Touring - Best 26" touring rim currently available?

I'm building a set of 36-hole, 26" wheels around XT hubs for long distance, expedition style touring. I'll be using rim brakes. What are some of the better options for rims?

For expedition riding, I would personally recommend the Velocity Cliffhanger. You can obtain it in 32 or 36h patterns. The Cliffhanger is essentially the Aeroheat, but thicker and tougher.

I have used Sun CR18 rims with a great amount of luck -but I have disc brakes so I don't have wear on the rims.

On my mtb I have Sun Rhynolites with rim brakes for the last 5 years with plenty of use, and I really like them. However, these are wide rims so some touring tyres might have a problem on them.

Some people have said Sun rims are soft, but personally never had problems with them.

Sun rims cr-18 all the way.

I do quite a bit of gravel road biking - some of it very rough and I have never had problems with the Mavic 317 (32 hole). Like Nigeyy I have disc brakes so I do not heat up the rims. I weigh 145 pounds and my bike weighs 32 pounds (REI Safari) so I think the 32 hole is sufficient.

Salsa Gordo is bomb proof

http://www.salsacycles.com/images/zoom_rimGordo.jpg

Mavic 719's. I built a set with XT hubs and DT Alpine III spokes. Bomb proof. I weigh 230.

The Velocity Cliffhanger is a good choice. It's quite wide, so you get a little more air volume in your tire, the thickness means it will take longer for the rim sidewalls to wear away if you ride in dirt and dust and use rim brakes. The triangular cross section is very stiff and strong. My only objection is that it's a fairly heavy rim, but that's to be expected when you make a rim wide, thick and with a triangle cross section.

I've been running Velocity Psychos (http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=597) for over a year and you can't destroy them. They are a "downhill" rim, and have the weight to backup that claim. It's triple box, double walled, eyeleted. I would strongly recommend it.

The one issue is that they are wide, and I mean wide. I wouldn't go any thinner than 1.75 on them. I have the marathon pluses (1.75) on it and there was an issue at first getting it to stay at first. It did stay on and there isn't a problem now.

When they die though, I'm going to try the Sun Rhyno Lites. I think they are of the same quality, but haven't gotten the chance to try them out yet. And they are cheaper. :)

I've been running Velocity Psychos (http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=597) for over a year and you can't destroy them. They are a "downhill" rim, and have the weight to backup that claim. It's triple box, double walled, eyeleted. I would strongly recommend it.

The one issue is that they are wide, and I mean wide. I wouldn't go any thinner than 1.75 on them. I have the marathon pluses (1.75) on it and there was an issue at first getting it to stay at first. It did stay on and there isn't a problem now.

When they die though, I'm going to try the Sun Rhyno Lites. I think they are of the same quality, but haven't gotten the chance to try them out yet. And they are cheaper. :)

Mavic EX 721's w/ 36h on my LHT and they are great wheels for tires 1.5" and up to 2.25" (I think)

I'm building a set of 36-hole, 26" wheels around XT hubs for long distance, expedition style touring. I'll be using rim brakes. What are some of the better options for rims?

Just about any mountain bike rim should do. Width isn't an issue since mountain bike rims take really wide tires on very narrow rims. I run Mavic XC517's that have a crossectional width of 22mm with 2.2" tires. A Mavic XM317, XM 517 or XM717 should fit the bill. The 517 is probably the best value.

For expedition riding, I would personally recommend the Velocity Cliffhanger. You can obtain it in 32 or 36h patterns. The Cliffhanger is essentially the Aeroheat, but thicker and tougher.

+ 1 on the cliffhanger XT combo. I routinely abuse them commuting/grocery getting and some light offroad trail riding. They have never came out of true.

I have the Aeroheat, seems like a better weight for touring. I have used the Alex DH22 on 700C so it should work just as well on 26". It's a tough rim, and light.

DH22 (XC MTB)

Features
Semi Aero profile
Tops in MTB racing
Optional SSE/CSW


Tech Spec
Pin joint 32, 36 holes, silver/ black
26"-520g, ERD 535.8mm, ETRTO 559X16mm

I have had a pair of Rigida Andra 30 (http://www.rigida.com/en/products/hybride-city/rims-5/andra-30-4) rims on my bike for two years and have never had to true them for that two years, the only exception being after I was hit from behind by a truck. They are carbide coated so I can see them lasting at least another 3 years.

