Road Bike Racing - The end of Vandenbroucke?

Certainly should be. This looks like a new wave of cleanup, let's hope it works.

This (among other things) prompted Rogge to declare Belgium as a center of sports doping. A sorry state of affairs.

Cheers...Gary

I would certainly say that being found in
possession of EPO, Clenbuterol, and Morphine are
a good indicator that he's finished. I mean what
team is going to give him another chance given
the problems he's had in the past.
Its a really black day for professional cycling
and I fear its going to ripple out precipitating something
akin to the TdF scandel of 98 (has it been that long?)
I bet Pantani, Armstrong and the rest of the boys
are keeping their heads down.

Marty

That's it for Frankie, for sure... There's always the chance that he'll keep out of jail, and some Belgian or Dutch division II or III team -- Axa, Vlaanderen, whatever -- might sign him as a ringer. Of course, he can always wit tables at his family's auberge...

Personally, I think this was a good day for cycling. It showed that the system works. Domo cut him loose immediately and didn't buy into his excuses. It shows that Lefevere, and presumably other managers, have some backbone.

yes its good that Domo cut him at once
Can you believe he said the EPO and
Clenbuterol were for his dog? :roflmao:
All I'm saying is I hope it doesn't set
off another firestorm like Festina in 98.

Marty

VDB hopefully gets another chance. He is/was a brilliant rider...which is why his constant boneheaded behaviour is forgiven.

He has alot of enemies and he has made alot of mistakes so I don't know if he will ever get on a division 1 team again. But, if you banished all riders who got caught then Cassagrande, Virenque, Dufaux, etc,etc,etc would all be gone.

I hope in the years to come VDB gets it together and makes it back. He is a brilliant rider to watch.

I agree that riders caught with dope should have the opportunity to redeem themselves. As RacerX points out, Casagrande, Virenque and others had that opportunity, and they've come back. I think that's good for the sport.

Unfortunately, I don't think VDB is going to get that chance. Remember, he's already had two or three chances to come back -- after burining Lotto, Mapei, Cofidis and flaking out on Lampre. Domon really was his last chance... and he blew it.

VDB won't be banned for life, but I can't really imagine any Division I teams willing to take a chance on him. In effect, he banned himself for life. When I look back at his career,I find it hard not to wonder whether he ever really wanted to be a bicycle racer, and whether he screwed up his own career on purpose.

But, if you banished all riders who got caught ...

For those of us interested in the sport now, that would be a disastrous blow. But in the long run, perhaps that would be a better approach. Forgiveness is OK, but there is a limit. VDB has far exceeded that limit. And I expect that Virenque will be following closely behind him. But I do have enough compassion, even for idiots, to hope they stop before they blow themselves up.

Call me old fashioned, but in any sport, the idea is to see whose condition and ability make them the best. That has a lot to do with both physical and mental makeup. Huge sums of money, the enhancing substances they foster, and the superhuman egos we encourage are, to me, not the real point of sport.

But then I remember when the olympics were for amateurs only. I would rather be discussing who took a few dollars years ago, and whether that made them a pro, than what damage shooting insulin might do, and can you keep them from testing you for four hours after you shoot up so there are no suspicious traces remaining.

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by gmason
And I expect that Virenque will be following closely behind him.
Why? Because he admitted that he had doped and was suspended for it? There's no evidence that Virenque is doping except his past behaviour, and by that standard, most of the pro peloton, from Casagrande to Florent Brard must be doping. What happened to forgiveness? Hell, why stop there? Why not observe that Lance Armstrong has worked with Dr. Ferrari and that he probably has a deeper understanding of and possibly access to drugs like EPO and Hemassist because of his illness? This line od reasoning is utterly pointless. We know that VDB is a cheat because he was caught cheating. Period. Let's not cast aspersions based on past associations and transgressions.

I like to think that Virenque is clean. He rides for a team that's obviously tough on drugs and he wouldn't get a second chance if he blew it [unlike VDB's fouror five chances]. What's more, everybody's watching him.

How many times do you forgive a rider who
is trying to redeem himself?
there is a point in time where you have to say
enough is enough. I think that VdB is far past that point.
The Olympics were much more interesting before
professionals were allowed in.
just my $.02 worth

Marty

Velocipedio -

First of all, innocent until proven (or perhaps admittedly) guilty. I just don't think Virenque will last.

And no, not guilt by association either. [N.B. You seem to have read a lot into my post that wasn't there.] However, if Armstrong is found to be guilty, he should be booted as well. Anyone should.

Forgiveness? Maybe not, after all. Perhaps zero tolerance is the right answer.

Cheers...Gary

The problem with zero tolerance is that it's a surefire way to end the sport of cycling. I don't personally think that everyone in, or even the majority of, the peloton, is doping. On the other hand, I suspect that a whole lot of riders succumb to the temptation to try banned substances at some point in their careers. From all I've read and heard, the culture is there, and the pressure can be enormous. One former pro I know once told me that "everyone tries it, but most people drop it because the disadvantages [nausea, frequent illness, bizarre secondary effects, accelerated resting heart rate, increased HR recovery time...] outweigh the advantages." So, if we ban everyone who has ever tried doping, we'll end up banning everyone.

Having said that, I think the kind of sanctions applied in VDB's case, not to mention Frigo's and Virenque's, are probably adequate. Fire the rider, ban him from competition for a season, and I bet he'll come back clean. There's no guarantee, of course, but the idea of sanctioning people for what they might do doesn't sit well with me and I believe that people should have the right to redeem their mistakes.

