Training & Nutrition - For those of you who cycle 6000+ miles a year..

What does your training program look like??

I'm rehabbing a knee injury at the moment. Two months since the pain started and it's still there. I've realised how weak my legs are, even when I was doing tough rides several times a week. I wasn't doing any work on core strength, a proper stretching routine, or anything else.

The pain's still there, all around both knees. And it feels like stretching and strengthening sometimes make it worse.

I'm not going to start riding again untill atleast late March/early April. But in the meantime I want to progress to a better training program, a cyclist's program.


What's yours like? What do you do/how often/how long for? Do you take many days/weeks out at a time? etc, etc..

Detailed answers would be great.

Thanks.




Should also say my muscles and tendons have been aching for months.

I took three days off before today, to give them some rest. Then today I stretched all muscle groups and did a few wall squats, nothing intense. And now my calves and quads are very sore. Like a burning sensation deep within the muscles. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. :(

I ride a road bike. Never stretched. The only times my knees hurt was when I had raised my saddle Up 2 inches. Rest when you need too. The more you ride the stronger you will become.
15,550 miles ytd.

I wish i could get away with that. Do you do much hill work?

Any VMO/hamstring exercises?

98% of my rides are on flat roads.
219 rides this year, with an average of 70.7 miles per ride.
I am retired at 67 y/o and enjoy the rides.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Exercise--Fitness/Sporadic-Calf-Muscle-Soreness-and-Stiffness-in-both-legs-at-once/show/7891

^^Massive medhelp thread about sore, tight calves. This is a major obstacle to my training routine. It's becoming more and more common that rest is my only option! :(

I only ride 4-5000, but have many friends who ride more, up to 30,000. The majority of high mileage riders I know just ride their bikes. That how you get high mileage. Other sorts of messing about take time away from biking. Everyone around here does lots of hill work. One buddy is shooting for 1.5M' of climbing this year. OTOH, I do see more injuries among the high mileage folks - esp. knees (RSI) and clavicles and hips (accidental). Ya do what ya gotta do to satisfy your jones.

I've ridden that sort of distance for a number of years in the past ... but not recently because of university.

I created charts of the years I rode a lot, and posted them here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14302884@N04/sets/72157602327321906/detail/

The spikes in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 are 1200K randonnees.

That's the cycling part of riding those distances. In addition to that, I walked a lot, I did some weightlifting, I did various winter sports like cross-country skiing and snowshoeing, and I attended yoga classes.

So here's a suggestion ... find a GOOD yoga class, one that does a lot of stretching poses, one recommended by people who do other sports, and start attending once or twice a week. I had a great instructor in Winnipeg whose son cycled so she knew the sorts of stretches and things that would work well for me. And she showed me how to do it all so that I did not hurt myself.

And another suggestion ... if you're going to do weightlifting, find a GOOD gym and someone who will show you around and show you how to do the various exercises. If you do them wrong you can hurt yourself ... and unfortunately some gyms and their staff don't seem to care. I trained for two years with an amature bodybuilder and learned how to stand (or sit, or lie) properly for each exercise so that I got the most out of it without hurting myself.

And finally ... have someone who really knows look at your bicycle fit. It still sounds to me that it is not right. Can you take a photo of you on the bicycle and post it here?

Thanks for your replies.

I got a nasty pain in my right Achilles earlier as I was climbing stairs at work, then a veery slow walk back home.

I may have to quit my job, as I'm finding the walk to work harder each day, it made me a little late today. I'll wait 'til Thursday to make that decision though as I'm off until then.

I have no idea what to do in the meantime. Two months ago I started physio prescribed stretching and strengthening, to rehab my knees. Then my calves and quads got sore (although they've been sore to some extent for many months, I just biked through it). So I stopped stretching last week. Now my knee pain has worsened (because the muscles have returned to their 'normal' tight state?).


If I rest ---> tight muscles, gradual muscle atrophy ---> knees continue to worsen.

If I stretch ---> more damage to the muscles, more strain on the tendons which already feel like they're on the brink.

I may be very wrong here, this is just my guess based on what I've read online.


I've taken all your advice on board Machka, but I won't be able to use it for several weeks at best.

Before I get back on my bike I will do yoga or pilates daily for several months, and I'll post a video so you can see if there are any bike fit issues.