+1 for the XM 719s. 225lbs plus gear. Several off road tours and commuting and no problems. At 460 grams, they are a great combination of durability and lightweight.

Rigidia is manufactor of my choice. This Mavic I had bad experience, they always break in the warranty period - I get a new one - break again in the warranty period. I don't if I should be happy. The last one I bought in Aug 2008 in Kyoto broke July 2009 in Croatia. Now I shift back again to Rigida Exal [Exal = ex Alesia]. I broke several (7) Mavics than I bought an Alesia rim lived 6 years until a car crash. Had no money got again Mavic (crashed again 4 in 2 years).

I'm building a set of 36-hole, 26" wheels around XT hubs for long distance, expedition style touring. I'll be using rim brakes. What are some of the better options for rims?

Great question... I want to replace the alex wheels that came on my 54 LHT. What about hubs?

I'm bringing this one back with one final question. Thanks, by the way, for all the suggestions.

I've narrowed my rim choice down to the Velocity Chukker (600g) and the Mavic XM 719 (475g). They both seem like great, capable rims that most likely will hold up to all kinds of loaded riding, on road and off.

Two questions: Which is a better choice? And why (three questions, I guess)? Is 125g, or 4.4 ounces, a significant weight difference for a set of rims (I suspect the answer to be along the lines of "if you're riding thousands and thousands of miles, yes.")?

Thanks again for all the help!

For conventional loaded touring the 719 inherits the features of some of the best touring rims ever made. The double eyelets are important to maintaining a light rim that can be built to the spoke tensions required for best durability. The other option is deeper or heavier rims. The 719 has acquired some controversy since it was adopted while mavic dropped arguably better rims from an earlier time. But it still has features found on few other rims (or possibly they are out there on some lesser known brands?)

4 ounces on a rim is huge because it is rotating weight. Same principle as adding 4 ounces to each shoe, vs 8 ounces to your pack or waistline. exept possibly worse since a rim describes a larger circle than your feet. You can be confident that excellent rims can be made for 475 grams, probably less, and that is in a 700C! So while heavier rims may also serve light rims need not raise concerns if properly made. I tend to prefer downhill rims for touring, or the Dyad Aeroheat clan. These can run to the heavy side, and still make pleasant bikes to ride, but they are not the equal of lighter rims of an earlier time ( have some nos MA2s I am saving for a special bike).

Velocity Synergy with offset drilling allows for reduced-dish wheel build.

I have had a set of Mavic XC 717 Rims with 36 spokes laced up to XT hubs on my LHT since I built it up in the summer of 08. When they were first built the valve hole was machined a little rough and I had to file it down myself and then put some extra rim tape around it which solved the problem.

Around the 2,000km mark the front hub started making a lot of strange noise and there was an issue with the bearings and caps or something, and I had to have the hub body replaced (this was done while I was in NZ and I wasn't entirely sure what the actual issue was, but this is what I remember being told by the mechanic).

I have put about 7,500km on them, mostly on pavement, but around 500km on gravel/dirt roads, and maybe 50 of light mountain bike trails.

Love the rims, and apart from the front hub I have had no problems. I feel confident riding on beat up back roads and decent MTB trails if I am not too heavily loaded.

Is 125g, or 4.4 ounces, a significant weight difference for a set of rims (I suspect the answer to be along the lines of "if you're riding thousands and thousands of miles, yes.")?

In my humble experience, I've found the following to be true. A heavier rim (for touring applications) results in less acceleration in that you have a heavier object to spin, but they have more inertia. Meaning that once your are up to speed, they will stay at speed with less effort. It's a trade off.

I'm bringing this one back with one final question. Thanks, by the way, for all the suggestions.

I've narrowed my rim choice down to the Velocity Chukker (600g) and the Mavic XM 719 (475g). They both seem like great, capable rims that most likely will hold up to all kinds of loaded riding, on road and off.

Two questions: Which is a better choice? And why (three questions, I guess)? Is 125g, or 4.4 ounces, a significant weight difference for a set of rims (I suspect the answer to be along the lines of "if you're riding thousands and thousands of miles, yes.")?

Thanks again for all the help!

