Living Car Free - not carfree but have a Q...

I am not car free. Heck, I'm not even car light, but I do bike rather than make unnecessary use of my vehicle.

I have read a lot here about living off the grid. I am considering supplementing my home with solar collectors and a wind generator or two.

Has anyone here tried either of these to reduce living expenses?

If you have, have you sold your surplus power to the power company?

I don't have any power sources, but the law requires the power company to buy your excess generation.

Hurry up and find out if your state has an incentive program. Some programs run out at the end of this calendar year.

You may not get a financial payback for several years. I'm not saying that to discourage you! But keep it in mind. It's an investment that pays off, but you won't have a low-cost year soon.

I am not car free. Heck, I'm not even car light, but I do bike rather than make unnecessary use of my vehicle.

I have read a lot here about living off the grid. I am considering supplementing my home with solar collectors and a wind generator or two.

Has anyone here tried either of these to reduce living expenses?

If you have, have you sold your surplus power to the power company?

I have done a bit of investigation into the power generation side of things. FWIW I live in the Sandhills region of NC. Windpower is not really feasible here, but solar and hydro are in my current location. The power company will specify what equipment you will need to feed back into the grid. It was going to add a good $5-8k to the cost of the system I was considering. At $.08 a kwh it will take one helluva long time to get any type of payback. YMMV. We are still toying with the idea of a new house that would be earth sheltered (primarily for cooling) utilizing a dual voltage electrical system. DC for lighting and AC for the few heavier appliances. Our plan is to use a small hydro plant to generate the AC and solar panels for the DC stuff. Cost still pretty substantial and won't see payback for quite a few years, but having dependable power that is not dependent on the grid is priceless in many cases.

Aaron:)

Due to the high cost of investment for both wind and solar power (and due to the low cost of energy in the USA), neither is practical for the home-user today. You can investigate cost/payback from the 1970's and little has changed nearly 40 years later. We could blame it on our government, but the truth is that low electricity and fossil fuel prices in the USA are probably most responsible for solar and wind power not being cost-effective when you do the ROE mathematics.


There are two possible exceptions. One is to have a solar powered water heater on your roof. This is a fairly low-cost device that can reduce gas/electrical consumption. Another is to have Solar heat boxes that pump warm air from solar collection boxes into the house. The problem is that they are usually unsightly and their contribution in the coldest winter months is questionable.

For fun, you can rig up your own windmill with old bicycle parts. Put an old bottle generator on it (from a bicyle generator light), and use the energy to light up your garage or maybe your Christmas tree with LED lights.

If you are looking to save money on energy, your money is better spent on conservation - motion detection lights INSIDE the house, get rid of all your old tungsten light bulbs, insullate your house, etc.

Finally, keep your car in the driveway and use your bike instead. As gasoline prices creep up over the $3.00/gallon mark, it is easy to save $10. to $20 per week on gasoline bills by using your bicycle to suppliment your driving. If you have a long drive commute, consider driving MOST of the way there, then bicycle the rest of the way and through the city. City driving uses the most fuel per mile.

I hear ya Mike. I do use the car less frequently. That does save some fuel.

I saw an add for a website selling a book on the topic. I have no affiliation with the site. It basically is a sales site selling a book on how to build your own power generating system. One item the book covers is how to apply for free power storage batteries. I may buy the book for some insight into this.

I hear ya Mike. I do use the car less frequently. That does save some fuel.

I saw an add for a website selling a book on the topic. I have no affiliation with the site. It basically is a sales site selling a book on how to build your own power generating system. One item the book covers is how to apply for free power storage batteries. I may buy the book for some insight into this.

Ask at the Library before you pay any money for insight. If they don't have it (the book you want) they can probably get it from another library. If you decide you need the book on your shelf as a reference, buy it then.

As I said, I'm working towards car-light, and it's in an experimental stage for me. I got a trailer a couple of months ago and have only used it twice so far. I just got home, using it for the second time. I went to Costco and got some pretty heavy and bulky stuff and rode home with it. I also went to the UPS store and the dry cleaner. I think I did about 10 miles round trip. It's in the 40's, Fahrenheit, and it's breezy, but that was no problem. I got to Costco right at sunset, so I rode home in the dark. I have a headlight and two taillights, and drivers were very accommodating to me.

It was hard and slow going, but I'm proud I was able to do it.

If you haven't yet, I highly recommend you read this thread: What Utility Rides/Trips/hauls/errands did you do today??? (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?537447-What-Utility-Rides-Trips-hauls-errands-did-you-do-today)

It's inspiring. There are some folks who do errands etc in far-from-idyllic climates.