Physio this wednesday, I need some good news.

OK, this is all massively bizzare. Something odd is going on. Can you take it from the top, enfilade?

What do you eat on a normal day - sample menu?
What supplements, if any, do you take, whether on a daily basis or not?
What supplements have you tried without results?
Remind us of the results of your most recent doctor visit.
What tests, if any, have been done? With what results?
You're on the NHS, right?
What seems to make the problem worse?
Does anything seem to make the problem better?
Anything else you can think of . . .
Don't forget to post that photo of you posed on your bike, crankarms aligned with the seat tube, hands on hoods.

OK, this is all massively bizzare. Something odd is going on. Can you take it from the top, enfilade?

What do you eat on a normal day - sample menu?

Pint of water as soon as I get up, every day. then porridge. no prepacked crap, real ingredients. large helping.
then 2-3 other meals thoughtout the day.

Plenty of good carbs - Potatoes, wholemeal bread, rice, pasta (white). Oven chips occassionally.

Protein - Cut meat (exc. fish) from my diet one year ago. Milk daily (in porridge), eggs, fish (mackerel, tuna), baked beans, cheese, vege sausages (not Quorn). I don't have many sources of protein, so I usually just choose the one I had longest ago (usually 2 or 3 days ago! :rolleyes:)

Fruit and Veg - Apples, oranges, bananas, etc. Whatever's cheap and in season. Too many fruits to name.

Fewer sources of veg, but still several things. Peas, sweetcorn, carrots. A few others every now and then... lots of spring cabbage today.

Not perfect but I think I have a pretty good diet.

What supplements, if any, do you take, whether on a daily basis or not?

Daily.. glucosamine and cod liver oil, for the past 2 months.

What supplements have you tried without results?

Even if things improve fast, how will I know whether it's the supplements? It's always puzzled me that, when people say, 'I took this for 2 weeks and my problem dissappeared' ..'Well it might have dissappeared anyway, right?' :)

Remind us of the results of your most recent doctor visit.

I was given a balancing exercise to do. She went through it with me, but it was a short session. The knee was improving then, so she just told me to keep doing what I'm doing.

What tests, if any, have been done? With what results?

Nothing as of yet. However the doctors clinic said today that I can book an appointment to get my blood tested, just to rule out any condition.

You're on the NHS, right?

Yep.

What seems to make the problem worse?

Sitting for too long.. always made the knees (top of tibia and medial area around patella) painful. Past week - sitting for too long gives me pins and needles in my feet and lower leg (both sides). Also have pins and needles when I step out of bed in the morning.

Walking or standing too long

Stairs - currently walking down backwards because of calf pain.

Did something stupid last night. I took a hot bath, as it helped the knees a few weeks ago. However the calves didn't like it one bit. Live and learn I guess.. (could this mean swelling in the calves?). I iced them after this.

Does anything seem to make the problem better?

With the knees it's pretty hit and miss. They'll feel much improved one day then take a turn for the worse without me changing anything.

I noticed, my knees felt as if they were tracking better right up until I stopped stretching leg muscles. With the lack of stretching recently they seem to have gotten worse again.

Anything else you can think of . . .

Yeah actually, I've got a massage booked for this Wednesday. I'm going to call and move it back a few weeks though to allow some healing first


Also, big point, I did some foam rolling before the calves started playing up. It wasn't intense but probably too much. Calves have felt 'sore' for many months. I thought rolling would aid the healing process?

Don't forget to post that photo of you posed on your bike, crankarms aligned with the seat tube, hands on hoods.

I'll do that before any riding



(have to include this because it's saying the message entered is too short to post, and it needs lengthening beyond 2 characters)

Also, maybe I was stretching too aggressively. My flexibility improved very quickly up until calf injury. Perhaps I was stretching too much/often for tissue to regenerate.


I'm going to start Yoga too. Too poor for actual classes but I've found a good channel on youtube if anyone else is interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS-9fXmUt-c&feature=PlayList&p=99540D01CF7FDD83&index=0

(have to include this because it's saying the message entered is too short to post, and it needs lengthening beyond 2 characters)Yes, the inablility to easily interleave comments is a problem with this posting system. You have to copy and paste the beginning and ending "[QUOTE]" bits at the beginning and ending of each separate comment to which you wish to reply.

