Hybrid Bicycles - Braking

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BikeHealth
11-25-09, 01:58 PM
So I'm new to "seriously" riding bicycles and I just bought a Raleigh Detour 3.5. I have a question about braking. In the past when I was much younger (the last time I rode bikes on a regular basis), I always just used the rear brake. However, I notice that this causes skidding and I figure that the front brake is there for a reason. How do you use the brakes most efficiently? I have some inherent fear that if I use the front brake too much, I'll go flying off the bike but how much do I really need to use the brake for that to actually happen?
I read somewhere that I should do 75% front brake and 25% rear, but these are just numbers and don't really help me. What about hills? I'd assume going down hill would be the most likely chance of going over the handlebars with the front brake.
Anyone have any explanation or know of a good guide? Thanks.
trinamuous
11-25-09, 04:02 PM
http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html#frontorrear
Panthers007
11-25-09, 05:42 PM
The rear brake will slow you down and the front will stop you. Just using the rear brake will make stopping take longer. And just using the front brake can throw you over the handlebars. Apply the rear brake first - then apply the front.
A few years ago when I was riding purely for leisure I removed the rear brakes from my bike simply because I never used them. I have always learnt to rely solely on my front brakes, though a while ago I dented my front rim (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?536071-700x28C-tyres&p=8927068&viewfull=1#post8927068) although my LBS straightened the bump it still wasn't perfectly smooth, so I would use a little bit of the rear to stop. The front brakes still worked fine though, it was just a little rough while braking. I just replaced the rim last week and now I'm back on front only. I do agree that the rear brakes can be useful in very slippery conditions (mine are still attached on my current bike) , and I'm glad I knew all these long before I discovered Sheldon Brown.
meanwhile
11-26-09, 10:21 AM
The rear brake will slow you down and the front will stop you. Just using the rear brake will make stopping take longer. And just using the front brake can throw you over the handlebars. Apply the rear brake first - then apply the front.
No. The physics are such that is impossible to go over the bars if you keep your arms straight and firm - when people come over the bars it is because they let their weight move forwards or lost control in a skid. The link trinamous gave explains everything you need to know. (But it's easy to check the physics yourself - just apply conservation of energy and see how high your centre of mass would have to rise to absorb instant braking from, say, 30mph to 0 - it's not nearly enough to flip the bike.)
And some bikes have much better braking geometry than others - my old Kona cross country MTB can brake VERY fast on rear brakes alone, whereas the more modern Sirrus I owned for a while was awful.
desertdork
11-26-09, 11:38 AM
I certainly can't contribute anything beyond the information available at sheldonbrown or what is available by searching the forums, but I do want to reiterate one point. If you aquaint yourself with the front brake, you'll learn the value of the front brake firsthand. As you use the front brake more, you'll become better at modulating braking pressure under various conditions. In short time, it may become your primary brake; you'll be more comfortable with your braking technique, and you'll have more confidence in the stopping power of the front brake. You can also practice emergency braking by keeping your weight at the rear of the saddle with your arms preventing forward movement.
I know there are riders that use only the brake. But I've also had many situations which I'm certain would have been far worse than very close calls had I depended on just the rear brake or had limited experience with the front brake.
Panthers007
11-26-09, 12:29 PM
meanwhile: I dare you to grab the front-brake lever on my v-braked/Kool Stop-padded Trek - and squeeze hard at 20mph. Then we'll see about said hypothesis. But, of course, there are exceptions to be found. Some rear-brakes are excellent. Some front-brakes bite.
wunderkind
11-26-09, 12:42 PM
When you brake at high speeds, shift your butt rear wards.
meanwhile
11-26-09, 07:39 PM
meanwhile: I dare you to grab the front-brake lever on my v-braked/Kool Stop-padded Trek - and squeeze hard at 20mph. Then we'll see about said hypothesis.
Yes, I know that you think you're right. I got that from your post. You think you know how to brake hard - 99% of people who can't brake think the same thing. You'd benefit from reading the link. Really!
And no, your brake set up isn't especially powerful. It probably does have poor modulation - most v-brake set ups do. Personally I'd go with cantis or discs. Cantis are harder to maintain and disks need a strengthened frame, but they both have excellent modulation. Vs are cheap, work pretty well, and are don't require any skill to maintain. I'd consider kools and vee's a minimum set up.
As for what I'd expect to happen on any decent bike if I squeezed full on: a braking skid. Which is bad and can cause the rider to come off the bike. But you can brake much harder with the front than the back before this happens. Again, read the link.
Your "Apply the rear brake first - then apply the front" is dangerous voodoo. You can apply each brake up to the limit of the traction available at that wheel; during peak braking this will be higher at the front. You have to learn to control by feel - modulating to just below the point of a skid. If you think that I'm saying "Grab the brakes absolutely as hard as you can and don't worry" - NO! Braking needs skill - it's just that your method is wrong.
As for endoing:
A front brake can produce about 0.5g of deceleration. A rear is usually good for 0.1-0.2g. Gravity holds you down with 1.0g of force. This is more than 0.6-0.7g and will your bike down - as long as the leverage is the same for each. The only way that you can endo is to come far enough forwards so that leverage will let that 0.6g out weigh the 1.0g - meaning that you need to be far enough forwards so that your centre of mass is about twice as high as its distance from the front wheel's point of contact with the road.
If your bike can endo with good technique then the frame designer was incompetent - but he probably wasn't, and the fault is your technique - you're sliding forwards, possibly as the result of the bars twisting when you enter a braking skid. Or possibly you bought too small a bike, so your weight rides too high and not far enough back. A decent bike, used correctly, will NOT endo on the flat!
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