Neil_B
01-04-10, 01:54 PM
Any advice for a large, clumsy Clyde who wants to give winter camping a try?
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - OT: Winter Camping Advice
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Frosty861
01-04-10, 02:33 PM
Yes. First read this http://www.call-wild.com/quinzee.html . Trust me, it works. Second, if you are really going to do this, I recommend a "test" in your back yard. This will provide a much shorter walk to warmth. Bring a ground cloth, high quality sleeping bag, wear a hat in the bag, eat plenty of high energy food and enjoy the stars at night and the sun in the morning. Oh yes, and if you have a dog, bring him/her (mobile heat source).
Best of Luck,
Lee
Best of Luck,
Lee
CliftonGK1
01-04-10, 02:57 PM
I love winter camping, and I tend to ultralight it the same as I do in the summer.
I bring my collapsible rescue shovel, tent poles and the rainfly for my tent, along with some deadman anchors. I've got the measurements for my tent fly memorized, so I dig a trench shelter just smaller than the fly dimensions. I make a sleeping shelf deep enough that I'm below the snow surface, and a footwell so I can sit up straight to eat/dress/etc. The fly gets popped up over the trench and deadman anchored in the snow, then I will take some of the snow I dug from the trench and wall up the bottom of the fly so there's no wind getting inside.
I put a light Thermarest foam roll-up on the sleeping shelf as insulation, and use a mid-weight fill power down mummy bag. If it's really cold, I'll wear my wool base layer and hat to sleep.
Do not let your clothes get damp with sweat when hiking or building shelter.
A single tealight candle inside a fly'd trench shelter can raise the temperature to a comfortable level. In a snow cave, it can become quite warm, to the point of removing clothing layers.
For extra warmth, boil some water and keep a bottle at the foot of your sleeping bag, stuffed in a wool sock so you don't burn yourself.
White gas stoves are best for winter camping if you're doing anything above 3000' elevation, but you can get an isobutane stove (I use an MSR Pocket Rocket) to work if you keep your fuel canister in your sleeping bag overnight to keep the fuel warm. A cold isobutane canister is useless, except as a paperweight.
I bring my collapsible rescue shovel, tent poles and the rainfly for my tent, along with some deadman anchors. I've got the measurements for my tent fly memorized, so I dig a trench shelter just smaller than the fly dimensions. I make a sleeping shelf deep enough that I'm below the snow surface, and a footwell so I can sit up straight to eat/dress/etc. The fly gets popped up over the trench and deadman anchored in the snow, then I will take some of the snow I dug from the trench and wall up the bottom of the fly so there's no wind getting inside.
I put a light Thermarest foam roll-up on the sleeping shelf as insulation, and use a mid-weight fill power down mummy bag. If it's really cold, I'll wear my wool base layer and hat to sleep.
Do not let your clothes get damp with sweat when hiking or building shelter.
A single tealight candle inside a fly'd trench shelter can raise the temperature to a comfortable level. In a snow cave, it can become quite warm, to the point of removing clothing layers.
For extra warmth, boil some water and keep a bottle at the foot of your sleeping bag, stuffed in a wool sock so you don't burn yourself.
White gas stoves are best for winter camping if you're doing anything above 3000' elevation, but you can get an isobutane stove (I use an MSR Pocket Rocket) to work if you keep your fuel canister in your sleeping bag overnight to keep the fuel warm. A cold isobutane canister is useless, except as a paperweight.
Rhodabike
01-04-10, 04:36 PM
Don't do it. Book a nice hotel room with a Jacuzzi tub. :D
boy scout 161
01-04-10, 05:54 PM
A good tent and/or bivy bag, sleeping bag and sleeping pad. Sweat (or any moisture) is your enemy. Wool is your friend. Dress in layers. Always have a warm hat, gloves, socks and shoes. Goretex doesn't like heat, so keep it away from your stove (learned the hard way). Start out camping close to a heated shelter just in case. Hypotherma will kill you. Frostbite/Frostnip sucks. Watch the weather. Take an empty gatoraid bottle to bed with you to urinate in (it sucks getting out of a warm bag to pee). Take something good to read, the nights are long.
SouthernGirl
01-04-10, 06:01 PM
Kelly kettles are wonderful for rapid cooking/water heating and using almost anything for fuel.
sstorkel
01-04-10, 06:02 PM
Any advice for a large, clumsy Clyde who wants to give winter camping a try?
It's easy to get dehydrated if you let all of your water freeze.
Trying to pound tent pegs into frozen ground is rarely successful.
Cooking inside your tent is a good way to turn your shelter into a (very brief) fireball.
It's easy to get dehydrated if you let all of your water freeze.
Trying to pound tent pegs into frozen ground is rarely successful.
Cooking inside your tent is a good way to turn your shelter into a (very brief) fireball.
minnesotamongo
01-04-10, 06:19 PM
There was just a great article on Winter camping in the "Volunteer" this month.
