Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - What electronics are you using?

I want to train more efficiently and also have the advantages of modern mobile electronics while completing Long Distance rides. At the minimum I would like to use a heart rate monitor to use along with cadence data. But I would also like to consider GPS enabled devices.

What devices do you use?

I use a bike computer (speed), a HRM and MS Excel. Excel is used to track intensity, mileage etc, as well as resting HR values to make sure I'm not overtraining. I see no need for GPS, but it does look like a fun gadget. Cadence would be nice, but I do my cadence work on rollers and can just count strokes in 6 seconds and then multiply by 10. It's not terribly accurate, but it does let me know if I'm getting too slow. I work best with a cadence between 85 and 95. Slower than that and I drop off effort (or its a steep hill), faster than that and I find I'm putting too much effort into the spin.

If I had more money to burn, I'd put it into a power meter before GPS. My $.02

Yes, I agree the power meter is the best tool. I've been told they provide a big benefit to cyclist who are already very fit. I'm still developing my fitness in terms of power and am more interested in endurance.

The GPS might help to keep me on course during an event. Can a GPS device accept course instructions?

Navi systems will accept destination instructions. Some of the simplest ones, like the one on the iPhone using Google Maps, will not allow you to correct a route or to specify that some intermediate stops must be accounted for, such as controles. You can certainly specify the departe and the arrivee, but I don't know if it can hit all the controles in one programming step. You could program a route from Control 1 to 2, then 2 to 3, et cetera, but then you'd be spending off-bike time to do that. I can't really say what the handhelds let you do.

One problem in rough terrain, forests, and "urban canyons" is losing sight of teh GPS satellites. If the number you are receiving from reaches 3, you are at teh fundamental limit of the system. The equations for lat/long position cannot be solved with less than three, at least for the basic GPS system. Getting elevation requires detecting more then three satellites.

If you have a car with navi and can borrow one or several handhelds, drive around and compare teh handheld with a car navi, and see how well they agree.

On the Randon Google group there is a mention of someone riding a German 1200k getting the route guidance wrong, and covering 1400+. That seems a really nasty problem. I'm not sure if having a GPS navigator or perhaps a better one would have helped.

I have a bike computer (Vetta V100A) with cadence and altimeter, and a very basic HRM that I use irregularly. What I'd like to have is a computer with everything my Vetta has, plus HRM and power. The only things I track with any regularity are mileage, speed and cadence. Everything else is more for curiosity. But then my training would not qualify as structured, except for my mileage progression leading up to the first brevet of the season. I spent 15 years racing, and got more than my fill of structured training. Now I ride because I like to ride. Period.

SP
Bend, OR
:recum:

If you plan on using a GPS for 600k+ events, your second consideration after programmability is going to be battery life. I don't think any of the bike mounted units have a 40hr battery life. Even if you're turning the unit off at your overnights, that's only saving a few hours.

I use a Garmin 305 GPS unit, even on long rides. There are battery powered USB device charges for keeping it running for the longer brevets.

Right now, I'm considering the SpeedZone Digital Comp HR Computer. http://www.specialized.com/be/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=47877

This does not have any GPS routing displays, but has the HR & cadence features. It also has download capability.

Has anyone tried this or know of any alternatives?

I use a Garmin 305 GPS unit, even on long rides. There are battery powered USB device charges for keeping it running for the longer brevets.

Yes, but you can't upload a route on the 305. Only the 605 and 705 can take a route. I did a lot of searching and found way more users of the handheld Garmin units than the bike specific ones. I ended up getting a etrex Vista HCX after hearing lots of good reviews on them. They have a longer battery life than any of the Garmin bike units, and the batteries are AA so easily carried and replaced if needed on a long event.

But, a GPS is never a replacement for a cue sheet. It is just sometimes more helpful in finding your way.

Right now, I'm considering the SpeedZone Digital Comp HR Computer. http://www.specialized.com/be/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=47877

This does not have any GPS routing displays, but has the HR & cadence features. It also has download capability.

Has anyone tried this or know of any alternatives?

