General Cycling Discussion - Crappy bike lights!

:rolleyes:

I have lights, but after an hour of intermittent use, the batteries dim significantly. I need lights because I usually start my ride before 4am. It often doesn't get light enough to go without lights until about 5:30am. By then, my lights are kaput. Today, I noticed that even when I would turn them off when I wasn't using them, they still were dim by 5:15am, which sucked. I had a hard time seeing after that until the sun went up.

Does anyone have suggestions for long lasting lights that are at least 12 watts that I can easily affix to my handlebars and are preferably rechargeable? I'm going to Performance tomorrow for the members only sale, so I'll be stocking up then.

Thanks!

Koffee

4AM?? Jeez, I feel sorry for myself becuase I have to leave by 6.
There are a lot of lights out there, but I have come to the conclusion
that it's a 'get what you pay for' deal. And the cost isn't just in $$, lights weigh a lot, especially if you're carrying a spare battery.
If I had the bucks to buy today I'd get this..
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17410&subcategory_ID=4320
3 hours at 10 watts. That should do the trick. If you want more light,you could add a small Cateye for a backup light. Btw, your avatar has me confused. Is that a picture of you? I thought you said you were short, and not blonde.

I have a Niterider digital that I use on my helmet and a Cygonite Night Rover on the handlebars. I had to get the 5 hour brute charger for the Niterider because it would not completly charge in the time period from one commute to another. Now the same problem with the Cygonite. They are 14 hour slow trickle chargers. What a pain in the a$$. One thing I noticed is if I only have the handlebar mount light on, cars will wait a long time for me to enter an intersection. They don't know I am a bicyle. If I have the head mount light on, they know something is screwy, and I'm probably not a motorcycle, so they don't wait. Since my commute starts in the dark and gets darker, I did not feel comfortable with only one lighting system. I do like the having both a handlebar and a helmet mounted light. The darkness is not so claustophobic.

My bike light is a triple 3 watt Luxeon LED setup. Probably produces about 150 lumens, though I'm not sure as I don't have a light meter. It is a complete homemade job.

I would advise you to go for a LED style light. My cateye uses 4AA's and has a standard running time of 300 hours. It was only 24$. If you use a light to actually illuminate the road infront of you spend money on a good rechargable "night rider" style light. Mine is great for being visable to traffic.

If you really want a good light and don't mind spending the extra change get the Niterider:
http://www.niterider.com/BIKEPRODUCTS/FlameThrower.html

I plan to buy the helmet mount version tomorrow when Performance has their double points weekend. 20% in points plus 20% cupon makes it a little less painful.

khuon likes these.

http://www.jetlites.com/

If you're going to performance for double points weekend, take a look at their GEN3 LED, it's supposedly 10W equivalent of light coming from a single luxeon LED with good optics.
Either that or take advantage of the double points + 20% off coupon for something like a whopping 30% off and grab a HID. You'll wonder how you ever got by without it.

Lights in Motion ARC HID L-Ion or NiMH

They're expensive, but gobs of light (13.5w), spec'd for 3 - 3.5 hr run time I have gotten 4+. 4.5hr quick charge and smart charger that allows you to leave it plugged in without fear of battery damage. (Full specs below)

Helmet mount or bar mount. I prefer helmet for both road and off-road. Where ever you look, you have light... straight ahead, down at your computer, off to the side of the road where it looks like a deer is about to run out in front of you, etc... and battery goes in middle jersey/jacket pocket (incredibly light). Can't say enough nice things about this light.

Paid $399 at BeyondBikes.com for the L-Ion (MSRP $499). No Tax & Fee Shipping.
http://www.beyondbikes.com/bb/Itemdesc.asp?CartId={FDB3FCC2-A52F-4ACF-BECD-F997F124DD00**&ic=AC%2DLIG%2Darcligh&Tp=

Performance does not carry the L-Ion model. However, they do carry the NiMH model at $389 on Sale. Only difference is the battery. http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17588&subcategory_ID=4320


Full Specs.