OK, enough of fooling around on message boards like this. I think it's time to get terrified and start camping out in your doctor's waiting room. The pins and needles thing is what got to me. Also the hot bath story. Your diet looks great, especially for living in the UK! Everything you're doing is great. The results you are getting from even the slightest attempts at self-help are scary. None of this should be happening. You are not nor have you been doing anything wrong. The fact that it's getting worse the more you rest and attempt to intermittently exercise is not good, not good. Take a look at this:
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/artic/ninds_paresthesia_information_page_ninds.htm
Get thee to a physician! I'd start with an emergency walk-in clinic if necessary. Get yourself into the system as someone who has a serious problem that needs diagnosis. And let your friends here know how it goes.

Yes, the inablility to easily interleave comments is a problem with this posting system. You have to copy and paste the beginning and ending "[QUOTE]" bits at the beginning and ending of each separate comment to which you wish to reply.

OK, enough of fooling around on message boards like this. I think it's time to get terrified and start camping out in your doctor's waiting room. The pins and needles thing is what got to me. Also the hot bath story. Your diet looks great, especially for living in the UK! Everything you're doing is great. The results you are getting from even the slightest attempts at self-help are scary. None of this should be happening. You are not nor have you been doing anything wrong. The fact that it's getting worse the more you rest and attempt to intermittently exercise is not good, not good. Take a look at this:
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/artic/ninds_paresthesia_information_page_ninds.htm
Get thee to a physician! I'd start with an emergency walk-in clinic if necessary. Get yourself into the system as someone who has a serious problem that needs diagnosis. And let your friends here know how it goes.

Thanks for the good support. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about some chronic condition, but more than that I'm kicking myself for the months of improper training. Won't that explain the state I'm in now? I mean, I didn't have a training routine back then. I'd done lots of reading about nutrition, I hadn't done much reading about cycling technique, and I'd done none on stretching/strengthening/anatomy/injuries, etc. If I had, I would've seen this injury approaching months beforehand.

I thought, I'm young, healthy, good body weight, great cardio system. Injuries? I'll worry about that when I hit 40. I was in some degree of pain most days after my first 'big' ride 3 months ago. I didn't condition myself for it at all. I thought, because I'd done a 30 mile ride three days ago, my body's had time to heal. I can go out and do a 35 mile ride now. I thought that was the basic principle behind building bodystrength. I didn't even know what the muscles were called and which ones were used in cycling.

It's ignorance that's got me into this mess, but the silver lining is that I know more about training now. When I get back on the bike, I'll start with a two mile ride around town, with good warm up and stretching either side of it, then take a 4+ day break. I don't care if the whole of 2010 is spent in this way, as long as I regain my full strength eventually.. something which I've never had, due to years of abuse.

That's just reminded me of another thing.. technique, I was mashing up hills with platform pedals, using muscles that were burning and probably full of microtears, I didn't know this was a bad thing, I though 'push on, this will make you stronger'. I could go on, but the main point is that I overtrained (even when doing my physio stretches).

Yes, I'm in a bad way, I'm worried and nervous, but the doctors have said that they're not worried about a serious immediate problem. If I get worse, I will go to the docs straight away. Apart from that there's nothing to be done but wait it out. If my calves are partially torn it'll be weeks before I feel better again. If after several months of rest/stretching etc my muscles are sore I will be pressing them for answers.

I don't know, enfilade. I don't like the sound of it, simply because I've never run across these kinds of complaints outside of a disabled athletes facility. I know people with these sorts of complaints and some of them go to the disabled world championships. If you think you should continue to self-medicate, please try whey protein, about 50-60g/day, distributed in small doses. What you are going through could perhaps be attributed to inadequate protein, considering the amount of rebuilding you are asking your body to do. Maybe it won't make any difference, but it can't hurt you to try it. Go out an buy a pound of some flavored stuff you can just mix into water with a spoon. More self-medication: selenium - 100mcg/day, 2 ea. 500mg calcium/250mg magnesium/200IU vit. D per day and the biggest multiple you can find.

If those interventions don't make a noticeable difference in a week, there is something wrong.

Your theory of how to get in shape should have worked. Like you say, you're pretty young. I'm just saying, IME improper training does not explain the state you're in.

I'll up the food intake a bit. I think I get enough calcium, etc. Plenty of milk daily and cheese every 2-3 days.