Here's a video summary of the winter camping article...
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/janfeb10/winter_camping_video.html
Here's a video summary of the winter camping article...
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/janfeb10/winter_camping_video.html
professorbob
01-04-10, 08:18 PM
Go to REI, EMS, Cabella's or some similar place. They'll have some very expensive stuff to sell you, but they'll also have some experience. You'll be able to see some of the equipment you'll need and they'll be able to tell you how to use it.
StephenH
01-04-10, 09:16 PM
It is highly variable.
I went backpacking in Guadalupe Mountains once. It got dark about 6:00, it was windy, cold, you're not allowed to build campfires, so there was nothing to do but crawl in a sleeping bag and sleep 12 hours. It would have been good reading time, had I toted a library with me, but I neglected to do so.
I went backpacking once near Fort Collins, CO, and slept on snow (that is, sleeping bag + mats + tent floor on snow). That was sort of neat, because if it was lumpy, you could just pound the lumps out. But I never was quite warm enough, either.
Try sleeping bags on in the store to make sure they fit. They like to make them for fit people. The ratings are very approximate.
Don't be afraid to wear extra clothing while in the sleeping bag.
Propane stuff doesn't work well when it's cold.
If you have cheap rectangular summer bags, you can put one inside the other for extra warmth.
Car camping is a lot easier than backpacking or bicycle camping with winter gear. You can't hardly carry enough gear to keep you warm in really bad weather. I've seen guys snowshoeing in the mountains, and pulling a sled behind them with gear. Getting lighter more compact gear means more money, too.
I went backpacking in Guadalupe Mountains once. It got dark about 6:00, it was windy, cold, you're not allowed to build campfires, so there was nothing to do but crawl in a sleeping bag and sleep 12 hours. It would have been good reading time, had I toted a library with me, but I neglected to do so.
I went backpacking once near Fort Collins, CO, and slept on snow (that is, sleeping bag + mats + tent floor on snow). That was sort of neat, because if it was lumpy, you could just pound the lumps out. But I never was quite warm enough, either.
Try sleeping bags on in the store to make sure they fit. They like to make them for fit people. The ratings are very approximate.
Don't be afraid to wear extra clothing while in the sleeping bag.
Propane stuff doesn't work well when it's cold.
If you have cheap rectangular summer bags, you can put one inside the other for extra warmth.
Car camping is a lot easier than backpacking or bicycle camping with winter gear. You can't hardly carry enough gear to keep you warm in really bad weather. I've seen guys snowshoeing in the mountains, and pulling a sled behind them with gear. Getting lighter more compact gear means more money, too.
Neil_B
01-04-10, 10:34 PM
I love winter camping, and I tend to ultralight it the same as I do in the summer.
I bring my collapsible rescue shovel, tent poles and the rainfly for my tent, along with some deadman anchors. I've got the measurements for my tent fly memorized, so I dig a trench shelter just smaller than the fly dimensions. I make a sleeping shelf deep enough that I'm below the snow surface, and a footwell so I can sit up straight to eat/dress/etc. The fly gets popped up over the trench and deadman anchored in the snow, then I will take some of the snow I dug from the trench and wall up the bottom of the fly so there's no wind getting inside.
I put a light Thermarest foam roll-up on the sleeping shelf as insulation, and use a mid-weight fill power down mummy bag. If it's really cold, I'll wear my wool base layer and hat to sleep.
Do not let your clothes get damp with sweat when hiking or building shelter.
A single tealight candle inside a fly'd trench shelter can raise the temperature to a comfortable level. In a snow cave, it can become quite warm, to the point of removing clothing layers.
For extra warmth, boil some water and keep a bottle at the foot of your sleeping bag, stuffed in a wool sock so you don't burn yourself.
White gas stoves are best for winter camping if you're doing anything above 3000' elevation, but you can get an isobutane stove (I use an MSR Pocket Rocket) to work if you keep your fuel canister in your sleeping bag overnight to keep the fuel warm. A cold isobutane canister is useless, except as a paperweight.
Winter camping for me will be no higher than 1200 feet above sea level, and probably be snow-free. Also, I'll have the car handy. And temps rarely get below 20 here in SE PA. I've camped twice in 40 degree weather - once in a pouring rainstorm.
My questions are:
1. can I get away with using my normal tent - a Columbia Lost Lake 2 person model. The main difference between three and four season tents is that the latter are reinforced to withstand the weight of snow, correct?
2. I hate to invest in cold weather gear, but I don't have any pants aside from jeans that I can bring into the outdoors. Somehow I don't think denim is an ideal fabric for such purposes. Any suggestions?
3. Starting a fire when it's cold out. Is it as hard as Jack London made it out to be? :-) Seriously, I might skip the fire since I'll be doing this alone. Who am I to share campfire stories with?
