Touring - Panniers vs. trailer for a very lightweight rider

OK, the words written on trailers vs. panniers could completely circumnavigate the Earth, but I have a slightly different angle on it that I haven't seen addressed here:

I'm a small guy (5'3", 105 lbs., 48kg) so changes in weight distribution on my bikes really make a difference in their handling. Given a typical touring load (say, 20-50lbs?) would I be better off hauling it on the bike or on a trailer? I have some experience with panniers, none whatsoever with a trailer. Thanks for your opinions!

Panniers for me. I had 28 flats last year. No need to have more tires on the road.

I'm not sure your size matters. You sound like my wife and she uses panniers. I weigh over 220 (not being coy no scale at home) I still work on keeping my load light. All my regular gear, like clothing, tent sleeping bag, come in at less than 10 pounds. Add to that any gear to keep the bike on the road, and the big variable, food and water. Keep the weight down (doesn't have to be expensive), and you will have no worries about how you carry it. As far as that goes, the rack and panniers are in the same ballpark as the trailer and bags. The big variable against the trailer is the rolling resistance of the wheel. The way I break it down is that it varies as to capacity (mostly the size) of stuff being carried. I would use rear panniers; then rear and front; then trailer alone; then trailer and front paniers; then trailer and all 4 panniers. But so far I can get by with panniers alone.

OK, the words written on this topic could completely circumnavigate the Earth, but I have a slightly different angle on it that I haven't seen addressed here:

I'm a small guy (5'3", 105 lbs., 48kg) so changes in weight distribution on my bikes really make a difference in their handling. Given a typical touring load (say, 20-50lbs?) would I be better off hauling it on the bike or on a trailer? I have some experience with panniers, none whatsoever with a trailer. Thanks for your opinions!

Both have advantages, but panniers win out in my opinion. One big thing to me is the hassle of shipping the trailer to or from your tour.

Also it is usually possible to go a good bit lighter with panniers. It isn't a slam dunk though because some panniers and racks are pretty heavy. Also the bike can be lighter if you don't need to carry the load on it.

If I didn't have a touring bike and I wanted to tour for the least amount of money.. I'd go trailer. This would be if I already had a bike that would work with decent gearing for touring.

If I didn't have a bike already I would go panniers.... everytime.

This coming from somone who has both and has used both. YMMV

I have personal experience with this - trailers are bad for small people.

I'm about the same size as you. My first tour I started with a BOB trailer on a rigid titanium mountain bike that fit me very well.

My trailer tried to kill me. Whenever it was a little on the heavy side, it would get a very bad slow-oscillation at moderate speeds - not a shimmy, but more of a swerve. One day, I had a lot of extra weight in it, because we had 80 miles with no water source. In the morning, I kept getting the swerve, but managed to keep it controlled by braking and gripping the top tube with my knees.

In the afternoon, I was descending a long, very moderate grade hill, maybe 2 or 3% downhill. I let the speed get a little higher - maybe 25mph (yes you should be able to go more than 25) - and the swerve came back. I couldn't control it, and I high-sided, crashed, and was pretty badly hurt.

Anyway, later, I heard lots of stories of people who had trouble with their trailers, mostly smaller people, and mostly with heavily loaded trailers. I'm not an engineer and don't pretend to be, but have had several people tell me that the weight ratio between the rider and the trailer is an important factor in handling, and it's bad when the bike/person is light and the trailer/load is heavy.

Since then I switched to panniers on a tour bike, and am very happy with that setup - it handles like a bike only just heavier.

I wish I had more evidence than this one anecdote, but would advise you that if you do try a trailer, pay very close attention to the load balance, don't exceed the weight or speed limit, and if it feels wrong, it IS, so don't ignore it like i did.

Quick answer: I've toured with both and prefer panniers. I don't know what effect your size would have (I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum,) but I would think your gear might weigh a tiny bit less than mine if you buy stuff to match your size. My sleeping bag is extra long, my clothes are extra large, my tent is longer than most people would need, etc. However, my stove probably weighs the same as yours; my tools, my cookware, my book, etc.

