Commuting - Riding studded tires during mostly wet not icy winters.

Here in the Seattle area where it usually rains but ice can come at anytime. I figure on leaving my studded tires (Schwalbe Marathon Winter) on until Springtime. Just like cars do.

My thinking for keeping them on is never knowing when ice will be present and avoiding :injured: if at all possible since falling on the ice a month ago and the bus doesn't run on Saturday.

If anything I accept riding a little slower over the 18 miles route each day. I'm running at 45 psi in the tires.

Any thoughts on this? :commute:

I always leave my studded tires on all winter. I never thought it was much of an option. It only takes a couple square feet of unexpected ice in the night to ruin your day (or more).

Besides, it makes it SO NICE in the spring when you put the road tires back on - in comparison to the studs you've been riding all winter it feels like riding a pat of butter across a hot skillet!

I don't know what size you've got, but unless it's really icy and snowy, 45 is probably too low. I run my 26 x 1.75 marathon winters at 70psi unless it's really snowy. Then, the lower pressure helps but why drag them around when you don't really need it? The higher pressure will easily handle the odd patch of ice.

I'm running studded tires on my cross bike during the winter. It seems like I never need them until the day I decide to take them off. They really slow me down unfortunately. I run mine @ 65psi, but they are 700 x 35mm.

I'm running 700 c 35 mm

I'm running 700 c 35 mm
I run the exact same tires. I lowered them to 35 psi for the snow; it helps with the grip. Before we got any serious snow I had them at 65 psi.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2646/4242698505_e55db9ceff.jpg

I don't know what size you've got, but unless it's really icy and snowy, 45 is probably too low. I run my 26 x 1.75 marathon winters at 70psi unless it's really snowy. Then, the lower pressure helps but why drag them around when you don't really need it? The higher pressure will easily handle the odd patch of ice.

Same here, but I have a well-tended route where ice and hard-packed snow without ruts are the usual treacherous conditions. I also leave them on all winter.

Off topic rely to irclean, post #6: Did you hear about the dyslexic devil-worshipper who sold his soul to Santa?

Here in the Seattle area where it usually rains but ice can come at anytime. I figure on leaving my studded tires (Schwalbe Marathon Winter) on until Springtime. Just like cars do.

Ice is pretty rare and predictable up here. Watch the weather reports and keep an eye on the temperature, because the roads won't ice up unless the temperature drops below freezing for a day.
I only throw the studs on my bike when I know there's the possibility for ice on the roads.

I was wondering the same thing today. I mounted studded a couple of weeks ago and I've kept them on ever since. I've noticed most commuters I've seen are off them now, but I've taken a few too many falls on ice that I'll keep them on for a couple more weeks at least. My concern is premature wearing of the studds from riding on 98% asphalt vs. snow/ice. So far, I haven't lost any studds and they all look to be in good shape.

I was wondering the same thing today. I mounted studded a couple of weeks ago and I've kept them on ever since. I've noticed most commuters I've seen are off them now, but I've taken a few too many falls on ice that I'll keep them on for a couple more weeks at least. My concern is premature wearing of the studds from riding on 98% asphalt vs. snow/ice. So far, I haven't lost any studds and they all look to be in good shape.

FYI, see this recent post on longevity of studs:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?610158-Longevity-of-studded-tires

That's what I have been doing. My Nokian Hakkapillitas are on their seventh season now and still doing fine.

Paul

I'm running the 700x35s at 70 psi as well in Vancouver (so same weather conditions as Seattle). I agree that they slow me down, but considering that I can stand on my pedals on black ice with these bad boys on, it's worth every penny not to suddenly slip and end up with a broken collarbone.

I'm on my 3rd season with the tires and they still look great, even though I've lost a few studs to quick stops. Plus, I still love watching people looking around trying to figure out what the ratatatatatatatatatat noise is while I pass them :).

Here in the Seattle area where it usually rains but ice can come at anytime. I figure on leaving my studded tires (Schwalbe Marathon Winter) on until Springtime.

