Advocacy & Safety - Jaywalkers

I was riding down Commercial (Vancouverites will know of which I speak) unlike the idiots I see riding their bikes on the sidewalks on Commercial, anyway, I digress.

A crackhead/drunk/semi-hobo guy dashed out in front of me (without warning) not in an intersection, completely and utterly jaywalking. He either saw me and didn't care, or didn't look in the first place. I had to pile on the brakes to avoid hitting him. I yelled "Use the crosswalk!" and he yelled "**** you, *****!" or words to that effect. Anyway, why do jaywalkers dash in front of us cyclists when they would never do that in front of a car in the same manner? I'm often a pedestrian and a definite jaywalker but I only cross when it's completely clear, I don't cut off cyclists etc.

Moral of the story, watch out for stupid jaywalkers on Commercial Drive, eh?:notamused:

Sacramento is Jaywalk City. If you ride down here, you have to stay on your toes. It's only fair since the cars don't seem to pay any attention to the crosswalks.

When I walk on Commercial, there's LOADS of pedestrian crossings, I can't remember having an issue with cagers not stopping. The marked pedestrian crossings are very frequent, unlike other places where they are few and far between. Closer to where I live big trucks etc blow the pedestrian crossings (when the light indicates the pedestrian has the right to cross) which is scary.

Also, it annoys me to no end, especially when I'm a pedestrian how many cyclists ride the sidewalks on Commercial. Get.on.the.road. where you belong.

He yelled back at you cause he didn't know he was doing anything dangerous and figured you were a busybody not minding your own business. Next time run into the jaywalker and prove the point by example.
Or ring your bell incessantly, its harder to argue with it since its not words.

If it makes you feel better, jaywalkers dart in front of cars also.

He yelled back at you cause he didn't know he was doing anything dangerous and figured you were a busybody not minding your own business. Next time run into the jaywalker and prove the point by example.
Or ring your bell incessantly, its harder to argue with it since its not words.

I have a bell, but my LBS sells Air Zounds. For $20. I'm seriously considering buying one. Imagine the fun! Jaywalker tries to cut in front of me..."AIR ZOUND!" Jaywalker = almost has heart attack. :D

Come to NYC for a few days:) Here, very few people are NOT jaywalking. They dash in front of city buses, vans, fire trucks, ambulances. Yeah, I'm tempted to get Air Zounds too :D

A.

We should both get one (or two) and stop procrastinating. I sometimes ride on the cycle path around Stanley Park here and the gorram pedestrians walk on the Bike/roller blader side and sometimes yelling at them to move/ringing bell doesn't work. I imagine an Air Zound would be verrrryyy effective. :D

All right. I'll pass by few bike shops tomorrow and if they don't have it I'll order online. I think it'll be useful in NY traffic. I also read on hiking forums that people carry those attached to their backpacks while hiking in bear country, they're apparently effective in scaring bears and other wild animals away. Some people reported that they were able to scare away attacking dogs with it as well.

Adam

Oh awesome! I found some youtube videos of air zounds in action...hilarious stuff. :D

Yeah, but we need to avoid the temptation to abuse it. I saw statements from cyclists who on suppose pull up close to pedestrians or cars with opened windows and blast their horns to startle people, that's not very cool.

Adam

True, though I can see the LULZ in messing with cagers.

I see peds jaywalking in the dark on my morning commute all the time.

Just the other week, a jaywalker dressed in black bolted across an unlit section of road directly in my path. He was hard to see, but I was watching carefully. I planned on going around the back end of him when he saw me and stopped mid road. As passed him, I said, "Invisible". I hope he thought about that.

One of the reasons pedestrians are injured on a regular basis is because they jaywalk amongst moving vehicles. Another reason they are is because motorists aren't looking for and can't (or won't) stop for pedestrians when they're driving (even if they're in a cross walk).

It's careless behavior that leads to injuries, not whether you're on foot, riding a bicycle, or driving a car. Keep your eyes peeled for bozos.

I was riding down Commercial (Vancouverites will know of which I speak) unlike the idiots I see riding their bikes on the sidewalks on Commercial, anyway, I digress.

