Winter Cycling - Giving up on winter cycling

We are at this moment getting the first snowfall of the year. Since I got run down by a pickup on a fine summer day, last July, I don't have the option of riding and there is nothing I would rather do than go out and have a winter cycling adventure.

Cycling in winter, if you are prepared, is bracing, challenging and healthy. But, as in any season, there are risks you have to rationalize.

I am a firm believer and follower of the idea that you shouldn't waste your time doing anything that you don't like. I quit climbing when one day I found myself up on a big face, thinking about what I was going to do when I got down.

I love cycling ... in almost any conditions.

Every time I've ridden on ice, I've had bad results. Right now, I'm nursing a severely sprained ankle that's cost me almost a week of work.

Never been able to get the studded tires, as when I see them for a reasonable cost, I'm broke; and when I have a bit of money, they're outrageous.

Temps, for the most part, are whatever. Below 10F is a bit painful when the ride is more than about 5-6 miles, otherwise, it's just "brisk".

(FTR, I ride a MTB year-round.)

I'm the opposite -- I kept riding my road bike until the snow fell, but was dying for the snow to come so I could get on my winter bike. I waited with the same enthusiasm kids wait for Christmas -- I love riding in winter. In Minnesota, we were hit hard by a storm this last Tuesday. I couldn't wait to get home and on my bike. Of course people think you're crazy (especially at 40 years of age), but riding into the teeth of a storm is so much fun. The solitude and sense of invincibility is what I like. Most people are holed up in thier houses, so if you're on a bike the world is yours and nothing can stop you. It's just you, the bike, snow falling all around and the howling wind. What could be better than that (other than more snow to blast through)?

I agree with the previous poster about going soft. I'm not indicting anyone, but if you're too soft, you miss out on many beautiful experiences that most people are oblivious to. But to each his own. I'd just prefer to be out there in the world rather than watching it on TV from my living room.

Jeez, I was getting depressed reading some of the other posts. Happy to see someone thinks like me. If I turn the radio on at 6AM and I hear, "It's icy out there, stay off the road unless it's absolutely neccessary...", I hurry up and try to get out there fast, afraid it's going to warm up and I'll miss it! Studded ice tires make most winter conditions truly enjoyable. Really deep snow is not as fun as I thought it would be, just lots more effort and slower going, but I still love the challenge. Super low temps? That's a different type of challenge, but I love learning and applying better dressing techniques to match the conditions. The only scourge of Winter bike commuting that I'm always on the lookout for is the dreaded super-thin layer of slush. The only thing worse is the super-thin layer of slush with falling rain on top of it. Thick enough that your tires can't drill down to the hard surface below, Soft enough that your studs have nothing to bite into, and thin enough that your tread can't help you either. Thin layers of slush with water on top. That's the only part of winter that makes me frown.

BTW, my age is 49.

With the Nokians it's not slippery at all. That includes not only black ice on the roads but inches-thick glacial Anchorage ice with oil and water smeared on top. I can ride easily on ice patches nobody can even walk on.

Last year I was trying to walk up an icy hill with my bike as I was staring to go to work. I couldn't walk it. Got on the bike and easily pedaled up a steep hill with studded tires

yesterday after turning around as I was dismounting the bike gave way and I almost wrenched my back catching it. I don't have studds and realized if I didn't turn around it would be a suicidal ride.

question about studded tires and riding with them:

I have my eye on studded touring tires because they seem like the best of both worlds. But do you guys have opions about tires that look more like MTB tires? Are they better for other reasons?

I realize that the conditions will vary - meaning snow ice slush etc take many forms depending on temperature. Is an MTB style more versatile? If so then maybe on the nasty days I should take my MTB bike and get studded tire for that bike. I would rather stick with one commuting bike cuz I just bought fenders for it and it is my most comfortable bike.

These are the tires I'm considering: Schwalbe Marathon Winter Studded Tire 700 x 35
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/pscoi8/schwalbe_marathon_winter_studded_tire_700_x_35/pp.htm

But these are knobier: Continental Nordic Spike Studded Tire
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/pconsp/continental_nordic_spike_studded_tire/pp.htm

And for the MTB - there are these very wide tires: Innova Ice Husky Studded Snow Tire
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/pikihs/innova_ice_husky_studded_snow_tire/pp.htm

yesterday after turning around as I was dismounting the bike gave way and I almost wrenched my back catching it. I don't have studds and realized if I didn't turn around it would be a suicidal ride.

question about studded tires and riding with them:

I have my eye on studded touring tires because they seem like the best of both worlds. But do you guys have opions about tires that look more like MTB tires? Are they better for other reasons?