My Bob is acceptable and I'd use it again if I had a reason, but all things considered, I prefer panniers.

I`m a lighter, medium-sized guy. I've used both, but after 2 tours with a trailer, i gave it away and have always used panniers only since.

Because of the handling and extra weight, i could only recommend a trailer if you had to have more gear than you could fit otherwise; say if you were a professional photagrapher and just had to have 30 pounds or so of photo gear in addition to 4-season outdoor gear and a week's worth of food.

Thanks for the replies so far. Valygrl, your post is exactly what I was looking for. I have had thoughts that trailers might prove more difficult, if heavily loaded, for smaller/lighter folks, but wanted to hear some real world evidence. Have any other small riders experienced similar difficulties with trailers?


I have personal experience with this - trailers are bad for small people.

I'm about the same size as you. My first tour I started with a BOB trailer on a rigid titanium mountain bike that fit me very well.

My trailer tried to kill me. Whenever it was a little on the heavy side, it would get a very bad slow-oscillation at moderate speeds - not a shimmy, but more of a swerve. One day, I had a lot of extra weight in it, because we had 80 miles with no water source. In the morning, I kept getting the swerve, but managed to keep it controlled by braking and gripping the top tube with my knees.

Since then I switched to panniers on a tour bike, and am very happy with that setup - it handles like a bike only just heavier.

I wish I had more evidence than this one anecdote, but would advise you that if you do try a trailer, pay very close attention to the load balance, don't exceed the weight or speed limit, and if it feels wrong, it IS, so don't ignore it like i did.

I have personal experience with this - trailers are bad for small people.

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that makes sense, just like a small car or pickup towing too heavy of a trailer, the tail wags the tower.

OK, the words written on trailers vs. panniers could completely circumnavigate the Earth, but I have a slightly different angle on it that I haven't seen addressed here:

I'm a small guy (5'3", 105 lbs., 48kg) so changes in weight distribution on my bikes really make a difference in their handling. Given a typical touring load (say, 20-50lbs?) would I be better off hauling it on the bike or on a trailer? I have some experience with panniers, none whatsoever with a trailer. Thanks for your opinions!
Panniers.

I've tried trailers (I'm fairly light -- typically about 128) and don't like them. Try going down a fast downhill run with some rough asphalt or bumps on it. The trailer will fly all over the place. Same road with good panniers on a stable bike: zero problems. Very stable.

For me panniers win hands down.

It takes a little time (depending on the person, but typically within a few hours or days) for you to feel more at ease riding a loaded touring bike. After a while it becomes second nature. Keep the loads reasonably low, inside, and balanced, and on stable racks, and you'll be fine.

I've heard of people having the same problem with trailers when they were large. Seems to be a design issue. My wife weighs under 100# at one point our (then) two kids were near the child trailer limit of 100# about 60/40. Never had a problem. Even if one did have a problem, one could solve it by using the trailer for the super bulky stuff, loading light, or mounting bakes. But I still agree with the idea of panniers.

I used a carbon road bike and Yak for my first couple of years of touring, but then bought a touring bike and set of panniers. I had no issues with the trailer apart from the occasional flat, but I just prefer panniers with no articulable objective reason why.....

panniers, i would think a person would be tempted to carry too much while using a trailer. then again ive never used a trailer and am easily tempted to take things i dont realy need.

panniers, i would think a person would be tempted to carry too much while using a trailer. then again ive never used a trailer and am easily tempted to take things i dont realy need.


Ditto!


I have never used one but trailers seem a pain to me. On my tours to Italy, I used trains as a part of the tour. Sometimes you have just minutes to get on the train. I think it would be difficult having to load the bike and the the trailer.

I just simply loaded the whole rig on the train. But then again I am 6'1" 190 lbs. I would imagine a smaller person might need to off load their bags anyway, but it still seems to be easier. Take your bags off and you have 1 light item and two small and fairly heavy items as opposed to one light and bulky item and 1 heavy and bulky item.