I don't think there's anything else I can do except go to Accident and Emergency. They'd triage me and I'd have to wait 4 hours before I saw someone, then they'd send me home with Ibuprofen or something. It's happened before, when I had a head injury.

Everyone sais 'go to the doctors' too often. I've lost my faith in the NHS, there's nothing they will do. I'm going to spend this whole weekend in my room, doing very gentle stretches on my upper legs, maybe start doing yoga on the upper body. Gentle rehab. I think this has the greatest chance of success, even if it does take months.

If my pins and needles persist though I'll go to the hospital. Although what do they do about that? They'll tell me I've got growing pains or something equally patronizing.

I'll also get a good multivitamin like you say, although, I'm afraid I'll be overdosing on the Vitamin C (500mg with the glucosamine, glass of orange/pink grapefruit juice, apples, oranges, peas, etc, and most likely another 500mg with the multivitamin. I'd be getting over 2000% of my RDA :/ )

Yeah it's getting worse, and my heartbeat's irregular. I'm gonna go to the hospital.

NHS will help you, but it's like any medical system: they want to help people, which means not wasting time on those who show up and demand treatment, but who aren't sick.

I forgot to mention that it's possible that it's something as simple as vitamin B12 deficiency. You did quit eating meat and as far as I can tell, didn't replace it with another good B12 source. Though B12 deficiency usually takes a long time to present, some people seem more sensitive than others. My diet is about like yours, though I take a good multiple and during high training stress, I sometimes add a B complex with 50mcg of B12. Recommended.

Don't worry about ODing on Vit. C. A gram a day is not that much. Some people take 3g/day with no ill effects. It is possible to OD on calcium, but it takes a while for it to build up. The magnesium and vitamin D are actually more important.

When I was young and training for Nordic skiing, for breakfast I'd have 2 pieces of toast and jam, 3 eggs, 12 ounces of OJ, and two 12 oz. glasses of whole milk. That's the scale I'm talking about. Whey protein and pills can give a lot of that nutrition without the calories, if that's what's necessary. But eating food is good.

I hope things go well at the hospital.

They said there's nothing they can do for me immediately. They didn't rule out a more serious cause, but they said the next step is to do some tests. So hopefully that'll be on Monday. Very small hospital so I might have to wait longer for appointments/results

Is vitamin B found in any of my regular protein foods? I checked the butter tub and there's a fair amount of added vitamins and minerals in there. I get about 50% of my B12 RDA in that alone. Still, next time I'm at the health food shop I'll pick up a B complex vitamin.

What you said in the last paragraph - Calories aren't an issue at all, the more the better, for me. I'd rather take bigger portions of natural protein foods than supplements where possible. I'm not too worried about protein deficiency. I'm only 125lbs and I get a decent amount of protein with each meal (typically: porridge in the morning.. 2 eggs for lunch.. lots of beans, cheese or fish in the evening - That's an average day. When biking I'll have some more)

They said up at the hospital they'll do the blood and urea tests, etc. If they all come back negative. They'll take it further and do an MRI (That'll be several months away). If that finds nothing wrong with ligaments, tendons and cartilage then it's likely that the muscles are the problem. It could take 6 months to heal if that's the case. And about the pins and needles, she said it could be any number of things, but is rarely caused by a chronic condition. I'll report back when I have my test results. Cheers.

My plan. Just put in the miles. . Each ride get in some miles with higher cadence....
.. . At least once a week , should the weather permit, get in a really tough climb of at least 1000 feet or more of grades no less than 6 %..
that should be enough to not make me feel like a stranger on the bike...

B12: http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp
So check your porridge to see if it's fortified with B12.

So you're in the system! Great.

I've been reading up on Compartment Syndrome and it looks like a real possibility. I have all the common symptoms of CCS (Chronic Compartement Syndrome). I thought for a while I just had 'strained calves', but it's been 10 weeks since I cycled and I've done little exertive exercise since then. Past 3 weeks I've only been doing mild stretching. It's very bad when I put weight on my legs or stretch a little bit too far (by accident) .. I stopped stretching calves 1 week ago.

Walking is difficult now and I have to go downstairs backwards to avoid pain. Majority of pain is in the Gastrocnemeus. There's no pain when I take pressure off the calves, like when I'm lying in bed or sat on a chair.

