs. Full Suspension (for a guy which is 320lbs)

The story is simple. I have a TREK 4300 bike. I am about to trade it up.
I feel it is not a great bike for my size (320lbs).

I have multiple options.
One of them is to get a better hardtail like the Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo.
For the same money I can get a specialized FSR XC full suspension.

I have been looking around, and did not find any answer about what is best for a guy that is 320lbs.
Does full suspension really makes a difference and can be of use with my weight? Should I ride a hardtail until I loose a significant amount of weight (I am starting a diet)?

Appreciate your opinions

You'd have to give some hints of your style for anyone to form an opinion. Offroad, paved roads, downhiller, climber? COmmuting?

Out of curiosity, what do you expect the new bike to do that the 4300 can't?

While weighing 368 I rode a 1991 Giant Inova and didn't crunch the wheels. No curb jumping annd I kept the tire pressure maxed, I meen ck'n every day which is best done with a guage equipt pump as each time you you a sep. guage precious air's lost. The tires were semi-knobby 28mm. Even now @ 230ish (or so @ times) I've tried soft-tails and find 'em bouncy. Don't fret over wt. or trading-up as far as your future goals. If you want a FlatBar hybrid or a MB with or W/O fr. susp... FINE.
Focus on better OEM wheels, 36sp. if... OR beefier 32s. think custom or "special" wheels when and if you wreck the originals. You're not THAT heavy.. Sorry..
Us heavy wts. can light on bikes just as we can dance-up-a-storm if required.

I ride off-road and paved roads. Off-road during the weekend, and paved roads during the week.
The fork on the 4300 is a joke, and the bike squeeqs all the time.
I rode a specialized all mountain (Pitch) and the story was totally different from how I felt and from how the bike felt.

You may want to investigate a Jamis Coda; the reg., the sport...They're Steel and have steel forks. The wheels and tires aren't the greatest but they're avg. New tires would be in order, 32s or so, only when the 28s or whatever they come with W/O

Lock out the suspension fork. You'll be amazed at the difference. (if it has the lock out feature)

I appreciate your comments :)
what about the comfort of riding? I rode an all mountain and felt way better. Sure the bike cost x4 times more, but still...

Lock out the suspension fork. You'll be amazed at the difference. (if it has the lock out feature)

So, should I be looking for a rear suspension with a complete lockout?

At your weight, stay with a hardtail. You won't gain anything from full suspension and will lose pedaling energy as it oscillates. Plus, I don't know of ANY rear shock that will hold your weight and be reliable over the long haul. NONE.

I am also asking the question of what a new bike will do for you that the old one won't. N+1 is a resistible affliction but we have to have all the facts to help you find the one true path.

From personal experience, full suspension is nice to have but only really great for guys with really deep pockets. Most FS bikes arent still going ten years or so down the road, but the C+V forum is filled with bikes that are MUCH older. The reason for this, besides the relative newness of FS, is proprietary parts that get hard to replace (most typically bushings and often the shocks themselves). Those parts are more likely to break under the weight of a Clyde than under "normal" use by a sub 220lb rider. Forks can almost always be replaced at one point or another. If I were you, I would look into an upgraded fork or even a rigid fork for that 4300. My fiancee has a 4300 and it's plenty of bike for her, and enough bike for me (if the frame was my size). I used to ride a Specialized FS rig "back in the day" (it was a '96 MY that I upgraded quickly with XTR parts), and that Trek 4300 is except for the fork equal to or better than my old ride in most aspects. From what you've said so far, your 4300 could probably stand to get a good service along with a new fork, which will be a good deal cheaper than a new FS bike, which will allow you to save even more while you lose more weight and get into something REALLY nice down the line.

Just my .02, and the plan that I'm personally sticking to at the present. In my case, my bike is a HT pre-Pacific Schwinn Mesa. It's not new and it's not perfect, but it gets the job done, and I'm sure your 4300 can be adjusted to do the same.

I'm currently at 270 but have rode at 290, way more then 300 with camel back and stuff. As for rear suspension you won't have much luck with a coil spring, but maybe you could find one. If you go full suspension go air. I had zero problems with 3 different fox rear shocks pumped up to 270-290, their
limit is 300 lbs pressure. I'd say it would handle you.

Lockout is kind of nice, that is when I remember to use it. Great for the fireroad climbs, but I could easily go without it.

I've broke 2 of the 4 full suspensions I've owned and 1 of the of the 3 hardtails. If your trails are rough your gonna break frames. Have a warranty.

Everyone that tells you that good full suspension is expensive knows what they are talking about. Cheap full suspension is usally more trouble then its worth.

I ride my full suspension more then my hard tail, but mainly because my hardtail has a steep head angle and feels sketchy. I think the full suspension will wear me out faster then the hard tail, but the hard tail has litterly rattled a filling out.

