Folding Bikes - What folder brand to sell in a shop?

OK, so we are a Trek store in the northeast, a city on the ocean with moderate maritime activity.

There is a West Marine three storefronts down from us--they sell their own branded generic folding bikes, $250-$400, and offer Dahon bikes online or via special order. No plans to sell Dahon in the store; they would not consider us competitive with them because bike sales are such a small part of their business.

We tuned a couple of Montagues for one sailor, had a few people asking about folding bikes. Trek no longer makes one.

We thought we'd have a lot of high end sales, and Madone business has been pretty good, but like any other bike store, majority of sales is entry level mtn and hybrid bikes. Biggest market we'd be leaning on, however, are boat owners, who tend to have money.

I pitched folding bikes to my boss and he's interested. Here's my thoughts on what lines to consider selling, please correct me if I'm wrong. Basically, it would be a sideline, so limited quantity of one brand only is most realistic.

1) Dahon. Complete line of everything from basic to more feature-packed bikes, including lower end offerings, but also high end stuff.

2) Breezer. Basic folders, also other non-folders which don't compete in Trek mfgd categories.

3) Strida. Already had a customer asking for one of the Van Moof bikes. Limited fold on the Strida might not be small enough for target market. The new IF Mode would be a technologically interesting bike to lure people in.

4) Downtube. Do they even offer dealerships, or wholesale discounts?

5) Brompton. Excellent folding package, no real entry level options.

6) Pacific. A number of options--Birdy, Pacific IF, CarryMe--but none with more popular name recognition.

I know there are some shop owners/workers hanging around here--thoughts on what bikes to sell and any non-obvious reasons I may have missed?

Consumers--what would you most like to see in a shop... and what would you be most likely to purchase. I.e. I'd love to sell Bromptons, but not sure we'd sell as many $1k+ bikes as <$500 bikes.

I vote for Downtube or Dahons. They're the mid-market lines that would appeal most to your boat-owning, occasional riders. Downtubes offer the best value, IMHO. They have some dealerships.

Stridas, Bromptons and Pacific are too high-end and specialiazed for a general market.

Consumers--what would you most like to see in a shop... and what would you be most likely to purchase. I.e. I'd love to sell Bromptons, but not sure we'd sell as many $1k+ bikes as <$500 bikes.

Sales are immaterial: all that should matter to you is profit and long-term profit potential. The question you should be asking is: will you profit more from selling fewer $1K+ bikes than you will from selling more <$500 bikes?

You need to talk to your target market: boat owners. How much are they willing to spend on a folding bike for their boat? Or (since they don't really understand what's available) if they saw nice X folding bike, would it change their mind about what they should be getting? This is not a general market. It's people who are wealthy enough to own marine craft large enough, and which go far enough, that they'd want bikes on those craft. These people will pay money for good quality.

That being said, your other considerations should be: (1) who makes bikes that are corrosion-proof and (2) who makes bikes that can be easily repaired? Boats go places after all. And (3) how much time and resources do you want to invest in repairing the bikes you sell? I'm guessing #2 and #3 point to bikes that have standard parts.

In the low-end, Downtube is a good idea if you can get a dealership deal with them. At the top end you should be talking to Bike Friday, who and specialize in this area (packable and stowable), though the Tikit might be too big; you'll have to try one and decide. Brompton's probably out because of the investment involved in #2 and #3 (they don't have much of a distribution channel in the US yet), but you should consider them carefully. Strida's probably out for the same reason. Plus I am entirely unimpressed with the Strida. The only Pacific you should consider is the CarryMe. The IF is ridiculous and the Birdy is essentially unsupported in the US. I would avoid Breezer, Citizen, Bazooka, etc. And Dahon should definitely be high on your list for the mid-end.

I can't figure out why you'd pick just one brand. Why not, say, keep a couple of Dahons and a Bike Friday Tikit around?

Sales are immaterial: all that should matter to you is profit and long-term profit potential. The question you should be asking is: will you profit more from selling fewer $1K+ bikes than you will from selling more <$500 bikes?

Sales are not immaterial. They do provide profit and are hopefully the basis for future sales and the shop's repair business.

