Bicycle Mechanics - Building a indestructable wheelset with 700x23 tires? 36h?

I want to build a wheelset that is extremely strong, but also able to take 700x23 tires safely.

I'm 180 lbs and will use the bike for commuting in philly. It needs to be fast for dodging cars but strong enough to plow through all of the disintegrating roads

I was thinking 36 spokes, 105 hubs, and velocity dyads... but I think the dyads might be too wide for what I'm going for.

Any advice / rim suggestions?

http://www.everybicycletire.com/Shopping/c-87-build-a-wheel-tm.aspx?resetfilters=true

How much do you weigh? Generally, a deeper rim will be stronger. The larger bending resistance of the rim helps distribute loads to more spokes. Velocity Deep V's, Kinlin XR-300's, DT RR1.2's, and Mavic CXP-33's come to mind.

BTW, unless you weigh 250+ or are loading the bike up, 32 spokes should do.

You could go with the Mavic CXP33 rims and your choice of hubs with a 32h front and 36h rear. The cxp33 is a good rim at an affordable price and I have owned a few pairs of wheels with cxp33 rims. You might want to check out bicyclewheelwarehouse.com as they have good prices and since you're not in CA, you won't have to pay sales tax.

Or you can just go with the Velocity DeepV as that is what a bunch of fixie guys use because they look cool are are supposedly very durable. I have never used them, so I'm just relaying what I've heard from others.

You could go with the Mavic CXP33 rims and your choice of hubs with a 32h front and 36h rear. The cxp33 is a good rim at an affordable price and I have owned a few pairs of wheels with cxp33 rims.

At 180 lbs (as the OP has said) I think this would be a good choice. I would further recommend Ultegra hubs and DT Swiss Competition spokes (2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0 double butted) is a 3-cross pattern. The Velocity Deep V rims are also strong.
Kevlar reinforced tires would add puncture protection but the extra weight at the outer radius would also reduce acceleration.

Al

At 180 lbs (as the OP has said) I think this would be a good choice. I would further recommend Ultegra hubs and DT Swiss Competition spokes (2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0 double butted) is a 3-cross pattern. The Velocity Deep V rims are also strong.

Al

Oops. Don't know how I missed that.

+1 to DT Comps.

Kevlar reinforced tires would add puncture protection but the extra weight at the outer radius would also reduce acceleration.
I agree. I ride Continental Gatorskins and they have offered me excellent puncture protection with minimal weight gain. I would suggest these tires for the OP as opposed to the Specialized Armadillos which are often recommended but weight almost twice as much.

I'm running the Mavics (CXP 33's) hand built on my stock 32 spoke hubs and have had good luck. I way 235.

I weigh 265 and run DT Swiss RR 1.1 36 hole rims with Dura Ace 7700 36 hole front and rear. The spokes are DT Swiss stainless steel butted with brass nipples. The front is laced 2 cross, the rear is laced 3 cross. The wheels were tensioned and prestressed, then again tension and stress relieved after I had ridden about 500 miles. These rims are accurate to a level of perfection as far as lateral/radial runout - I mean, I didn't measure it or anything but they spin perfect. Continental GP4000's, Ultra Gatorskins or Michelin Krylion Carbons in 700x23 would not only be fast, but I suspect very, very durable.

I've got a set of CXP-33s laced to Ultegra hubs, both 36 hole, 3-cross, 14ga spokes, brass nipples. I started riding on them when I was 240 or 250 pounds back over the summer. A deer wiped me out by running right into my front wheel when I was doing 25 mph on them in September.

They're still dead true.

I got them from Colorado Cyclist. I'd bought from them in the past and for my return to serious cycling wanted a totally bombproof set of wheels from someone I had dealt with in the past. I probably could have gotten them cheaper, but saving a few $$ wasn't at the top of my priority list.

I've since dropped to 210 lbs or so, and I'm currently riding Neuvations and they're a lot lighter. I can definitely feel the heavier weight of the Mavic rims when I accelerate or climb, but those Mavics are definitely bombproof.