I bring my collapsible rescue shovel, tent poles and the rainfly for my tent, along with some deadman anchors. I've got the measurements for my tent fly memorized, so I dig a trench shelter just smaller than the fly dimensions. I make a sleeping shelf deep enough that I'm below the snow surface, and a footwell so I can sit up straight to eat/dress/etc. The fly gets popped up over the trench and deadman anchored in the snow, then I will take some of the snow I dug from the trench and wall up the bottom of the fly so there's no wind getting inside.
I put a light Thermarest foam roll-up on the sleeping shelf as insulation, and use a mid-weight fill power down mummy bag. If it's really cold, I'll wear my wool base layer and hat to sleep.
Do not let your clothes get damp with sweat when hiking or building shelter.
A single tealight candle inside a fly'd trench shelter can raise the temperature to a comfortable level. In a snow cave, it can become quite warm, to the point of removing clothing layers.
For extra warmth, boil some water and keep a bottle at the foot of your sleeping bag, stuffed in a wool sock so you don't burn yourself.
White gas stoves are best for winter camping if you're doing anything above 3000' elevation, but you can get an isobutane stove (I use an MSR Pocket Rocket) to work if you keep your fuel canister in your sleeping bag overnight to keep the fuel warm. A cold isobutane canister is useless, except as a paperweight.
Winter camping for me will be no higher than 1200 feet above sea level, and probably be snow-free. Also, I'll have the car handy. And temps rarely get below 20 here in SE PA. I've camped twice in 40 degree weather - once in a pouring rainstorm.
My questions are:
1. can I get away with using my normal tent - a Columbia Lost Lake 2 person model. The main difference between three and four season tents is that the latter are reinforced to withstand the weight of snow, correct?
2. I hate to invest in cold weather gear, but I don't have any pants aside from jeans that I can bring into the outdoors. Somehow I don't think denim is an ideal fabric for such purposes. Any suggestions?
3. Starting a fire when it's cold out. Is it as hard as Jack London made it out to be? :-) Seriously, I might skip the fire since I'll be doing this alone. Who am I to share campfire stories with?
Tom Stormcrowe
01-04-10, 10:36 PM
Walmart has FLeece Long Underwear on clearance right now for $15. Ior colder.t's some warm stuff. Good for dosn to -15
Take some Fire Starters. You will find them in either Sporting goods or hardware in Walmart. The campfire is always nice, solo or with a partner.
Take some Fire Starters. You will find them in either Sporting goods or hardware in Walmart. The campfire is always nice, solo or with a partner.
SouthernGirl
01-04-10, 10:51 PM
Shoot, as long as you're not cooking over it, the fire logs that are used in place of wood, can be used alone or to start the fire. They will help heat/dry damp wood if needed. They burn for 2-3 hours each but don't put out tons of heat. I like to build wood up around them. We sometimes buy a box of them and use them as an easy fire start if we're more into the fire than the experience of building the fire.
The fire starters Tom Stormcrowe mentioned are right in the same area. Same stuff, just different sizes, I believe.
Cold weather is my preferred time to camp. We don't usually get terribly cold here. (though it's 17 F tonight) Just be prepared to sleep in some thermals and jeans. Keep your feet warm (love wool socks) and sleep with a hat to keep your head covered.
There's nothing better than that first cup of strong hot coffee on a cold morning.
Have fun, be safe.
The fire starters Tom Stormcrowe mentioned are right in the same area. Same stuff, just different sizes, I believe.
Cold weather is my preferred time to camp. We don't usually get terribly cold here. (though it's 17 F tonight) Just be prepared to sleep in some thermals and jeans. Keep your feet warm (love wool socks) and sleep with a hat to keep your head covered.
There's nothing better than that first cup of strong hot coffee on a cold morning.
Have fun, be safe.
GeorgeWerr
01-04-10, 11:51 PM
Hi Historian,
There have been some great sugestions hear, I camp every mounth of the year with the Boy Scouts. I'm not as far north as you I live in R.I. and most of my camping in the cold months are close to home usuly 15 - 40 degrees in the winter
1. you will need a sleeping pad this is very important it will insulate you from the ground your sleeping bag will not insulate from the ground. These cost $10 - $100
2. you will need a good Sleeping bag, "do not get one from a dept store" go to an outfiter such as E.M.S. or R.E.I. There's a E.M.S. in North Conway that I like but there are other outfitters as good or beter this will be pricey $100 - $300. You need to know that the ratings on sleeping bags are alot like weights on cycling gear as they are far off.
3. as for tents I would not spend to much money here. I like the "A" frame tents for winter camping the snow will fall off easer. Eureka Timberline can be found for about $100 at campmor.com
4. Your right jeans are not a good idea but everyone has them if you wear long johns under them you will probaly be ok as long as you stay dry, they take forever to dry. If posable try to stay away from all cotton cloths.