Remember, Virenque never tested positive for anything and was never caught in possession. Certainly, he whined and dragged his feet for years, but he admitted his cheating and paid the penalty. Give the guy a break! :)

The truth is that testing has become quite sophisticated and the UCI's regulations on blood doping and hematocrit levels -- regardless of which drug you happen to use -- provides a fair bit of coverage over new blood boosters like darbepoeitin [remember -- the skiier Johann Muhlegg was DQed not for using darbepoetin but for having an illegally high hematocrit level].

The VDB case, Muhlegg, even Frigo, Virenque and other tell em that the system does work. It's embarassing to the sport and to the sponsors, but it does work. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that cycling is one of the cleanest pro sports in the world.

With all that in mind, I'm willing to give Virenque the benefit of the doubt...

The problem with zero tolerance is that it's a surefire way to end the sport of cycling
I assume that you mean that essentially all of the names in the sport now would go as a result. And that therefore, the sponsors would go as well, and so on.

I agree to the first part, and that would be very sad. But whether the races are interesting, the sponsor has his rider in the lead for TV exposure, etc. would be the same if all riders were clean as it is if all riders are dirty. Perhaps the overall times would slow a tad, but relatively, the situation would be the same.

The most important point to me is the issue of fairness. And what the permissiveness (if that is the right word) does to those who do want to stay clean, but as a result either get nowhere against the dopers, or give up for the same reason. I don't like to see riders killing themselves with drugs, but that is really their business. What I really hate to see is a "good guy" who is as good or better than any of the top riders lose out because he has the moral courage to stay clean when the others don't. They get the gold. They get the glory. And he gets had for doing the right thing.

BTW - re sponsorship. There are already rumblings that sponsors may not continue if they are not guaranteed a place in the TdF because that is where all the return is for them. That certainly is not a good thing.

Cheers...Gary

So now, two teams have reportedly made him offers! At least they are not top line teams, and they will require a clean bill of health before they sign him, so maybe it is simply a marketing ploy. It did get them into the news.

And his management company says "he never did say that he wanted to abandon racing". Gee - maybe they can still get their ten percent. :o

Cheers...Gary

See my post of March 1 above... I knew this was likely.

Of course, that means he won't get a start in any of the grand tours and that he'll be limited to classics and regional events. For a guy who's always thought of himself as a big star, I think he'll [i]feel/i] like his career is over. No Division I team will touch him... ot after he's burned every big team he's ridden for...

I have personally known may now pro riders and Vandenbroucke I can happily say I have had no run ins or contact with. However from his actions and what I have seen and been told is an qualified *******. No reputable team wants to touch him, but he is always able to get a small contract due to his miserable UCI points. He is smart however to getthe points early in the year to lock in whatever team he can by the winter. This however will not last. I do believe he has dug himself a hole and he is realizing it.

If I was a team manager I would not hire him. Why? Fight over money, have him threaten to break contract and screw the organization out of th emoney spent. I much rather go to Spain and pick up 2 hungry, honest, nice young riders. I get more for my money this way.

The plot thickens ...

After yesterday’s reports that the second division Marlux and Palmans teams were prepared to offer Frank Vandenbroucke a place on their rosters, the latest from Belgium is that Domo have not closed the door totally on Frank and will give him his old job back if he is cleared of all charges against him.

I think someone should get on the ball and sign his dog! ;)

Cheers...Gary

The Thick Plottens

From InfoCiclismo:

Team Domo-Farm Frites would not be opposed to the return of Frank
Vandenbroucke, who was fired last week, if he was found to be completely
cleared of any wrongdoings. Domo spokesperson, Dennis Dejonckere said that
"the door remains open, it only remains for Frank to resolve the open
inquiry with justice".

So, if he's negative he's back?
reportedly the Clenbuterol was the dogs,
the Morphine was from an old Rx from previous injury
and the EPO was an old batch he never used....
uh huh, and "Dr Mabuse" didn't really have all that
stuff in his boot, it was his mechanics....

Marty

VdB received a six month suspension from the BE cycling authorities. Are others in the queue? Who else would have any kind of jurisdiction? UCI, or is this outfit one of their national federations?

Cheers...Gary

The UCI issues punishment. Federations also can opt for punishment. Nowdays many federations are issuing punishment along with the UCI. Very fair and I applaud the federation in taking such actions.

The BDB affair will continue for yet some time. Like all other accused riders and there are many. Trials almost daily for many riders. VDB will never ste up and come clean. Basicly too late now with all the lies.

Just look at Festina that got caught that year. No one did it. A few days later most confesed. Virenque held out and in my opinion got away with it. More power to him for holding out! :)

If I were Domo director I would simply not deal with the issue. Franck wil not ride here ever again and that is that. There are many many many more riders out there that can produce results and up coming riders that should get the chance to make a name for themselves.

Franck - You liar, stupid man. Shut up and retire. Get a real job and move on. Quit playing with people and BS everyone. Move over, you screwed up already.

And I expect that Virenque will be following closely behind him.

This from an earlier reply by me. It appears that I was wrong.

Virenque's performance on Ventoux certainly shows that he has returned. And with all the testing in this Tour, he is likely clean as well.

Good on him.

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by gmason
And with all the testing in this Tour, he is likely clean as well.
Just stay away from those Peruvian throat lozenges. Oh!, and Mrs. Rumsas.