Commuting - No!!!!!

Seems that car manufacturers, specifically Ford in this case, are more interested in the bottom line than people's safety:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ces-ford8-2010jan08,0,4905917.story

Quote from the article:

"At the same time, some wonder whether the added options would distract drivers from driving."

Well, DUH!!!

"Ford maintains that Sync's voice-command feature lets drivers keep their eyes on the road instead of fumbling with their phones. Ford also built in some safeguards, such as disabling the car's Wi-Fi connection once the car is shifted out of park so as not to encourage Web surfing while driving. It also said it would allow only applications that would not endanger drivers, so playing video games would be out.

Sync is strategic to Ford in another way, Lindland said.

In five years, 57% of the car-buying public will be under 50 years old, she said. "That means there will be an awful lot of people out there multi-tasking while they're driving. That is the reality of people's lives, so why not be proactive and let people do those things as safely as possible?"'

We're doomed. HSA et al. need to kill this NOW.

" "That means there will be an awful lot of people out there multi-tasking while they're driving." :troll:

Insurance companies may not like that part very much... Geez, most people can't walk and talk on the phone at the same time :rolleyes:

Adam

Already covered:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?613462-New-ways-for-motorists-to-be-distracted&p=10240155#post10240155

" "That means there will be an awful lot of people out there multi-tasking while they're driving." :troll:

Insurance companies may not like that part very much... Geez, most people can't walk and talk on the phone at the same time :rolleyes:

Adam

Insurance companies will love this, because with the studies showing the dangers of multi-tasking and driving, they'll be able to jack the rates of anyone who buys a vehicle with these features. 22 y/o male driving a 2-door convertible with a Sync system? Your insurance payment will probably be more than your car payment each month.

Insurance companies will love this, because with the studies showing the dangers of multi-tasking and driving, they'll be able to jack the rates of anyone who buys a vehicle with these features. 22 y/o male driving a 2-door convertible with a Sync system? Your insurance payment will probably be more than your car payment each month.

LOL, I haven't looked at it this way!

Adam

Insurance companies will love this, because with the studies showing the dangers of multi-tasking and driving, they'll be able to jack the rates of anyone who buys a vehicle with these features. 20 y/o male driving a 2-door convertible? Your insurance payment will probably be more than your car payment each month.

this is already true. but i do have a pretty low car payment... :D

The new Ford pick-'em-up truck that's my alternative to the bike has Sync installed in it, and I've been using it from time to time for the past three months, in the hands-free phone mode. So far, I like it and it hasn't been a distraction... but then I'm not much in the habit of cell-phoning and driving...

Classic example of something useful when used properly, but potentially dangerous when not.

I'm not going to dump on Ford, though. They're developing and deploying a lot of cool, useful new technologies and designs to their fleet, and they didn't take government aid either. That goes a long way to making them look good to me.

Agreed, I have never been into Fords, though I always like their trucks. But being the only domestic company to not even want federal aid, I will show them much of the respect I believe they recently deserve. They have come a long way with keeping up the luxury in line with import cars. However I will disagree that any of these features will help make driving safer. In my eyes, every gadget added to assist the driver is taking a a basic and primary need to pay attention to all these things while driving. Instead people become dependent on such features and whenever problems happen it is always the technologies fault.

Insurance companies will love this, because with the studies showing the dangers of multi-tasking and driving, they'll be able to jack the rates of anyone who buys a vehicle with these features. 22 y/o male driving a 2-door convertible with a Sync system? Your insurance payment will probably be more than your car payment each month.

I keep hoping that insurance companies can be the free market regulating dumb-asses but it never seems to take, dumbasses always have the resources to devote.

Kit does it.

The National Transportaion Safety Board needs to act on this kind of crap. It's very unsafe and needs to be disabled when the car is not in park.

Already covered:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?613462-New-ways-for-motorists-to-be-distracted&p=10240155#post10240155

Woops - sorry about that, ItsJust Me. It was early. Hadn't had my coffee yet... :o

Classic example of something useful when used properly, but potentially dangerous when not.

I'm not going to dump on Ford, though. They're developing and deploying a lot of cool, useful new technologies and designs to their fleet, and they didn't take government aid either. That goes a long way to making them look good to me.

The old truck had to be traded when I got right-hooked by another pickup, coming back from a century ride back in October. I've been a Dodge guy since 1994 or so, but I bought a Ford this time in large part since they weren't lining up with GM and others to suckle at the teat of the taxpayers' bailout money. As it turned out, It was about $4000 cheaper than an equivalent Dodge, and a lot more truck for the money. Didn't realize the Sync was in there until they demonstrated it to me while they serviced the truck out, but it does make life a lot easier (and much safer) when I do have to use the iPhone.

