Road Cycling - Not impressed by shimano, what is the alternative?

Is campagnolo the only other popular alternative to shimano? My next bike I think I'm going to give campagnolo a try. How does the order of their components go, and what is the closest performance comparison for campagnolo, of ultegra?

Anyone that uses campagnolo components, how do you like it? Smooth shifting? Any noises in the cranks or BBs, anything like that? How about weight? In general, any problems you've had?

IMHO (and I'm an admitted Campy snob) DA and Record are near identical. While I feel that Chorus slots in slightly above Ultegra. Also right now Ultegra is not available in 10s while Chorus currently is. The new Ultegra will be available in 10s.

Search for Campagnolo in the forums, because there's another post that has the order that Campy goes in. From what I've read Record was a class above DA, but that's just what I've read. I've never had Campy so I don't know.

I think the best bang for the buck as far as Campy goes is for the Centaur group. It is just as good if not better than Ultegra, and it costs less. It does not have any of the fancy carbon of Record or Chorus though.

Campagnolo from the bottom up is
xenon
mirage
veloce
centaur $534
chorus $902
record $1326

and Shimano is
2200
sora
tiagra
105
ultegra $515
dura-ace (7800) $1140

prices are for groups from totalcycling, do not include headsets, hubsets, posts whatnot. This is similar to the trend I've seen at most places ultegra is the cheapest I've seen as low as $350, then centaur, then chorus, then dura-ace then record. Generally it's tough to find the lower end stuff in groups.

Weight is similar across party lines as long as your comparing equals. Centaur and ultegra are pretty close. Dura-ace and record are pretty close, and I'd say chorus is a little closer to the top ones than the bottom ones. Then 105=veloce (roughly), below that I'm not too sure.

I use shimano and the only real complaint I have is the durability of the shifter mechanism, but I was riding tiagra way too much and way too hard and you can't expect a group like that to take that type of abuse. Rear deraileur pulleys overheated because the bearings in them must have died, ultegra definately shifts faster and smoother than tiagra.

Shimano and campagnolo are the most popular. Sram makes a few parts, chains, cassettes, I've used both and they're great. There are tons of cranks and brakes, it gets more difficult to swap stuff like shifters because they're indexed so you can't mix and match too much.

sparknote s....... I'm just curious, what exactly don't you like about Shimano?

hm, echoing fixer.. what exactly is it about shimano? what makes you think campy would make a diff? when brand new or kept in great shape, truth is there isn't much difference in the two (at least, in _use_). they look diff and cost diff and one might last longer/etc., but in use, they are near matches..

sd

"Ditto" :rolleyes:

i wish suntour was still around (the way they were in the 80s)...who knows what they would've come up with in the way of integrated shifting.

The days of true competition with bicycle components are gone. I like Campy but only having 2 players in the parts game doesn't make good news for consumers. I can remember Nashbar catalogs with 5 different derailleur brands.

The Campy hierarchy listed above is correct. Problem with Campy right now is that the Euro is doing really well against the US$ and the yen isn't. Campy has never been cheap but right now it's real high. I hear that Shimano USA is trying to get their retailers in line so as to keep their stuff at a higher price so the price discrepancy might not be permanent.

I agree if you're looking for Ultegra level Centaur is a good choice. If you have the $ Chorus is at a higher level and if this is the "dream build" or you're just rolling then Record is where it's at. I'm slowly building a Chorus bike now FWIW.

:beer:

There are various manufacturers who make competing components to both Shimano and Campy. Admittedly, there are no real good substitutes in the derailleur and shifter department although alternatives do exist. But for brakes, cranks, cassettes, chains, cables, hubs, bottom brackets, seatposts, headsets, etc, there are plenty of choices that will work alongside brand S and brand C. You can even sometimes mix and match parts from brand S and brand C together. My grouppo mix for my next bike upgrade goes something like this:

Headset: Chris King NoThreadSet Ti (already have this though)
Seatpost: Easton EC90
Shifter/Brake Levers: Campy Record 10sp ErgoPower
Cranks: Stronglight Pulsion
Bottom Bracket: FSA Platinum Pro Ti or Stronglight Twister
Front Derailleur: Campy Record
Rear Derailleur: Campy Record
Chain: Wipperman Connex 1011
Cassette: Campy Record 12-26 or 13-29 or possibly custom combination
Wheels: Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL with Mavic FTS hubs
Brakes Calipers: Zero Gravity

There are various manufacturers who make competing components to both Shimano and Campy. Admittedly, there are no real good substitutes in the derailleur and shifter department although alternatives do exist. But for brakes, cranks, cassettes, chains, cables, hubs, bottom brackets, seatposts, headsets, etc, there are plenty of choices that will work alongside brand S and brand C. You can even sometimes mix and match parts from brand S and brand C together. My grouppo mix for my next bike upgrade goes something like this:

Cranks: Stronglight Pulsion

Brakes Calipers: Zero Gravity


holy crap!!!! nice looking cranks!! what do those run (price-wise)?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tour04/tech/voeckler-bike/CH9115.jpg

and i can't get enough of the ZG brakes...*droool*

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tech/news/jan29/zero.jpg

oh yeah, i'm looking at getting mostly chorus sometime soon. might opt for a different crankset, or keep my FSAs 'cross cranks, but put regular road rings on them.

maybe i'll just get the chorus drivetrain and shifters and keep my 105 brakes as i haven't had any issues with them thus far, then i could save for some nice wheels.

i really wish there was a viable alternative to shifters and derailleurs though. like, modolo should just make a derailleur set and cassette that actually work well with the morphos shifters...that would be nifty.