I prefer panniers and have never considered a trailer (extra hassle, extra width, extra length, nuisance on ferries). BTW, I'm 5'2" and 105lb.

This has been a very useful thread. Ought to be read by anyone considering a trailer. I'll add that to my 'fiddle factor' list, to be avoided. Already contains anything electronic, except a cp.

It is very important to keep the bike balanced. Often it's recommended to load 60% of your touring load in front panniers and 40% in the rear. With a smallish load this can easily be done with front panniers and a large saddlebag or rack pack. Larger riders like myself like to do this to help move some weight off of the already stressed rear wheel, but a smaller rider may wish to do this because they would likely not have enough weight forward and may unload the front wheel with a rear biased load.

It is very important to keep the bike balanced.
Why?

I'm a small rider who prefers rear panniers only (although I also use a handlebar bag) and balance has been a non-issue for me. If I'm not having problems, why should I mess with a 2nd pair of panniers and an additional rack?

valygrl, thanks for sharing your interesting trailer story. It makes me wonder whether shimmying is more likely to be a problem for smaller riders? I suspect not, but I wonder about it now.

Good thread so far. I'm an engineer who has designed and fabricated their own trailer and Vlygrl's advice seems spot on. When the rider is a lightweight, proportionally more of the total weight is in the trailer and this can lead to further decreased stability on downhills.

Axolotl, shimmying IS more likely to be a problem for smaller riders. Also, weight distribution becomes more important the heavier your gear gets relative to your weight but it is still possible for a lightweight rider to use only rear panniers and be stable. There are many other influences, but rider weight does have an effect.

This is all due to decreased damping and the relationship between the centers of resistance and mass. I know this isn't much of an explanation and I'll go into more detail if someone is interested.

In my experience, there is no need to worry too much about balancing the weight of the left and right rear panniers. But if you have a lot of weight up front, an imbalance would seem to possibly aggravate any tendency to shimmy. If one doesn't have problems, then one doesn't have problems.

rnorris, just to stir the pot a bit more, I think I'll mention that changing the amount or distribution of what you carry will affect your handling the LEAST if you use a trailer instead of panniers. This is what you originally inquired about, but the discussion was sidetracked by some of the other issues with trailers.

...This is all due to decreased damping and the relationship between the centers of resistance and mass. I know this isn't much of an explanation and I'll go into more detail if someone is interested.
Yes, it would be very interesting to hear more about centers of resistance and mass, and any other related issues.

Yes, it would be very interesting to hear more about centers of resistance and mass, and any other related issues.

+2 I would love to hear more explanation. Especially if any of it lends itself to advice about how to deal with a trailer if one MUST use one (like MTB touring).

Thanks!

I'm somewhat surprised at the degree of agreement in this thread so far. I've used both methods and agree with the others here that I find panniers to be more enjoyable for most tours. There have been two situations where I've chosen to use a trailer instead. The first is when flying into one city with my Bike Friday and leaving from another city after the tour or when using some public transit in the middle of the tour that requires the bike to be packed. In this case the Bike Friday system of a trailer/suitcase works very well since you always have the case for packing the bike along with you. The second situation is when I take my kayak along on the tour (only for rather short tours so far). It doesn't fit in my panniers and if I'm going to have the kayak on a trailer I may as well put my other gear there as well.

Although I've never had any handling or other issues with a trailer, I still prefer panniers for most trips. The main advantage is that it reduces the total weight to be carried. I try to minimize the amount of gear and using a trailer adds a substantial amount of unnecessary weight.

Ok, first I think I should define what a "center of mass" is:
(From wikipedia) "is the point at which the system's whole mass can be considered to be concentrated for the purpose of calculations. The center of mass is a function only of the positions and masses of the particles that compose the system. " It's kind of like an average. For example, a person's center of mass is located in their abdomen near their belly button.

The center of resistance is a similar concept, except instead of masses and their positions, it deals with the forces of resistance(i.e. rolling resistance of tires and aerodynamic drag) and their positions.