I realize that the conditions will vary - meaning snow ice slush etc take many forms depending on temperature. Is an MTB style more versatile? If so then maybe on the nasty days I should take my MTB bike and get studded tire for that bike. I would rather stick with one commuting bike cuz I just bought fenders for it and it is my most comfortable bike.

These are the tires I'm considering: Schwalbe Marathon Winter Studded Tire 700 x 35
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/pscoi8/schwalbe_marathon_winter_studded_tire_700_x_35/pp.htm

But these are knobier: Continental Nordic Spike Studded Tire
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/pconsp/continental_nordic_spike_studded_tire/pp.htm

And for the MTB - there are these very wide tires: Innova Ice Husky Studded Snow Tire
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/pikihs/innova_ice_husky_studded_snow_tire/pp.htm


Innova doesn't have a great reputation. I personally don't like the Marathon Winters for anything more than an inch or two of snow. Otherwise, it's a nice tire. I've got no experience with the Continental but it looks a lot like a Nokian W240 which I do like but you pay a price in rolling resistance.

Another tire to consider if you want to use your commuter bike would be a 35mm Nokian W106. It's is better than the Marathon Winter in the snow and has an adequate amount of studs as long you don't have a lot of icy ruts to contend with.

IMHO a bike with a less aggressive/more upright geometry is preferable in the winter. You're better off with less weight on the front wheel. I use a MTB with drops mounted on a short stem with a lot of rise.

my interest is for a 26 mile round trip work commute on paved roads.

thanks for the opinions!

Innova doesn't have a great reputation. I personally don't like the Marathon Winters for anything more than an inch or two of snow. Otherwise, it's a nice tire. I've got no experience with the Continental but it looks a lot like a Nokian W240 which I do like but you pay a price in rolling resistance.

Another tire to consider if you want to use your commuter bike would be a 35mm Nokian W106. It's is better than the Marathon Winter in the snow and has an adequate amount of studs as long you don't have a lot of icy ruts to contend with.

IMHO a bike with a less aggressive/more upright geometry is preferable in the winter. You're better off with less weight on the front wheel. I use a MTB with drops mounted on a short stem with a lot of rise.

I go MTB all winter with the 160-stud Nokian Mount & Grounds. I pump them to 70 psi in a very warm furnace room, so by the time they cool down outside I guess they're probably in the mid to low 60's, which works well for me unless there's several inches of new snow and then I'll drop the pressure to maybe 45-50. They're not so slow if you're going straight but the drag really picks up if the tires are subject to any lean, which I guess is by design. I do 10 miles each way to work and back and it takes me around 48 minutes as opposed to 44 minutes with slicks pumped to 80 psi on the same bike in warmer weather. It's a worthy trade-off for when you really need the traction. In a couple inches of snow last Wednesday in only took me 54 minutes. I'm sure most motorists navigating Boston that day had more than 6 minutes added to their 10 mile commute;-)

or you can try one of these:
http://www.ktrakcycle.com/

Ktrak absolutely sucks on level ground

What's the pressure recommendation for studded tires? Keep them softer like for cross-country or mountain biking or hard?

Adam

It's Nokians or nothing. Everything else is junk. A Gazza Extreme 294 will go thru anything

Monday it was to get above zero. Rode to work at -7 F. Hit 30 for the ride home. Hate cold, love riding. Did a 12 miler yesterday. I guess I love riding more than winter and snow. Super sloppy today. Should be melted in the next few days. Loving the studs on the hardpack snow, fast!

Really deep snow is not as fun as I thought it would be, just lots more effort and slower going, but I still love the challenge

That's what the fatbikes were invented for! If you have an ice bike for sinking down with studs and a fat bike for floating, you're set!

http://alaskabikeblog.blogspot.com/

yesterday after turning around as I was dismounting the bike gave way and I almost wrenched my back catching it. I don't have studds and realized if I didn't turn around it would be a suicidal ride.

question about studded tires and riding with them:

I have my eye on studded touring tires because they seem like the best of both worlds. But do you guys have opions about tires that look more like MTB tires? Are they better for other reasons?

