Bicycle Mechanics - buy tools vs LBS service - headsets

i'm getting a new frame that uses a CK press-in headset; i have another fork replacement project too

i've been paying LBS for headset on/off service; any thoughts about buying a Park headset press and crown race setter? about $210 investment vs paying LBS; if use them for 10-15 years and then sell them maybe i'll break even? press in headsets are getting more rare, yes? so maybe i wouldn't use it all that often? maybe if i have the tools i'll seek out frames that use press in headsets - funny how that might happen

anybody else gone through this buy tool vs use LBS question that can offer direction?

are there such things as too coops?

tx

How much does the LBS charge? How many times would you need to use the tool to pay for it?

Do the math.

I've pressed CK cups using my $5 homemade press. No special CK bushings required to press these cups.

I've been using this homemade press for over 15 years now:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/jojisan/HeadsetPress.jpg

You can build a home press from Home Depot parts or buy one on eBay for $30, it has properly sized/machined washers/bushings that fit properly so the headset cups don't skew during pressing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260411392035

It works just fine, you just need big adjustable wrench to use it as it doesn't have it's own levers.

Headset crown removal tool:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250490071602

Headset crown setting tool, essentially a PVC pipe and a metal ring:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260387603229

I bought these above tools and used them on my first build with great results. The above are closed actions so just check out the sellers items or click the "Buy Another" button.

He also has a cheap headset removal tool.

Adam

I've pressed CK cups using my $5 homemade press. No special CK bushings required to press these cups.

+1. I've used a large bolt, washers, and nut as a press to install this CK headset on three different mountain bikes (the headset outlasted the bikes).

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp226/wellbiked/ImportedPhotos00041.jpg

It's a CK headset. It deserves to be put in with the correct tool, or your ownership of that item should be revoked.

Come on now operator, using ghetto tools with nice components runs its own risk, if someone chooses to press a CK headset with a homemade press they should do it, I saw someone ruin a frame using a homemade press, works most of the time though, but the cost of replacing the frame was ~= to how much a real press would cost.

i've got the homemade press; used it on a cane creek headset; worked

my first CK headset was installed by the LBS; i've probably spent $50 on headset work at LBS so far

for the race setter, i went to the grand-hardware-box looking for the pipe that would fit closely over a 1-1/8 steer tube; no luck or too stupid

the new ck headset is going into a Ti frame; so taking risks is out; it's either a Park press or the LBS on this job; was even thinking about getting the CK adapters for the Park tool

re. doing the math, i'll need a crystal ball; i was hoping such a thing was to be found here

after reading the replies, i'm leaning 90-10 in favor of buying the tools:

- i'll have the tools available
- each time i use them the cost per procedure will decline
- i have no investment alternatives for the money
- i can be an alpha tool collector and win admiration of peers
- Park tools should have pretty good resale value
- i'll check the usual secondary mkts (ebay/craigslist) and maybe get a price break

Headset crown removal tool:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250490071602


i think that's the finest crown race remover i've ever seen; i'm in for that

the new ck headset is going into a Ti frame; so taking risks is out; it's either a Park press or the LBS on this job; was even thinking about getting the CK adapters for the Park tool


I did not see any difference installing headsets in steel, alu, or ti frames using the homemade press. A little abuse (if any) shouldn't affect the bomb-proof CK headset when using a homemade press.

i think that's the finest crown race remover i've ever seen; i'm in for thatI'll agree to that.

+1 I have used that ebay headset cup setting tool referenced above. I have used it on about 100 bikes so far. I also bought one of his cup removal tools and his derailleur hanger tool.:thumb::thumb:

I'll be buying one of his crown race removal tools next (in fact, I just ordered one).

I did not see any difference installing headsets in steel, alu, or ti frames using the homemade press. A little abuse (if any) shouldn't affect the bomb-proof CK headset when using a homemade press.

you've probably done the procedure dozens of times but with my homemade press and my experience (1 time) there is some risk; i was sure of myself and my homemade press with a $100 steel frame and $50 can creek h/s; with a new Ti frame and CK h/s I loose my confidence

The above are closed actions so just check out the sellers items or click the "Buy Another" button.