You might also look at the new Trek/Bontrager Node computers.

The Garmin ANT+ speed/cadence sensor/transmitter would work with the Specialized and Trek computers and combines the two functions into one thing that attaches to your bike.

Yes, but you can't upload a route on the 305. Only the 605 and 705 can take a route. I did a lot of searching and found way more users of the handheld Garmin units than the bike specific ones. I ended up getting a etrex Vista HCX after hearing lots of good reviews on them. They have a longer battery life than any of the Garmin bike units, and the batteries are AA so easily carried and replaced if needed on a long event.

But, a GPS is never a replacement for a cue sheet. It is just sometimes more helpful in finding your way.

Sure you can. It just does not have a road map. It shows the direction you'll be turning, when the turn comes, and alerts you if you get off course. That's all I need for now. You're right about GPS not replacing the que sheets, but it's nice to confirm your position and alert you if you start to miss a turn.

With regards to power-meters, I don't find mine very useful for LD riding. The avg always comes in somewhere around 150w, or less, after 10-20+ hours.

HR is more useful I think for LD riding, just to keep the pace down.

I'm now considering two devices, one for heart rate & cadence, another of location and other GPS function.

I like the Garmin FR60 for heart rate & cadence, I like the download capability. I also like the cross training capability.

The negative reviews on the Garmin cycling units are a concern.

Michael

I'm now considering two devices, one for heart rate & cadence, another of location and other GPS function.

I like the Garmin FR60 for heart rate & cadence, I like the download capability. I also like the cross training capability.

The negative reviews on the Garmin cycling units are a concern.

Michael

I'll put in another vote for the Garmin "handheld mapping" units, like the eTrex Vista HCx. The [67]05 just seem like way more money than I can see the point of spending. I'd rather have a bike computer that does cadence, and keep my GPS separate. That way if one fails, the other is probably still working, barring an EMT strike. Redundancy is good in randonneuring.

Training wise, you'll get the greatest bang for the buck with a heart rate monitor. As far as all the GPS stuff goes, I don't see the point in them unless you are into gadgets. Maybe I'm just old fashioned (on my modern Italian made rando bike ;) ) For years before there were GPS units we were riding with those hi-tech paper route sheets with no problems what-so-ever. Sure, once in a while we'd make a wrong turn but that is part of the adventure! One of the reasons I do randonee's is to not have to deal with the technology. I do randonees to ride my bike. ;)

ps, I don't mean to bag on people who rely on gps. Everyone is out there for some reason, if that gets them where they want to go there is nothing wrong with that.

None at all this year. A full brevet series and two 1200Ks -- and 8000+ total miles of riding -- without so much as a cyclocomputer. Made navigation a bit more fun and interesting, though I think I had only one error -- on the idiot-proof Last Chance 1200, of all places.

If you plan on using a GPS for 600k+ events, your second consideration after programmability is going to be battery life. I don't think any of the bike mounted units have a 40hr battery life. Even if you're turning the unit off at your overnights, that's only saving a few hours.

What I've done with GPS (the Garmin 60CSx was my tool of choice) on 600Ks and 1200Ks in the past is to just run it at night and leave it off during the day. Navigating by cue sheet during the day is easy enough, but having the GPS light up and tell you your next turn at night is really quite nice. You don't get a full track of your ride, but you can get through an entire 1200K using it that way.

Another good use for a GPS is to simply find your way around on Forest Service roads, secondary county roads, etc in lieu of carrying topo maps which tear and get wet--Trails Illustrated makes rip proof/waterproof ones for a limited number areas. But I actually don't have one.

I'm also considering getting a GPS - probably just a toy to play with whilst the km's tick by, oh yes, and for those occasions were it's the middle of the night, raining, in the middle of no where, you're by yourself and the route sheet is not correct.

A couple of people here have recommended the eTrex Vista HCx, a mate of mine has had one (3) of these and it has failed three times - each time the battery contact broke after continuous movement on the bike and power was lost. Has anyone else had this experience?