The NEW Lithium Ion (Li-ion) battery is half the weight of a comparable NiMH battery, but delivers full size power and burn times.LIGHTS Our other battery packs all utilize high capacity, memory free NiMH cells and are among the smallest and lightest on the market and easily stow in a jersey pocket or hydration pack. Our batteries also come standard with a very clean frame mount leaving your water bottle cages for your water bottles. * Lite! rechargeable Lithium Ion battery powered light system * H.I.D. (High Intensity Discharge) technology * 3 times brighter than comparable halogen systems * 2 power settings * Helmet and handlebar mounts included * Frame mountable battery pack * Custom reflector provides clean, even beam pattern * Low battery circuitry to safeguard battery * Includes 4.5 hour universal input Turbocharger(90-240v compatible)* (Not compatible with any of the NiMH batteries.) LIGHT SPECIFICATIONS Width: 1.75" Height: 1.75"Length: 3.0" Weight: 170g including cable and mount Lamp: HID lamp life approximately 700 hours Light Output (lumens)/ Burn time(hrs.) 13.5 Watts- 675/ 3.0 hrs 11.0 Watts- 550/ 3.5 hrs BATTERY SPECIFICATIONS Length: 4.0" Height: 2.0" Width: 2.0" Weight: 270g Battery Composition: Lithium Ion Voltage/Capacity:11.1v , 4.0Ah, 300 charge cycles

I actually have that Cygo Lite 6 Volt system- I paid about $100, I believe, so if I was supposed to get what I paid for, I didn't get it! I also got a second light that was supposed to be a 5 volt at the Chicago Bike Show in March. Never used it, then I used it for about 1 minute a couple of days ago to ensure it worked, and when I saw the light go on, I put the light on my suitcase, and plugged in the battery part. Well, the suitcase is no more than 3 feet high, and I walked past it and bumped it, and the light fell on the floor, which is carpeted, by the way. I put it back on the suitcase and didn't think about it, but this morning, I went to plug it in and turn it on, and it wasn't working. *sigh* So I have about $130 worth of lights, and they're not doing the job. I'm willing to make the investment, since I know that I'll be doing the early morning rides for the rest of my life.. I just want to make sure that before I plunk down anymore money, that I have what I need!

Thanks for the comments. I'm headed over to the Performance website right now so I can get prices down and be ready for that sale.

Koffee

Follow-up note on HID. They can and do cause inteference problems with wireless computers and HRMs. That's another good reason to use them with helmet mount vs. bar-mount. My ARC HID and HAC4 did not play nice together when I experimented with a bar mount installation. Once on the helmet, no problems with wheel signal or HRM.

Koffee, what's the battery chemistry?

BTW, you said a bad word. I'm tellin'!

What is battery chemistry?

Koffee

What is battery chemistry?

Koffee

sealed lead acid, nickel-cadium, nickel-metalhydride, lithium ion, etc.
It just means the kind of chemical that's storing the charge in the battery.

Oh- in that case, I don't know. It's not written anywhre on the lights or the battery.

Koffee

Oh- in that case, I don't know. It's not written anywhre on the lights or the battery.

Koffee

Regardless of the chemistry, it's probably kaput if you've had it for a long time. I suggest you get something new. With the double points and a coupon, you can get the light & motion (which comes with a very tiny versatile battery) HID for $240 down from $389.
Either that or the new GEN3 with a charger for $60 down from $100.

I'm trying to figure out if I need the charger. I've got so many different plugs for lights, cameras, laptops, etc, that I wonder if I could just get the lights without the charger. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

Oh sweet Performance! Here I cooooooooooooommmmeeee!!!! :D :D :p

Koffee

I'm trying to figure out if I need the charger. I've got so many different plugs for lights, cameras, laptops, etc, that I wonder if I could just get the lights without the charger. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

Oh sweet Performance! Here I cooooooooooooommmmeeee!!!! :D :D :p

Koffee

If you have a charger for AA batteries, you're good to go, the regular GEN3 is only $60. :)
Myself, I'm mulling over whether I should get a HID light or not, the cheapest HID comes out to $150 after all the discounts.