That's what I'm doing although I'm mightily tempted to take them off now. Last year's black ice season ran way late. Maybe this year it's back to normal. I think of normal for Puget Sound as done by xmas. But my weekday schedule is fully booked, no time for tire changes, so if it does freeze, then I am kinked up if I have to change back (or drive).

I would pump up your pressure though, 700x35s I would run around 60psi for sure. I am right now running 700x32 studdeds at 55-60psi. 26" studs I'd run below 50.

I have a love/hate relationship with my studs (Marathon Winters). I love them when there's ice or compacted snow on the road, and hate them when the roads are clear. They add an extra 20 minutes to my 2 hour commute. I've taken them out on some long weekend rides on clear roads hoping to wear down the studs a little to reduce the rolling resistance, but the studs still look as fresh today as the day I put them on. I've also been tempted a few times to change them out with my normal tires, but I keep them on because, well, it's January and I know I still need them.

FYI, see this recent post on longevity of studs:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?610158-Longevity-of-studded-tires

Thanks JFB!

because the roads won't ice up unless the temperature drops below freezing for a day.

A couple of points about that.

First, it can, and does, freeze when the temperature gets below freezing at night. It doesn't have to get that low for a whole day. It can also freeze when it gets within a few degrees of freezing at location A, since microclimates can vary by a few degrees within a 1/2 mile of each other.

Also, black ice can form at around 35 F.

Secondly, it tends to get the coldest on the clear nights, which makes it so that the coldest temperatures occur in the hour after the sun comes up. For my current gig I wake up at 4:30 am, and I've checked the temperature then to have it around 38, only to watch it drop to 34 or 33 F by the time I would have left at around 6:30 am.

I do agree that ice is pretty predictable though. It just varies how much margin for error you want to give yourself, and I think the advantage of leaving studs on would be you just wouldn't have to think about it too much. I imagine studded tires are stiff and not exactly a five minute job to pop on.

Have gone round and round with this issue, but have held off buying studded tires because of the nature of my commute. Many drivers in the Seattle area are only marginally competent on ice to begin with. Sure, I could manage it on studs, but don't want to be riding in close proximity to cars on 30-40mph 2 lane arterials in those conditions!

In any case, will probably be moving closer to the city in the next year or 2 and then I'll be more inclined to give studs a try.

Have gone round and round with this issue, but have held off buying studded tires because of the nature of my commute. Many drivers in the Seattle area are only marginally competent on ice to begin with. Sure, I could manage it on studs, but don't want to be riding in close proximity to cars on 30-40mph 2 lane arterials in those conditions!

This is an excellent point and one I didn't fully consider before getting my studs. Sure, my bike is in a lot more control on hard snow or ice, but if I'm sharing the road with cars which are sliding all over the place, am I really better off? We recently got a lot of snow and I decided to take the train (multi-modal commute) because I didn't feel safe riding in traffic, even though the bike handled well. Without traffic (e.g. riding on a MUP), it would be a non-issue, but it's something to consider if your commute largely consists of riding on roads.

Cars here are fine on black ice that bikes can't handle. My wife wiped out on black ice a couple years ago (BAM) and a guy pulled over to get out of his car and check, and as soon as he got out of his car, BAM down he went. I got studded tires, she stopped riding <40F.

I got studded tires, she stopped riding <40F.

So who's smarter? ;)

So who's smarter? ;)

So it turns out that studded tires are not bombproof either...

My wife and I have this debate too. I think it's smart to find ways to adapt to adverse conditions, and she thinks it's smart to avoid them. She's probably right, but then again, she's missing all the fun. :)

I don't know if it's smart or even efficient but it's entertaining. Until I wind up in the ER...

The roads can freeze when the air temp is not down to freezing. Once the ground gets down close enough to freezing, radiative cooling when the sky is clear (surfaces emit infrared radiation into space) can cause freezing. This is why you can have frost on your car when it's like 38 degrees out.