Also I've been waking up with pins and needles for the past few weeks. I've told my physio this, and my doctor, but they weren't too concerned, they didn't do an examination. I can't really blame them for this, because there's nothing to see. Everything looks fine, but it feels very bad :(. I'm up for blood tests on the 17th, but I'm going to go to the docs again on Monday, and again that week if nothing changes.

Anyway, if you could tell me your experiences with this type of injury and what to expect..

Thanks

You don't need a "training program" to ride a lot... just ride a lot. You only need to train if you want to ride fast.

You don't need a "training program" to ride a lot... just ride a lot. You only need to train if you want to ride fast.

That's what I was doing before, and it's the reason Im injured. I wasn't training for a race or anything, I was just going out on a ride every few days. I need to "train" so I can avoid injury in the future.

That's what I was doing before, and it's the reason Im injured. I wasn't training for a race or anything, I was just going out on a ride every few days. I need to "train" so I can avoid injury in the future.

From the rest of the thread it sounds like you have some medical issues, not a "training" thing.

From the rest of the thread it sounds like you have some medical issues, not a "training" thing.

Yeah, it's a medical issue now, but it was bought on by improper training/conditioning

I want to know more about it.. like, how have I ended up with it, when many people cycle every day and continue getting stronger. Are they doing something differently, or are their genetics more suited to cycling.

Yeah, it's a medical issue now, but it was bought on by improper training/conditioning

I want to know more about it.. like, how have I ended up with it, when many people cycle every day and continue getting stronger. Are they doing something differently, or are their genetics more suited to cycling.

I average around 10,000 miles a year. I would look into proper bike fit if you are having issues. Improper bike fit results in many different assorted ailments, especially knee, back, neck and joint problems. In rare cases sometimes muscle degeneration occurs, if you over do it, but that is generally due to improper nutrition and or recovery.

Yeah, it's a medical issue now, but it was bought on by improper training/conditioning

I want to know more about it.. like, how have I ended up with it, when many people cycle every day and continue getting stronger. Are they doing something differently, or are their genetics more suited to cycling.

It can't be a training issue since the only training for riding more is... riding more. Maybe you tried to ramp up too quickly but I agree withe the above poster that you probably just had a bad fit or position.

Man, this thing just keeps getting worse and worse.. new symptoms every day. The pain's spread to my spine and toes, and continues to get worse in my knees and calves. Freaking out a little bit here :/
Off to the docs again!

Man, this thing just keeps getting worse and worse.. new symptoms every day. The pain's spread to my spine and toes, and continues to get worse in my knees and calves. Freaking out a little bit here :/
Off to the docs again!

Go to the Dr and insist they check you for Multiple sclerosis. Do not leave until you know you're being booked for testing.

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Multiple_sclerosis_explained
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/about-multiple-sclerosis/symptoms/index.aspx

That might not be it, but it might at least get your Dr to sit up and pay attention and put some thought into the situation.

I don't think this has anything to do with cycling. I think this is entirely an existing medical issue which cycling may have made slightly worse. Before you see the Dr write down all your symptoms in point form, with the date that each one appeared. I wouldn't necessarily mention anything about cycling just ... Painful Knees - early October; Painful Spine and Toes - mid December ...... etc. Give that list to the Dr.

Yeah I was a bit worried about MS 'cos of the chronic pins and needles, but from now on I'm going to put them down to stress and anxiety, or a trapped nerve. I've spent too long worrying about what it could be, and missing my chance to do something in this moment.. bad habit of mine.

I saw a new doctor yesterday.. went down to ask for some crutches, but he wouldn't prescribe them. I think it'd definately help if I could take the pressure off my calves for a while.. the achilles have tightened up since the strain.. it's like a chain reaction making it's way through the body. You'd think the NHS would be better off if they spent money on preventing these injuries in the first place. Anyway, blood test results next week. several days rest 'til then.

Yeah I was a bit worried about MS 'cos of the chronic pins and needles, but from now on I'm going to put them down to stress and anxiety, or a trapped nerve. I've spent too long worrying about what it could be, and missing my chance to do something in this moment.. bad habit of mine.

Anyway, blood test results next week. several days rest 'til then.