A crackhead/drunk/semi-hobo guy dashed out in front of me (without warning) not in an intersection, completely and utterly jaywalking. He either saw me and didn't care, or didn't look in the first place. I had to pile on the brakes to avoid hitting him. I yelled "Use the crosswalk!" and he yelled "**** you, *****!" or words to that effect. Anyway, why do jaywalkers dash in front of us cyclists when they would never do that in front of a car in the same manner? I'm often a pedestrian and a definite jaywalker but I only cross when it's completely clear, I don't cut off cyclists etc.

Moral of the story, watch out for stupid jaywalkers on Commercial Drive, eh?:notamused:

A lot of this is because people have over the last 50 years or so, become conditioned to listen for a motor vehicle engine when crossing the street, and they don't look anymore. Of course the increasing popularity of bicycles, hybrids and electric scooters mean that not looking is going to result in some non-looking pedestrians ending up with their names in the newspaper, and some will end up featured on the dearly departed page.:eek:

What a surprise. Another thread where Luddite complains about something. I'm shocked.

Maybe just realize that not everyone is paying attention to you and write it off as living in the vicinity of other people. You didn't hit him, you didn't go down, you both got to continue with your lives, he to using crack and you to *****ing about every little thing...

What a surprise. Another thread where UA tries to troll. I'm not shocked.



fify.

As far as airzounds go, I had a friend let one off near me. It is deafening. I would not be surprised if that elicited a hostile reaction.

I was riding down Commercial (Vancouverites will know of which I speak) unlike the idiots I see riding their bikes on the sidewalks on Commercial, anyway, I digress.

A crackhead/drunk/semi-hobo guy dashed out in front of me (without warning) not in an intersection, completely and utterly jaywalking. He either saw me and didn't care, or didn't look in the first place. I had to pile on the brakes to avoid hitting him. I yelled "Use the crosswalk!" and he yelled "**** you, *****!" or words to that effect. Anyway, why do jaywalkers dash in front of us cyclists when they would never do that in front of a car in the same manner? I'm often a pedestrian and a definite jaywalker but I only cross when it's completely clear, I don't cut off cyclists etc.

Moral of the story, watch out for stupid jaywalkers on Commercial Drive, eh?:notamused:

Was your jaywalker yaking on the cell phone, or listening to an iPod? Over the summer I had a dummy get off of the bus put phone to ear and step off of the sidewalk right into my path. Luckily for her it was a Sunday, and I was paying attention. The irony is that she was just a couple of yards from a crosswalk.

And the irony is that people complain about cyclists but how often do ya hear about people complaining about pedestrians?

Nope. No iPod/phone etc was in evidence. I'm sure some cagers...somewhere...are complaining about pedestrians. :)

I have a bell, but my LBS sells Air Zounds. For $20. I'm seriously considering buying one. Imagine the fun! Jaywalker tries to cut in front of me..."AIR ZOUND!" Jaywalker = almost has heart attack. :D

I've seem the Air Zounds, if it wasn't for the fact that I don't have anywhere to affix it I've considered getting one. I'd be better off with a regular air horn tucked into one of my jersey pockets.

Nope. No iPod/phone etc was in evidence. I'm sure some cagers...somewhere...are complaining about pedestrians. :)

One can only hope, one can only hope.

... the irony is that people complain about cyclists but how often do ya hear about people complaining about pedestrians?

not much because most people walk. It's always easier to blame others (and not yourself) for bad behavior. Cyclists are an easy group to blame because they're a minority. Different.

Any rugby players on bikeforums? Maybe they'd have some good input to the
idea of crashing with a pedestrian while staying on the bike. Do bike cops
get trained in that kind of thing? Bike rugby could be fun... I'm not advocating
mowing down peds here, just learning how to deal with a collision

I don't mind jaywalkers as long as they have the decency of at least jogging across your way. The ones I hate are those who clearly see you and expect you to slow down for them as they casually walk across. The last time someone did this to me (some white trash gangsta guy, who looked me in the eye and then kept on struting slowly after I yelled at him from 20 metres away), I kept my speed until imminent impact, at which point I squeezed my front brake hard enough to lift my rear wheel slightly off the ground. This was also during the period when my pads were out of adjustment and were squacking like crazy. It scared the crap out of him and he ran onto the sidewalk.

