Foo - one less piesce of **** to worry about

I for one am extremely glad he's dead. :thumb:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34194122/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts?GT1=43001

Sorry dude. I had to fix your title.

+1000000000000000000000000000000 :thumb:


And in my "berg" no less! :mad:

Sorry dude. I had to fix your title.

apologies Siu, I titled it without thinking. No disrespect. =0)

He didn't even get beaten up?

Well, I'm glad he's dead, too.

Sorry dude. I had to fix your title.

at least you could have fixed his spelling to :D

too:D

He was "wlaking dead" the moment he shot the cops. He could have walked into a police station naked with his hands cuffed, flanked by 2 lawyers, and they would have still found a reason to kill him.

He was "wlaking dead" the moment he shot the cops. He could have walked into a police station naked with his hands cuffed, flanked by 2 lawyers, and they would have still found a reason to kill him.

Oh they had a reason, he killed four cops!

too:D

Ha! see, we all make mistakes. ;0)

justice served

The state of Washington should contribute the cost savings of not having to have a trial to the fund for the families of the slain police officers.

Oh, and KT don't feel too smug I think it's burg not "berg" :D

Yep glad he got what he deserved. Hope the belly shot was painful. But man there are a lot of unanswered questions that need to be addressed. Why was he even walking the streets? How was a felon able to get a hand gun? Where the Hell was he able to 150g's to post his bail? Bet Huckabee is feeling like **** for letting this low life walk from prison.

[admin edit: Had to fix your spelling too!]

Oh, and KT don't feel too smug I think it's burg not "berg" :DYou are assuming I didn't do that on purpose. It was cooold this morning....felt like an iceberg. :rolleyes:


OK...you caught me......:o

Glad to see so many people are willing to let cops be judge, jury and executioner.

Glad to see so many people are willing to let cops be judge, jury and executioner.

oh, 'accused,' ''suspected,' 'convicted,' 'alleged' - let's not quibble over little details.:rolleyes:
















If we're talking justice served I say let the bear eat this guy in peace (http://news.aol.com/article/bear-attacks-man-in-switzerland-park/778664)

too:D


too.

too:D


too.

/\ two /\

teux?

/\ two /\

Sorry dude. I had to fix your title.

But the spelling mistake is still there. Or was it the addition of asterisks :) ?

I sure wouldn't miss Maurice, but where I come from,


The officer approached the car, then detected movement behind him, recognized the suspect Maurice Clemmons and ordered him to show his hands and stop. "He wouldn't stop," Pugel said. "The officer fired several rounds, took the person into custody."


would not fly.

Shooting someone because they would not stop is not justifiable. The officer must be in immediate danger.

'i' before 'e' except in words

Consider, though, there was already a massive manhunt for this guy who was considered ARMED and EXTREMELY DANGEROUS! That may not fly under normal circumstances, but when there is already a manhunt for the guy, he's considered EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, the officer is without any backup.......I don't think I blame him.

It's not about the cop being judge, jury and executioner as UA said....that's not it at all. This guy is already on the loose with an extremely large manhunt, considered to be one dangerous and armed SOB. If an officer encountered him alone and the guy didn't stop....what are you going to do (as the cop)? Granted, it would be better to shoot him non-fatally, but its not like he had a lot of time to think about it. Considering all the circumstances, he surely thought his life was in danger from the suspect.




I sure wouldn't miss Maurice, but where I come from,



would not fly.

Shooting someone because they would not stop is not justifiable. The officer must be in immediate danger.

Another factor to consider (which could go both ways) is that tension was already pretty high because something similar to this just happened a few weeks ago too. Some nut job tried to kill two cops in something like a drive by. He killed one of the two police in the car. So these cops just lost one about two weeks before this new guy killed four more.

Tensions were probably much higher than normal.

Consider, though, there was already a massive manhunt for this guy who was considered ARMED and EXTREMELY DANGEROUS! That may not fly under normal circumstances, but when there is already a manhunt for the guy, he's considered EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, the officer is without any backup.......I don't think I blame him.

It's not about the cop being judge, jury and executioner as UA said....that's not it at all. This guy is already on the loose with an extremely large manhunt, considered to be one dangerous and armed SOB. If an officer encountered him alone and the guy didn't stop....what are you going to do (as the cop)? Granted, it would be better to shoot him non-fatally, but its not like he had a lot of time to think about it. Considering all the circumstances, he surely thought his life was in danger from the suspect.

Before anyone starts putting words in my mouth, I don't object to this guy being shot if, indeed, that's what needed to happen to subdue him. What I object to are the statements that because he allegedly shot 4 cops, he deserved to be executed rather than receiving any sort of fair trial. That's not the country I want to live in, where people can kill because others "deserve it." Killing shouldn't be taken lightly, no matter what someone else is perceived to have done.