I would still get checked for MS if I were you. You've been struggling with various odd aches and pains for months now. Get checked!! Stop worrying about what it could be, and find out for sure. Next time you see your Dr ask about MS. If you are in so much pain you want crutches (which are no picnic to use, let me tell you), your Dr needs to look further for the cause.

I don't think it is just a strain caused by cycling. And I don't think rest is going to make it any better.

I wish i could get away with that. Do you do much hill work?

Any VMO/hamstring exercises?
My favorite approach.. Just look to your heart rate monitor.. Ascending gets my pulse going far faster than racing.. Climbing and just logging in the miles is my favored approach.

So I got my blood test results earlier. Nothing wrong there. I see the doctor tomorrow to discuss them and talk about where to go from here. I don't know whether I should ask for a brain scan or not. They're kind of weird about that. Some of them will say I'm entitled to it, and others will say they should be saved for people in critical condition.

I've cost the NHS a few hundred pounds past few months. A brain scan's another.. £1000? If after all that it turns out to be caused by anxiety or a trapped nerve.. :o

I had bad headaches and got a CT scan a few years ago. Turned out to be a dental issue. It's not a big deal to go for a brain scan (assuming you mean a CT scan), especially if you've got coverage.

What's the test for MS? Have you had that yet? If not, get it done.

I had bad headaches and got a CT scan a few years ago. Turned out to be a dental issue. It's not a big deal to go for a brain scan (assuming you mean a CT scan), especially if you've got coverage.

What's the test for MS? Have you had that yet? If not, get it done.

I don't think there's a definitive test for MS, they do a bunch of things.. MRI, spinal tap, blood?, physical exam.. then make a decision based on the results, and even then it's not concrete.

I've just seen the doctor, he's going to do a more advanced blood test for something called Ankylosing Spondylitis.. a chronic inflammatory disease. Then if that comes back negative.. further tests.. probably a brain scan.

It's going to be another month for the AS test to come back though.. feel like I'm waiting in limbo all winter.

The good news.. exercise is good for AS so if I do have it, I'll still be able to cycle :)

Good luck with all the doctor stuff; I count myself pretty fortunate that I haven't needed one for many years. At age 45 and 8,000 mile/year, everything is holding up really well.

Looking at your run down upthread, it looks like you have a good basic diet. In summer I ramp up to 1,000 mile/month, and then add more protein. Snack bars are good or other supplements, and I used an accelerade 4-1 carb/protein drink mix on all my longer rides.

For supplements, I use a glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM mix, fish/flax oil, and multivitamins. I can't say that they are keeping me from problems like you are having, but I can say that I've been prone to knee and joint problems before, and have none since taking them.

Flexibility is something to work into slowly and regularly. From your postings I get the impression you tend to go full-gas into things...moderation is definitely a good thing working on flexibility. On-season I stretch every night and morning to keep things loose; off season (winter here) I worry about it less. You don't need a lot of flexibility to ride well, but you do need it to ride in an efficient position. Check that your bike fit is ok and your not causing problems by trying to be more aero than your body is ready for.

And finally, if anyone mentioned sleep above, I missed it. You could cause all the symptoms of overtraining and a body tearing itself up by doing reasonable amounts of regular hard exercise and then not sleeping enough, even if you're doing everything else right. The more you ride, the more you need sleep - that's when your most important recovery occurs. Definitely try to get 8 hours a night minimum, even if you have to take melatonin or something to help you sleep. 8 1/2 or 9 hours is even better, especially looking at your list of symptoms.

Good luck again!

Thanks Daxr, you're definately right about me going into things too fast. I think I've caused myself a lot of problems since the initial injury just by pushing too hard. I'm too impatient. It's like I want to see results within a certain time period, so I push myself to the limit and end up worse off.

I read an old thread about Overtraining vs. Overreaching (http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-101024.html). I was overreaching without allowing for full recovery from one week to the next, even during the rehab past few months, that's turned it into overtraining in my case, which can take months to recover from according to that thread. I've been cold stretching for the past month (my calves are knackered so warm up's not easy). That was making it worse so I'm going to stop everything now, until pain is significantly reduced in every area. I'm even thinking about switching rooms with my housemate as he's on the ground floor so I wouldn't have to use the stairs so often.

About sleep.. number of hours are fine but quality of sleep might not be. No exercise plus anxiety/depression makes it pretty difficult to get a deep sleep.