You need to talk to your target market: boat owners. How much are they willing to spend on a folding bike for their boat? Or (since they don't really understand what's available) if they saw nice X folding bike, would it change their mind about what they should be getting? This is not a general market. It's people who are wealthy enough to own marine craft large enough, and which go far enough, that they'd want bikes on those craft. These people will pay money for good quality.

Talking to some local boat owners might be a good idea, but you'd need to talk to quite a few owners to insure you had an accurate reflection of the potential market place. Not all boat owners are 'wealthy' - remember the definition of a boat: "A hole you throw money into." Also, many live on their boats as an economy move. The question is: What is the profile of the occupants in your local marina?

That being said, your other considerations should be: (1) who makes bikes that are corrosion-proof and (2) who makes bikes that can be easily repaired? Boats go places after all. And (3) how much time and resources do you want to invest in repairing the bikes you sell? I'm guessing #2 and #3 point to bikes that have standard parts.

Actually, RUST is the main problem. Bike racks at Marina near here is FULL of RUSTED bikes.Our BF chains are rusting and our bikes are stored in a finished garage. Dahon Mariner might be a good product - these folks are interested in boats, not bikes. The bikes are just to be an economical way to get around on land. A couple of years ago we saw a new Christensen Yacht being launched (yes, like Tiger's) with West Marine folders!

In the low-end, Downtube is a good idea if you can get a dealership deal with them. At the top end you should be talking to Bike Friday, who and specialize in this area (packable and stowable), though the Tikit might be too big; you'll have to try one and decide. Brompton's probably out because of the investment involved in #2 and #3 (they don't have much of a distribution channel in the US yet), but you should consider them carefully. Strida's probably out for the same reason. Plus I am entirely unimpressed with the Strida. The only Pacific you should consider is the CarryMe. The IF is ridiculous and the Birdy is essentially unsupported in the US. I would avoid Breezer, Citizen, Bazooka, etc. And Dahon should definitely be high on your list for the mid-end.

Dahon is likely your best bet, since it isn't available in West Marine stores. The Mariner also comes with fenders and a rack, which is a plus.

I can't figure out why you'd pick just one brand. Why not, say, keep a couple of Dahons and a Bike Friday Tikit around?

IMO, tikit and Brompton are too sophisticated for this market.

Lou

Xootr Swift might be a good choice to have in the store. Mid-level and not too many options to deal with.

Bike Fridays are mostly custom jobs. I believe that the way Bike Friday "dealers" work is that they keep a couple on hand available for people to try out. The dealer keeps track of who trys and if they buy then they get some $$.

Speedo

dont sell Dahons
I dont need any more competition ...............

lol ...

keep in mind that the boaters are usually cheapskates ( being one myself I can say that ) you need lower end bikes. And than for the more performance oriented sailors light weight is an absolute must. handing a bike over to the missus on the dock from the boat is difficult if there is too much weight involved. Small enough folded size is important to make them fit into the lazarettes or bunk seats. All bikes no matter what are a pile of junk if they are kept in the salt spray, no matter what. But alloy and stainless bits are usually better than steel. Make a deal with the Marina and have a loaner bike there free of charge with your advertising on it.

And again .....lol

Thor
( give Dahon a call and tell them I send ya )

I can't figure out why you'd pick just one brand. Why not, say, keep a couple of Dahons and a Bike Friday Tikit around?

Sheer simplicity of a single vendor and less $$$ tied up in various lines on the floor. We have "Trek" in all our literature, name of store, etc., so folders is never going to be a main specialty. (I say that now, but who knows...?)

"Boaters are cheapskates" is also our sense of the market, so lower end bikes are necessary. Having said that, I'm sure there will be those looking for higher end offerings.

So it's kinda:

Dahon for sheer range--downscale bikes, upscale bikes, and the Mu Uno which I really want to get at EP or certainly shop discount pricing. Or the new IOS. Might be territory issues with other shops in the area?

Downtube for bikes in styles and budgets to fit most likely customers, but no high end. Would certainly work for current plan of picking up cheap-o maritime customers.

Swift is definitely worth considering...

Thanks for the ideas.