5. Hat and gloves are a must and replacement wool socks
As others have said try to have a bailout plan such as close to your car or heated shelter for the first couple of trips
This can be scary to do in the winter but I have had some of my best camping in the winter. No bugs, no humity, and theres not a thousand people around
George
There have been some great sugestions hear, I camp every mounth of the year with the Boy Scouts. I'm not as far north as you I live in R.I. and most of my camping in the cold months are close to home usuly 15 - 40 degrees in the winter
1. you will need a sleeping pad this is very important it will insulate you from the ground your sleeping bag will not insulate from the ground. These cost $10 - $100
2. you will need a good Sleeping bag, "do not get one from a dept store" go to an outfiter such as E.M.S. or R.E.I. There's a E.M.S. in North Conway that I like but there are other outfitters as good or beter this will be pricey $100 - $300. You need to know that the ratings on sleeping bags are alot like weights on cycling gear as they are far off.
3. as for tents I would not spend to much money here. I like the "A" frame tents for winter camping the snow will fall off easer. Eureka Timberline can be found for about $100 at campmor.com
4. Your right jeans are not a good idea but everyone has them if you wear long johns under them you will probaly be ok as long as you stay dry, they take forever to dry. If posable try to stay away from all cotton cloths.
5. Hat and gloves are a must and replacement wool socks
As others have said try to have a bailout plan such as close to your car or heated shelter for the first couple of trips
This can be scary to do in the winter but I have had some of my best camping in the winter. No bugs, no humity, and theres not a thousand people around
George
txvintage
01-05-10, 05:20 AM
I hear winter camping in San Diego, Phoenix, and Miami is quite enjoyable.
funrover
01-05-10, 06:59 AM
If you are going to go spend the $$ on a good mummy bag/sleeping bag. You will be fine. Also for sleeping wear THIN underlayers only. While it sounds odd the less you wear the warmer you are... I just can't go comando personally.
Tents:
There is a big difference between a 4 season and your basic tent and winter is when you really feel it. Search CL for a nice 4 season, My sisters Kelty is awesome as it provides a little area to cook and leave your boots that is not in the sleeping area but is still "inside"
Tents:
There is a big difference between a 4 season and your basic tent and winter is when you really feel it. Search CL for a nice 4 season, My sisters Kelty is awesome as it provides a little area to cook and leave your boots that is not in the sleeping area but is still "inside"
CliftonGK1
01-05-10, 08:47 AM
Since we're assuming snow-free and on the upside of 20 degrees:
1. can I get away with using my normal tent - a Columbia Lost Lake 2 person model. The main difference between three and four season tents is that the latter are reinforced to withstand the weight of snow, correct?
You can use your normal tent. I use a 3 season North Face Rock22 rainfly over my trench shelter. The fabric will stand the temperature just fine. Differences in winter tents are not only reinforcement against snowfall, but also different venting to avoid humidity buildup from breathing, different fabrics to keep floors from freezing, shapes/placements of doors, and for expedition tents there are features for ultra low temperature weather. (Mountain Hardwear EV-series tents have a zip open floor trap so you can answer the call of nature without exposure to the elements.)
2. I hate to invest in cold weather gear, but I don't have any pants aside from jeans that I can bring into the outdoors. Somehow I don't think denim is an ideal fabric for such purposes. Any suggestions?
A pair of fleece long johns and the rain pants from your bike kit. That's what I usually wear (my rain pants are hiking pants anyhow.)
3. Starting a fire when it's cold out. Is it as hard as Jack London made it out to be? :-) Seriously, I might skip the fire since I'll be doing this alone. Who am I to share campfire stories with?
Magnesium starter tape works wonders. Water/windproof camp matches are another key element: They have a huge flare zone with some crazy accelerants. I lit my stove, took the match and plunged it lit end into the packed snow, and it kept burning until the flare zone was fully burned up. You'll be whisked away like Dorothy and Toto before the wind can blow one of these matches out.
1. can I get away with using my normal tent - a Columbia Lost Lake 2 person model. The main difference between three and four season tents is that the latter are reinforced to withstand the weight of snow, correct?
You can use your normal tent. I use a 3 season North Face Rock22 rainfly over my trench shelter. The fabric will stand the temperature just fine. Differences in winter tents are not only reinforcement against snowfall, but also different venting to avoid humidity buildup from breathing, different fabrics to keep floors from freezing, shapes/placements of doors, and for expedition tents there are features for ultra low temperature weather. (Mountain Hardwear EV-series tents have a zip open floor trap so you can answer the call of nature without exposure to the elements.)
2. I hate to invest in cold weather gear, but I don't have any pants aside from jeans that I can bring into the outdoors. Somehow I don't think denim is an ideal fabric for such purposes. Any suggestions?
A pair of fleece long johns and the rain pants from your bike kit. That's what I usually wear (my rain pants are hiking pants anyhow.)
3. Starting a fire when it's cold out. Is it as hard as Jack London made it out to be? :-) Seriously, I might skip the fire since I'll be doing this alone. Who am I to share campfire stories with?
