Advocacy & Safety - Will a tough sentence for Road Rage Doctor result in an increase in Hit and Runs?

If this doctor gets the tough sentence that he deserves, cyclists would hope that it would cause drivers to be more careful and make aggressive drivers think twice about injuring cyclists.

On the other hand, would it have the unintended side effect of causing drivers "run away" if they hit a cyclists - for fear that they would spend more time in jail if they stick around and claim responsibility? There's already an epidemic of hit'n'run mentality. I would think a tough sentence for the Mandeville Canyon doctor would actually increase the number of hit and runs.

Hit and run already has a high price when and if the offender is caught.

I doubt the public is going to "settle the score" with cyclists due to this. I suspect that it may cool some tempers.

genec, that's an interesting take on my question. I didn't think of it that way, ie, that there may be a "backlash" against cyclists so to speak. I do hope that it does cool some tempers..

Let me restate the question: Would a tough sentencing for "Dr" Thompson increase drivers' fear of punishment such that they would be more than apt than normal, to run if they hit a cyclist?

Personally, that's what I fear might happen.

I doubt it. But for anyone who is familiar with this case it might cause them to be more circumspect about statements they make to police and other witnesses (incl. recorded 911 calls).

I do think it likely that harsher DUI laws have increased the motivation for hit&run. A suspect who turns himself in when sober a day after the incident may well fare better than one who remains at the scene and is determined to be under the influence.

If this doctor gets the tough sentence that he deserves, cyclists would hope that it would cause drivers to be more careful and make aggressive drivers think twice about injuring cyclists.

On the other hand, would it have the unintended side effect of causing drivers "run away" if they hit a cyclists - for fear that they would spend more time in jail if they stick around and claim responsibility? There's already an epidemic of hit'n'run mentality. I would think a tough sentence for the Mandeville Canyon doctor would actually increase the number of hit and runs.

Since knowledge of the case, is limited to the cycling community and, those associated with the doctor:mad:, I don't think much will happen in either direction:notamused:. Because, The case wasn't worth the ratings, to CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox n' CNN:(

This already happens a lot, because a lot of road accidents of all types involve alcohol. Because everyone knows there are significant penalties for DUI, people tend to hit and run there. There are VERY serious penalties for hit and run; for one thing, I think it's an automatic felony.

I don't think this necessarily equates to more hit and runs though; the vast majority of car/bike accidents are accidental. I think pretty much everyone realizes that this f***head intentionally caused this incident, that it was not an accident. If someone is involved with an actual accident, without malice, it's idiotic to run from it; it turns a traffic ticket (if that) into a felony.

This already happens a lot, because a lot of road accidents of all types involve alcohol. Because everyone knows there are significant penalties for DUI, people tend to hit and run there. There are VERY serious penalties for hit and run; for one thing, I think it's an automatic felony.

I don't think this necessarily equates to more hit and runs though; the vast majority of car/bike accidents are not accidental. I think pretty much everyone realizes that this f***head intentionally caused this incident, that it was not an accident. If someone is involved with an actual accident, without malice, it's idiotic to run from it; it turns a traffic ticket (if that) into a felony.

You meant to write "the vast majority of car/bike accidents ARE accidental", am I correct?

Hit and run only turns into a felony if the driver gets caught. If not caught, there are no charges. That's why they run, they are gambling that they won't get caught.

good discussion everyone should beware of rash drivers and they made us prisoned for accident.thanks for valuable suggestion and sharing..

There are very rarely 'accidents'. Sudden mechanical failure, grossly deficient roadway/design, or Mother Nature are the only things I consider as a pilot 'accident'.

There are primarily 'collisions' due to pilot inattentiveness or incompetency.

IMO, 'distracted' drivers should be cited the same as DUI drivers. When one consciously chooses to make driving a SECONDARY focus, it is the same thing as impairing one's self via drinking.

I got rear-ended the other day by an ADHD driver. Thankfully, I was in a protective cage at the time. Otherwise I'd be dead. I'm sick of it. There is no excuse.

You meant to write "the vast majority of car/bike accidents ARE accidental", am I correct?

Hit and run only turns into a felony if the driver gets caught. If not caught, there are no charges. That's why they run, they are gambling that they won't get caught.

Yes, sorry. Fixed.

As Slee points out below, there are accidents and accidents. When I say accidents here, I mean non-intentional incidents. True accidents are really only due to completely unforseeable situations. I wouldn't even count most mechanical failure as an accident, because mostly that results from negligent maintenance.

If you hit a cyclist and did not mean to, it's silly to run, given the almost nonexistent penalties normally meted out for these offenses. Sure, running is a gamble, but the stakes are too high here. Stay and get MAYBE a ticket for $100 or so, or run and possibly get a felony conviction, jail time, loss of license, and the lifetime of trouble and stigma that a felony conviction carries.