If you think your target market is cheapskates -- and you certainly know it better than anyone else -- then I think Downtube may be your best bet, followed by Dahons. But your customers can buy Dahons through West Marine (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearchView?catalogId=10001&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&keyword=dahon&Ntt=dahon&N=377+710&y=0&x=0&storeId=10001&Ntk=Primary+Search&ddkey=SiteSearch) and it will be hard to beat those prices. I'd take a shot at Downtube. Though if you think you'll make money off of repairs and upgrades, it might make no difference.

And by "corrosion" I meant rust. Of course. :-)

And by "corrosion" I meant rust. Of course. :-)

feijai,

Actually, aluminum corrodes, while steel rusts, and finishes on wood deteriorate quickly. Near the ocean, plastic becomes your friend. Any plastic folders out there?...lol

Lou

While I love my new Brompton to death, and my Bike Friday's link me to an unbelievable company and community, I'd reluctantly recommend Dahon. After watching the rise of folding popularity in NYC... those easy cheap Dahon's are scooping the largest share. My main folder had till now been my Dahon Mariner, specifically aimed at the boating crowd with stainless chain, etc. And while I never want to ride it again now that I've been on my Brompton... it was a really easy, compact fine option for years for a crazily cheap price. So for range, price, appeal, I'm reluctantly voting Dahon.

For ur price range, I second downtube. Best bang for ur bux. Give Yan a called and see if you can work out a dealership with him. He is always looking to expand.

Dahon Mariner D7
Folding Bicycle Description

Designed specifically for boaters, the Mariner D7 makes your on-shore adventures a lot more fun and convenient. It stashes easily into even the tiniest of boat holds. But when you arrive at a port of call it unfolds in seconds to help you explore or shop for supplies. The perfect accessory for your boat. *Note: While rust resistant, the Mariner is not rust proof. Proper maintenance is required to minimize corrosion.

http://www.dahon.com/us/marinerd7.htm

=============

Dahon is always a safe bet. They have such a varied line that you can find something specific for your customer. Both the upper end bikes (over $1K) and the lower end bikes (lowest is the Eco 3 for about $300 or the Dahon DLT Boardwalk for $200 +/- ). The Mariner runs about $550, give or take.

I am a boater too:o

My first thought was Dahon, you have almost instant brand recognition amongst the boating crowd. I also agree that many boaters are thrifty (cheap). Quite often the decision to buy a folder (from a boaters point of view) is a decision that has been weighed, but will be acted quickly on when they hit shore and have to walk that second mile. Having some less expensive model folders on hand with bags to haul groceries as a package deal will probably grab their attention. Putting a loaner bike at the marina might work. I know a couple of the marinas that I frequent have loaner bikes, usually I have to fix it before I can use it.:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

I agree with the general consensus. Dahon and Downtube will give best bang for the buck. I would add Citizen to that mix, but I don't think Citizen has a dealer network... and I think that between Downtube and Dahon you will cover all your bases.

Other makes that might prove interesting to the boating crowd...

Abio... belt drive means no metal chain to get rusted, might be something boaters might appreciate.
Strida... again belt drive means no metal chain to get rusted. Folded package may fit better in some spaces.
Swift... for the boater that really wants something very close to a full-sized bike feel, and has more storage space
Bike Friday... the ultimate in custom fit folding bikes, but the folded size will require more storage space
Pacific Carryme... folded package like the Strida. smaller wheels and lower price.

Good luck!
--sam

If you think your target market is cheapskates -- and you certainly know it better than anyone else -- then I think Downtube may be your best bet, followed by Dahons. But your customers can buy Dahons through West Marine (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearchView?catalogId=10001&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&keyword=dahon&Ntt=dahon&N=377+710&y=0&x=0&storeId=10001&Ntk=Primary+Search&ddkey=SiteSearch) and it will be hard to beat those prices. I'd take a shot at Downtube. Though if you think you'll make money off of repairs and upgrades, it might make no difference.

And by "corrosion" I meant rust. Of course. :-)

West ( Worst) Marine is no longer selling Dahons, they sell their "own" bike which closely resembles a first generation Downtube. ( nothing wrong with that )

West ( Worst) Marine is no longer selling Dahons, they sell their "own" bike which closely resembles a first generation Downtube. ( nothing wrong with that )

My feeling exactly - the Port Runner bikes look similar to Downtube bikes - same manufacturer?