Magnesium starter tape works wonders. Water/windproof camp matches are another key element: They have a huge flare zone with some crazy accelerants. I lit my stove, took the match and plunged it lit end into the packed snow, and it kept burning until the flare zone was fully burned up. You'll be whisked away like Dorothy and Toto before the wind can blow one of these matches out.
Neil_B
01-05-10, 09:42 AM
While on the subject, I looked at some hunting gear, and was surprised at how much of it uses cotton. Fortunately for me that was a turn-off. Had I purchased and worn 'camo' my transformation into a redneck would be near complete. :-)
StephenH
01-05-10, 11:15 AM
My questions are:
1. can I get away with using my normal tent - Yes, if it's not just super windy or something. If you're not too far from your car, no problem, if all else fails, go hop in your car.
2. I hate to invest in cold weather gear, but I don't have any pants aside from jeans that I can bring into the outdoors. Somehow I don't think denim is an ideal fabric for such purposes. Jeans are fine if it's not raining or snowing, and once again, if you're not too far from your car, no problem.
3. Starting a fire when it's cold out. Is it as hard as Jack London made it out to be? :-) Seriously, I might skip the fire since I'll be doing this alone. Who am I to share campfire stories with? If you have a fire ring there, sure, go ahead and build a fire. If it's windy, you can freeze on one side while you roast on the other, so it's not an ideal solution to keeping warm. It may be harder to build, but not that much different, especially if you have dry paper or something to start it with. IE, if you're car-camping at a campground, no problem. If you're backpacking in the outback, likely to be more trouble than it's worth.
1. can I get away with using my normal tent - Yes, if it's not just super windy or something. If you're not too far from your car, no problem, if all else fails, go hop in your car.
2. I hate to invest in cold weather gear, but I don't have any pants aside from jeans that I can bring into the outdoors. Somehow I don't think denim is an ideal fabric for such purposes. Jeans are fine if it's not raining or snowing, and once again, if you're not too far from your car, no problem.
3. Starting a fire when it's cold out. Is it as hard as Jack London made it out to be? :-) Seriously, I might skip the fire since I'll be doing this alone. Who am I to share campfire stories with? If you have a fire ring there, sure, go ahead and build a fire. If it's windy, you can freeze on one side while you roast on the other, so it's not an ideal solution to keeping warm. It may be harder to build, but not that much different, especially if you have dry paper or something to start it with. IE, if you're car-camping at a campground, no problem. If you're backpacking in the outback, likely to be more trouble than it's worth.
jagraham
01-09-10, 09:55 AM
I had hoped to do a short ride with gear from West Newton to Cedar Creek park for an overnight - build a campfire at the shelter and watch the snow fall and the trains roll by, then explore the abandoned coal cleaning facility at Banning No. 1. I think the trike could handle the snow - if there wasn't so blasted much of it right now. We've had snow everyday since New Year's - and it's getting rather high out here in the highlands. The skiers and snowmobilers are happy (well, the snowmobilers not so much - they lost the pedestrian overpass at the PA Turnpike last month).
On foot, I wear polypropelene thermals under zippered cargo pants, sometimes with lightweight ski pants over that. Topside I usually wear a fleece over the polypro shirt, jacket and goretex shell. Fleece gloves under a Goretex overglove and a polypro balaclava under a hat and earmuffs, wool socks and boots round out the ensemble. I always stow an extra set of pants, pajamas (they are warm), gloves and socks in a zip lock and don't take them out unless I'm wet and am out of the weather. Oh, and I like to wear down booties to bed.
I tend to wake up in the wee hours to answer the call of nature (I think that's why it's called the "wee" hours). I started carrying ThermaCare heat wraps for lower back and applying one before I go to bed. It keeps my back warmer, and I don't seem to wake up as often. I keep my Nalgene water bottles in the sleeping bag with me (sometimes I boil H2O and use it as a hot water bottle). I'll throw my underlayer of clothes in the bag with me when I wake up to warm them up a bit before getting dressed.
Mind: "Body -- wake up. You're cold and need to go pee"
Body: "Five more minutes, please. It's cold out there, and I'm warm in here"
Mind: "Alright -- but I'm warning you!"
Body: "zzzz"
- - - - -
Mind: "Wake up -- your five minutes turned into a half-hour!!"
Body: "NO! I'm mostly warm in this sleeping bag... and I can outlast you. Bug me when it's daylight...zzz"
- - - - -
Mind: "Body -- wake up. Kidneys and Bladder are screaming at me to get you moving! So help me I'll
wake you up every 15 minutes if I have to..."
Body: "But it's not daylight like I asked you...zzz"
- - - - -
Body: "Hey Bladder - settle down and get some sleep!!"
Bladder: "I'm tired too - take care of this NOW or you'll be sorry in ten... nine... eight..."