Whoa! I'll have to find that charger.

BTW, I'm doing lots of research. Some of the stuff in the catalog is going for regular price, but when I look it up on the site, it's on sale. I am going through the prices for everything, and I'll be at performance first thing with my catalog, and I'll buy it cheapest wherever I see it's cheapest. I'll definitely be online getting some stuff from the site, and I'll also be getting some stuff from the catalog, and I'll be getting some stuff from the store. It'll even itself out.

The GEN3 web special is $44.96, but in the catalog, it's $59.99. What a difference!

Koffee

In terms of rechargeables, batteries typically don't last more than 2-3 years. As for the light that was in your suitcase, could it be that the lightbulb filament broke when the suitcase was bumped? It might be good to bring the parts at a bike shop and check which part is wrong, the wiring (broken wire), the bulb or the battery.

As for other suggestions:
If you have enough lighting on your roads and simply want to be seen, the Planet Bike 1 W LED superspot is a very good option. It's large enough and bright enough to be seen, sturdy, and lasts 30 hours with 4 AA batteries. The Cateye EL500 uses a similar LED but with different optics, so it might be interesting to compare them. None of these lights would be powerful enough to light your own way in the dark, but they would be great in town.

Finally, I have a generator hub. Always there, never dead. The light is only 3 W, but good optics throw the light on the road only.

If you want bright you should check out/revisit these threads:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=50863
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=42629

my light:
http://www.parts4vws.com/images/members/redventoglx/DSCF0260.JPG

I'm running a 12V 4.0ah lead-acid, and a 20 watt philips spot MR16 bulb, gets the job done well. I have rode for about 2 hours max so far, the battery was still going full strength. Though this is a bulky setup and all the gear weighs about 5 lbs.

One thing to note about HIDs is that they take a while to warm up. This is why you see some cars with HIDs also have a dual-bulb setup with a halogen light ring. BMW does this with their cars. I prefer having an HID helmet light and halogen bar setup for maximum lighting flexibility. As MERTON previously mentioned, I'm a big fan of JetLites. Their products are powerful, reliable, robust and their customer service is excellent.

Koffee have you thought about getting a hub dynamo- I have a Schmidt on my hybrid-the extra drag is hardly noticeable and you dont have to worry about charging up batteries and how long they will last. You can also get lights that stay lit when you are stopped for a few minutes like at traffic lights.

I have a Niterider digital that I use on my helmet and a Cygonite Night Rover on the handlebars. I had to get the 5 hour brute charger for the Niterider because it would not completly charge in the time period from one commute to another. Now the same problem with the Cygonite. They are 14 hour slow trickle chargers. What a pain in the a$$.
Outashape..I have just about the Same system... The Niterider Digital Evolution has 2/25 hrs. burn time at 10 watts..
My CygoLite, Nite Rover. I have two batteries..The water cage mount and the Padded battery pack..I like having two batteries...Combined burn time is a lot..SO on a long commute I carry both..that will get me home.
But the CyrgoLite..The slow trickle charge...Never know how empty the charge..It you overcharge, I think you weaken the battery..Yes, they are a pain in the A$$ for that reason..Any problems with charging/ overcharging...Since most of my night rides are under one hour, I usually use the digital evolution.

I didn't have time to read all the post, so here is my thought which may have already been covered. First of all the LED lights are not comparable in brightness to a 12 watt light; yes the batteries last a long time but the intensity of the beam is not there...yet.

If you have the money they go HID but good golly molly, $300 plus for a bike light? that seems a little obsurd to me, plus the brighter light has a tendency to bounce glare off the street into your eyes.