If you hit a cyclist and did not mean to, it's silly to run, given the almost nonexistent penalties normally meted out for these offenses. Sure, running is a gamble, but the stakes are too high here. Stay and get MAYBE a ticket for $100 or so, or run and possibly get a felony conviction, jail time, loss of license, and the lifetime of trouble and stigma that a felony conviction carries.

Correct, but rational thought often goes out the window during the moments following an incident.

According to FARS "only" 16.9% of 2008 cycling fatalities involved a hit and run, down from 17.8% in 2007.

FWIW Hit and run accounts for 5.5% of all traffic fatalities.

There are VERY serious penalties for hit and run; for one thing, I think it's an automatic felony.Not in Texas.

"550.021. ACCIDENT INVOLVING PERSONAL INJURY OR DEATH" makes it a felony of the third degree if the accident causes death or serious injury. If there's injury but it's not serious, the same section makes it misdemeanor but isn't clear about the level (only the penalty.)

If there is only damage to a vehicle, "550.022. ACCIDENT INVOLVING DAMAGE TO VEHICLE" makes it a Class C or B misdemeanor depending on the damage. (Class C is the lowest level of offense and includes things like speeding and minor shoplifting.)

My point is that at least here, it's not an automatic felony. Certain conditions have to be met for it to be a felony. At least in Texas, anyways.

And yes, if you hurt somebody or damage a parked car or something, it's often in your best interest to run away rather than stop and render aid (especially if you're drunk.) You can't even call 911 and get help, because it gives the police a lead. Which sucks, but it's the way things are.

Since knowledge of the case, is limited to the cycling community and, those associated with the doctor:mad:, I don't think much will happen in either direction:notamused:. Because, The case wasn't worth the ratings, to CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox n' CNN:(

It has made it to NPR and to local stations.

If this doctor gets the tough sentence that he deserves, cyclists would hope that it would cause drivers to be more careful and make aggressive drivers think twice about injuring cyclists.

I think for most drivers it would be a wake-up call. As for most aggressive drivers I don't really see it changing their opinions or way of driving. As I think most aggressive drivers drive that way as they think that they "own" the road and that everyone needs to get out of their way.


On the other hand, would it have the unintended side effect of causing drivers "run away" if they hit a cyclists - for fear that they would spend more time in jail if they stick around and claim responsibility? There's already an epidemic of hit'n'run mentality. I would think a tough sentence for the Mandeville Canyon doctor would actually increase the number of hit and runs.

I think that to a lesser degree there might be a slight increase in hit-n-runs between cars/cyclists, but I think that in the long run that it would "even out" and motorists will eventually learn that cyclists have as much right to be on the road as anyone else.

genec, that's an interesting take on my question. I didn't think of it that way, ie, that there may be a "backlash" against cyclists so to speak. I do hope that it does cool some tempers..

Let me restate the question: Would a tough sentencing for "Dr" Thompson increase drivers' fear of punishment such that they would be more than apt than normal, to run if they hit a cyclist?

Personally, that's what I fear might happen.

As I said in the short term there might be a rise in hit-n-runs, but overall I don't think so. As law enforcement and the judicial system cracked down on car v car hit-n-runs has the number of hit-n-runs involving car v car gone up?

Hit and run already has a high price when and if the offender is caught.

I doubt the public is going to "settle the score" with cyclists due to this. I suspect that it may cool some tempers.

Not sure what the laws for hit and run in California are and how effectively they are adjudicated. But as mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago here. A hit and run driver killed a cyclist, and when caught it was determined that this same driver: 1 was driving on a revoked license, 2: had 2 previous DUI convictions, 3: and is awaiting trial on 2 other driving while revoked arrests. So the severity of this arrest has had her arraigned before a judge and released on an unsecured bond. This means she just signed her name and walked out of the court room. I will pretty much say that when this does get to trial. She will probably do 60 to 90 days and have her license permanently revoked as a sentence for the Hit and run involving death.

I think for most drivers it would be a wake-up call. As for most aggressive drivers I don't really see it changing their opinions or way of driving. As I think most aggressive drivers drive that way as they think that they "own" the road and that everyone needs to get out of their way.



I think that to a lesser degree there might be a slight increase in hit-n-runs between cars/cyclists, but I think that in the long run that it would "even out" and motorists will eventually learn that cyclists have as much right to be on the road as anyone else.

It would be nice if this all were the outcome, but so little of the story has hit the general public... so in the end, I doubt there will be any real changes RE motorists learning cyclists' rights.

Now if this were "talked up" the result might help cyclists, but as someone said, this hasn't even be part of the regular news stories... Tiger Woods has had far more "airtime."

It would be nice if this all were the outcome, but so little of the story has hit the general public... so in the end, I doubt there will be any real changes RE motorists learning cyclists' rights.

Now if this were "talked up" the result might help cyclists, but as someone said, this hasn't even be part of the regular news stories... Tiger Woods has had far more "airtime."