I'd be curious what the relative wall thicknesses are of those two rims. In other words with the Cliffhanger do you get insane vertical strength but the same rim wear as the 719? My gut sense is that anything that is going to knock a 719 out of round is going to be doing a hell of a lot of damage on the rim bead/brake surface of the Cliffhanger that would lead one to rim replacement anyway. I'll defer to folks with actual experience on the matter but I'd be more inclined to have a rim with thick sidewalls like less expensive Rigida , Alex or use a Chukker rim than a quasi aero rim like the Cliffhanger where the extra metal isn't where the damage occurs, on the braking surface and bead.

Velocity Synergy with offset drilling allows for reduced-dish wheel build.

This^^

built really well...

"A heavier rim (for touring applications) results in less acceleration in that you have a heavier object to spin, but they have more inertia. Meaning that once your are up to speed, they will stay at speed with less effort. It's a trade off."

I'm no physicist, but I think this is wrong. The rim is harder to accelerate, but pedaling is the process of constantly accelerating the rim to keep up to speed. Just stop pedaling for a few beats and you will have to visibly accelerate the rim back up to speed. This process is constant. I assume you are right about the extra inertia, but it does not seem to be an even trade to me. It is a widely accepted rule that wheel weight is net punishing and significant, so presumably someone can explain why.

For those that asked about hubs... For me the main thing with hubs is getting 40 spoke drillings when that is required. But a 36 spoke wheel really performs, and 26 inch wheels are extra strong, so if you want to toss the concern over drillings, then the options abound. I love machined hubs, but the Shimano hubs are probably just as good or even better. The tech side on this does not actually favour bar stock as a base for hubs (what gets used in machining formed hubs). And it doesn't favour cartridge bearings either. I have never had a problem with simple LX hubs, and I did a lot of touring a few years back when I weighed 265. I've never broken a spoke on tour. Properly built wheels with quality rims are the main point. I have recently splashed out on some machined hubs. They are just so beautiful, and I needed some 40 hole drillings.

Speaking of bearings loose bearings are normally larger, more numerous, easily replaced roadside, etc... The sealed bearings are designed for other applications. Boutique hub builders could be said to be taking a shortcut by using cartridge bearings.

Have to report some problems we have been having with our XM719s while touring. We have cracked up three of them on the rears of our bikes. The first failure was on my girlfriends bike (whilst doing the GDMBR) and we both currently have XM719s on the way out on both our bikes. In each case the rim has failed by cracking along the surface that the tube sits on between eyelets. The wheels have been built up by an experienced wheel builder in each case so I am assuming that this is not a build problem. It was suggested that we had to much pressure in them (running 2" XRs) there is a small chance that we may have in the first instance but I have made sure that we have been running them at around 50psi well under the max. We are both around 180lbs and split our load between front and rear racks.

I am currently doing some research for new 36 hole rims - we are currently touring in Belize so not the ideal place for this to happen...

We build all are wheels with Rigida Andra (spoke holes drilled at angles optimized for large flange hubs (read Rohloff) non eyeletted, or Rigida Sputnik rims (eyeletted). They are inexpensive, somewhat crudely finished (rimseam), heavy, but incredibly strong rims. We rarely have a failure, the majority we replace are worn at the the sidewall due to wear.

They can take a beating an can be tensioned quite high without fear of the rim cracking eventually which is something you can NOT do with any Mavic rim. While a Mavic has a superb finish and makes for a very true and round wheel, I've seen too many of them fail around the eyelets from overtensioning.

I would not get a Mavic if you are touring with front and rear loaded panniers and you weigh a lot yourself.

If you are looking for a strong touring rim, just make sure you stay away from too light, too narrow. Anything a little larger and heavier is a good start. Another thing I can recommend is ceramic for rim brakes. Clearly more expensive, but no scratchy braking anymore, no eating-the-sidewall-away anymore.

You also may find some very interesting info here : http://journal.goingslowly.com/search/label/Gear%20Reviews

I use XT hubs, 36 holes, DT Swiss Competition spokes, 3x, Velocity Aeroheat rims and recommend them.

"A heavier rim (for touring applications) results in less acceleration in that you have a heavier object to spin, but they have more inertia. Meaning that once your are up to speed, they will stay at speed with less effort. It's a trade off."

I'm no physicist, but I think this is wrong. The rim is harder to accelerate, but pedaling is the process of constantly accelerating the rim to keep up to speed. Just stop pedaling for a few beats and you will have to visibly accelerate the rim back up to speed. This process is constant. I assume you are right about the extra inertia, but it does not seem to be an even trade to me. It is a widely accepted rule that wheel weight is net punishing and significant, so presumably someone can explain why.