I've got a set of CXP-33s laced to Ultegra hubs, both 36 hole, 3-cross, 14ga spokes, brass nipples. I started riding on them when I was 240 or 250 pounds back over the summer. A deer wiped me out by running right into my front wheel when I was doing 25 mph on them in September.

They're still dead

How about the deer?

How about the deer?

No clue. By the time I peeled myself off the ground, it was gone.

Veocity Dyad 32 spoke (14/15/14) with 25 mm Gatorskins

36 hole Mavic open pro is pretty sturdy. I wouldn't worry about rim width. I used to run Mavic MA40 rims and 23c tires, they end up looking too narrow mounted up but it's never a problem.

I would even say they tend to handle better and resist pinch flats more with the wider rim. No experience with the Velocity dyads but plenty of people run Velocity rims with no issues.

Is there any reason you need to use a 700x23c tire? Narrow tires != faster, especially when you have to "plow through all of the disintegrating roads".

-I have been through a lot trying to keep my wheels invincible. I found that gatorskins/armadillos didnt help compared to normal tires.
-Tire liners are by far the most cost efficient way to keep them protected (15$ for both wheels and dont need replacing)
-Upgrading tire size small amounts makes nedgligible difference (small amounts 700x20-28 change) but going to larger tires say 36 means you can have lower pressure in your tubes and its harder for stuff to puncture your tire.
-Also if you get flats on your 700x23C every once and a while you will spend way more time fixing flats then you'll save by going fast. Plus you'll have an unreliable commute time... which sucks... in order to assure you make it somewhere you have to leave early which sucks... I've been there

-Fancy tubes made no difference either.

Get a decent rim and build it with some TLC and you'll be fine

2 biggest things are if you see dirt and stuff on the side of the road dont bike there ... there will be spiky stuff you dont see
Also every once and a while (2weeks to 1 month) I deflate my tire and pick/squeeze out all the hunks of glass which are working their way through my tire.

I race cross on a 36 hole Deep V wheelset, only 36 because I didn't want to buy new hubs. they're indestructible, if you didn't guess as much.

Now if you want indestructible build this (http://www.bowcycle.com/bikes/blogs/viks-picks/2009/01/26/surly-pugsley-review/). Not me.

http://www.bowcycle.com/bikes/blogs/viks-picks/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/pug14.jpg

Awesome machine, Chico!

I'll just add that 18 lbs isn't King Kong. There have been many entries in this forum(s) of people around the 280 lbs range riding, happily and for many years, on Mavic Open Pro rims. They are pretty much bullet-proof, but somehow the larger gentleman have gotten the idea that 150 lbs is the cut-off for skinny wheelsets. May I suggest a visit - and any other questions about weight limits - to:

http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?248-Clydesdales-Athenas-200-lb-91-kg

i was going to get a wheelset made with cxp33s but found out you can get dt swiss 1.2s cheaper. after talking to a few wheel builders i also learned that they are a better quality rim.

i agree about the competition spokes. i'm 175lbs and have a wheelset with revolutions and a set with compitions. both are 32h 3x. the revolutions defenitly look nice but the comps feel a little more substancial (the revolution set has a deeper profile rim to ofset the thinner spokes)

...Any advice / rim suggestions?

Mavic Open Sports. 470gms, double ferrules, thinner than the Mavic 319 600gm.

I want to build a wheelset that is extremely strong, but also able to take 700x23 tires safely.

I'm 180 lbs and will use the bike for commuting in philly. It needs to be fast for dodging cars but strong enough to plow through all of the disintegrating roads

I was thinking 36 spokes, 105 hubs, and velocity dyads... but I think the dyads might be too wide for what I'm going for.

Any advice / rim suggestions?

Short of making a wheel like this
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31FF2YZKGEL._SL500_AA216_.jpg

no bicycle wheel can be made that is indestructible. Even that one could be destroyed by a determined user;) They can be made durable but they should always be considered to be a consumable...like chains, cables, cassettes, bar tape, etc.