A crackhead/drunk/semi-hobo guy dashed out in front of me (without warning)...

I could post that every single day. Status Quo in New Orleans. It's amazing that I have only tagged one of them in 30 years.

I've seem the Air Zounds, if it wasn't for the fact that I don't have anywhere to affix it I've considered getting one. I'd be better off with a regular air horn tucked into one of my jersey pockets.

They can mount just about anywhere, not just a water bottle cage. They're light enough the bottle can mount with a single zip tie, the horn/button can mount on any roundish tube roughly the size of a handlebar. You can stick the whole thing on a fork leg if you want.

I actually added one to my commuter after fending off a pedestrian attack -- he lunged towards me in a tunnel, I saw him coming and steered into him. He had his arms straight out to shove me off the bike, a mistake on his part since my momentum knocked him back and let me get away. (This in a tunnel that had recently seen muggings and attempted muggings of cyclists, the I-90 bicycle tunnel in Seattle.) I was quite sore where his palms hit my shoulder and chest, I'm glad I didn't have to feel his wrists the next morning.

I decided I'd rather have some defense available other than my own momentum if it happened again, and I knew the AirZound was loud enough to be disorienting in small spaces. I haven't needed it for another mugging attempt, but it has attracted the attention of various distracted motorists and more than one jaywalker.

But, in general, I steer or brake to avoid jaywalkers. They may be breaking the law themselves, but that doesn't override the basic duty to avoid accidents on my part. If I hit a jaywalker who didn't jump out right in front of me, that's my fault too. Doesn't mean I like it, just part of sharing the road.

They can mount just about anywhere, not just a water bottle cage. They're light enough the bottle can mount with a single zip tie, the horn/button can mount on any roundish tube roughly the size of a handlebar. You can stick the whole thing on a fork leg if you want.

I actually added one to my commuter after fending off a pedestrian attack -- he lunged towards me in a tunnel, I saw him coming and steered into him. He had his arms straight out to shove me off the bike, a mistake on his part since my momentum knocked him back and let me get away. (This in a tunnel that had recently seen muggings and attempted muggings of cyclists, the I-90 bicycle tunnel in Seattle.) I was quite sore where his palms hit my shoulder and chest, I'm glad I didn't have to feel his wrists the next morning.

I decided I'd rather have some defense available other than my own momentum if it happened again, and I knew the AirZound was loud enough to be disorienting in small spaces. I haven't needed it for another mugging attempt, but it has attracted the attention of various distracted motorists and more than one jaywalker.

But, in general, I steer or brake to avoid jaywalkers. They may be breaking the law themselves, but that doesn't override the basic duty to avoid accidents on my part. If I hit a jaywalker who didn't jump out right in front of me, that's my fault too. Doesn't mean I like it, just part of sharing the road.

My front fork being a suspension fork is a larger diameter then my handlebars and sadly the because of both the size and geometry of my frame there other then the side of the top tube there isn't anywhere to attache the bottle. And even finding a spot to affix the bottle that still leaves me with nowhere to mount the horn itself. Hence carrying a regular/standard air horn in one of my jersey pockets is about the only way to go. :-(

jaywalkers are pretty annoying if for no other reason than I swear about half of the ones that walk out in front of me when I'm riding my bike look straight at me first. But pedestrians are a really good reason not to cower in the gutters, they tend to see an opening and fill it rather quickly.

I almost hit one a couple of years ago while driving my car. 20 or so people were jaywalking, and another 20 were on the sidewalk getting ready to jaywalk when they saw me and stopped. Since the road was clear, I proceeded, but one of the people that had already cleared my lane was spooked by me approaching, and tried to run back to the sidewalk. I think both of us saw our lives flash before us.