Hard tail is probably the better choice. Full suspension is much more fun when going fast and decending. Hard tail is more fun everywhere else.

I would recomend a hardtail with an air adjustable fork. The manufacturer of the fork will have a recomended pressure for your weight to keep it in the operating range instead of bottomed out. The Gary Fisher you linked to is an XC race bike, I would think you should look more into an all mountain like the Specialized P2 or Giant STP.

You could probably just put a decent fork on your bike and notice a big improvement.
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1075517_-1_400021_400002_400205

You wouldn't get your money back out of it if you sold the bike, but the fork might just outlast the Trek and wind up on your next bike too.

late to the party but I (like others) suggest saving a ton of cash and upgrading the fork on the bike you currently have. A Fox Vanilla should cure your woes.

At your weight, stay with a hardtail. You won't gain anything from full suspension and will lose pedaling energy as it oscillates. Plus, I don't know of ANY rear shock that will hold your weight and be reliable over the long haul. NONE.

A 320lb rider is probably outside of the range that the suspension on any bike can be tuned for.

If I was you'd try a bike - perhaps your current one - with a rigid fork and Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tyres. Or the biggest size of XRs, if you ride off road. Balloon tyres give an excellent suspension effect, protect your rims, and don't bottom out like mechanical suspension.

A 320lb rider is probably outside of the range that the suspension on any bike can be tuned for.

If I was you'd try a bike - perhaps your current one - with a rigid fork and Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tyres. Or the biggest size of XRs, if you ride off road. Balloon tyres give an excellent suspension effect, protect your rims, and don't bottom out like mechanical suspension.

+1:thumb: for Rigid with BIG APPLES. I keep mine at about 50# (rear) and 45# (front) and get a nice cushy ride. I weigh in at 260. I went full rigid and love it. Big guys have enough to worry about. Failed suspension is not on my list of concerns. Besides, they are just so damned cool lookin :D

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp331/homeairdirect/Misc%20Bike%20Pics/IMG_1474.jpg

I ride a Remedy 7 I keep the rear shock at about 270 and i am weighing 298 these days. I started riding it when i was 330 and i was fine, I had the PSI at about 300 then! I love my dual suspension. I wouldn't go back!

, and the bike squeeqs all the time..

Is it the bike's fault?:p....I'm thinking a $4000 full susspension is going to have more pivot points and do more squeaking if not cleaned, lubed and maintained properly.:eek:

You could probably just put a decent fork on your bike and notice a big improvement.
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1075517_-1_400021_400002_400205

You wouldn't get your money back out of it if you sold the bike, but the fork might just outlast the Trek and wind up on your next bike too.

Certainly this is a food for thought...
The guy at my local bike store recommended only Air-based full suspensions.

I ride a Remedy 7 I keep the rear shock at about 270 and i am weighing 298 these days. I started riding it when i was 330 and i was fine, I had the PSI at about 300 then! I love my dual suspension. I wouldn't go back!

It makes sense to get a full suspension even if the rear suspension will be close until I loose some weight.
I do not mind riding it like that. The whole idea is to have a pair of bikes which are more durable, and will carry me for more time. If I need to start investing 300USD on a fork, I rather replace the bike, since I will be getting 3/4 of the money back on my current bike...

I would recomend a hardtail with an air adjustable fork. The manufacturer of the fork will have a recomended pressure for your weight to keep it in the operating range instead of bottomed out. The Gary Fisher you linked to is an XC race bike, I would think you should look more into an all mountain like the Specialized P2 or Giant STP.

Back home I cannot get a P2. They simply do not import this model...
I was looking at another all mountain... but it might be out of my current range... Specialized Pitch.
Rode that one a bit, was really good.

I've seen lots of big dudes riding big all mountain and freeride bikes, and riding them hard. If you've got the money, go for it- they're just insanely fun.

I would not however, ride one on the road.

Actually, I probably would.

Hell, I'd tour on one just to make some inane point- but I'm weird like that. :D

I've seen lots of big dudes riding big all mountain and freeride bikes, and riding them hard. If you've got the money, go for it- they're just insanely fun.

I would not however, ride one on the road.

Actually, I probably would.

Hell, I'd tour on one just to make some inane point- but I'm weird like that. :D

I have tried the Specialized Pitch a few weeks back.
It is a totally different ride quality...