If your trying to save money and still have decent run times (and knowing your a tourist) I would look into the Cygo Metro. It features a twim beam light with a 6.5 watt flood (about 8 feet in diameter pattern with stray light that spreads it out 180 degrees) and a 6.5 watt spot (about 4 feet in diameter and offset 5 degrees up angle) for a total of 13 watts if you run both. The battery burn time is 5 hours on one beam and 2.5 hours on both. Now here's the odd part and why I thought it may suit you (but I could be wrong!), the batteries it uses are 6 D batteries! That means you can go into any store and buy D batteries and be lighting your way once again instead of trying to find a outlet to plug into to charge up again; and touring out in the boonies that could be a problem. I own this light and it is plenty bright for me, in fact I rarely even use the spot beam even on pitch dark bike paths. The Cygo Metro sells for about $48, batts not included. I get my D's at Walmart and buy the house brand called EverActiv they sell in a 12 pack for 8 or 9 dollars,and the 12 will easily last the season.

I use to have a Cateye EL500 LED and the thing just didn't cut it, it has a small 1 foot diameter spot beam with no scatter and an odd whiteish blueish color. The Cygo Metro with just one beam on completely washed out the Cateye. I bought the Cateye then returned it 30 days later and upgraded to the Cygo for only $12 more. I've had the light for only a year but so far no durablity issues. Also you can up grade the bulbs to brighter bulbs but your battery life will be reduced; also you can buy an optional rechargeable battery pack so then you would have a dual battery system.

khuon likes these.

http://www.jetlites.com/

Bokkie likes them as well.
;)

One thing to note about HIDs is that they take a while to warm up. This is why you see some cars with HIDs also have a dual-bulb setup with a halogen light ring. BMW does this with their cars. I prefer having an HID helmet light and halogen bar setup for maximum lighting flexibility. As MERTON previously mentioned, I'm a big fan of JetLites. Their products are powerful, reliable, robust and their customer service is excellent.

Have to admit, I found the same as well. Jim Taylor of Jetlites was very helpful in advising me when I got my lights from him into the UK.

I didn't have time to read all the post, so here is my thought which may have already been covered. First of all the LED lights are not comparable in brightness to a 12 watt light; yes the batteries last a long time but the intensity of the beam is not there...yet.

Not exactly there but I have seen some LED clusters rival 8-10 watt halogens. And I'm willing to bet the new wave of luxeon high powered LED's with some good optics can throw out just as much light with twice the battery life. (While you might get 30 some odd hours from current LED's, the new LED's, like the GEN3 from performance, only give you about 8 hours on high).

If you're willing to live with it, performance currently has a HID for $150 after all the discounts.

I may go with the performance HID after all. When I went there yesterday, they had a Gen ? from last year's model on clearance, so they suggested that one. Well, the battery for it is so big, I couldn't even get it into my bottle water cage! So I will bring it back with my bike today, since I'm back home now and I can go in with my bike.

I will never be in such a remote location that I can't recharge my batteries. It's a pain in the butt to have to buy batteries over and over. Thanks for the suggestion, but if I can't plug it in and recharge, then I'd rather not go for it.

I'll head back to performance today and see what my options are.

Koffee

A little mini light of which I find adequate for rides, where I get to work just at dusk,(but no serious darkness.) Is the Cateye 300XL, I think is the model number...Submersible to 50 ft.- It has a flashing mode with a red lense cover,if you so choose..You can put it into flash mode also..For such a little light it is pretty powerful.. At dusk,that and some flashing UFO lights on the handlebars and rear of helmet, hope can't be missed..
At dusk is the riskest time to be seen I guess. But for 15 minutes of semi darkness, don't think I need a heavier duty light, particularily with my flashing UFO lights.

Well, I went by performance today in Chicago. I returned the lights I got yesterday, since the recharger was so big and clunky, it didn't fit in my water bottle cages! I also brought my bike so they could see how I have bigger handlebars, and I would need a bit of extra help, since the mounts for bike lights are traditionally smaller than my handlebars.