I have 2 bikes, one with Shimano 105, and one with Campy Centaur 10sp.
the Shimano I have for 4 years, and the campy for only a bit over a month (~400 miles).

Here are my personal preferences. And when I say personal, I mean personal. each one of us has different style of riding, and different goals, so when I say "my personal impression" I mean it in context with my style of riding and goal.. (sorry for such a long preface, but I want to make sure I don't get flamed)..

I can not compare the quality of the 2 systems because one is too new, and the other (105) works great. So I assume the quality will be comparable.

Shimano has more options (105/Ultegra/Dura ace mix and match) and more after market stuff, and it is a lot cheaper because of that. I got a Ultegra 9sp cassette for $35.00.. You cant get anything Campy for that price.

Campy has the thumb shifter and in the beginning I thought would be a pain in the a$$, but once I got use to it, I find that I like it better, mostly because the brake lever is fixed, and doesn't swing.

What I really like about Campy is that in one motion I can go up (higher) 3-4 gears in one smooth swoop. Just press on the thumb shifter across 3-4 clicks and it is there.. Great for when I climb and want to stand up.

I like the hoods of Shimano better because they feel wider and more substantial, but no big deal..

the first 100 miles on the Campy were not fun. it too time for it to break in and be as accurate and smooth as they are now.. and after 400 miles it is even better..

Which will I get for my next bike? I don't really care, what ever it it will come with..

Shimano has more options (105/Ultegra/Dura ace mix and match) and more after market stuff, and it is a lot cheaper because of that. I got a Ultegra 9sp cassette for $35.00.. You cant get anything Campy for that price.

Campy has the thumb shifter and in the beginning I thought would be a pain in the a$$, but once I got use to it, I find that I like it better, mostly because the brake lever is fixed, and doesn't swing.

What I really like about Campy is that in one motion I can go up (higher) 3-4 gears in one smooth swoop. Just press on the thumb shifter across 3-4 clicks and it is there.. Great for when I climb and want to stand up.

I like the hoods of Shimano better because they feel wider and more substantial, but no big deal..

the first 100 miles on the Campy were not fun. it too time for it to break in and be as accurate and smooth as they are now.. and after 400 miles it is even better..

nice eisenstraut! my concern about switching to campy is about the shifters, because right now, with my 105 setup, i have them mounted on bullhorns, because it's convenient. i've tried using them on traditional road drops, but my hands always get really sore, and i think it's because the hoods are too large on the shimanos. so, do you think the campy shifters would be better for someone with smaller hands? and...if i still get hand pain with them, do you think they'd work well on bullhorns, with regard to the positioning of the thumb shifter?

i know i should just go out and test ride a campy-equipped bike, but it's hard for me to want to go to other shops, and the one i work for doesn't deal in too much high-end stuff...before i make my final decision, i will go test ride it.

My Questions Is Why The Hell You dont Like Shimano

me? or sparknote s?

holy crap!!!! nice looking cranks!! what do those run (price-wise)?

A friend of mine is getting a set so I'll be able to touch them in person sometime next weekend. He says they run about $500. They're pricey but still much cheaper than the Campy carbon cranks and only a hundred bucks more than the new Shimano Dura-Ace. Of course the new Shimano cranks come with the BB. I think that the Pulsions look better than either of the other two. Given that there are so many alternatives for sweet looking cranks from companies like FSA, IRD (check out their fully Campy-compatible crank that works with the Campy BB), and Stronglight... most of which look better, perform on par if not better and sometimes are cheaper, I'm surprised that people seem to think their choices are limited in that dept.



and i can't get enough of the ZG brakes...*droool*

Same here and SteveE reports that the Webcor folks say they stop just as good as Shimano and Campy.

i think it's because the hoods are too large on the shimanos. so, do you think the campy shifters would be better for someone with smaller hands?

As someone with smaller hands who currently rides Shimano STI (9sp) and has tried Campy Ergo, I can tell you that the Ergos do work much better for smaller hands. The reach is less, the hoods feel more comfortable and fit better, the shift lever reach is even movable, the thumbshifters are reachable from drops, the hoods and even parts of the tops depending on the shape of the bars. While I also like many of the operational features of Ergo over STI, I can adjust and become accustomed to either system without much trouble. However, I think my primary motivation for the intended switch to Ergo is comfort and fit.

sparknote s....... I'm just curious, what exactly don't you like about Shimano?

sparknote s replies in another thread:
'I get weird noises, I read about BB problems numerous times on the internet, don't like how the cabling looks. And I hear something about the cranks is odd, how it isn't tapered or something, whjich could be a reason for my noises'.

Correct. Another thing is the shifter clamps. For some reason, my shifters tend to turn inward after awhile. If find this even more odd, because the grip tape is wrapped across the inside of the shifter, so if anything it would hold it more outward. And I've tried it on two pairs of road drop bars, still the same thing happens.

OK sparknote, we grant you permission to switch over to Campy.

For some reason, my shifters tend to turn inward after awhile.
how about getting the clamp holding the hoods tightened down? If your bike is fairly new, I'd take it back to the LBS and politely insist they take care of the problem for free.

On a side note....I have a question regarding suntour. Have you ever heard of a cyclone 2 groupo? This is the component set on an older bike I'm considering buy.,

On a side note....I have a question regarding suntour. Have you ever heard of a cyclone 2 groupo? This is the component set on an older bike I'm considering buy.,

Suntour invented the modern slant parallelogram derailleur design and Cyclone was an excellent group. I don't know the difference between the Cyclone and the Cyclone II group, but the Cyclone components on my old Trek work really well. Twenty-five years old and still performing nicely.