Selling back energy to a power Co. ?? Don't bet on it. thet're not interested, they're in the bussiness to sell, not to comp. Just like a store won't take a load of locally grown apples to trade for bananas. Please do not listen to Al Gore or others. The point at which selling back to a smart grid for the most part, in most regions is a long way out.
In parts of Cal., it's pheasable for instance. The structure needed is about 40K for a large home. The govnt. will not be of help. Two idividuals I know out there do it and several hours at least per month are required to clean the panels. The off-set is realized in no less than ten years. I'm keeping simple here. Also I need to keep it brief, just food for thought.
As one member stated; wind not an option in parts of NC for instance, it won't be in Ohio either. For solar to be cost efficient, one must live BELOW 40 degrees latitude and even then 100 to 300 miles inland, depending on latitude. For a sense of it, consult frost maps. Ohio is marginally acceptable for solar as anywhere near a primary source, it's mostly above, well above 39 degrees. Not optimal.
OK, enough of the theory. One idea, at a cost of 2 to 3K, install a Solar Panel approx. 8 x 10 feet. In a place that receives optimum sunlight. Good for reducing your hot water bill 40 to $60 or more per month depending on how many teenagers live at home for instance. Now THAT'S where to start 'cause THAT'S what I know of best. The cost, depending on your abilty or availability; freighting of components, if it all can be partially assembled by you or at a given cost etc. Possibly could be "paid off" in about 3 or so years, just to help you guess. Not bad. These systems exist in the South and have for years.
Another misunderstood green energy is geo-thermal. Al, the dum dum Gore has that wrong too. Unless you live in Yellowstone National Park or Finland, geo-thermal as it's commonly thought of, isn't what I refer to. Geo thermal energy can be obtained by simply what our grandfathers called "Heat Pumps". So whether you live in SC or Maine, the temp. 2 to 6 ft. below the surface is a balmy 60 to 40 degrees respectively... just think about that.... transfering air of disparate temps is where it's at. Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall. Anytime throughout the year, 20 degrees one way or the other takes the edge off the temp. and the power bills. Modest heat pump systems friends of mine have designed are a thousand.

old and new, I am under the impression that the power companies buy power not because they're interested but because the law allows it. Am I mistaken?

Selling back energy to a power Co. ?? Don't bet on it. thet're not interested, they're in the bussiness to sell, not to comp. Just like a store won't take a load of locally grown apples to trade for bananas. Please do not listen to Al Gore or others. The point at which selling back to a smart grid for the most part, in most regions is a long way out.
In parts of Cal., it's pheasable for instance. The structure needed is about 40K for a large home. The govnt. will not be of help. Two idividuals I know out there do it and several hours at least per month are required to clean the panels. The off-set is realized in no less than ten years. I'm keeping simple here. Also I need to keep it brief, just food for thought.
As one member stated; wind not an option in parts of NC for instance, it won't be in Ohio either. For solar to be cost efficient, one must live BELOW 40 degrees latitude and even then 100 to 300 miles inland, depending on latitude. For a sense of it, consult frost maps. Ohio is marginally acceptable for solar as anywhere near a primary source, it's mostly above, well above 39 degrees. Not optimal.
OK, enough of the theory. One idea, at a cost of 2 to 3K, install a Solar Panel approx. 8 x 10 feet. In a place that receives optimum sunlight. Good for reducing your hot water bill 40 to $60 or more per month depending on how many teenagers live at home for instance. Now THAT'S where to start 'cause THAT'S what I know of best. The cost, depending on your abilty or availability; freighting of components, if it all can be partially assembled by you or at a given cost etc. Possibly could be "paid off" in about 3 or so years, just to help you guess. Not bad. These systems exist in the South and have for years.
Another misunderstood green energy is geo-thermal. Al, the dum dum Gore has that wrong too. Unless you live in Yellowstone National Park or Finland, geo-thermal as it's commonly thought of, isn't what I refer to. Geo thermal energy can be obtained by simply what our grandfathers called "Heat Pumps". So whether you live in SC or Maine, the temp. 2 to 6 ft. below the surface is a balmy 60 to 40 degrees respectively... just think about that.... transfering air of disparate temps is where it's at. Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall. Anytime throughout the year, 20 degrees one way or the other takes the edge off the temp. and the power bills. Modest heat pump systems friends of mine have designed are a thousand.

IIRC power companies are REQUIRED by federal law to purchase surplus power from anybody that generates it, however, they do get to specify the equipment required to feed back into the grid. SAS (http://www.sas.com/) (software and business analytics firm) has a fair sized solar farm in Cary, NC and they do put power back into the grid. I don't recall the cost but it was not cheap.

I believe that the answer lies in conservation first, through a variety of means, then utilizing local options that will work for your area. I have helped install geothermal heat pump systems that used three different types of cooling, one was pumping water up from a well then discharging into a pond, another used a loop with an exchange fluid in it, that was buried about 6' down in a loop around the property, the other used the closed loop but put it in a vertical well. All the systems were expensive to install and were a PITA to get passed by the local agencies. There are lots of options out there, but until most non renewable energy sources become more expensive people are not going to seek out the alternates on a large scale.

Aaron:)

IIRC power companies are REQUIRED by federal law to purchase surplus power from anybody that generates it, however, they do get to specify the equipment required to feed back into the grid. SAS (http://www.sas.com/) (software and business analytics firm) has a fair sized solar farm in Cary, NC and they do put power back into the grid. I don't recall the cost but it was not cheap.

Yes, I think you're right. And I believe that one purpose of the "smart grid" that Pres. Obama is always talking about is to allow a better transfer of power from independant producers to the grid. I agree with your point (in this ssame post) about the overriding importance of conservation. But I can also foresee a day when a significant portion of renewable power is produced by small companies, taking advantage of localconditions. Also, it's more efficient for homeowners to be able to transfer excess power rather than store it onsite, for example during exceptionally sunny or windy periods.