The 2010 version of Sync that I have doesn't do wifi (at least not that I know of)... Sync works on Bluetooth, essentially making the truck itself your "hands free device." There's a little button on the dash panel to answer and hang up with, or you can use the voice command to dial with. Essentially it does the same thing that Onstar does in GM vehicles, except it works with the cell phone you already have, and doesn't need an addtional subscription to a paid service.

Seems that car manufacturers, specifically Ford in this case, are more interested in the bottom line than people's safety:

That's hardly news... ;)

Ford Pinto Exploding Gas Tank Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNeorjXMrE)

Here's a question for everyone praising how much "safer" it is to be "handsfree" while using their phone: what is so damn urgent that you "have" to use the phone in the car while driving, like it's some kind of birthright? I'm only 29, but even I remember the days where people lived perfectly healthy and probably more healthy lives without being attached to their portable electronics with a Bluetooth umbilical cord.

You know, I'm big on personal responsibility, but it saddens me to say that I think it's safe to conclude now that people simply aren't responsible enough for this kind of thing. Statistics clearly demonstrate just this. Safety is more important than watching catching up with Twitter on the road, so if it was up to me all of this kind of thing would be illegal. It is a distraction whether you're holding a device or not - why is this so hard to understand? Distracted driving is now a part of popular culture. I see it all the time in movies. It's unbelievable, and it's no wonder so many Americans are afraid to commute on bike. We are truly nuts.

I too was giving Ford credit for not crying for money, but this has pretty much nullified that feeling.

Peak Oil couldn't come soon enough, as far as I'm concerned.

What nobody has talked about is that the genie is out of the bottle, and there is no putting it back in. You guys commute by bike...how many drivers do you see talking on the phone, texting, reading email, etc. while they drive? I see many every day. No amount of legislation or *****ing in these forums is gong to get people to put down their phones when they drive. I say kudos to Ford for taking a leadership position on deploying handsfree technology to minimize distraction.

It also said it would allow only applications that would not endanger drivers, so playing video games would be out.

WHY GOD WHY! HEY COOL MY TXT IS RED!

I say kudos to Ford for taking a leadership position on deploying handsfree technology to minimize distraction.

But sadly, distraction is in the mind, not in the hands. Hand's free is a whitewash. It does little to reduce distraction.

You are right about legislation not stopping this, no more than it stops gambling, drinking or drugs. People are addicted to talking. (Though not to listening it seems ;) )

The far side of this situation I suspect will be that no one drives. Rather they will get in their car, punch in where they want to go and a networked gps/roadway system will move their car to its destination.

Here's a question for everyone praising how much "safer" it is to be "handsfree" while using their phone: what is so damn urgent that you "have" to use the phone in the car while driving, like it's some kind of birthright?

As one example, maybe you need to speak to the office during your hour-long commute. That can be a definite need, especially since the people on the other end now expect that they'll be able to reach you at any time of day, and some work activities can be time-sensitive.

I don't like cell phones as they're a tether, always putting me at someone else's beck and call. I wish I could get to the point where I don't have to carry a phone.

About Ford -- has everyone missed that they'll switch off various Sync features once the car starts moving? WiFi turns off when the transmission is shifted out of Park, etc? If a phone has to be used, hands-free voice control is definitely the way to go.

after actually reading the article, and having read up on these new features i'm driven to ask this one simple question of you people

how does this change anything...at all?

here, i'll answer that for you: it doesn't. unbunch the panties, ok? voice-op control in a car is *fantastic* hit a button, tell the car what you want, it does it.

kmcrawford: do you find yourself distracted while driving and talking to people in the car? if yes, then you're a great example of someone who shouldn't use a hands-free setup, or ever talk to people in the car. I treat my calls exactly as I would a convo in a car. if things get hairy, i'll tell people in both situations to chill and let me drive.

the WHAT'S SO DARN IMPORTANT! argument is tired and useless. stop it. some people actually have things going on. I do believe that people should learn how to use their equipment, but that's a whole other story.

after actually reading the article, and having read up on these new features i'm driven to ask this one simple question of you people

how does this change anything...at all?

here, i'll answer that for you: it doesn't. unbunch the panties, ok? voice-op control in a car is *fantastic* hit a button, tell the car what you want, it does it.

Exactly. No, I don't have voice control in my car, but one of my friends from work does, and it's really no worse of a distraction than when talking to someone inside the car.