Glad to see so many people are willing to let cops be judge, jury and executioner.
+1 If he came at a cop w/ a gun, it's justifiable. If he was recognized and executed on the spot, that's BS.

Another factor to consider (which could go both ways) is that tension was already pretty high because something similar to this just happened a few weeks ago too. Some nut job tried to kill two cops in something like a drive by. He killed one of the two police in the car. So these cops just lost one about two weeks before this new guy killed four more.

Tensions were probably much higher than normal.
So? That's not a good excuse at all. If he was shot because "tensions were high," the officer needs to be removed from the police force. I expect a completely different standard from someone who has so much authority and power than I do from the average guy on the street.

Sorry if it made it sound like I was putting words in your mouth. I didn't mean it that way.

I agree with you 100% that suspects shouldn't be shot. That's not how our system works.

But what I was trying to say is that this guy was ARMED and EXTREMELY DANGEROUS with a massive manhunt. The officer surely feared for his life. He may not have "seen" a gun at that point, but the guy was already considered armed.



Before anyone starts putting words in my mouth, I don't object to this guy being shot if, indeed, that's what needed to happen to subdue him. What I object to are the statements that because he allegedly shot 4 cops, he deserved to be executed rather than receiving any sort of fair trial. That's not the country I want to live in, where people can kill because others "deserve it." Killing shouldn't be taken lightly, no matter what someone else is perceived to have done.

I wasn't using that info to justify his actions by any means. Closer to the contrary. I was only showing it as another factor that plays in to the event.


So? That's not a good excuse at all. If he was shot because "tensions were high," the officer needs to be removed from the police force. I expect a completely different standard from someone who has so much authority and power than I do from the average guy on the street.

Sorry if it made it sound like I was putting words in your mouth. I didn't mean it that way.

I agree with you 100% that suspects shouldn't be shot. That's not how our system works.

But what I was trying to say is that this guy was ARMED and EXTREMELY DANGEROUS with a massive manhunt. The officer surely feared for his life. He may not have "seen" a gun at that point, but the guy was already considered armed.
I just wanted to put the kibosh on it before anyone started. It usually happens like that. I say something, I'm accused of coddling criminals, etc...

I just wanted to put the kibosh on it before anyone started. It usually happens like that. I say something, I'm accused of coddling criminals, etc...

well, if you weren't such a pansy to 'em......


:p

The state of Washington should contribute the cost savings of not having to have a trial to the fund for the families of the slain police officers.

Oh, and KT don't feel too smug I think it's burg not "berg" :D

Only one true "Burgh", but who's counting?

I don't care about should or shouldn't have. He killed 4 police officers.
The world is a better place without him in it.

The point UA is making is that he allegedly killed four police officers. You don't kill somebody because you "think" he did it. And it's a very VALID point.


I don't care about should or shouldn't have. He killed 4 police officers.
The world is a better place without him in it.


The point *I* was making is that even if he didn't do it....there was a massive manhunt for the guy, he was considered armed and extremely dangerous, the officer who shot him was alone (no backup), and the guy wouldn't stop when the officer told him to. The officer was well justified for feeling his life was threatened and therefore it was legit to shoot the guy, IMO.

Only one true "Burgh", but who's counting?

Edinburgh?

Pitts-

Edinburgh?


Pitts-

Gatlinburg? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatlinburg,_Tennessee)
Gettysburg? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg,_Pennsylvania)?
Pittsburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburg,_California)(CA)?
Saint Petersburg, Russia? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg)
Saint Petersburg, FL? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg,_Florida)

Gatlinburg? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatlinburg,_Tennessee)
Gettysburg? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg,_Pennsylvania)?
Pittsburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburg,_California)(CA)?
Saint Petersburg, Russia? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg)
Saint Petersburg, FL? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg,_Florida)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......burger...................

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_k_Z7WTASFnc/R4RUfkboH0I/AAAAAAAAAME/la39wVBxxQo/s1600/drooling_homer.png

Pitts-

Sorry, i should have put a winkey-smiley-thingy in.

Anyway, back on topic.


The point UA is making is that he allegedly killed four police officers. You don't kill somebody because you "think" he did it. And it's a very VALID point.


Agreeance


The point *I* was making is that even if he didn't do it....there was a massive manhunt for the guy, he was considered armed and extremely dangerous, the officer who shot him was alone (no backup), and the guy wouldn't stop when the officer told him to. The officer was well justified for feeling his life was threatened and therefore it was legit to shoot the guy, IMO.
More agreeance.