Sadly, this is true. Other then here and other bicycle related forums I haven't seen it covered in the news. Of course I don't have either cable or satellite TV just over the air broadcast so I don't know (but can presume that it's none) what coverage it has received on the 24-hr news channels. But I have brought this to the attention of friends of mine who primary mode of transportation is driving a motor vehicle.

Which hopefully others here have done. So as to advocate for improved bicycle safety.

As correct me if I'm mistaken isn't the best way to effect change? Start with the individual not the whole group. As again correct me if I'm mistaken but if the individual starts behaving in a legal, responsible manner others will see it and hopefully emulate said behavior.

Sadly, this is true. Other then here and other bicycle related forums I haven't seen it covered in the news. Of course I don't have either cable or satellite TV just over the air broadcast so I don't know (but can presume that it's none) what coverage it has received on the 24-hr news channels. But I have brought this to the attention of friends of mine who primary mode of transportation is driving a motor vehicle.

Which hopefully others here have done. So as to advocate for improved bicycle safety.

As correct me if I'm mistaken isn't the best way to effect change? Start with the individual not the whole group. As again correct me if I'm mistaken but if the individual starts behaving in a legal, responsible manner others will see it and hopefully emulate said behavior.

You'd like to think so... that is "if the individual starts behaving in a legal, responsible manner others will see it and hopefully emulate said behavior," but frankly I have seen that individuals acting in proper manner, and not the way as the group think, tend to ostracized. In fact, I actually experienced an extreme of this a long while back when taking a LAB Road 2 class... we were practicing and executing proper and legal left turns when we were confronted by horn honking motorist that chided us to ride "the other way." When I confronted the motorist about specifics, he pointed to a curb hugging cyclist and said "like that." I then asked how we were supposed to make left turns... "that's your problem."

I also quite often get honked at and yelled at for taking a lane on a multi-laned road, where other bicycle riders often cower on the sidewalks.

Being the "lone ranger" ain't fun. I also suspect that others observing my woes consider me the fool.

This even happened with my own family, when we were riding along in a residential area, and came up to a 4 way stop where a car was already waiting on a cross street. I stopped, my wife and son ran the sign. The motorist looked at me like I was from Mars... and my son suggested that I was an idiot. (we had words, later) My actions were the proper and legal actions, but in the examples I just gave, were frowned upon by the "less enlightened" masses. Go figure.

You'd like to think so... that is "if the individual starts behaving in a legal, responsible manner others will see it and hopefully emulate said behavior," but frankly I have seen that individuals acting in proper manner, and not the way as the group think, tend to ostracized.

I realize that at first like evolution it will be slow going, no matter how much we'd like to see it happen. And that it isn't going to happen overnight. All we can do is try to set best example possible and hope that others learn from us.


In fact, I actually experienced an extreme of this a long while back when taking a LAB Road 2 class... we were practicing and executing proper and legal left turns when we were confronted by horn honking motorist that chided us to ride "the other way." When I confronted the motorist about specifics, he pointed to a curb hugging cyclist and said "like that." I then asked how we were supposed to make left turns... "that's your problem."

At first I thought ya were going to say that he wanted you to ride against traffic. Motorists can be rather moronic at times. Don't forget that like cars we need to have space to be able to swerve around obstacles that may be in our path, or cars or animals coming at us from the right.


I also quite often get honked at and yelled at for taking a lane on a multi-laned road, where other bicycle riders often cower on the sidewalks.

Once or twice I've actually have had pedestrians yell at me to get on the sidewalk. How ironic is that?


Being the "lone ranger" ain't fun. I also suspect that others observing my woes consider me the fool.

No it isn't but we have to start somewhere.


This even happened with my own family, when we were riding along in a residential area, and came up to a 4 way stop where a car was already waiting on a cross street. I stopped, my wife and son ran the sign. The motorist looked at me like I was from Mars... and my son suggested that I was an idiot. (we had words, later) My actions were the proper and legal actions, but in the examples I just gave, were frowned upon by the "less enlightened" masses. Go figure.

Yep, like I said all we can do is to do our best to set the better example.

My concern is much less about hit and run than how car v bike stories encourage the perception of cycling as a dangerous activity.

...would it have the unintended side effect of causing drivers "run away" if they hit a cyclists - for fear that they would spend more time in jail if they stick around and claim responsibility?

Are you taking a highly intensive nationwide survey to determine the proper answer to this question? No?

End of meaningful discussion.

-Kurt

Are you taking a highly intensive nationwide survey to determine the proper answer to this question? No?

End of meaningful discussion.

-Kurt

Wow Kurt, are you the moderator here? I posted a simple question to hear the opinions of those who wish to respond. I think it's been a meaningful discussion so far and I've enjoyed reading people's responses. I think it's rude of you to declare "End of meaningful discussion" just because I'm not conducting a scientific nationwide poll. And by the way, there are no "proper answers", just responses.

To the rest of you: If you wish to continue, please do.