Have a speedometer/odometer. Mainly because my neighbor keeps asking how far I rode and without that I wouldn't have any idea.

Another good use for a GPS is to simply find your way around on Forest Service roads, secondary county roads, etc in lieu of carrying topo maps which tear and get wet--Trails Illustrated makes rip proof/waterproof ones for a limited number areas. But I actually don't have one.

I would add a word of caution about doing that. A woman and her child died in Panamint Valley last summer because they were going where their GPS told them to go. Their car got stuck and they died of dehydration. That probably won't happen to you on your bike but it is something to be aware of. A lot of the maps that GPS systems are based on are from the 1930's and 40's and sometimes earilier. Some of those roads haven't been maintained in years or no longer exist. I don't mean to discourage anyone who is prepared from doing some exploring because it is a blast to do. Just be a little careful. :)

I would add a word of caution about doing that. A woman and her child died in Panamint Valley last summer because they were going where their GPS told them to go. Their car got stuck and they died of dehydration. That probably won't happen to you on your bike but it is something to be aware of. A lot of the maps that GPS systems are based on are from the 1930's and 40's and sometimes earilier. Some of those roads haven't been maintained in years or no longer exist. I don't mean to discourage anyone who is prepared from doing some exploring because it is a blast to do. Just be a little careful. :)

Absolutely right. Heading out on FS roads etc with just a topo is a bad idea if you don't know how to read one, stay abreast of recent changes etc. But assuming you do know what you're doing I'm guessing it's quite possibly better than carrying all the 7 and 24 minute topos with you. Someday I'll try one.

Absolutely right. Heading out on FS roads etc with just a topo is a bad idea if you don't know how to read one, stay abreast of recent changes etc. But assuming you do know what you're doing I'm guessing it's quite possibly better than carrying all the 7 and 24 minute topos with you. Someday I'll try one.

i'm really glad you said "if you don't know how to read one" because a map, and sometimes a compass (not really necessary) has gotten me out of plenty of jams just fine. A GPS, although I have one and like them for some things, aren't all that great. a map is much more reliable.

I have a Garmin Forerunner 305 with heart rate monitor and it is a very handy tool as far as training for running or cycling. It does not have the mapping function, though. Here is a 200k permanent I rode in October. Check out the player option.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/17283908

If I ride it again I could compare it side by side to see how I improve(or not). I do not think it is handy on long distance rides(rechargeable 10 hour battery), but if you have a short training ride that you do regularly it is a very good tool.

I have a Garmin 705 with HRM and Cadence. That's what I have. What I use is the 705. I took the Cadence / Wheel sensor off at one point and never re-installed it. I went for a short ride with the HRM just for fun once but never used it again.

For brevets, I setup the route with bikeroutetoaster.com and upload to the 705. I find it invaluable for navigation. I use a gomadic 4xAA holder in my top tube bag to power it for brevets longer than 200k, swapping batteries every 24 hours. Using the AA holder with the power on all the time allows me to leave the backlight on full time.

I have a Garmin 705 with HRM and Cadence. That's what I have. What I use is the 705...

... I use a gomadic 4xAA holder in my top tube bag to power it for brevets longer than 200k, swapping batteries every 24 hours. Using the AA holder with the power on all the time allows me to leave the backlight on full time.

Santa is bringing me one of these for Christmas... I HAVE been good. :D I'm looking to use it on longer brevets, particularly for unknown territory and for some touring, hopefully Switzerland in June 2010. The Gomadic battery charger looks like a great accessory for the longer rides. Thanks for the tip.

I have a Garmin 705 with HRM and Cadence. That's what I have. What I use is the 705. I took the Cadence / Wheel sensor off at one point and never re-installed it. I went for a short ride with the HRM just for fun once but never used it again.

I did have an Edge 305, until one of my cats helpfully knocked off the kitchen table, but I'd never got as far as using in on a brevet. I'm thinking of replacing it with an Edge 705 ... At least partially to get genuine navigation, as I think my ability to read German might be somewhat impaired towards the end of a 600! (On the plus side, I can get one with a cadence sensor and will then have cadence on both my bikes.)