I realize that the conditions will vary - meaning snow ice slush etc take many forms depending on temperature. Is an MTB style more versatile? If so then maybe on the nasty days I should take my MTB bike and get studded tire for that bike. I would rather stick with one commuting bike cuz I just bought fenders for it and it is my most comfortable bike.

These are the tires I'm considering: Schwalbe Marathon Winter Studded Tire 700 x 35
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/pscoi8/schwalbe_marathon_winter_studded_tire_700_x_35/pp.htm

But these are knobier: Continental Nordic Spike Studded Tire
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/pconsp/continental_nordic_spike_studded_tire/pp.htm

And for the MTB - there are these very wide tires: Innova Ice Husky Studded Snow Tire
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/pikihs/innova_ice_husky_studded_snow_tire/pp.htm

The Schwalbe's use carbide studs - the studs last longer than the actual tire. The Continental doesn't appear to (I'm sure if they did, they'd be writing all about it) so I wouldn't ride it unless it's all offroad riding - the studs will wear out before the tire, often to your surprise when one day it doesn't work. Innova tires don't use carbide studs either, *and* have a shoddy reputation.

All Nokian and Schwalbe winter tires use carbide studs, and are recommended. They make several knobby tires.

I don't disagree that the marathon winters aren't great in more than an inch or two of snow, but they're great on ice and the lowest rolling resistance of any tire. The other guy covered everything I've heard - the Nokian w106's are a little better in snow, but a little slower rolling.

A mountain bike tire is more versatile *if* you don't consider your speed. The drawback of the knobbier studded tires are they are notably slower to ride. A lot of people do as you suggest - put the heavy duty tires on one bike, and the "touring" tires on their regular bike. There's often only about 7-14 days of enough snow to need the knobby's, so you save a ton of commute time using the faster bike on a regular basis.

I almost wiped out on ice 3 times on Friday night so I am developing some rules. #1 being the roads must be clear of snow and ice. I really am trying to resist studded tires. I'm hard-core but not a die-hard ... :-)

Lol, not riding when the roads aren't clear, rather than simply buying hardier (studded) tires...not real hardcore of you. :-)

I tried winter cycling for two winters, but this year I am less motivated to continue. It is just too much of a production. Plus riding at night is not safe no matter how lit up I am . It is difficult to see what traffic is doing behind me, so I have to assume they see me. Has anyone else come to the same conclusion as me? And I do have the best clothing, studded tires, brightest lights etc... My commute is 1 hour door to door each way.

I know what you mean in some ways - I get tired of the whole production of changing clothes, checking the weather, etc etc.

I don't really agree about the "after dark" thing, though. I feel way more visible at night with good "real" lights. During the day it's easier accidentally blend into the landscape. At night my lights *clearly* show where I am. Because the scenery isn't lit up, there's less stuff to look at and I feel like I stand out more.

I've been winter cycling in Montreal for 6 winters as a messenger in the 80-90's , now at almost ten years at this particular job in Toronto. While my experiences are urban based(re: snow clearing and lack of shoulders, etc.) I've never been off the road due to conditions, ice rain/cold/wind/snow storms... I've never ridden studs nor felt the need. I found a nice pizza pie sized piece of ice the other day and turned on it on purpose to test the old skills. Slid the front wheel laterally for about ten inches, grabbed traction on the far side and rode away, without being sketchy. It's really not that hard. I respect anyone not wanting to do it though, as I do get sick of the layering too, and not everyone can still it out all the time.

you like ice? even black ice?
Black, white, green, purple... it doesn't matter. With my Extreme 294s I can climb a 10% grade on that stuff with not a slip.

Just for kicks we race on ice rinks and lakes in Feb. Massively screwed tires to create razor sharp Ice Spike tires. Hella fun. Talk of a banked oval track (ICE VELODROME..FUK YEA!!) during a ski-doo race weekend up north of Toronto.

Still need permission to bomb a ski hill on my bike though , it's gonna happen even if I have to walk up in the treeline.