EmpC/PetP. EmpC is pretty much bang on. I'll wander through the quotes. Wheel weight is not any more punishing than any other weight. . .unless you are trying to change speed in a hurry. It's not very noticeable on braking because a good set of brakes can turn a lot of spinning energy into heat in a hurry with very little rider effort. It's everything in a race when you want to catch an attack. Heavier rims act like a flywheel slowing an acceleration and it takes legs and cardio to overcome things. The difference could leave a racer with a huge break to bridge. Racers subject to attack must use very light rims. Time trial events feature a lot of aero disc wheels. They are a bit heavier, but cleaner in the air so the weight penalty pays off since there are not radical speed changes in most time trials. (Might be interesting if a time trial featured a series of 1/2 mile straightaways followed by hairpin turns. . .aero discs would likely go away) In climbing time trials, the aero disc has less advantage as the speeds are lower.

The original question was about rims for touring. No attacks there, thus no need to go light, except as a (small) climbing consideration. The steady state rolling penalty of weight is no more than the steady state penalty of the same mass in your water bottle or bladder.

Pedaling is not the process of constantly accelerating the the rim. Pedaling, or the work done via pedaling is spent on climbing, increasing speed, overcoming wind resistance, overcoming bearing resistance and overcoming drive train and tire hysteresis losses.

In high school physics, when the mathematics of circular motion is covered, the material does discuss constant acceleration in rotating masses. . .twirling a weight on a string. That's true enough, but not relevant here as the rim diameter never changes thus the acceleration and related work is never expressed. Theoretically, at high enough speeds, spoke tension increases and decreases on deceleration, but one would need a bucketful of decimals to express that as a percent.

"The steady state rolling penalty of weight is no more than the steady state penalty of the same mass in your water bottle or bladder."


Even conceding that point there is plenty of acceleration involved in bringing wheels up to speed. With luck one gets to pedal non-stop for hours on end, but just as often one crosses cities or terrain where there is a constant ebb and flow. I see little advantage in overbuilding wheels.

I'm still looking for the replacement for the MA2. Light, narrow, strong, raw aluminum, and no welded joints.

I see little advantage in overbuilding wheels.

Even when 100+ miles from the nearest town, riding rutted dirt roads with the occasional singletrack, a rigid fork and upwards of 80 pounds of gear?

I guess my original post was getting at the question of which rim would provide the most peace of mind in an "expedition style touring" situation. It seems an overbuilt wheel would be a good start. Obviously lighter rims could do the trick but I'm looking for something close to bomb proof.

By the way, I've decided to go with Velocity Cliffhanger rims, XT hubs and either triple butted or straight gauge spokes. Any peace of mind there?

Thanks for all the input!

nameless--

if you're going to be running wide tires and very heavy loads i'd would strongly recommend against the cliffhangers.

here is some information:
http://journal.goingslowly.com/2009/08/velocity-rims.html
http://journal.goingslowly.com/2009/12/velocity-rims-part-2.html
http://journal.goingslowly.com/2010/01/velocity-rims-part-3.html

kazer,

thanks for the links. i remember reading your posts when you originally posted to BF and have since assumed your problems were isolated to a bad "batch" of rims. it does however make sense that the forces exerted on the rim from touring with a wider tire would cause the failure.

as it turns out, coincidently enough, i'm putting together a replica of what you're touring on: a 56cm LHT with 26" wheels and plan on running 2.0" marathon xr tires (2.25" xrs if i can find them). the plan is to ride through north and south america, sticking to backcountry dirt roads whenever possible.

looking at velocity's website, the pyscho seems to be unbelievably heavy (nearly a pound heavier per wheelset than the cliffhanger). if the shape of the rim is what was causing your problem, i'm wondering if the mountain goat (at 510 grams, although slightly more narrow than the cliffhanger) would be heavy-duty enough? my guess is the width would limit it's stoutness.

since your whole debacle with waiting around and swapping rims, what is your impression of the pyscho? have you come across any resounding recommendations for other rims just as durable that weight less? if you were starting from scratch all over again, what would you do?

your blog is incredible, by the way. great photos, great journal updates and pretty amazing dedication to post as often as you do. best of luck!

given that most rim failures are on the rear wheel why not put the heavy rim on the rear and the normal heavy on the front?