Body: "Mind - help me find the way out PLEASE before I have an accident"
- - - - -
Body: "Hey, it's still cozy and warm in this sleeping bag. I should have gone sooner and not been waking up all morning. If I had only listened..."
- - - - -
BTW - What's the matter with being a redneck?
On foot, I wear polypropelene thermals under zippered cargo pants, sometimes with lightweight ski pants over that. Topside I usually wear a fleece over the polypro shirt, jacket and goretex shell. Fleece gloves under a Goretex overglove and a polypro balaclava under a hat and earmuffs, wool socks and boots round out the ensemble. I always stow an extra set of pants, pajamas (they are warm), gloves and socks in a zip lock and don't take them out unless I'm wet and am out of the weather. Oh, and I like to wear down booties to bed.
I tend to wake up in the wee hours to answer the call of nature (I think that's why it's called the "wee" hours). I started carrying ThermaCare heat wraps for lower back and applying one before I go to bed. It keeps my back warmer, and I don't seem to wake up as often. I keep my Nalgene water bottles in the sleeping bag with me (sometimes I boil H2O and use it as a hot water bottle). I'll throw my underlayer of clothes in the bag with me when I wake up to warm them up a bit before getting dressed.
Mind: "Body -- wake up. You're cold and need to go pee"
Body: "Five more minutes, please. It's cold out there, and I'm warm in here"
Mind: "Alright -- but I'm warning you!"
Body: "zzzz"
- - - - -
Mind: "Wake up -- your five minutes turned into a half-hour!!"
Body: "NO! I'm mostly warm in this sleeping bag... and I can outlast you. Bug me when it's daylight...zzz"
- - - - -
Mind: "Body -- wake up. Kidneys and Bladder are screaming at me to get you moving! So help me I'll
wake you up every 15 minutes if I have to..."
Body: "But it's not daylight like I asked you...zzz"
- - - - -
Body: "Hey Bladder - settle down and get some sleep!!"
Bladder: "I'm tired too - take care of this NOW or you'll be sorry in ten... nine... eight..."
Body: "Mind - help me find the way out PLEASE before I have an accident"
- - - - -
Body: "Hey, it's still cozy and warm in this sleeping bag. I should have gone sooner and not been waking up all morning. If I had only listened..."
- - - - -
BTW - What's the matter with being a redneck?
Neil_B
01-09-10, 10:06 AM
BTW - What's the matter with being a redneck?
How many rednecks do you know with an MP3 player filled with recordings of Mahler symphonies? Or who can quote extended passages from Elizabethan poetry? And I won't even bring up the chess historian business..... :-)
How many rednecks do you know with an MP3 player filled with recordings of Mahler symphonies? Or who can quote extended passages from Elizabethan poetry? And I won't even bring up the chess historian business..... :-)
Neil_B
01-09-10, 10:12 AM
How many rednecks do you know with an MP3 player filled with recordings of Mahler symphonies? Or who can quote extended passages from Elizabethan poetry?
Possibly this guy..... I still find it hard to believe he sang opera professionally in Baltimore:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rowe
Possibly this guy..... I still find it hard to believe he sang opera professionally in Baltimore:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rowe
Tom Stormcrowe
01-09-10, 04:28 PM
Actually, when I lived in Tennessee, I was playing in a bar in Sand Mountain, Alabama with a country band and during a break was playing some classical guitar to get mt shot of culture. An old boy in bib overalls, shapeless felt hat with a turkey feather in the band and clodhopper boots, wearing a wife beater T walked up and said, "Boy, I'd rather hear that Albinez (The Asturias) you was just a-playin than the Johnny Cash covers that band you're in done bin a-playin'. I rekins I prefer classical to country any day of the week".
How many rednecks do you know with an MP3 player filled with recordings of Mahler symphonies? Or who can quote extended passages from Elizabethan poetry? And I won't even bring up the chess historian business..... :-)
How many rednecks do you know with an MP3 player filled with recordings of Mahler symphonies? Or who can quote extended passages from Elizabethan poetry? And I won't even bring up the chess historian business..... :-)
jboyd
01-10-10, 09:52 AM
Exactly what Funrover said. A descent bag wearing multiple layers of thin underwear and you will be uber toasty at the temps you are talking.
Wool: The new wools that are available can be a big part of your success. They are pricey, but the good part is that you can use them across multiple activities. Some will be proponents of poly-pro, but here me out. After a day or two in poly pro, you won't have any friends left, and may not even be able to stand yourself. With wool, you can wear the same thing for days and the odor factor is almost non-existent.
"Wee" hours of the night: I keep a yellow nalgene bottle next to me in the tent. When the urge hits, unzip, unload, re-zip, back to sleep. No one likes to come out of the bag in the cold, but the mind is your enemy here. The warm back up is fast and sleep again comes quick. NOTE: DO NOT DRINK FROM THE YELLOW NALGENE!