I've been winter cycling in Montreal for 6 winters as a messenger in the 80-90's , now at almost ten years at this particular job in Toronto. While my experiences are urban based(re: snow clearing and lack of shoulders, etc.) I've never been off the road due to conditions, ice rain/cold/wind/snow storms... I've never ridden studs nor felt the need. I found a nice pizza pie sized piece of ice the other day and turned on it on purpose to test the old skills. Slid the front wheel laterally for about ten inches, grabbed traction on the far side and rode away, without being sketchy. It's really not that hard. I respect anyone not wanting to do it though, as I do get sick of the layering too, and not everyone can still it out all the time.

Studded tires are great to save your ass when you've had a long day and are tired and momentarily do something stupid. Having said that i think people should get a feel for riding on ice without studs to get a sense of what they shouldn't try to do on ice. I also think steep icy downhills and off-camber corners(mostly found on bike paths) are two areas I wouldn't be so excited to cycle on without my precious studs.

I've been winter cycling in Montreal for 6 winters as a messenger in the 80-90's , now at almost ten years at this particular job in Toronto. While my experiences are urban based(re: snow clearing and lack of shoulders, etc.) I've never been off the road due to conditions, ice rain/cold/wind/snow storms... I've never ridden studs nor felt the need. I found a nice pizza pie sized piece of ice the other day and turned on it on purpose to test the old skills. Slid the front wheel laterally for about ten inches, grabbed traction on the far side and rode away, without being sketchy. It's really not that hard. I respect anyone not wanting to do it though, as I do get sick of the layering too, and not everyone can still it out all the time.

There's a lot of talk about studded tires in this forum and not that much about technique, -which I've realized recently can go a long way towards instilling confidence on bad roads. Rather than expecting the tires to always have perfect traction its good to know how to handle the bike when they don't.

Still, I'm not so worried about the pizza pie sized ice patches that I can see. I'm worried about the 30 foot long ones lurking under a thin layer of snow. Or the ones covering an entire hill.

With my city riding, big hills of ICE are a pretty rare thing. It's happened where I've slid the bike sideways and foot-down slid down a stretch of ice. If I were out of the city I'd more than likely be rocking studs as well. My experiences are, for the most part, dicing it up with traffic. My ice riding is on the streets with ruts and humps of frozen slush or the inevitable patches of black ice at the intersections, or the occasional frozen rain dump which is pretty fun as well. If I felt the need to punish myself by riding in/on the bike lanes I'd experience more ice, but I ride with the cars... and the cars get the snow clearing city budget of millions a season, clearing bike paths is a complete after thought. Those nice long strips of ice .... just stay loose and calm and no sudden movements, and be ready to get a foot down... just in case. Worked so far, no disasters....

Enjoy the winter y'all.

Every time I've ridden on ice, I've had bad results. Right now, I'm nursing a severely sprained ankle that's cost me almost a week of work.

Never been able to get the studded tires, as when I see them for a reasonable cost, I'm broke; and when I have a bit of money, they're outrageous.

Temps, for the most part, are whatever. Below 10F is a bit painful when the ride is more than about 5-6 miles, otherwise, it's just "brisk".

(FTR, I ride a MTB year-round.)
I got to tell ya! I was very pleasantly surprised at the prices here -> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp Cheaper than my road tires. These are my first studded tires, but from the little bit of shopping around I did, seemed very reasonable.

I got to tell ya! I was very pleasantly surprised at the prices here -> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp Cheaper than my road tires. These are my first studded tires, but from the little bit of shopping around I did, seemed very reasonable.

$45 for the Mount and Ground is a very nice buy! I've got a pair but I'm tempted to grab a couple more.

$44 for the W106s, which seemed like the best option for Columbus type snow/ice.

Waiting on my Marathon Winters (35mm) to come from Germany - should be here just after Christmas. Can't wait to get out and try them out on some ice! Although knowing my luck it will proceed to be an unusually warm winter - but after the recent snow storms I am hopeful!!
I like the prospect of winter cycling for a number of reasons:

- not that much more stuff to wear than in summer (I wear cycling clothing in summer too, so I still specifically get changed)
- it surprises people
- cars in London can't really be used effectively in snow - lack of gritting and snow tyres etc.
- still better than public transport!