But, in general, I steer or brake to avoid jaywalkers. They may be breaking the law themselves, but that doesn't override the basic duty to avoid accidents on my part. If I hit a jaywalker who didn't jump out right in front of me, that's my fault too. Doesn't mean I like it, just part of sharing the road.

This is the best advice in my opinion. When it comes down to reflex, I would probably swerve to avoid a jaywalker quicker than I could reach for a bell or horn. I'm sorry this happened to you Luddite, jaywalkers will probably be on your mind for a while now, especially across the previous stretch of road. I suspect that most jaywalkers do it by hearing for cars on both sides of the road without actually looking for a (relatively) quieter bike. At least be thankful nobody was hurt due to your quick reflexes on the brakes.

This is the best advice in my opinion. When it comes down to reflex, I would probably swerve to avoid a jaywalker quicker than I could reach for a bell or horn. I'm sorry this happened to you Luddite, jaywalkers will probably be on your mind for a while now, especially across the previous stretch of road. I suspect that most jaywalkers do it by hearing for cars on both sides of the road without actually looking for a (relatively) quieter bike. At least be thankful nobody was hurt due to your quick reflexes on the brakes.

Agreed. You can get hurt too. Getting into an accident is not fun regardless of who's at fault. But that doesn't change the fact that we can complain about jaywalkers :D

A.

A crackhead/drunk/semi-hobo guy dashed out in front of me (without warning) not in an intersection, completely and utterly jaywalking. .... Anyway, why do jaywalkers dash in front of us cyclists when they would never do that in front of a car in the same manner?

This question would be better asked on a Jaywalkers forum. Most of the folks here are cyclists.

What a surprise. Another thread where Luddite complains about something. I'm shocked.

Maybe just realize that not everyone is paying attention to you and write it off as living in the vicinity of other people. You didn't hit him, you didn't go down, you both got to continue with your lives, he to using crack and you to *****ing about every little thing...

Another vote for a "Charity" sticky for whiners and complainers about every little thing to do their thing, unmolested by common sense.
See: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?611170-Right-hooked&p=10200994&viewfull=1#post10200994

But, in general, I steer or brake to avoid jaywalkers. They may be breaking the law themselves, but that doesn't override the basic duty to avoid accidents on my part. If I hit a jaywalker who didn't jump out right in front of me, that's my fault too. Doesn't mean I like it, just part of sharing the road.

The essence of defensive cycling, stated very succinctly. Assume full ownership for your own safety, regardless of the bonehead moves made by others.

It usually takes two people making a mistake to result in a collision - don't be one of them (loosely translated from Robert Hurst's writings).

Jaywalkers aside, I'm happy to learn that there are a few people in other parts of the world who still practice the dying art of walking. Around here, it's just a necessary evil to get to where one's car is parked.

Any rugby players on bikeforums? Maybe they'd have some good input to the
idea of crashing with a pedestrian while staying on the bike. Do bike cops
get trained in that kind of thing? Bike rugby could be fun... I'm not advocating
mowing down peds here, just learning how to deal with a collision

When I was about 12 or 13, we used to play a game in our neighborhood that we called "bike tag". The point of the game was to get whoever was "it" to have to touch the ground the ground. With any body part. Yes, that usually meant the feet, but it didn't have to be. Whoever forced "it" to touch the ground was then "it". He'd speed off and we'd be chasing him, trying to get him to stop or even ramming him so he'd have to touch the ground.

Other than that, no rules. At all.

I also played football in college - American football.

With those varied experiences in my past, I'd highly recommend NOT deliberately crashing into a pedestrian. An adult travelling any decent speed on a bike is going to be subjecting himself to the potential for some very, very serious injury by doing that. Never mind what you and your bike would potentially do to a pedestrian.

Look at it this way: the combined closing speed between two NFL players probably almost never exceeds 15 MPH. And they're wearing all kinds of padding, in great shape, and built like solid-muscle tanks. And they know how to take a hit like that. And sometimes they STILL get serious injuries.