I asked about the $150 lights on sale, but they didn't know of any. So we went through all the lights, and I ended up with the ViewPoint EVO dual headlight system. It has a 10 watt low beam and 20 watt high beam, and the battery pack is a square shaped NiMH, so I can attach it to my top tube. It also shuts itself off after it fully charges, so I don't have to worry about overcharging the battery! So I have a headlight now, I just need to test it out. I think it came out to something like $114, but when I returned the $80 lights I got yesterday, it wasn't as painful once they subtracted that. They used a couple of twist ties and secured the mounts to my bike, so they are good to go. I just need to try them out either Mon or Tue morning, then bring it back if it doesn't work. Hopefully, it will!

I also got those flashing lights for the handlebars. They were only like %9.95, so I figured why not? It's double points!

Thanks!

Koffee

I also have those weird handlebar taillights, but you know what? They work and their bright! I combine those with my regular Cateye LED taillight. When all the rear lights are on I have had a few motorist compliment me for lighting my bike up well so they could see me from the rear extremily well.

I also have those weird handlebar taillights, but you know what? They work and their bright! I combine those with my regular Cateye LED taillight. When all the rear lights are on I have had a few motorist compliment me for lighting my bike up well so they could see me from the rear extremily well.

What range of handlebar diameters will they fit in?

bkr

Allow me to say a few words about LED lighting. First of all, a bit of background first. I am a member of another forum dedicated to [and it's true] flashlights. These guys are on the cutting edge of illumination technologies that are currently available, but can't be found in any department stores. They [me included] have built flashlights using single 1 watt Luxeons, triple 1 watt luxeons in parallel, single 3 watt luxeon setups, single 5 watt Luxeon setups, and recently going with multiple 3 watt luxeons [such as the triple 3 watt bike light I mentioned earlier] and even multiple 5 watt setups. Only when you get into these multiple setups will you actually begin to see some adequate lighting, especially if you're riding at night. And then, only if you're using at least 3 watt luxeons. I had a triple 1 watt setup and it just wasn't good enough. And if you happen to find optics that give you good throw, you will suffer not being able to see well what may be right in front of your bike. The best bike light would be a multiple 3 or 5 watt luxeons [best to use 3 watt luxeons since 5 watt white luxeons are only rated for 1000 hours, and they're expensive at around $30 each], using some sort of reflector for throw and adequate side spill. That would not be a very small unit either.

Secondly, you won't find an LED lighting systems that will out do an HID system. Not unless you have multiple LEDs and not just 1 watt Luxeons either. That's the consensus of the experts on that sight. Even the newest lights out there can't stand up against an HID system, . . . .at this point. Heating of the LED and trying to find a good heat sink is the problem that will cause this new technology to remain out of the question in the near future.

Saying all that, my triple 3 watt Luxeon bike light seems to work pretty well, but then we only did not more than 10 miles per hour when we rode. It shined well on the trail and had that HID look because of the color temperature of the LEDs I put in it. It uses a Fraen triple optic that is roughly the diameter of a Maglight head, with the optics set up in a triad. It runs direct off of a 4AA battery pack and does have a pretty good longevity of light. But even when the batteries loose their 'oomf', the light will remain the same color and not gradually get more and more yellow as the batteries poop out. Anyway, that setup, I think, would be the best LED setup at this point.

*steps down off of soap box*

I'll plug my recent purchase(s)

http://www.bicyclelights.com

I've been very happy with them, both the handlebar and helmet system, which I got for <$100, including shipping. I got the NiCd system, but I can upgrade to NiMH just by buying the battery (~$50).

Run time has been as published. Build construction is great.

He often sells through EBay at a discount

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=laseredg&completed=0&sort=3&since=-1

Only when you get into these multiple setups will you actually begin to see some adequate lighting, especially if you're riding at night. And then, only if you're using at least 3 watt luxeons.