13 weeks injured, and today I sign on to disability allowance, as I cannot return to my job.

Does this ever get better :(

Have you been tested yet for MS?

Have you been tested yet for MS?

I've not been tested. I asked my doctor about it last week however and he said I didn't have it.. that, or any other nasty disease. They really won't give me any more information than that. I've seen several different doctors and a physio all to no avail.

..Can I ask, is it possible to cause permanent damage to muscles from overexertion? They've lost a lot of strength over the past months.. after climbing the stairs they feel like they've run a marathon.

..Can I ask, is it possible to cause permanent damage to muscles from overexertion? They've lost a lot of strength over the past months.. after climbing the stairs they feel like they've run a marathon.

Strains and sprains only take a few weeks to heal. I don't see that you would have done enough damage from overexertion to cause the amount of difficulties you're having 13 weeks later.

What, precisely, did you do 13 weeks ago which you think triggered all this? And can you give us a brief time line of what you've done since.

Strains and sprains only take a few weeks to heal. I don't see that you would have done enough damage from overexertion to cause the amount of difficulties you're having 13 weeks later.

What, precisely, did you do 13 weeks ago which you think triggered all this? And can you give us a brief time line of what you've done since.

I'll try and keep this brief.
(Physio thinks inflexibility was caused by years of sport and no stretching. Particularly tight hamstrings)

(21 yrs old - 125 lbs - 5'10")



Week 1 of injury - Pain in both knees 15 miles into 20 mile ride. Cold night.
(In the weeks leading up to this my quads were sore from doing big hilly rides without proper conditioning, footwear, pedals, etc.)

Stopped riding immediately. Pain continued.

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Week 1-5 - Stretching and strengthening exercises - I jumped into this way too soon and I think did more harm than good. I was doing leg lifts untill my quads ached so bad (Didn't know muscles were a problem then - I was trying to strengthen a weak VMO, I thought that was the cause of the knee pain)

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Week 3 or 5 - Reduced and then stopped all strength training because of muscles weakness. (Continued stretching)

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Week 6 - Started foam rolling. Increasing calf pain. Both legs.

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Week 8 - Intense pain in both calves. Widespread but worse in certain spots. I think this came on because of the foam roller.
(Doctor felt the calves and could immediately feel damage. Told it would take 12 weeks to heal)
Difficulty walking for 2 weeks. Steadily improved after that. Still sore and weak though.

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Week 9-Present - Achilles tendon pain (both sides) They'll feel ok for hours, then a sharp or dull pain, in different areas each time (usually 3-15cm up)

Increased rest. Less stretching.


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Week 11-13 - Cramps in quads and calves. As far as cramps go they're short-lived and rarely very painful. I've heard this can be caused by to much energy and inactivity - Cramps are the bodies way of using the energy. Anyone back this up?

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Week 12 - Mild left groin, and right hamstring strain. Overstretched recently.

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That's mostly it.
Pins and needles have been gone two days now. (I bought a big heater for my room two days ago) ..Probably a circulation thing!

Can you see anything I've done wrong.. or any advice on where to go from here?


Thanks for reading.

OK, the first problem I see is that you're English. I think chilblains is a distinctly English problem due to the lack of central heating. This all goes back to Dickens, workhouses, and chimney pot pollution. Not to mention steak and kidney pie, weak tea, sausages and potatoes for dinner, and rebuilding car engines on the kitchen table. Where to go? Move to a civilized country, young man. Provence. Northern Italy. Even Spain. Lie in the sun and eat goat cheese, real bread, and tomatoes. Drink sangria instead of bitter. Put on 20 pounds and get a tan. Take your bike with you. Can they send you a check?

Well, if 5 weeks ago, the Dr said you'd take 12 weeks to heal then you've got 7 weeks left. REST!! Don't keep stretching and hurting yourself. Take a week or two, and just rest ... go to work, come home, make yourself tea, then sit with your feet up in front of that heater. Then the next week start adding in light exercise like a slow walk around the block (a stroll), or a short, relaxed bicycle ride .... slow and short, at a very relaxed pace. Ride or walk to the local park, sit down on the bench and read a book for a bit, then ride or walk home. That sort of thing. You are not training for the TDF, you are stopping to smell the roses.