A simple example: An arrow flying through the air. Most of the weight is concentrated in the sharp metal tip so the center of mass is located somewhere along the center of the shaft, closer to the tip than the tail. The fletching at the aft end creates more air resistance than the arrowhead and shaft, which shifts the center of resistance aft. Having the center of resistance behind the center of mass makes the arrow stable. This is because the drag force is a retarding one, pulling back on the arrow from the center of resistance. In addition, the greater the distance between the centers, the more stable the arrow, as the drag force has a longer lever arm to keep the arrow flying true.
I found another explanation (with graphics!) online. (http://resources.yesican-science.ca/100_years/unit1_flight1g06.html)

Now to apply these concepts to a bike tourist astride their bike, towing a trailer. The rider, bike, and trailer each have a center of mass and then all combined have a center of mass. Lets say this theoretical center of mass is somewhere aft and down from your bellybutton due to the position and weight of your bike and gear. The exact position will depend on just how much your bike and gear weigh relative to you. For the purposes of this post, I'm also going to ignore the vertical and transverse (side-to-side) position of the centers. It's complex enough and this is an internet forum.

The center of resistance has the following main components: air drag of you, your bike, your gear/trailer, and the rolling resistance of all tires touching the ground. The position of your tires rolling resistance is obvious (where they touch the ground) but the position of the center of resistance from air drag for each component is complicated. So I'm assuming that the center of resistance for the rider, bike, and gear is the same as their centers of mass. (I should also mention that the force of braking for each wheel can be thought of as part of that wheel's rolling resistance) Combined, we end up with a single center of resistance.

I will also mention that air drag increases exponentially with speed and rolling resistance increases linearly with speed. So air drag increases faster than rolling resistance as you gain speed.

Let's send that bike tourist down a steep hill. As they gain speed the air drag of the rider and bike increase quickly (the trailer is partially shielded from the wind), this shifts the center of resistance forward. If the center of resistance passes in front of the center of mass, the system becomes unstable! On a touring bike with panniers the bike will feel twitchy and may shimmy as it becomes less stable. With a trailer you have the additional risk of having the trailer fish tail or jack-knife. Think of it as if you and that heavy trailer are an arrow flying in reverse! The further back the center of mass, the sooner you will reach this point of instability. A light rider pulling a heavy load in a trailer is a prime example!

A quick word about damping: damping is resistance to motion (especially oscillation) in a system. It is quite common for bike tourists to ride bikes that are "unstable" according to the example above without any problems because we as riders "damp" out unwanted motions mostly unconsciously. The damping we as riders provide depends on a whole bunch of stuff: familiarity with the bicycle, fatigue, tension, etc. Our body weight relative to our bike and gear can also play a role in how much damping we provide.

I hope this all makes sense, but I caution that it is not the whole picture. Based on my explanation it may seem prudent to shift the center of mass forward and shift the center of resistance aft but this is not always so. I would hesitate to shift more than 60% of the weight to the front wheel for instance.

Wow, thanks so much.

+2 I would love to hear more explanation. Especially if any of it lends itself to advice about how to deal with a trailer if one MUST use one (like MTB touring).

Thanks!
My other post was huge so I thought I'd include more trailer advice here. It is based off what I learned when I built my own single wheel trailer and took it on a 1500 mile tour.

*Letting out the air in your trailer tire to the min necessary for the weight/terrain will increase stability. I've only done this ahead of really scary steep downhills, otherwise it's too annoying.
*I've also let my tarp flap in the breeze off the trailer to further shift the center of resistance back.
*Getting the trailer weight as low as clearance issues allow helps with stability.
*Bungees to keep everything still

To keep everything under control on a downhill:
*Get into a tuck position, even when braking. This helps a lot.
*To dampen out speed wobbles, don't try to keep the bike straight, force it to make sweeping turns

As for MTB touring, speeds are lower and rolling resistance has a relatively larger influence on the center of resistance, so many of the stability issues trailers see on the road are less likely on the dirt.