Fire: I have a secret. TRIOXANE TABS These are the blue ammonia smelling things that when lit will burn for about 10 minutes and can light a piece of wet wood on fire during a rain storm. The last 5 years, I have used these exclusively. I just open a package of TRIOXANE, stack any size logs on top and light....FIRE!!!!! I have been carrying these in my emergency pack while whitewater kayaking in the winter, in case I need an emergency fire on the river if things go bad or someone is heading into hypothermia. You can get these at Army Surplus Stores.
Butane: Don't burn butane or propane in your tent. For the obvious oxygen depleting resons, but also because in the winter, the butane will cause serious condensation in the tent and you will wake up with icicle stalactites hanging from the tent ceiling, and when the sun comes up it will start to rain inside the tent (personal experience).
Next piece of advice: GO DO IT!!!! Experience is the great teacher. In the past decade, I have spent over 250 nights in a tent, and most of that was in the winter. I winter camp for two reasons. 1. Whitewater - There is more of it in cooler months. 2. I have an unhealthy fear of snakes. I absolutely love the sound of driving rain and thunder while in a tent. Best sleep in the world to me.
Take a Book. Tent time is longer than house time.
Have Fun and report back.
Wool: The new wools that are available can be a big part of your success. They are pricey, but the good part is that you can use them across multiple activities. Some will be proponents of poly-pro, but here me out. After a day or two in poly pro, you won't have any friends left, and may not even be able to stand yourself. With wool, you can wear the same thing for days and the odor factor is almost non-existent.
"Wee" hours of the night: I keep a yellow nalgene bottle next to me in the tent. When the urge hits, unzip, unload, re-zip, back to sleep. No one likes to come out of the bag in the cold, but the mind is your enemy here. The warm back up is fast and sleep again comes quick. NOTE: DO NOT DRINK FROM THE YELLOW NALGENE!
Fire: I have a secret. TRIOXANE TABS These are the blue ammonia smelling things that when lit will burn for about 10 minutes and can light a piece of wet wood on fire during a rain storm. The last 5 years, I have used these exclusively. I just open a package of TRIOXANE, stack any size logs on top and light....FIRE!!!!! I have been carrying these in my emergency pack while whitewater kayaking in the winter, in case I need an emergency fire on the river if things go bad or someone is heading into hypothermia. You can get these at Army Surplus Stores.
Butane: Don't burn butane or propane in your tent. For the obvious oxygen depleting resons, but also because in the winter, the butane will cause serious condensation in the tent and you will wake up with icicle stalactites hanging from the tent ceiling, and when the sun comes up it will start to rain inside the tent (personal experience).
Next piece of advice: GO DO IT!!!! Experience is the great teacher. In the past decade, I have spent over 250 nights in a tent, and most of that was in the winter. I winter camp for two reasons. 1. Whitewater - There is more of it in cooler months. 2. I have an unhealthy fear of snakes. I absolutely love the sound of driving rain and thunder while in a tent. Best sleep in the world to me.
Take a Book. Tent time is longer than house time.
Have Fun and report back.
rschleicher
01-11-10, 04:13 PM
Thermal long underwear under some rain pants is probably fine, but you can also find some relatively cheap snowboarding pants. I say snowboarding rather than skiing, since snowboarding pants typically have reinforced knees and butts (since boarders spend more time either kneeling or sitting on the snow). You don't need insulated pants, just ones that will repel water, while still being breathable. Some decent long underwear (either a synthetic, or silk) underneath will keep you pretty warm.
Foot warmth and dryness is even more important - a boot rated to -40 degrees (coincidentally, -40F is also -40C) is a real good idea. There are any number of modern hunting and hiking boots for winter use that achieve this, but a pair of old-fashioned Sorels (with removable felt liners) is still very effective. (There are also Sorel knock-offs that can be had for less money.)
It doesn't sound like you will have deep snow, so that makes things simpler, although it also may rule out the "fun" of sleeping in a snow cave.
My son's old Boy Scout troop used to have an annual snow-camping trip near to the Donner summit area on the northwest side of Lake Tahoe). (No jokes about their camp menu, please!) By late winter that area has typically received 400+ inches of snow. They would camp near to a cabin, in order to have a place to deal with any emergencies, but almost everybody would dig and sleep in snow caves. It was a few miles of snow-shoeing to reach the camp site. Actually, their first task upon arrival was usually to dig down deep enough to expose the door of the cabin, in case they needed it. (The snow would often be up to roof level, even in compacted form.)
One of the tricks in cutting out snow caves is to curve the roof surface so that drips tend to roll down the walls and under you, rather than drip on you. They can be very warm, albeit a bit claustrophobic for some.
On the one hand there was a ton of snow to deal with, but it also is (usually) not all that cold in the Sierra. So they never had to deal with extreme cold. (meaning below 0F)
Foot warmth and dryness is even more important - a boot rated to -40 degrees (coincidentally, -40F is also -40C) is a real good idea. There are any number of modern hunting and hiking boots for winter use that achieve this, but a pair of old-fashioned Sorels (with removable felt liners) is still very effective. (There are also Sorel knock-offs that can be had for less money.)