Besides, if you do crash your bike could get damaged. :(

When I was about 12 or 13, we used to play a game in our neighborhood that we called "bike tag". The point of the game was to get whoever was "it" to have to touch the ground the ground. With any body part. Yes, that usually meant the feet, but it didn't have to be. Whoever forced "it" to touch the ground was then "it". He'd speed off and we'd be chasing him, trying to get him to stop or even ramming him so he'd have to touch the ground.

Other than that, no rules. At all.

Sounds like good training for urban bicycle commuting.

What a surprise. Another thread where Luddite complains about something. I'm shocked.

Maybe just realize that not everyone is paying attention to you and write it off as living in the vicinity of other people. You didn't hit him, you didn't go down, you both got to continue with your lives, he to using crack and you to *****ing about every little thing...

Ugh
http://reflectionsofamirror.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/disposable_baby_diaper.jpg

What a surprise. Another thread where Luddite complains about something. I'm shocked.

Maybe just realize that not everyone is paying attention to you and write it off as living in the vicinity of other people. You didn't hit him, you didn't go down, you both got to continue with your lives, he to using crack and you to *****ing about every little thing...


Another vote for a "Charity" sticky for whiners and complainers about every little thing to do their thing, unmolested by common sense.
See: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?611170-Right-hooked&p=10200994&viewfull=1#post10200994Amazing that you two spend so much effort just whining about what everyone else post.

So basically, stop getting my bikes tuned/greased so they make tons of noise and jaywalkers can hear me coming? :D Ok, I wouldn't actually do that...

CB: aint worth it dude, trust me.

I know how you feel Luddite.

I've had a couple run-ins with jaywalkers. One particular guy made eye contact with me before crossing the street, and just walked in front of me anyways. As I dodged him, he yelled, "Gotcha good f*g bicyclist!"

Most just don't seem to be paying attention and just jump out.

Holy crap, Mike...

Holy crap, Mike...
Its a rare exception, and the only story I've ever heard like it. I was also kinda in a rough neighborhood.

jaywalkers are pretty annoying if for no other reason than I swear about half of the ones that walk out in front of me when I'm riding my bike look straight at me first. But pedestrians are a really good reason not to cower in the gutters, they tend to see an opening and fill it rather quickly.

I almost hit one a couple of years ago while driving my car. 20 or so people were jaywalking, and another 20 were on the sidewalk getting ready to jaywalk when they saw me and stopped. Since the road was clear, I proceeded, but one of the people that had already cleared my lane was spooked by me approaching, and tried to run back to the sidewalk. I think both of us saw our lives flash before us.

Ah the squirrel syndrome. Why is it that those pesky little rodents do that? As it just about guarantees that they'll get hit?

Ah the squirrel syndrome. Why is it that those pesky little rodents do that? As it just about guarantees that they'll get hit?
In the 'burb I grew up in, squirrels are fair game.

In the 'burb I grew up in, squirrels are fair game.

To quote Seinfield "it's only birds that we have a 'deal' with, squirrels are on their own." Or something like that. It was the episode where George hit a squirrel after having hit some birds and Krammer found the old talk show set decorations.

Its a rare exception, and the only story I've ever heard like it. I was also kinda in a rough neighborhood.

Crikey. Good reason to pedal harder eh?

Ugh
http://reflectionsofamirror.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/disposable_baby_diaper.jpg
A&S isn't the most whine-free place but I didn't realize how bad it could get until Whiny McWhinerson popped in...

A&S isn't the most whine-free place but I didn't realize how bad it could get until Whiny McWhinerson popped in...

Wait, you, who incessantly snivels about everything in foo, posting idiotic threads about snivelly crap non stop are saying my thread, where I outline a near-crash and warn my fellow Vancouverites about a bad area for jaywalkers and to get other people's input on this problem is whining?

Le fail troll strikes out again. You're about the most snivelly whiney fail troll I've come across in my 10+ years on the Internets. How about ya go on a diet, get a job, get a life and mind your own damned business eh? I feel sorry for your girlfriend. Do you drug her food to make her stay with your greasy fat worthless ass?

I am going to lock this thread and let an A&S mod handle this. Thanks. Mark.