Living Car Free - Public Transport Creates 25% more jobs than building roads

ILTB, you are a hoot! Take a deep breath man, there is life outside of this board.
When in doubt or without an intelligent response, cast an aspersion. Got it.

I think (and wrote) that a trolley line might encourage infill development if it's built through a low density area. I said that property values often rise along trolley lines, and what I said about corrupt politicians was meant to reinforce that premise. I never said anything positive about building transit as a make-work project to stimulate temporary construction employment.

If having decent public transit in more cities is a dream, I believe it is an important and obtainable dream. I also believe that well conceived public transit is a boon to a region's economy as well as a contributor to the convenience and well being of many individuals.

If you think otherwise, I'd love to hear your opinions, as I know you have more expertise than I do. But I really don't want any more of your personal attacks on me and others who write here in good faith.

BTW, what is IAW?
In accordance with, a commonly used abbreviation just like BTW.

You did NOT propose "well conceived public transit" plans, but rather building rail lines to relative nowhere in the hope of future development. I responded to what you wrote and what it said, not your thoughts or later clarifications about what you really meant to write.

And like David, you consider a response pointing out the problems with what you actually proposed (not what you were thinking about) as a personal attack or troll. Anything but acknowledge the gross problems with proposed simple New Age "solutions" ( with no regards to their practicability or viability) to complex economic and sociological problems.

When in doubt or without an intelligent response, cast an aspersion. Got it.

That is indeed one interpretation. :)

Another would be that my breath/time is wasted with you. I come to the Living Car Free forum to find support and encouragement in a set of ideals that I cannot easily find support for in real life. But you seem to stick around to take a big 5h1t on what other people hope will one day be a reality.

What gratification you draw from it is beyond me, so rather than figure that out my only other option is to dismiss everything that you spew, which is unfortunate because in there somewhere might be some useful knowledge.

That is indeed one interpretation. :)

Another would be that my breath/time is wasted with you. I come to the Living Car Free forum to find support and encouragement in a set of ideals that I cannot easily find support for in real life. But you seem to stick around to take a big 5h1t on what other people hope will one day be a reality.

What gratification you draw from it is beyond me, so rather than figure that out my only other option is to dismiss everything that you spew, which is unfortunate because in there somewhere might be some useful knowledge.


Should one not examine the ideals to which they prescribe with a magnifying glass? To make sure such ideals are in fact sound and with true merit, and not just empty shells that sound good?

I believe we should all challenge our ideas and examine them thoroughly on a regular basis. It's not always the most pleasant of tasks, but usually well worth the effort in the long haul.

Should one not examine the ideals to which they prescribe with a magnifying glass? To make sure such ideals are in fact sound and with true merit, and not just empty shells that sound good?

I believe we should all challenge our ideas and examine them thoroughly on a regular basis. It's not always the most pleasant of tasks, but usually well worth the effort in the long haul.

Modo: absolutely, I'm in total agreement and see true value in that. But the form with which ILTB argues points here provides little food for thought as much as it provides a you are wrong and look at what you said four posts ago mentality.

Incidentally, I've also done a quick search of the 12,000 some posts that ILTB has put up and frankly most of them either digress to this exact conversation or people ignore him. Wonder why that is?

Modo: absolutely, I'm in total agreement and see true value in that. But the form with which ILTB argues points here provides little food for thought as much as it provides a you are wrong and look at what you said four posts ago mentality.

Incidentally, I've also done a quick search of the 12,000 some posts that ILTB has put up and frankly most of them either digress to this exact conversation or people ignore him. Wonder why that is?
Little food for thought for someone looking only for consensus with his own set idea of what is "ideal". You are a poster boy for close-mindedness despite your protestations to the contrary.

Little food for thought for someone looking only for consensus with his own set idea of what is "ideal". You are a poster boy for close-mindedness despite your protestations to the contrary.

Talky talky...

If I weren't so lazy I'd put up the following poll.