It all depends on what you need. I use a Black Diamond "Moonlight" hiking headlamp for night riding. It has 4 white LEDs, and I'd guess that it's much less powerful than a 1-watt luxeon. It isn't a spotlight, but it is adequate to illuminate signs and reflectors and keep me from hitting debris etc on the road. Since I've been encountering more glass on my route lately, I ordered a 1-watt(?) Cateye EL500 to help with that problem. It will also serve as a hiking flashlight, so battery life, weight and size are important. I should have plenty of light.

bkr

It all depends on what you need. I use a Black Diamond "Moonlight" hiking headlamp for night riding. It has 4 white LEDs, and I'd guess that it's much less powerful than a 1-watt luxeon. It isn't a spotlight, but it is adequate to illuminate signs and reflectors and keep me from hitting debris etc on the road. Since I've been encountering more glass on my route lately, I ordered a 1-watt(?) Cateye EL500 to help with that problem. It will also serve as a hiking flashlight, so battery life, weight and size are important. I should have plenty of light.

bkr

Let us know how that 1watt luxeon works. :)

i've never had problems with my 6V Cygolite NiCad battery system. the battery fits snugly in my cage and the combined 16.3 watts pumpus some serious wattage into my cottage. i like the dual 10W wide and 6.3W narrow beams. and the low battery indicator helps me with recharging......

significant upgrade over the 4AA battery systems. i dislike the planetbike and the like. when my friend and i are riding side by side we look like a car's headlights.

Lights in Motion ARC HID L-Ion or NiMH

They're expensive, but gobs of light (13.5w), spec'd for 3 - 3.5 hr run time I have gotten 4+. 4.5hr quick charge and smart charger that allows you to leave it plugged in without fear of battery damage. (Full specs below)

I agree. HID. Tons of information, some from me, on other threads. If you've got to see the road, there's nothing better. And, as far as weight, pleasing color (to me), convenient charging, and other features, nothing's as good.

If you're just riding in town, and you just need to be seen, one of those little LED lights isn't a bad idea. I just got a cateye LED. I'm impressed with it. A good in-town light. But don't rely on it to show you the road.

Secondly, you won't find an LED lighting systems that will out do an HID system. Not unless you have multiple LEDs and not just 1 watt Luxeons either. That's the consensus of the experts on that sight. Even the newest lights out there can't stand up against an HID system, . . . .at this point. Heating of the LED and trying to find a good heat sink is the problem that will cause this new technology to remain out of the question in the near future.

Saying all that, my triple 3 watt Luxeon bike light seems to work pretty well, but then we only did not more than 10 miles per hour when we rode. It shined well on the trail and had that HID look because of the color temperature of the LEDs I put in it. It uses a Fraen triple optic that is roughly the diameter of a Maglight head, with the optics set up in a triad. It runs direct off of a 4AA battery pack and does have a pretty good longevity of light. But even when the batteries loose their 'oomf', the light will remain the same color and not gradually get more and more yellow as the batteries poop out. Anyway, that setup, I think, would be the best LED setup at this point.

*steps down off of soap box*

Interesting information. As I just mentioned, I just got a little cateye LED light. A lot of performance in a little 3AAA battery package. LED are obviously improving.

I've got a halogen for a camping/emergency biking head-mounted light, but I might look at the newer Princeton LED lights for an upgrade, now that I've seen what's doing these days.

If you're just riding in town, and you just need to be seen, one of those little LED lights isn't a bad idea. I just got a cateye LED. I'm impressed with it. A good in-town light. But don't rely on it to show you the road.

Everybody's lighting needs will be different. I ride with only the LED headlamp on unlit streets. I just ride a little slower when necessary. I wonder if those fancy new Luxeon-type LEDs are as easy to tinker with as normal LEDs - I'd like to try building my own.

bkr

I use a niterider trailrat 2.0 The battery may not last long enough for your use though, but I bet if you can get a water bottle type battery it will.