Adam

Only you get the "buyer's view".

Only you get the "buyer's view".

These links are the same that you get from entering the number into the search field on eBay. They should work, I've just tried them in another web browser that I never used to login to eBay and they worked. If they still don't work for you then copy the item number at the end of the link and paste it into the search box on eBay.


i think that's the finest crown race remover i've ever seen; i'm in for that

I believe this tool is made for something else and it has its own name but it just happens to work fine as headset crown remover. You just need to be careful not to tighten the bolts too much or you may damage the steerer tube.

Adam

+1 I have used that ebay headset cup setting tool referenced above. I have used it on about 100 bikes so far. I also bought one of his cup removal tools and his derailleur hanger tool.:thumb::thumb:

I'll be buying one of his crown race removal tools next (in fact, I just ordered one).

Yup. I bought few more tools from him. I only referenced those related to this thread. He has lots of specialized bike tools at low prices and he's a friendly and responsive seller too.

A.

i've got the homemade press; used it on a cane creek headset; worked

my first CK headset was installed by the LBS; i've probably spent $50 on headset work at LBS so far

for the race setter, i went to the grand-hardware-box looking for the pipe that would fit closely over a 1-1/8 steer tube; no luck or too stupid

the new ck headset is going into a Ti frame; so taking risks is out; it's either a Park press or the LBS on this job; was even thinking about getting the CK adapters for the Park tool

re. doing the math, i'll need a crystal ball; i was hoping such a thing was to be found here

after reading the replies, i'm leaning 90-10 in favor of buying the tools:

- i'll have the tools available
- each time i use them the cost per procedure will decline
- i have no investment alternatives for the money
- i can be an alpha tool collector and win admiration of peers
- Park tools should have pretty good resale value
- i'll check the usual secondary mkts (ebay/craigslist) and maybe get a price break

You're definitely going to get a +1 from most of the people here in favor of using your own headset tools. I don't think you can go wrong on Park Tools as far as them keeping their value, especially on the more expensive items. I just bought the Park fork crown setter from Treefort bikes at a decent price (~60 I think). I previously bought a Cyclus Czech made headset press from ebay seller Banana Brain (I think their ebay store is under a different name now, I'm not sure why and they no longer seem to carry the Cyclus line). I bought the Nashbar fork crown remover on sale but have yet to use it. I'm speaking as a motivated amateur who is a bit timid to do the installations I am planning. I plan to start on my daughter's Schwinn mountain bike by installing a new 1-1/8 threaded Deore XT cartridge bearing headset. Then I plan to install a Stronglight 1" threaded needle bearing headset on my Puch Marco Polo in place of the classic Nuovo Record one that is on there (I've heard roller bearing headsets are a little less skittish and can neutralize a shimmy problem which this bike has). A successful install will not only cement your alpha male (or female which ever the case may be :D) & DIY inventiveness genes; but I think you'll also get a type of knowledge of your steed that entrusting this important task to your LBS wouldn't afford. Purchasing the Chris King bushing sounds like a good idea as well. I would think that having a working knowledge of some of the dimensions of the fork crown, the head tube I.D., the stack height, and so forth are all pluses. If you are like me, you might encounter an aberration or two. You might find the fork crown too tight for your crown race (or too loose), you might find out your head tube is not parallel and wind up back at the LBS spending more money on getting the headtube faced and reamed. I suspect after completing phase 1 of this learning curve, you might be on the prowl next for a full set of crown race cutters, head tube facers and reamers.

I didn't find any cheap alternatives to cutters and facers and those tools are expensive :eek:

Adam

I've pressed CK cups using my $5 homemade press. No special CK bushings required to press these cups.

