Road Cycling - Building the bike I want on a budget...

For all you gurus and LBS people out there, a question on how mixing and matching parts of a bike work....

So I'm really trying to have my LBS build my dream (but somewhat budgeted) bike and to get the Orbea Orca frame, I am willing to go with ultegra parts (as opposed to the way more expensive Campy chorus it usually comes in) to do so.

My crazy math is as follows:
Orbea Orca frame set = $2,199.99
Lobular Carbon frame set = $1,299.99
Difference = $ 900

Orbea Liege full bike with ultegra parts and Lobular carbon frame = $2400 so if I swapped the frame (with the Orca) I should be paying roughly $3,300 for the bike a really want, correct? Instead I just got a quote for $3300 for everything NOT INCLUDING wheels (at least another $400) at which case the cost seems to go way higher.

Are there special kits, fees or adjusting involved because the price will be coming rather close to the the campy chorus, team Jelly belly, full bike orbea orca is $ 4300.

Smart selling tactics? Should I be haggling? Should I try and get a local bike club (whihc I am looking for btw) to intervine?

Input most welcome.

For all you gurus and LBS people out there, a question on how mixing and matching parts of a bike work....

So I'm really trying to have my LBS build my dream (but somewhat budgeted) bike and to get the Orbea Orca frame, I am willing to go with ultegra parts (as opposed to the way more expensive Campy chorus it usually comes in) to do so.

My crazy math is as follows:
Orbea Orca frame set = $2,199.99
Lobular Carbon frame set = $1,299.99
Difference = $ 900

Orbea Liege full bike with ultegra parts and Lobular carbon frame = $2400 so if I swapped the frame (with the Orca) I should be paying roughly $3,300 for the bike a really want, correct? Instead I just got a quote for $3300 for everything NOT INCLUDING wheels (at least another $400) at which case the cost seems to go way higher.

Are there special kits, fees or adjusting involved because the price will be coming rather close to the the campy chorus, team Jelly belly, full bike orbea orca is $ 4300.

Smart selling tactics? Should I be haggling? Should I try and get a local bike club (whihc I am looking for btw) to intervine?

Input most welcome.

I'm not sure I totally follow your pricing as you haven't provided a complete breakdown, but:
1) Just buying Ultegra everything doesn't get you enough to build a functional bike. You're still missing handlebar / stem / seatpost / headset / bar tape / tires / etc., the price of which can start adding up fast.

2) It seems like you're saying that you can get an Orbea Liege with Ultegra straight from the factory for $2400. And then you took the price difference of an Orbea Orca frame minus the cost of a bare Orbea Liege frame (i.e., the $900), and added $2400 to get the effective cost of your dream bike? If I'm understanding you correctly, then the problem is that Orbea (the company) can get Ultegra parts much cheaper then your LBS can. Economy of scale -- buy a lot of anything, you're going to get a discount.

I'm a terrible negotiator, so I'm not giving any advice on haggling...

With item number 2 I think you summed up the situation pretty well.

I guess I'm going to have to figure out another way to cut costs ... you think going thru a local bicycle club will help?

Maybe there is a place locally that sells used parts?

Here in Chicago, we have two places we can go to get used parts. I don't think I'll be able to get the good stuff [i]easily[/e], but given time and persistance, if I wanted the good stuff, I'm sure I could get it from one of those places. Otherwise, start scouting ebay and other auction sites, or even check places like Salvation Army or something like that- sometimes people will give away bikes with great parts that you can get from a used store, and you can strip the frame for what you need for nearly nothing.

Koffee

I'm not sure I totally follow your pricing as you haven't provided a complete breakdown, but:
1) Just buying Ultegra everything doesn't get you enough to build a functional bike. You're still missing handlebar / stem / seatpost / headset / bar tape / tires / etc., the price of which can start adding up fast.

2) It seems like you're saying that you can get an Orbea Liege with Ultegra straight from the factory for $2400. And then you took the price difference of an Orbea Orca frame minus the cost of a bare Orbea Liege frame (i.e., the $900), and added $2400 to get the effective cost of your dream bike? If I'm understanding you correctly, then the problem is that Orbea (the company) can get Ultegra parts much cheaper then your LBS can. Economy of scale -- buy a lot of anything, you're going to get a discount.

I'm a terrible negotiator, so I'm not giving any advice on haggling...

Actually maybe I'm approaching my "math" formula wrong.

Let's say you see a top model bike in you LBS. Carbon frame, full Campy chorus, great wheel set etc. Can you ask the LBS to (when they build yours) use ultegra instead? What sort of discount would you expect? Taking it a bit further, let's say you also change the wheel set (in case the originals don't ft you budget).

Is this unreasonable to ask?

From $4300 change campy chorus to Ultegra and maybe cheaper wheelset will defintiely be lower than the quotes I'm getting (assuming ofcourse that my request is not out of line).

Discount will be much less than you think, because the shop is going to charge full
retail LBS price for the new groupo, plus a labor charge to R&R the parts and then
be stuck with not quite new Campy parts to sell. Some shops, they would go out
the door in a flash, in others gather dust. Wheel set is a bit easier, no labor charge
but would depend again on the local market. You would get credit of at best whole
sale on the wheelset off and retail on the new wheelset. Tire R&R might add a charge. LBS could probably waive a tire charge, but not a groupo change out labor
charge. Steve

Arggggh foiled again.

Thanks for the input though.

In other words, instead of typically upgrading/swapping a component or two on a complete road bike purchase, what you're asking your LBS to do is to instead swap to a more expensive frame? Isn't that the same as asking them to swap the entire Chorus groupo on the expensive bike for an Ultegra and give you a discount for the difference? That ain't gonna work.....

In other words, instead of typically upgrading/swapping a component or two on a complete road bike purchase, what you're asking your LBS to do is to instead swap to a more expensive frame? Isn't that the same as asking them to swap the entire Chorus groupo on the expensive bike for an Ultegra and give you a discount for the difference? That ain't gonna work.....

Yeah I guess not. But like I said, I'm not so familiar with what you can/can't ask for and better I find it out now then be the a$$ at the LBS demanding for the moon and the stars.