OK. I must say your responses have made a lot of sense.
I had been trying some bikes from different manufactures just to find out some basic facts:
My weight is not going to allow me to enjoy a rear suspension until I loose some weight.
I can certainly go with a better Hardtail with a better front suspension and for now this should be a good choice for me.
It seems I do not need anything more then this at this point, and that should do the trick.
A better front suspension on a hartail with better tires should be what I will be looking for.
Not the name, but rather the set of parts I will be getting.

i was about to pipe in but looks like you found it out. just want to say be careful. at 260 (i'm still 230) I bent the fork end on my bike and my axle was about to drop out. never even noticed b/c both ends bent evenly. axle was about to slip out when i noticed it during a cleaning session. don't ask me how the wheel stayed true b/c even my LBS couldn't tell me. it was my behavior though. i'm always hopping curbs and crap. anyway might want to inspect the fork now and then until you lose a little bit and not hop around too much.

A 320lb rider is probably outside of the range that the suspension on any bike can be tuned for.

If I was you'd try a bike - perhaps your current one - with a rigid fork and Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tyres. Or the biggest size of XRs, if you ride off road. Balloon tyres give an excellent suspension effect, protect your rims, and don't bottom out like mechanical suspension.

My $0.02 here...
342LBS current - on a new Giant Suede DX (21sp, pedal-forward design) I do NOT bottom the front fork (but only been on-road) and the tire swap is +1!! I got "Marathon Supreme, 50-559, Reflex, Folding" 26 X 2.00 @ 85 PSI - the ballon-type tire is the way to go - will help save rims too I am told!
HTH

+1:thumb: for Rigid with BIG APPLES. I keep mine at about 50# (rear) and 45# (front) and get a nice cushy ride. I weigh in at 260. I went full rigid and love it. Big guys have enough to worry about. Failed suspension is not on my list of concerns. Besides, they are just so damned cool lookin :D

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp331/homeairdirect/Misc%20Bike%20Pics/IMG_1474.jpg

+1 for the cool and pretty Bike! I dig the Tires!!!
Sorry you lost points for the valves showing though...

If you ride roads and dirt roads, and not mountain trails per se, then hardtail would be the way to go. Buying a hardtail to lock out the back tire doesn't make sense. In addition, if you are not riding obstacles then a hardtail will be more efficient on roads and dirt roads. Climbing or coming down trails with roots, rocks and bumps, full suspension is far better going up or down. Gary Fisher makes a ton of good quality hardtails, found price/performance to be about the best, however Specialized and others make a pretty good bike as well. Get a decent air shock, even the tora shocks will work. I do not agree with weight and dual suspension argument though. If you have a good bike shop they will be able to set you up most bikes now come with warrant and are pretty well built. Giant makes a Yukon dual suspension, though it isn't as good as a 2500 full suspension from other manufactures, is a GREAT $750 full suspension that rides like a $1500 dollar bike and better than most hardtails. In your post you can tell you liked the ride of the pitch and full suspension. IF you are looking to drop weight and hit mountain trails then I would look at the Giant Yukon if you have $750...the Giant salesman will tell you if they can adequately set you up on that bike. Then again, if you are not really riding any single tracks or actual cross country trails, and limit your rides to asphault or dirt roads, hardtail would be a more economical solution. I would say, that if you are just mostly riding roads and focused on losing weight, you may want to look into an entry level road bike. Road bike far more efficient on the road and encourages you to ride longer. Good luck with your purchase and if you ride it alot you made the right choice.

If you ride roads and dirt roads, and not mountain trails per se, then hardtail would be the way to go. Buying a hardtail to lock out the back tire doesn't make sense. In addition, if you are not riding obstacles then a hardtail will be more efficient on roads and dirt roads. Climbing or coming down trails with roots, rocks and bumps, full suspension is far better going up or down. Gary Fisher makes a ton of good quality hardtails, found price/performance to be about the best, however Specialized and others make a pretty good bike as well. Get a decent air shock, even the tora shocks will work. I do not agree with weight and dual suspension argument though. If you have a good bike shop they will be able to set you up most bikes now come with warrant and are pretty well built. Giant makes a Yukon dual suspension, though it isn't as good as a 2500 full suspension from other manufactures, is a GREAT $750 full suspension that rides like a $1500 dollar bike and better than most hardtails. In your post you can tell you liked the ride of the pitch and full suspension. IF you are looking to drop weight and hit mountain trails then I would look at the Giant Yukon if you have $750...the Giant salesman will tell you if they can adequately set you up on that bike. Then again, if you are not really riding any single tracks or actual cross country trails, and limit your rides to asphault or dirt roads, hardtail would be a more economical solution. I would say, that if you are just mostly riding roads and focused on losing weight, you may want to look into an entry level road bike. Road bike far more efficient on the road and encourages you to ride longer. Good luck with your purchase and if you ride it alot you made the right choice.


I appreciate your response. This is where I stand today:
I found most entry level Hardtail to be very disappointing when it comes to the front fork.
On the hardtail I would probably go for the Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo.
It comes with a Reacon 335 fork 100mm.

That said, and since this is the end of the year, I may consider an All Mountain like the Pitch.

I have no clue whether a 29er may fit as well. and I would appreciate the advice.