And the line about more distracted drivers in the future? That's saying two things -- that the people who do it the least, i.e. old people, won't be around forever, so the basic percentage of gadget users will increase. And, because more people will be trying to multitask, it's going to depend upon the automakers to do what they can to reduce distractions inside the car while it's in motion.

All the legislation under consideration regarding distracted driving is getting support from automakers, too, not resistance. If BF should have a reaction to what Ford is working on, it should be a positive one instead of this knee-jerk ranting.

But, it's bikeforums.net. It wouldn't be as busy without reactionary, ill-informed complaining.

As one example, maybe you need to speak to the office during your hour-long commute. That can be a definite need, especially since the people on the other end now expect that they'll be able to reach you at any time of day, and some work activities can be time-sensitive.



Pull over and have the conversation while you're parked? It's not like there's not plenty of free parking in the US all over the place. Where'd we get the idea that it's OK to be distracted? Safety should be the top priority, period.

Pull over and have the conversation while you're parked? It's not like there's not plenty of free parking in the US all over the place. Where'd we get the idea that it's OK to be distracted? Safety should be the top priority, period.

Are you serious?

Okay, YOU pull over and park to have a half-hour conversation with your boss on a crowded freeway while you've got forty miles left to drive and an hour to get there. Just how well do you think that will work out?

This thread is just about stupid and ignorant enough to qualify for A&S.

Exactly. No, I don't have voice control in my car, but one of my friends from work does, and it's really no worse of a distraction than when talking to someone inside the car.

Actually, studies have shown that it is a greater distraction. The passenger apparently serves as a second set of eyes and ears and compensates to some extent for the extra distraction of the conversation.

Bingo... it's the act of having the conversation that is the greatest distraction from steering, not handling or holding the phone... unless of course you're trying to dial or text...

Here's a question for everyone praising how much "safer" it is to be "handsfree" while using their phone: what is so damn urgent that you "have" to use the phone in the car while driving, like it's some kind of birthright? I'm only 29, but even I remember the days where people lived perfectly healthy and probably more healthy lives without being attached to their portable electronics with a Bluetooth umbilical cord.

You know, I'm big on personal responsibility, but it saddens me to say that I think it's safe to conclude now that people simply aren't responsible enough for this kind of thing. Statistics clearly demonstrate just this. Safety is more important than watching catching up with Twitter on the road, so if it was up to me all of this kind of thing would be illegal. It is a distraction whether you're holding a device or not - why is this so hard to understand? Distracted driving is now a part of popular culture. I see it all the time in movies. It's unbelievable, and it's no wonder so many Americans are afraid to commute on bike. We are truly nuts.

I too was giving Ford credit for not crying for money, but this has pretty much nullified that feeling.

Peak Oil couldn't come soon enough, as far as I'm concerned.


I remember what those days were like. Those were the days when people crashed their car because they were looking for a cd, which was located in the back of the car on the passenger side. Of course it also held between 500 and 10,000 cds so it too a few minutes to find a cd. That was the time when you crashed your car.

Those were also the days of crashing your car be cause you were reading a full size map while driving. Now we have GPS. Enter the address before you go and no fussing with a map.

Do you have to read a map while driving? No. Will people find directions while navigating their car? Yes. Sure you might like to outlaw these things but someone is always going to do something to distract themselves while driving. Might as well try to make it safer and not a distraction to driving.

Are you serious?

Okay, YOU pull over and park to have a half-hour conversation with your boss on a crowded freeway while you've got forty miles left to drive and an hour to get there. Just how well do you think that will work out?

This thread is just about stupid and ignorant enough to qualify for A&S.

Well, when I do drive it's usually a stick shift, so I would absolutely tell my boss that I couldn't have the conversation then. Or if the conversation had to happen then, I would absolutely pull over. If there were consequences, I'd defend my decision, to someone higher-up if necessary. But really... how often do you think your case actually happens? I maintain that the vast majority of these conversations can wait.

It is a distraction and it is unsafe - this is well documented. All the attempted justification in the world doesn't make it OK.

Are you serious?

Okay, YOU pull over and park to have a half-hour conversation with your boss on a crowded freeway while you've got forty miles left to drive and an hour to get there. Just how well do you think that will work out?

This thread is just about stupid and ignorant enough to qualify for A&S.

I donno, but if your boss is dumb enough to want to jeopardize your's and other's safety by having a half hour conversation with you while you are driving then:

1) the boss had better be paying for the car and insurance and cell phone time
2) the boss should know that even the government recommends not driving and using the cell phone for government employees
3) your boss was stupid and should have briefed you before you left.