Good thread. As much as I like my 719s, I thought if I was able to do my dream ride to South America I might go with something stouter like the Cliffhangers but not after seeing the above. I used to have some aeroheats which stayed true until I retired them after a very short life due to a similar issue pictured above: pad wear causing the side wall to split. I would have thought the thicker walls on the Cliffhangers would have prevented this.

I would like to try Rigida rims but haven't been able to find a source for them in the US. Is there one?

Surprised not to see any recommendations for DT rims.

kazer,

thanks for the links. i remember reading your posts when you originally posted to BF and have since assumed your problems were isolated to a bad "batch" of rims. it does however make sense that the forces exerted on the rim from touring with a wider tire would cause the failure.

as it turns out, coincidently enough, i'm putting together a replica of what you're touring on: a 56cm LHT with 26" wheels and plan on running 2.0" marathon xr tires (2.25" xrs if i can find them). the plan is to ride through north and south america, sticking to backcountry dirt roads whenever possible.

looking at velocity's website, the pyscho seems to be unbelievably heavy (nearly a pound heavier per wheelset than the cliffhanger). if the shape of the rim is what was causing your problem, i'm wondering if the mountain goat (at 510 grams, although slightly more narrow than the cliffhanger) would be heavy-duty enough? my guess is the width would limit it's stoutness.

since your whole debacle with waiting around and swapping rims, what is your impression of the pyscho? have you come across any resounding recommendations for other rims just as durable that weight less? if you were starting from scratch all over again, what would you do?

your blog is incredible, by the way. great photos, great journal updates and pretty amazing dedication to post as often as you do. best of luck!

From my experience, it isn't the shape of the rim (deep v, box whatever) but the width. Wide tire + very heavy load = buy the widest rim you can. We've yet to have trouble with our front rims, Cliffhanger or Chukkers (when our rear rims initially failed Velocity replaced front and rear just in case). They see much less weight but they are running the same 2" tire at the same PSI (60).

I've never seen a bicycle rim as beefy as the Psycho anywhere. If I was starting over, I'd put them on our bikes, front and rear no questions asked. It is premature to say so, but so far our Pyscho rims are GREAT. I am confident they'll hold together for the duration of our tour (more than a year to go). If I wasn't planning a world tour where we were hauling tons of weight around, I might consider something lighter, I suppose. I wouldn't concern yourself too much with the weight of the wheels, touring at its finest isn't about going fast (at least, I think so).

RE: our blog
Thanks so much, we're having a blast writing it!

PS: Tara says, "I LOVE Carrboro!"

Also, please have a look at this photo (failed mavic 719):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tylerkellen/4302537445/

I'll be posting a blog entry about it at some point.

I complicated this 26" touring rim decision by choosing a 40 hole hub. Then I discovered how few 26" rims come with 40 holes. I bought Rhynolites, which have run for almost 5 years without needing to be trued. Then Sun stopped offering them with 40 holes. I bought some Aeroheats for next year when I have to replace the Rhynolies, but this discussion makes me wonder if I made the right choice. The tire is 1.6 Marathon Supreme, bike and gear = 100#, rider = 210#. It is only the rear wheel that is 40 hole. Phil Wood said I could send the hub in and have it changed to 36 hole, which might make sense. What do you think?

Thanks,
Tom

Tomn, I weigh about 225 plus 45lbs of gear. I mentioned above the aeroheats stayed true until the day they died which was only after a couple of years: about four weeks of touring and a little commuting. Much of the riding was on well graded roads. I am pretty careful about cleaning my pads and rims every time I take the wheels off so I was really surprised when I was pumping up the tires one day, Conit Travel Contacts 1.6 (or thereabouts) and heard a pop from having the rim wall separate. I for one believe a lighter wheel does make a difference which is why I purchased them. Maybe I got a bad one because the rim gets great reviews on MTBR.com, as does the Dyad, which is the same extrusion. I would be curious to find out what kind of mileage people who like them have put on them.

I would also like to suggest the Velocity Psycho rim or wheel set. It is a little heavier, 545g, but if you want a confidence inspired "worry free" rim, this is it.


135544

31.5mm wide to comfortably support a fat tire with a bigger foot print. availible in 20" and 26", machined or non-machined sidewall.

Every wheel set that Velocity builds is hand built to order and is covered under our worry free warranty. We've got your back!

if you have any questions, never hesitate to ask. velocity@velocityusa.com

Enjoy your day!

-MD-