West Marine's website features 2 - Port Runners, 3 - Dahons as well as 3 - Montagues. From the low prices on the Dahons, it appears that they are likely selling out their remaining inventory. (The Mariner is currently priced at $347. way below other sites - Thor is $549 for instance.)

Lou

you never know what mariner you get from WestMarine they do sell some old blue steel ones from a couple years back here and there as well. if you can get a 08Mariner for that pricer, make sure its fixed. ( your local dealer will do it but ithey will most likely say, go where you bought it first .... some way I can understand them as well ) Its a super good deal though as the new alloy MAriner s a nice bike indeed.

Thanks Thor

I added Abio bikes to the list. Chainless design is worth considering.

Boss is interested in the Swift because they also do the scooter. Price point on the bike is not quite where I think we need to be.

Dahon and Downtube are also still in the running.

Emailed all today. One reply so far...

Seems to me the Abio is aimed squarely at the boating market, with the belt drive. No maintenance, no grease etc.

Perhaps you could persuade the Abio wholesaler to produce a version that uses stainless bolts everywhere, and uses stainless cables.

Alternatively/additionally, with each bike, include a spray can of Boeshield T-9 which is excellent rustproofing. Would work equally well for any exposed bits on the frame.

My feeling exactly - the Port Runner bikes look similar Downtube bikes - same manufacturer?

West Marine's website features 2 - Port Runners, 3 - Dahons as well as 3 - Montagues. From the low prices on the Dahon's, it appears that they are likely selling out their remaining inventory. (The Mariner is currently priced at $347. way below other sites - Thor is $549 for instance.)

LouWhen I first got interested in folding bikes, a friend lent me his West Marine Port Runner for a few days, and offered to sell it to me. Not a bad bike. Geared a bit low, but then so was the Citizen Tokyo that I eventually bought, until I upgraded the gears. I would have bought the Port Runner, but it didn't fit into the closet where my Toyko lives today.

FWIW, several times a year I get asked about the Moulton by some boater passing through the islands. Now, we get pretty high end boats here - after all the boat has to be capable of 2,400 miles of open ocean to get here in the first place. The only other Moulton I've run into on the island was a visiting boater. The stainless steel Moultons are very appealing to this crowd. The new series does disassemble into a very small package that should also appeal to boaters.

FWIW, several times a year I get asked about the Moulton by some boater passing through the islands. Now, we get pretty high end boats here - after all the boat has to be capable of 2,400 miles of open ocean to get here in the first place. The only other Moulton I've run into on the island was a visiting boater. The stainless steel Moultons are very appealing to this crowd. The new series does disassemble into a very small package that should also appeal to boaters.

FWIW, Moulton New Series range from $10,000 to $15,000. :rolleyes:

FWIW, Moulton New Series range from $10,000 to $15,000. :rolleyes:

Holy crap:eek:...that is more than my entire bike collection, camper and boat are worth...together!:o

Aaron:)

when I was touring France, by road, on my Dahon, we stayed in a lot of yachting Marina type places. Amazed by the range of folders; there seemed to be a low end - high end split 70 - 30. High end was all Bromptons - there are some yachties who will buy the best come what may; maybe in N America you could swap brompton for bike friday, though the fold is not as smaill.. Low end a range of Dahons, stridas, and whatevers. Downtubes are not widely available in Europe so wouldn't expect to see them, though I have had two, and they are good value for money (but not "great bikes" imho).

IMHO I would have gone for a downtube/brompton combo; but downtube are not now doing the 16" wheel mini, and that would have been the ideal boat bike. So Abio might be an interesting entry level bet, with the chain free drive options a good feature. Swift is a great bike, but the fold is not great at all. However, you could also stock a sideline in their kick scooters, one of which I have, which seem very boatable.

What I would ask was do you only sell new bikes? Because if I had renovation and repair capacity, and was looking to establish that side of my business, I might buy a few used folders of any brand for stock - ebay, craigslist - which I could upgrade, and then sell, but also send out the message whatever brand your folder is we can make it better.

also would add if you are prepared to go Dahon they cover the waterfront across the range, and from a consumers pov great company great bikes...

Montague Paratrooper. I almost bought that as my first/only bike.