But really... how often do you think your case actually happens? I maintain that the vast majority of these conversations can wait.

When they can't wait... well, that's too bad -- they still can't wait.

This is part of the reason why I do everything I can to not get forced into an hour-long commute. I'd simply lose my mind if I had spend two hours (or more) in the worst traffic of the day, so I got a place that's less than ten minutes from my job (20 if I walk). I listen to the stories from the other guys about how their usual 45-minute drive turned into an hour and a half because of some stupid wreck blocking traffic, and I don't even comment.

I see it this way:

Fact: Driving while distracted is dangerous

Fact: Human beings are highly social and will engage in social behavior whenever possible.

Fact: Technology has allowed us to be social practically anywhere.

Fact: Human beings will engage in social behavior (texting/phone calling/web surfing) anywhere they can.

Fact: Controlling or modifying human behavior- especially with regards to social interaction is virtually impossible and often a form of denial of reality and/or a form of totalitarianism.

So the reality is that it's going to be extremely difficult to get people off their cell phones and technology while driving- even through legislation and enforcement. Hard line thinking makes those of us with the personal discipline to restrain our impulse to use these devices while driving feel really virtuous and good about our own actions but will do little to change the behavior of others. While I'm not a big fan of large automobile manufacturers, texting, phoning while driving etc. I see the efforts on the part of Ford as one way of dealing with a reality we'll be living with for many years to come.

This is part of the reason why I do everything I can to not get forced into an hour-long commute. I'd simply lose my mind if I had spend two hours (or more) in the worst traffic of the day, so I got a place that's less than ten minutes from my job (20 if I walk). I listen to the stories from the other guys about how their usual 45-minute drive turned into an hour and a half because of some stupid wreck blocking traffic, and I don't even comment.

Well, same here. Actually I didn't even consider commuting by bike when I moved, but I did at least know I didn't want to live "far" (what I considered far at the time, at least) from work. It's seven miles - which I'm now perfectly capable of doing daily, but I wouldn't mind living a little closer. It might be down to about 4 miles if we move where I hope to move in the next few years, which would be the best I could hope to do in foreseeable future while keeping my current job, which I intend to do.

I figure, if someone can't pay attention to their driving while speaking hands-free, they should also tell their passengers to not speak a word, and be just as silent if they're riding in someone else's car.

I've never seen that happen, though.

I figure, if someone can't pay attention to their driving while speaking hands-free, they should also tell their passengers to not speak a word, and be just as silent if they're riding in someone else's car.

I've never seen that happen, though.

These are two very different things, and studies have proven that. There was just a few days ago a discussion on "Talk of the Nation" where the difference between talking to somebody sitting next to you in a car and talking on the phone was discussed.

For myself, I know I am terribly distracted when I am on the phone and my focus is no longer 100% on the road.

But., all of us here are anyway superior beings who've figured out a better way to get to work than driving, right :p:thumb:

These are two very different things, and studies have proven that. There was just a few days ago a discussion on "Talk of the Nation" where the difference between talking to somebody sitting next to you in a car and talking on the phone was discussed.

Yeah, and it still baffles me. In both situations, I'm looking out the windshield, not at the person I'm talking with. Some passengers seem to get uncomfortable when they realize that I'm not going to turn my head to talk to them.

I'll just stick with what I said. I've seen drivers who can't keep their attention forward while talking with a passenger, so they're surely just as incapable of going hands-free as they are riding with someone.

I'll just stick with what I said. I've seen drivers who can't keep their attention forward while talking with a passenger, so they're surely just as incapable of going hands-free as they are riding with someone.

No doubt!! Some lousy drivers out there...

This. (http://www.yourlawyer.com/articles/read/17486)

Once I arrived on the scene of an accident immediately after it happened, and helped other people doing the initial cleaning and caring.

It was a two lane highway and a BMW had crossed the line and run into a mini van. The driver of the Bimmer was lucky because she was thrown from the car, but unhurt.

I overheard her saying to someone, "I was dialing my cell phone and the car, JUST WENT OUT OF CONTROL!"

I overheard her saying to someone, "I was dialing my cell phone and the car, I'M STUPID AND JUST FORGOT TO CONTROL IT!"

f.i.f. her. ;)

My dad was telling me about an accident he saw where the driver who caused it got out of their car with their phone still held to her face. He stayed around and told the other driver, and maybe the cop, about what he saw and offered to be a witness. I don't think he got called for a followup, so maybe there wasn't any argument about what the stupid driver did.