He's dead. Oh dear. So sad. Never mind.

The point UA is making is that he allegedly killed four police officers. You don't kill somebody because you "think" he did it. And it's a very VALID point.




The point *I* was making is that even if he didn't do it....there was a massive manhunt for the guy, he was considered armed and extremely dangerous, the officer who shot him was alone (no backup), and the guy wouldn't stop when the officer told him to. The officer was well justified for feeling his life was threatened and therefore it was legit to shoot the guy, IMO.


I like my simple version better. Much less thinking.
Obviously there is a reason I stay away from p&r.

Well I would say I hate that for him, but well I'm all for LEO doing what's right.

First, the article about the shooting of Clemmons isn't very clear to me. I understand several rounds were fired, but I'm not clear where he was shot, or how many times. I HOPE the lone officer did not make a lethal shot (if it wasn't absolutely necessary), but then, it doesn't always take a "lethal" shot to kill someone, especially considering he already sustained a torso wound in a struggle with one of the victims in the 4-cop shooting.

Before anyone starts putting words in my mouth, I don't object to this guy being shot if, indeed, that's what needed to happen to subdue him. What I object to are the statements that because he allegedly shot 4 cops, he deserved to be executed rather than receiving any sort of fair trial. That's not the country I want to live in, where people can kill because others "deserve it." Killing shouldn't be taken lightly, no matter what someone else is perceived to have done.well said.

Glad to see so many people are willing to let cops be judge, jury and executioner.

I would love to see how you would react if you were in the Police officers shoes.

I would love to see how you would react if you were in the Police officers shoes.

see, this is why I am not a cop. I'd be too jumpy...I'd shoot anything even remotely scary


I have a lot of respect for Police officers. For every Amadou Diallo or Rodney King there are a lot of well-executed arrests where no one gets hurt. But the police are not infallible. And real life is not a Clint Eastwood film; every human deserves a trial, regardless of what they've allegedly done.

see, this is why I am not a cop. I'd be too jumpy...I'd shoot anything even remotely scary.SisterCop is still afraid of monsters in the basement (but not armed bad guys strung out on drugs. go figure). She's getting this for xmas:
http://www.childtoysstore.com/images/Monsters%20Inc%20DVD.jpg

Same on local news this morning......it was so quick after it happened that much of the information was not yet released or known. It just happened early this morning (PST).

Here is a local news site's story with (perhaps...haven't read yet myself) updated information.
http://www.king5.com/news/Police-fatally-shoot-suspect-78210277.html


First, the article about the shooting of Clemmons isn't very clear to me. I understand several rounds were fired, but I'm not clear where he was shot, or how many times. I HOPE the lone officer did not make a lethal shot (if it wasn't absolutely necessary), but then, it doesn't always take a "lethal" shot to kill someone, especially considering he already sustained a torso wound in a struggle with one of the victims in the 4-cop shooting.
well said.

Here's the way I see it. If a cop genuinely believes his life is in danger from a suspect, then he's entitled to take action, up to an including taking out that suspect. I doubt there are too many of us who would dispute that.

The problem arises when a cop kills a suspect and then 'say's he genuinely believed his life was in danger. Do we automatically believe him? I know many people who would say "Yes. Cops are always in the right." Unfortunately, experience has shown us that's not always the case. In recent years Denver police have made the news several times after fatally shooting suspects in cases where evidence suggests there was little or no justifiable threat. Some of them at least, appear to be a little too quick to shoot first and declare afterwords "I thought I was in danger".

Am I sorry this guy is dead? No, not really. Does that mean I support the idea of cops deciding who should be executed without trial? Nope, I don't.

So what it comes down to is...did this cop genuinely fear for his life, or did he just want to rid the planet of someone he believed to be a cop-killer. Aye, there's the rub.

So what it comes down to is...did this cop genuinely fear for his life, or did he just want to rid the planet of someone he believed to be a cop-killer. Aye, there's the rub.Cops are held accountable for their actions, too. Sounds like that's what the judge & jury will be deciding in this case :thumb:

Here is a local news site's story with (perhaps...haven't read yet myself) updated information.
http://www.king5.com/news/Police-fatally-shoot-suspect-78210277.htmlSame story, from the AP:

The vehicle was running but unoccupied when the officer pulled up, radioed in the license plate number and realized the car was stolen, Pugel said.
The officer saw something moving, got out of his car, saw Clemmons and ordered him to show his hands and stop. Instead, Clemmons ran.
"He wouldn't stop," Pugel said. "The officer fired several rounds."

I'm rather pleased that my tax money will be spent on an incedent report instead of a lifetime of incarceration and repeated appeals/insanity pleas.