Go for the walk or bicycle ride one day, then take the next day off, then do it again the following day. That gives your body time to heal in between. After a couple weeks of that, gradually increase the distance you walk and/or ride.

And cramps are not the body's way of using up energy. Cramps are an indication of one or both of two things .... 1) You are dehydrated. 2) You are not consuming enough electrolytes.

Having spent some time in England, you probably drink tea most of the day. Tea isn't the best choice for hydration. Every time you drink a cup of tea, drink a cup of water right after. And get ahold of some electrolyte tablets. Or if you can't find any eat bananas, potatoes, dried apricots, and salted almonds, and take a calcium supplement.


If after all that you can still barely walk at the end of 12 weeks ... then it's not the exercise, it's something much more serious.

:lol: Carbonfiberboy, your post cracked me up. I'd love to move to the Med but I'm stuck in England until I have the money to move out! I think the new heater will solve the Chilblain problem anyway :)
About the other stuff.. I don't like Sangria, and I don't drink bitter, or tea.
Not the typical Brit.



Machka..

I'll definately start out slow like you say. I'm not dying to get out onto the tops right away. More concerned with the long term now, and my goal is to get into shape and as far from injury as I can.

Do either of you do strengthening exercises for your legs? How do you fit those around your cycling.. when's best to do them?

My physio told me to do stretching and strengthening twice a day! That really wore me out. Do you really need to push it to the point of exhaustion to gain muscle? I was thinking of working out the leg muscles once a week when they're healed.


I'm sort of at a loss with the cramps because I have a balanced diet and eat plenty of good quality food each day.. wholemeal bread, potatoes, porridge, etc, plenty of bananas.. often two a day because they go off so quickly! And I drink only water - between 4 and 8 pints a day depending on what I'm doing.

Besides the cramps.. yesterday and today have been improvements, and I'm hoping to get back on the bike in the next few weeks. That'll be really great after all this time off!

Regarding strengthening ... when I'm actively cycling, during the "season", I don't do any other strengthening activities other than cycling (and walking ... I walk quite a bit too). When I'm not cycling all that much, during the "off-season", then I will do some weightlifting.

And no, you don't need to push to the point of exhaustion to gain muscle. You should only do that under the supervision of a qualified trainer ... at least at first until you know what you're doing, and what you should NOT be doing. If you do weightlifting wrong, you can seriously injure yourself. I would also not recommend doing that sort of thing until you've developed a muscle base, kind of like the way cyclists ride base miles before getting into intervals and other speed/strength training.

Rather than thinking about working out your leg muscles at this point, just REST!! Then in a week or two gradually get into walking and cycling. In your case, I wouldn't think about weightlifting until next winter, and if you do start doing it again .... 1) Hire the services of a qualified professional trainer; 2) Start slow, with light weights and gradually build up.

How's your salt intake? Most people consume way too much of it, but some people cut it out of their diets and can end up with unbalanced electrolytes.

Right, I won't weight train until next winter then. Just focus on building up a base over the summer.
So many things to address before cycling though. Cleat position. You've had Achilles problems right? Do you put your cleats far back to take the strain off? Any disadvantages to doing this?

I've just ordered the Stick. Hopefully I can roll my calves out and take the pressure off the tendons. Feel like I'm on the verge of developing Achilles Tendinitis. I have stopped everything though, and I'm walking around in slippers to reduce the impact. (Sort of glad these injuries are happening at the same time. If it was one after another I'd be out for years!)

I don't know about my salt intake. I think I'm getting atleast 6g a day though.

You should try a massage therapist. The pain around your knees sounds like it might be from a tight IT band.

I had an orthopedic surgeon take an x-ray and MRI of my lower back pain and found that I had three herniated disks and severe arthritis in my spine. It turned out that my lower back pain came entirely from tight psoas muscles. Lucky me.

I've done self-massage, it didn't help. I'm at my wits end. 14 weeks spent in my bedroom. I've got a serious injury and the only advice they give is Ibuprofen, Ibuprofen, like it's some kind of miracle cure. Moving hurts and so does sitting still. No closer to a diagnosis. fml

You don't need a "training program" to ride a lot... just ride a lot. You only need to train if you want to ride fast.

Does that include climbing steep ascents.. ?. One might not call it training.. But, it is more than just casual riding.