For durability, don't concentrate much on the rim. The rim is mostly along for the ride. The spokes do all the heavy lifting. Shorter spokes are better. The Dyad is a good choice that that reason. For truly strong spokes, use DT Alpine III. They are triple butted instead of double. The head/elbow is thicker (2.3mm instead of 2.0mm) so the most stressed part of the spoke is stronger. They also fit in the hub spoke holes tighter so there's less chance for movement which can fatigue the elbow. They are expensive and a little tough to find but they are worth the effort. I have a mountain bike wheel made with them that I built in 2001 or 2002 and it is still running strong...despite my best efforts to break it;)

Durability

I was also going to question the need for 23 tires. One of the best ways to protect a rim and spokes from road hazards is with more rubber and air volume.

On the other hand, a smaller contact patch covers less ground, and the smaller radius tends to spit stuff out the side a bit...

Rim damage is more likely with a smaller tyre, but whether punctures are depends on a few factors.

Since 60% of your weight is on the rear, that wheel is weaker thanks to dish, and it tends to cop more bangs, it makes sense to run the next largest size tyre and even a heavier rim on the back, IMO...

An 80kg bloke could prolly get away with a 425g AeroHead if it's 36h, on the front...

I built a rear for a 230 pounder who is a strong rider. I used a 105 hub, 36 15 gauge double butted DT spokes and a Mavic Open Sport rim. It has held up well and he is now around 180 pounds.

As already mentioned, I'd recommend a larger tyre, 25-26mm would be much, much better for shock-absorption and minimizing the loads that goes into the wheel (by using lower pressure).

wow, thanks everybody... great advice all around

I'll definitely be looking for these Alpine III spokes... and getting 32h x 36h wheels. I'll be thinking over the hubs and rim choices that have been mentioned... the dt swiss rims sound interesting

I realize the 23mm wheels seem dumb for riding on bumpy roads... a lot of it is just that I like the feel of narrow tires. I've gotten pretty good at riding with them on bad roads

i got my dt 1.2 rims from excel and couldnt be happier.

a 700x23 wont give you any problems other than a little rougher ride. like i said, i'm 175 and have used 700x21 tires.

I built a wheelset for a large rider who used to post on here using Velocity Deep V rims, Shimano XT hubs (because they're cheap, made of steel, and have disc brake mounts), and DT swiss straight 14g spokes.

At the time the rider weighed nearly 400lbs and reportedly rode them down a small flight of stairs. The wheels survived :D.

A spoked bicycle wheel has 4 components: hub, spokes, rim and build quality. Everything works together. You can't substitute one component for another - adding spokes won't necessarily result in a stronger wheel if the build quality is crap.

I built a wheelset for a large rider who used to post on here using Velocity Deep V rims, Shimano XT hubs (because they're cheap, made of steel, and have disc brake mounts), and DT swiss straight 14g spokes.

At the time the rider weighed nearly 400lbs and reportedly rode them down a small flight of stairs. The wheels survived :D.

How was he able to throw his leg over and get on a bike weighing 400lbs?

How was he able to throw his leg over and get on a bike weighing 400lbs?

If I recall correctly, he tried cycling to lose weight and did so. Some posters may remember him, though he hasn't been active in 2 years.

I ride Continental Gatorskins and they have offered me excellent puncture protection with minimal weight gain. I would suggest these tires for the OP as opposed to the Specialized Armadillos which are often recommended but weight almost twice as much.

I disagree on the gatorskins. I ride armadillos and have not had a single flat on a ride in a year and a half. I've watched several team mates have to change flats on gatorskins. There is all sorts of crap on the roads when commuting in town. My wife kept getting these tiny wires through her tires until she went to Armadillos.

Besides, more rotating weight means the OP will slim down faster.

At 225lbs, I also wanted a bombproof wheelset. I got Velocity Fusions 32h front, 36h rear from Universal Cycles (the local IBS her in Portland) Ultegra hubs, straight 14g 3X. Unfortunately, a missing water meter cap and a lazy team mate that didn't point it out left me with a hop I could never get out of the wheel. Nothing is indestructible.

Good luck.