Based on my explanation it may seem prudent to shift the center of mass forward and shift the center of resistance aft but this is not always so. I would hesitate to shift more than 60% of the weight to the front wheel for instance.

Just to clarify, I believe you are referring to total weight, not just the luggage load, right?

For example in my earlier statement I stated that it is often recommended that 60% of your touring load be placed in the front. with 40% in the rear. To use a simple example:

on a bike with a 42 inch wheelbase and 17 inch chainstays and a 175lb rider, whose position puts his center of mass above the bottom bracket: which would put more of the riders weight on the rear tire than on the front. 45%F/55%R or 78#F/96#R. If a 50 pound touring load was then split 60% front 40% rear, you would have 30#F/20#R of touring load, moving the total distributed balance to 108#F/116#R. If that same load were to be all placed at the rear, you end up with a 78#F/146#R or 35%F/65% rear.

Of course this assumes that the center of both the front and rear loads were kept within the wheelbase, something that can be harder to do when only loading one end of the bike (normally that end would be the rear), and any weight placed outside the wheelbase would act in a way as to lighten the other end, for example extra large rear panniers, rack trunks or duffelbags that extend well to the rear, placing their center of mass behind the rear axle.

My other post was huge so I thought I'd include more trailer advice here. It is based off what I learned when I built my own single wheel trailer and took it on a 1500 mile tour.

*Letting out the air in your trailer tire to the min necessary for the weight/terrain will increase stability. I've only done this ahead of really scary steep downhills, otherwise it's too annoying.
*I've also let my tarp flap in the breeze off the trailer to further shift the center of resistance back.
*Getting the trailer weight as low as clearance issues allow helps with stability.
*Bungees to keep everything still

To keep everything under control on a downhill:
*Get into a tuck position, even when braking. This helps a lot.
*To dampen out speed wobbles, don't try to keep the bike straight, force it to make sweeping turns

As for MTB touring, speeds are lower and rolling resistance has a relatively larger influence on the center of resistance, so many of the stability issues trailers see on the road are less likely on the dirt.

Excellent posts. I am not small(175lb/6ft) so can't reply to the OPs original post. I can say that having a 2 wheel trailer prevents a lot of the problems mentioned above. I have hit speeds above 40 mph on downhills and never felt any shimmy pulling a burley flatbed. Obviously this is not an option for single track but is an excellent possibility for paved touring.

barturtle, yes I was referring to total weight. My 60% figure is not exact; I was trying to demonstrate that folks shouldn't allow the brief engineering lesson I gave to blind them to some common rules of thumb which have served tourists for decades.

balto charlie, thank you. 2 wheel trailers do reduce a trailer's tendency to shimmy or jack-knife. (in part because they create more air drag and rolling resistance than a single wheel trailer) They can be more prone to roll over issues when high speed turning though. Packing gear low becomes even more important for a two-wheel trailer than with a single-wheel!

I'm sure you will get a different answer from every single person on the list. Like most of cycle touring, it all depends on you and your attitude. If you are in the right frame of mind you can do an Alpine tour on a bike made of old gas pipe banded together with duct tape.
To find out for yourself, you may want to borrow a trailer (or two or three) to see if they work for you on a weekend ride. Don't be afraid to try for yourself even if it goes against the popular vote.... at least you will know for yourself.

Should have checked back in here earlier, but was out riding too much ;).This has turned into a really interesting discussion! Thanks, enthusiast, for your explanation of the dynamics of a rider-trailer system. I've dealt with similar dynamics in sailboats, except there it's center of effort in the sails vs. center of mass of the boat. (and bad dynamics lead to much wetter crashes).

In my experiences with carrying loads, I find I have to be careful when riding with a rearward weight bias on my main commuter (Marin Point Reyes) as it tends to start a resonant wobble in the front at higher speeds- particularly if the weight is centered fairly high, such as in a rack bag without panniers below.

I'd like to try a trailer, even knowing ahead of time it may not work- but then I tend to try lots of things just because I'm incorrigibly curious about everything bicycle related.