I'm about to look for a bottle batt for mine, I'm going to have a rack on my roadie once I get it out of the shop, so my extra water is going to be strapped to it...every gallon of it :p

I've been reading about this for fun. The companies never use consistent units to state the brightness of their lights, so I've been wondering just how to compare different LED lights. (They probably like numbers that sound impressive but mean little to the end consumer)

Eventually I found a page that suggests that bright white LEDs are about 2 lumens each, and that 1-watt Luxeons are about 25 lumens, 3-watt luxeons are about 50-80 lumens, and that 4-5 watt luxeons are about 80-120 lumens. That's a total light output unit (think "light power"), but the spectral output of white LED's and Luxeons would need to be pretty similar to compare them directly. I'll neglect that for the moment. Not all photons are created equal.

Luxeons are not only brighter, but should be focussed into a tighter beam than white LED arrays. That puts more of your light into each unit solid-angle of the beam, or each unit area on the target. Converting lumens to candlepower (= candela) requires knowing the illumination pattern. (1 lumen = 1 candela per steradian, so for a uniform spherical distribution, 1 candlepower = 12.57 lumens.) Multiply your candlepower by the effective solid angle illuminated in steradians, and you get your lumens.

Cateye claims that the EL500 is about 1200 candlepower, and the EL300 is about 400 candlepower. Assuming that the EL500 is 25 lumens and the EL300 is 10 lumens (5x2) doesn't quite give relative beam sizes and illuminations I'm expecting, so I'm still puzzling that out.

(edit: OK, later at www.lumileds.com I found the datasheet for their collimator optics, and it quotes a 10-degree beam which matches my calculation for effective angular beamsize = 25 lumens / 1200 candlepower. I guess the EL500 probably does have a 10-degree wide beam)

Anyway, if the EL500 is 25 lumens I can guess-timate how much brighter it is than my headlamp. My headlamp has 4 white LED's = 8 lumens. It has a very broad beam - I'll guess 20 degrees wide. I'd guess a 5-degree wide beam for the Cateye, but their candlepower number suggests more like 10 degrees wide. Let's say my headlamp spreads its light over 5-10 times more area. 25/8 more light concentrated into 5-10 times less area is 15-30 times more light per unit area at the target. So, my new light should be at least 15 times brighter at the target, though it probably only produces about 3-5 times more light.

bkr

The little taillight LED plug for handlebar ends fit in standard road bike bars. They use two button batteries with a run time of 20 hours, but they are surprisingly bright.

The little taillight LED plug for handlebar ends fit in standard road bike bars.

They also have special versions available for straight bars.

They also have special versions available for straight bars.

The diameters aren't the same? I'd like to get a couple for my bikes with straight bars, to use as side-markers.

bkr

The little taillight LED plug for handlebar ends fit in standard road bike bars. They use two button batteries with a run time of 20 hours, but they are surprisingly bright.

Hmmm..."they use button batteries" is NOT good. Those are usually expensive, and not rechargeable. What size?

I think I could mod them to use AAA's somehow, though.

bkr

just get some generic brand button cells, I'm sure you can get a 20 pack for dirt if you find a generic brand. I got a ton of "UltraLast" batteries, about 40 of them for $8 a while ago....and they work well, about on par with duracell, for a heck of a lot less. Given the 40-pack were AAs, but I bet you can find buttons like that too.

just get some generic brand button cells, I'm sure you can get a 20 pack for dirt if you find a generic brand. I got a ton of "UltraLast" batteries, about 40 of them for $8 a while ago....and they work well, about on par with duracell, for a heck of a lot less. Given the 40-pack were AAs, but I bet you can find buttons like that too.

Depends on what size it uses. Hearing aid batteries might be much cheaper, but the LR77/AG13/S76 batteries that go in my calculator are usually like $3 each. I also have a thing about using rechargeables. ;)

bkr

true, I use NiMH whenever I can afford to. On my backup lights for my bike..I won't though. Problem being rechargables rarely put out the same voltage, and often have a lower capacity than a regular alkaline. Anything crucial like flashlights and such get te alkalines, but for CD players, remotes, my wireless mouse, cameras....they get the NiMHs.