Cars here are fine on black ice that bikes can't handle. My wife wiped out on black ice a couple years ago (BAM) and a guy pulled over to get out of his car and check, and as soon as he got out of his car, BAM down he went. I got studded tires, she stopped riding <40F.

I find that with studded tires, I can ride on surfaces that I wouldn't want to drive a car on, and have trouble walking on. I have yet to wipe out when my studs were mounted, but I've fallen after stopping and putting my feet on the ground, and I've watched cars spin out and into ditches on roads that I rode on just fine a few seconds later.

I had scheduled some recall maintenance on my car for today, so I threw the bike in and drove it to the dealership, and rode from there to work. I was NOT happy about driving today - it was freezing rain, and I didn't feel safe. I kept it down to 25-30 MPH the whole way (50 MPH roads, pretty much no traffic at 5AM). I would have been happier on the bike.

If you've been encountering the occasional patches of black ice here and there i'd keep them on. I guess also check the future weather reports. I didn't know black ice could form at some of the temperatures other posters have mentioned. Good information to have. Better safe than sorry.

I went down hard after hitting some black ice right before Christmas.

I bought a set of Nokian Hakkapeliittas and feel much safer. There's no way I would want to swap them out and guess day to day if there might be an icy patch or not. They'll come off in the spring!

Are we there yet???

Off topic rely to irclean, post #6: Did you hear about the dyslexic devil-worshipper who sold his soul to Santa?
Did you hear about the dyslexic lawyer?
He studied all year for the bra exam

What about the dyslexic pimp?
He bought a warehouse

But seriously folks...

To borrow a line or two from the oft-quoted Peter White page on studded tires (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp):

"The studs are embedded in relatively soft rubber, so when the stud contacts pavement, it sinks back down into the tread, and only slightly effects the contact pressure of the surrounding rubber for perhaps 1mm in radius, leaving well over 99% of the remaining tread with exactly the same contact with the pavement, but with infinitesimally higher pressure. On the softer ice, the carbide stud sinks, not back into the tire tread, but into the ice."

In other words, they are safe to use right through the winter season without worry of wear. In my area a little more rolling resistance is a small price to pay for the added peace of mind that they provide, YMMV. Besides - I will just fly when I mount my slicks in the spring! :D

cranked mine up to just over 80 lbs psi for tomorrow. temps in the teens and the road are dry. any snow is way over on the shoulder. I want speed aagain and saw some roadies today that made me jealous. Friday will be another story with snow expected

cranked mine up to just over 80 lbs psi for tomorrow. temps in the teens and the road are dry. any snow is way over on the shoulder. I want speed aagain and saw some roadies today that made me jealous. Friday will be another story with snow expected

Hi rr6,

I also think the streets of Boston are safe for road bikes. I'll pump up to my usual 110 psi and go for it. The bike paths though are still not roadworthy.

Did you hear about the dyslexic lawyer?
He studied all year for the bra exam

What about the dyslexic pimp?
He bought a warehouse

But seriously folks...

To borrow a line or two from the oft-quoted Peter White page on studded tires (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp):

"The studs are embedded in relatively soft rubber, so when the stud contacts pavement, it sinks back down into the tread, and only slightly effects the contact pressure of the surrounding rubber for perhaps 1mm in radius, leaving well over 99% of the remaining tread with exactly the same contact with the pavement, but with infinitesimally higher pressure. On the softer ice, the carbide stud sinks, not back into the tire tread, but into the ice."