What would everyone suggest for my first computer? I'm into the sport one year.

What would everyone suggest for my first computer? I'm into the sport one year.

Assuming you just want the normal stuff (speed, average speed, distance, trip distance) then just about anything will do IMHO. Personally I'd go for a wired, rather than wireless as there's less to go wrong and fewer batteries to worry about. Though having said that (a) I've never replaced a battery on a cycling computer and (b) I'm using a wireless speed/cadence sensor these days!

Before I switched to having a Garmin Edge I had a CatEye Strada (http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/279), if I was switching back I'l probably get a Strada Cadence (http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/407).

I like all the Cateye stuff. The strada cadence, and strade wireless.

The weather's supposed to be nice tomorrow, so I've got my VholdR camera on the handlebar mount for my second R-12 series ride. I'm hoping to capture some decent footage on this route!

Thanks everyone. I may give the cateye a whirl since they seem to be affordable.

I use a Garmin 305 GPS unit, even on long rides. There are battery powered USB device charges for keeping it running for the longer brevets.

And even better, you can use your hub dynamo to charge it as well. For example see http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/ewerk.asp

And even better, you can use your hub dynamo to charge it as well. For example see http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/ewerk.asp

Careful. There is currently some discussion about the E-werk on the BicycleLifestyle list. It turns out that the E-werk won't give a constant 5V output below 10mph, which has caused issues for the iPhone so far (for example) and may cause issues for other USB powered devices.

B+M are releasing a cache battery soon.

I currently have

Shimano DH-3D71 hub
Shimano DH-3N31 hub
B+M Lumotec IQ Fly Senso Plus
B+M Seculite Plus Rear Mudguard
Smart 3 LED Kidney Rear Light
Smart B-Spoke 1/2 LED Lightset

I've had a variety of cheap (read: rubbish) computers in the past. Planning to get a new Cateye after Christmas. Also going to get a second dynamo light set including the new(ish) B+M Toplight Line Plus.

Careful. There is currently some discussion about the E-werk on the BicycleLifestyle list. It turns out that the E-werk won't give a constant 5V output below 10mph, which has caused issues for the iPhone so far (for example) and may cause issues for other USB powered devices.

B+M are releasing a cache battery soon.

Another much less expensive alternative that comes with the battery is made by Dahon (http://www.dahon.com/news/releases/08272009.htm) and should be available in March.

Another much less expensive alternative that comes with the battery is made by Dahon (http://www.dahon.com/news/releases/08272009.htm) and should be available in March.

That's a clever idea, since it includes a battery that stores the charge from the hub and makes it available for recharging a device.

That's a clever idea, since it includes a battery that stores the charge from the hub and makes it available for recharging a device.

Yeah that's the same idea as the B+M battery.

Careful. There is currently some discussion about the E-werk on the BicycleLifestyle list. It turns out that the E-werk won't give a constant 5V output below 10mph, which has caused issues for the iPhone so far (for example) and may cause issues for other USB powered devices.

B+M are releasing a cache battery soon.

Glad I cancelled my order for one.

I've traversed most of America, parts of Canada and Australia (this was with a person that knew the area though), and be gone for months at a time with no electronics except for a bike computer. I rely on paper maps and never gotten lost. Adventure Cycling has great maps for the American tourist. Topographic maps are very useful for finding camping areas; but these can only be purchased from the regional national forest your going to. State atlas's are very handy as well because they cover topographical info as well; in addition county road maps for a state are a big plus to have for reference. You can get free maps at any court house for the county your in that will show small county roads too plus a wealth of other info. Other free maps that are detailed non-topographic maps produced for many parks and forests can be had as well. Even AAA club can provide you with very good road maps that are free to members.

But keep in mind that no map OR GPS will be 100% accurate. I can't tell you the number of times my friends who have GPS's in their cars have gotten lost with bad information. Somehow I've always had a keen since of direction, and even when my friends got screwed up when I was with them I could figure out were we needed to be without a gps or map. A lot of not getting lost is just common sense and reading signs.