I've been using this homemade press for over 15 years now:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c362/jojisan/HeadsetPress.jpg
I have used this fine tool and it does a good job. Fiber washers would protect the finish.
For a crown press you can use a 1&1/4" extension tube for sink drains found in the plumbing dept of a hardware store.
Removing the crown race can be dicey. I use a small screwdriver to start and then fox wedges to finish.

you've probably done the procedure dozens of times but with my homemade press and my experience (1 time) there is some risk; i was sure of myself and my homemade press with a $100 steel frame and $50 can creek h/s; with a new Ti frame and CK h/s I loose my confidence

I've asked the guys at the LBS to let me see the Park press tool. It works exactly as the $30 one from eBay does. The bushing goes into the cup to keep it centered and leveled. I could not justify spending $150 on the Park tool. I think the only major difference is that the Park tool can accommodate few more, rare sizes. The cheaper Park tool ($70) doesn't have the bushings, just flat washers so it'd be easy to mess up the headtube and cups with it.

For the price of one Park tool I got a cup press, a headset remover, a crown race remover, a crown race setter and few other tools. I would not be able to buy the same tools from Park.

Adam

I like the Cyclus headset-press:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=180244260661&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Headset&tc=Press-Sets&item_id=CU-HP

But the Park Tool model has other functions, such as installing fixed-cups for one-piece cranksets - Ashtabula:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=180244260661&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Headset&tc=Press-Sets&item_id=PA-HHP2

These links are the same that you get from entering the number into the search field on eBay. They should work, I've just tried them in another web browser that I never used to login to eBay and they worked. If they still don't work for you then copy the item number at the end of the link and paste it into the search box on eBay.

Adam

They work just fine for me. I didn't say they didn't. I'm telling you that they don't link to closed auctions for anyone but you because only you get the "buyer view".

I built up a Tom Kellogg Spectrum Ti from scratch last Spring, my first frame-up build. I wasn't real happy about buying the Park Press and Crown Race Setting tool, not to mention the expensive CK bottom bracket tools and Headset setting adapters. In the end, they are great tools that you will enjoy using and owning. The downside is my friends are always asking to borrow them. I'm getting tired of weighing down my pannier with the headset press especially;-)

They work just fine for me. I didn't say they didn't. I'm telling you that they don't link to closed auctions for anyone but you because only you get the "buyer view".

Ah, OK :)

Adam

For what it costs and how many times I have to do it, I used to just pay the LBS to do it. Didn't want to mess up my frame, didn't want to make a trip to the Despot (actually have a length of 1" threaded rod w/ washers and nuts that would have worked fine). Also wanted to have the headtube faced (came covered with paint), BB chased and faced at the same time, and there's no cheap cutting tools out there. Aside from a hand file... and while I'm sure skilled machinists could keep things level and square, hand-filing the HT and BB just to knock off the paint, I didn't trust my skills.

I bought the headset through the shop, installation was cheap; no headset issues with the bike, no fretting about getting something unfamiliar to me done right.

Of course now I work in a shop with full access to all the Park tools. That's another way to do it...

You can build a home press from Home Depot parts or buy one on eBay for $30, it has properly sized/machined washers/bushings that fit properly so the headset cups don't skew during pressing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260411392035

It works just fine, you just need big adjustable wrench to use it as it doesn't have it's own levers.

Headset crown removal tool:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250490071602

Headset crown setting tool, essentially a PVC pipe and a metal ring:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260387603229

I bought these above tools and used them on my first build with great results. The above are closed actions so just check out the sellers items or click the "Buy Another" button.

He also has a cheap headset removal tool.

Adam

I am definitly getting one of the presses. the washers and bushings alone are worth the $30. I would however make some modifications. I am sure you could get a wrlding shop to put T handle on it real cheap.

the crown race setter I am not sure about. I would have to see it but I really think you need the weight of a metal one. at one of the shops I worked at we had 1 1/2 steel pipe with half a union on it. we used it with an old crownrace upsidedown to set the new crownrace.