In other words, they are safe to use right through the winter season without worry of wear. In my area a little more rolling resistance is a small price to pay for the added peace of mind that they provide, YMMV. Besides - I will just fly when I mount my slicks in the spring! :D

Hey irclean,

Good pots. :lol: :thumb:

decided not to ride today due to a minor sore throat and tiredness. disappointed cuz I was looking forward to riding on the hard tires - Jim if you ride on hard tires tell us how nice it was. you and I should get some snow tomorrow so i was thinking MAX pressure (85 for these) only if the flurries in the AM are wicked light, otherwise I'm bringing them back down to 70

decided not to ride today due to a minor sore throat and tiredness. disappointed cuz I was looking forward to riding on the hard tires - Jim if you ride on hard tires tell us how nice it was. you and I should get some snow tomorrow so i was thinking MAX pressure (85 for these) only if the flurries in the AM are wicked light, otherwise I'm bringing them back down to 70

Hi rr6,

Just got in. I rode my road bike with 23C tires and it felt good. On my route from Kenmore Square to Norwood there was minimal, easily visualized ice way towards the curbside. My biggest problem was that I left about 6:20 AM, 20 minutes later than usual and there was remarkably more traffic. So at a couple of rotaries while trying to hug the outside circumference I was closer to some ice than I liked to be. On the straight reads I still had pretty good clearance.

Jim's Law of the Road states that no matter how well-paved (or cleared) and lightly traveled the road is, you’re likely to be passed by a vehicle on the left as you encounter an obstacle on the right. It happened at least twice this morning. A car or bus passes me as I approach a rare, short ice patch. No danger, but it proves my point. :lol:

My lighting condition are mostly ambient city lighting with a Cateye Opticube for visibility but not much illumination. My safety goggles worked pretty well in the low 20's without any hazardous fogging so I was able to see the road surface well. One problem with the increased traffic is that I have to stop longer at intersections, so I have to re-arrange my face mask to prevent fogging. The increased daylight by starting later is of a slight benefit, but not worth the traffic hassles, IMO.

BTW, since about Tuesday, 12/29 and for about the next 6 or 7 days, I was off the bike with a low grade illness characterized by a slightly sore throat, slight achiness, and eventually a night time cough. It was not terrible, but did linger. I still have a slight cough, but riding feels good. In fact I probably was off the bike longer than necessary because I was on vacation and lacked the motivation of the commute. Best wishes for your recovery.

thanks I feel great right now and wish I rode in. I dislike commuting by car, it is so BORING! ugh. No thrill! No speed!

I believe your law of obstacles and passing vehicles is right on, absolutely.

I much prefer riding in darkness and having the lane to myself. I've been having fun with my MagicShine and I'll miss the darkness well light prevails on both AM & PM commutes. I still enjoy starting in darkness in the morning but by time at at the office at 7:00 or a little after it is quite bright. Luckily my road home is in complete darkness still, but I'm not alone at rush hour.

I fantasized about doing a favorite rail trail at night, 44 miles, just for fun. Now that I have studded touring tires and studded MTB tires a whole new world has opened up to me.

I always leave my studded tires on all winter. I never thought it was much of an option. It only takes a couple square feet of unexpected ice in the night to ruin your day (or more).

Besides, it makes it SO NICE in the spring when you put the road tires back on - in comparison to the studs you've been riding all winter it feels like riding a pat of butter across a hot skillet!

+1000 You only need to hit the pavement hard once due to having unexpected weather and the tires not being up to the task. I got close to damaging my elbo and shoulder three years ago when that happend. I was off the bike for a better part of 2 weeks. I consider myself VERY lucky that I didn't do any real damage to myself. Since then the snow tires go on at the 1st sign of sub freezing nights (mid to late October) and won't come off till Spring is here to stay. In Buffalo that can mean sometime in April (we tend to jump right from Winter into Summer).

Come spring I'll feel like a beast as my average commute speed will jump again my nearly 3 MPH after switching over to slicks for the Summer from my Noklia W106 winter tires.

Happy riding,
André

I would just ensure that you keep your inflation on the higher end of the scale during mild (non icy) weather, and then back off a little when the temps drop down to "frosty". The Marathon Winters are designed with no studs on the center rolling contact patch for this reason. At max pressure, you should be able to roll in a straight line without engaging the studs. Back off on the pressure just a bit, and the studs come into play.

I don't bother with studs in Seattle. Most of the time there is no chance of ice. On the days where there can be ice I slow down and ride carefully. Sure I take some chances with falls but studs do not come with a rubber on the road guarantee.