It doesn't sound like you will have deep snow, so that makes things simpler, although it also may rule out the "fun" of sleeping in a snow cave.
My son's old Boy Scout troop used to have an annual snow-camping trip near to the Donner summit area on the northwest side of Lake Tahoe). (No jokes about their camp menu, please!) By late winter that area has typically received 400+ inches of snow. They would camp near to a cabin, in order to have a place to deal with any emergencies, but almost everybody would dig and sleep in snow caves. It was a few miles of snow-shoeing to reach the camp site. Actually, their first task upon arrival was usually to dig down deep enough to expose the door of the cabin, in case they needed it. (The snow would often be up to roof level, even in compacted form.)
One of the tricks in cutting out snow caves is to curve the roof surface so that drips tend to roll down the walls and under you, rather than drip on you. They can be very warm, albeit a bit claustrophobic for some.
On the one hand there was a ton of snow to deal with, but it also is (usually) not all that cold in the Sierra. So they never had to deal with extreme cold. (meaning below 0F)
Daspydyr
01-11-10, 06:05 PM
Two Words dude-SOUTHERN ARIZONA! Good camping and you don't need wool or gore tex!
sumguy
01-12-10, 09:21 AM
what do the ultra lighters do when temps are daytime 20s and nighttime teens and little or no snow for cave type shelters?
Neil_B
01-13-10, 11:04 PM
Actually, when I lived in Tennessee, I was playing in a bar in Sand Mountain, Alabama with a country band and during a break was playing some classical guitar to get mt shot of culture. An old boy in bib overalls, shapeless felt hat with a turkey feather in the band and clodhopper boots, wearing a wife beater T walked up and said, "Boy, I'd rather hear that Albinez (The Asturias) you was just a-playin than the Johnny Cash covers that band you're in done bin a-playin'. I rekins I prefer classical to country any day of the week".
The exception that proves the rule. That said, Nashville studios are filled with musicians moonlighting from the town's symphony orchestra (oh those fiddle songs!), and my favorite recording of the Schubert "Trout" Quintet has this bluegrass player as bassist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Meyer
Still, I'd hesitate to call any of them "redneck." :-)
The exception that proves the rule. That said, Nashville studios are filled with musicians moonlighting from the town's symphony orchestra (oh those fiddle songs!), and my favorite recording of the Schubert "Trout" Quintet has this bluegrass player as bassist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Meyer
Still, I'd hesitate to call any of them "redneck." :-)
Neil_B
01-14-10, 10:13 AM
OK, I'm planning on a overnight this Sunday. No hunting in PA on Sundays, so I don't need to worry about getting shot. :-)
Neil_B
01-16-10, 03:17 PM
While on the subject, I looked at some hunting gear, and was surprised at how much of it uses cotton. Fortunately for me that was a turn-off. Had I purchased and worn 'camo' my transformation into a redneck would be near complete. :-)
Too late!
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs176.snc3/20370_1261696795005_1607271639_639500_4419782_n.jpg
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs176.snc3/20370_1261696955009_1607271639_639502_3339988_n.jpg
Too late!
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs176.snc3/20370_1261696795005_1607271639_639500_4419782_n.jpg
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs176.snc3/20370_1261696955009_1607271639_639502_3339988_n.jpg
boy scout 161
01-16-10, 03:58 PM
I like the look :thumb:
youcoming
01-16-10, 04:10 PM
Growing up in Ontario and being a cub, boyscout, venture etc. I did my fair share of winter camping. By the way my leader use to do a cold test every morning, throw a raw egg at a tree, if it bounces off without craking...it's cold, if it shatters......it's really farking cold. I found tent material made little to no difference but if you can find a spot in a cedar bush you have a natural heat absorber, a good sleeping bag, wear a touque and mitts to bed, wool is your friend, cotton is your enemy. I also put my underware and base layer in the sleeping bag with me so it was nice and toasty for the morning.
youcoming
01-16-10, 04:12 PM
Most hunting gear these days is made with cotton to keep the cost down, I have tons of it but I always walk with it either open or in my pack or tied on my pack then put it on when all I'll be doing is sitting down.
Neil_B
01-16-10, 08:46 PM
OK, I'm planning on a overnight this Sunday. No hunting in PA on Sundays, so I don't need to worry about getting shot. :-)
Canceled. We are getting an inch of rain. :-(
Canceled. We are getting an inch of rain. :-(
Neil_B
01-16-10, 08:48 PM
I like the look :thumb:
I do too. Chicks should dig it as well, since they get someone who looks like a hunter but doesn't bring any messy game into their kitchen. :-)
I do too. Chicks should dig it as well, since they get someone who looks like a hunter but doesn't bring any messy game into their kitchen. :-)