Posters in Living Car Free are best characterized as

( ) "pusillanimous pusseyfooters"
( ) "nattering nabobs of negativism"
( ) "hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history"
( ) "an effete corps of impudent snobs"
( ) all of the above
( ) none of the above


(Hat tip to Pat Buchanan & William Safire, speechwriters for the late, great Spiro T Agnew!)

If I weren't so lazy I'd put up the following poll.

Posters in Living Car Free are best characterized as

( ) "pusillanimous pusseyfooters"
( ) "nattering nabobs of negativism"
( ) "hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history"
( ) "an effete corps of impudent snobs

(Hat tip to Pat Buchanan & William Safire, speechwriters for the late, great Spiro T Agnew!)You forgot: "e) all of the above"

You forgot: "e) all of the above"
Okay, I'll go back and fix it.

It's probably too late to get this thread back on track, but ... here's an article from today's Washington Post:


The generation that gave birth to suburbia and the two-car garage is reaching the age where for many driving no longer seems like such a swell option. As Americans grow older -- one in five will be over the age of 65 by 2030 -- many are finding that the world that lured them away from city life is losing some of its appeal.

"The concern is that when they no longer can drive they will find themselves trapped in their homes in suburban neighborhoods where there are no sidewalks or, if there are sidewalks, there's no place to walk to," said Stewart Schwartz, executive director of the Coalition for Smarter Growth.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/29/AR2009122901256.html

In order for suburbs to remain attractive for aging residents, it may therefore be a good idea for them to provide more support for car free living. (My opinion.)

It's probably too late to get this thread back on track, but ... here's an article from today's Washington Post:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/29/AR2009122901256.html

In order for suburbs to remain attractive for aging residents, it may therefore be a good idea for them to provide more support for car free living. (My opinion.)
This was the case with my own parents. A few years after retirement, they moved from a house on a lake, in the country, to a house in the central neighborhood of Traverse City--tree lined streets, sidewalks, close to the downtown. My dad is legally blind. Mom did the driving until she died. Now dad still owns a car, but it is driven only a few miles a week--mainly to take him to doctor appointments.

I wouldn't be surprised if public transit will be in more demand as the baby boomers age too. There's a new condo development in downtown Lansing that's being marketed for "empty nest" boomers. Their ads always say something about them being just a couple blocks from the bus station. They say "Leave your car in the garage all week"--which I guess is an appeal to people who want to be carlight.

If I weren't so lazy I'd put up the following poll.

Posters in Living Car Free are best characterized as

( ) "pusillanimous pusseyfooters"
( ) "nattering nabobs of negativism"
( ) "hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history"
(X) "an effete corps of impudent snobs"
( ) all of the above
( ) none of the above


(Hat tip to Pat Buchanan & William Safire, speechwriters for the late, great Spiro T Agnew!)

Is it really pusseyfooters or *****footers?

[EDIT]Wow... my text got censored. maybe it is pusseyfooters...

Anyway... my vote above.

This was the case with my own parents. A few years after retirement, they moved from a house on a lake, in the country, to a house in the central neighborhood of Traverse City--tree lined streets, sidewalks, close to the downtown. My dad is legally blind. Mom did the driving until she died. Now dad still owns a car, but it is driven only a few miles a week--mainly to take him to doctor appointments.

I wouldn't be surprised if public transit will be in more demand as the baby boomers age too. There's a new condo development in downtown Lansing that's being marketed for "empty nest" boomers. Their ads always say something about them being just a couple blocks from the bus station. They say "Leave your car in the garage all week"--which I guess is an appeal to people who want to be carlight.


It's probably too late to get this thread back on track, but ... here's an article from today's Washington Post:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/29/AR2009122901256.html

In order for suburbs to remain attractive for aging residents, it may therefore be a good idea for them to provide more support for car free living. (My opinion.)

I doubt there is much, if any way to make the suburbs work well with mass transit. FWIW we are already looking to the future and searching for a place in town that has mass transit (what little there is) that is convenient to the local doctors and hospitals. Unfortunately the town we live near has okay medical care but usually refers people to the University hospitals and hour+ away for many procedures. So we are looking at other options...

Aaron:)