I believe this tool is made for something else and it has its own name but it just happens to work fine as headset crown remover. You just need to be careful not to tighten the bolts too much or you may damage the steerer tube.

Adam

It's called a bearing splitter. You can buy a really, really cheap one from Harbor Freight. You don't even need to tighten it that much to get the race off. The easiest way to use it is to tighten it so that it is just engaged under the edges of the race and then whack it with a hammer...more a tap really;) The race will pop right off.

Shop smart and you can save some money: I bought a full set of headset and crown race removal/install tools (mostly used Park but some from the fellow mentioned above, +1 on quality and service) for under $200. Have already used them on 5 or 6 frames and work perfectly. Plus I know that I'm taking the time to do things right instead of relying on someone else's expertise and attention to detail.

Now if only I could find a less expensive alternative to the Park facing/reaming/chasing tools...

the crown race setter I am not sure about. I would have to see it but I really think you need the weight of a metal one. at one of the shops I worked at we had 1 1/2 steel pipe with half a union on it. we used it with an old crownrace upsidedown to set the new crownrace.

It works fine, it took three strikes with a mallet. Whether it's metal or PVC doesn't really matter, as long as it's rigid enough, doesn't need to be heavy. However, he sells the ring itself so you can supply your own piece of pipe if you'd like.

Adam

My crown race setter is 3 1/2 feet long and plastic. I hit it on the concrete floor and let the weight of the fork drive the race on.

It's called a bearing splitter. You can buy a really, really cheap one from Harbor Freight. You don't even need to tighten it that much to get the race off. The easiest way to use it is to tighten it so that it is just engaged under the edges of the race and then whack it with a hammer...more a tap really;) The race will pop right off.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3979

That is all it is. I've used them numerous times when working industrial maintenance. You can but the expensive ones too from Grainger or Snap-on but they do the same job as the Harbor Freight one except they are more pretty.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3979

That is all it is. I've used them numerous times when working industrial maintenance. You can but the expensive ones too from Grainger or Snap-on but they do the same job as the Harbor Freight one except they are more pretty.

I have a cheap version and an more expensive one. The cheap one is rather blunt and poorly made. I had to grind it a little so that it would engage the fork crown better. The more expensive version didn't need that kind of modification.

For the record, I have used the obscenely expensive crownrace setter from Park... and there was still ample possibility to screw up; I did in fact mangle an expendable headset. The shop owner for whom I do volunteer work PROBABLY should keep better track of his several thousand bucks worth of tools, but that's his chili.
The possibility for error lies as much, if not more, in the ignorance of the user than it does in the quality of the tool.

My tools have payed for themselves in beer! lol

This will horrify you: I recently built a bike for myself, around a Surly Cross Check frame. I just used a hammer and some blocks of wood to pound my headset in. I can't honestly recommend this technique, but it worked.

This will horrify you: I recently built a bike for myself, around a Surly Cross Check frame. I just used a hammer and some blocks of wood to pound my headset in. I can't honestly recommend this technique, but it worked.

I would and i've done it before as well.

Steel frame? Check
Know what you're doing? Check
No access to shop tools? Check

Wow, I got a thumbs up from operator. I am honored. Seriously. But you're right. I knew what I was doing, mostly. I do have a bike repair stand, so I positioned the head tube right over my workbench. The bottom of the head tube rested on the workbench, and I banged the top cup in with the block of wood and hammer. Flipped the frame and repeated.

Next time, I think I'll build a headset press.

A headset-press is the much preferred way to fly. Slow & even pressure, rather than pounding rubber-mallet~block of wood. I have both the Park and the Cyclus. If you'd be working on Ashtabula cranks-BB's, the Park is the way to go as it has a larger flange to press in the fixed-cups. Building one? Factor in this with your home-brew tool.

Going to buy one? Never go near a 3-spd? Cyclus hand's down.

(As soon as you pull the trigger - a beautiful 3spd. with Ashtabula's will crash through your roof.)