Advocacy & Safety - So I plowed into the back of a parked car. Does this seem right?

I know I smashed the rear window with my head. I think I also dented the trunk lid.

But the damage estimate was $3900. On a 2001 Honda Civic. (Trade in value $3300)

Would it have also been enough force to bend the bumper? That's what they're claiming.

How much damage can a bike possibly do to a car?

Jesus. Are they insisting you buy yourself a brand new bike as part of that estimate?!

I know I smashed the rear window with my head. I think I also dented the trunk lid.

But the damage estimate was $3900. On a 2001 Honda Civic. (Trade in value $3300)

Would it have also been enough force to bend the bumper? That's what they're claiming.

How much damage can a bike possibly do to a car?

No. It's not correct. If it is suggest they have their insurance company total the car.

The total for repair could easily reach $1000 or more, realistically (depending on who's doing the work) - but there's no way it'd get up to $3000+

All cars sold in the U.S. have 5mph bumpers - which means that it would be practically impossible for you to do anything more than scruff up the paint (a couple hundred of dollars right there) with your bicycles.

i'm in the midwest so labor may be different but here goes my best guess:

if bumper cover needs painted remove, paint, install runs about $500

worst case senario the trunk dent cant be pulled, on a car like this they will locate a junk yard lid, paint it to match, and install maybe $1200

back window is dual compound with defrost new maybe $400

that gives you $2100

if the bumper cover and inner support are damaged beyond repair (possible i guess but not likely) that could easily add another $1000

now we are at $3100 the extra price difference may just be the higher labor cost in CA

keep in mind i'm no adjuster and im just guessing high on parts cost. i did have a 1991 firebird that had had minor bumper/hood damage from a co worker and the bill for a new hood, bumper, and paint was $2900

How much damage can a bike possibly do to a car?
$3,900.

Since it was difficult to get a good look at the car from inside the ambulance, I just want to make sure I'm not paying for anything I didn't break. Not sure how to go about doing that, though.

All cars sold in the U.S. have 5mph bumpers - which means that it would be practically impossible for you to do anything more than scruff up the paint (a couple hundred of dollars right there) with your bicycles.

5mph bumpers are a joke. with the exorbitant price of parts like headlight and the push for better fuel milage (lighter plastic bumper covers with complex curves for aerodynamics) 5mph collisions can cost a fortune. 5mph bumpers just prevent "structural damage"


Since it was difficult to get a good look at the car from inside the ambulance, I just want to make sure I'm not paying for anything I didn't break. Not sure how to go about doing that, though.

oh my, are you alright? have a helmet on?

There is foam under the bumper cover which may or may not be an integral part of the bumper. If that is damaged, it could be that yes, you damaged the bumper beyond repair.

Do you have insurance?

No you didn't break the bumper, like somebody stated they're designed to deflect a 5mph impact from a car. Obtain the evidence from the police collision report which should include photographs of the damages.

You have the right to shop the repairs yourself if you are paying and are found at fault.

Act in haste repent at leisure.

I know I smashed the rear window with my head. I think I also dented the trunk lid.

But the damage estimate was $3900. On a 2001 Honda Civic. (Trade in value $3300)

Would it have also been enough force to bend the bumper? That's what they're claiming.

How much damage can a bike possibly do to a car?

It would depend on how fast you were going, and how you hit. I doubt you could do much damage to a car bumper though. most likely a car hit the bumper earlier in a parking lot and they never noticed before. Brand new original Honda parts can be expensive, on a 9 year old car, a used trunk lid and bumper shouldn't be that expensive, those cars are pretty common. Painted to match the original, and the new window although if you find a junker with an intact trunk lid and bumper the rear window should be good too, as long as the defroster wires are not damaged. Should be under $1,000.

No you didn't break the bumper, like somebody stated they're designed to deflect a 5mph impact from a car. Obtain the evidence from the police collision report which should include photographs of the damages.

You have the right to shop the repairs yourself if you are paying and are found at fault.

Act in haste repent at leisure.

5mph bumpers dont prevent damage!!!

Most small cars aren't economical for crash repairs:
Ford Focus performs the best; Rabbit
& Prius are the worst in bumper tests (http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr090408.html)

First results of new crash tests: most car bumpers don't work in low-speed crashes; 3 cars sustain $4,500 damage in 6 mph test while old Ford Escort sustains little damage

(http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr030107.html)

"In a series of crash tests, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety recently assessed how well the bumpers of 20 small car models would protect the vehicles from damage in low-speed collisions. The worst performers are the Hyundai Elantra, Toyota Prius, and Volkswagen Rabbit, each sustaining about $4,000 damage or more in a single test. The Ford Focus performed the best, with about one-third that amount of damage in its worst test.

"Small cars are supposed to be economical, but there's nothing economical about three or four thousand dollars in repairs after a low-speed collision," says Institute senior vice president Joe Nolan. "Ford did the best job of putting bumpers on a small car that largely do what they're supposed to do. In 3 of the 4 tests, the bumpers on the Focus protected sheet metal and most other expensive parts from damage."

"Bumpers on most cars aren't worthy of the term," Nolan says. "Even the best bumper in this group still allowed more than a thousand dollars damage in one 3 mph crash test. Some simple changes could prevent a lot of damage to cars, and expense and headaches for consumers."

Insurance Institute for Highway Safety Sept 4, 2008

edit: maybe your laws are different, but here in iowa, the vehicle owner has full right to decide what body shop is doing the repairs. it does not manner who eats the cost.

5mph bumpers dont prevent damage!!!

9___ 9

I'll bet you $3000 that if you go outside and rear end your own car with a bicycle at 10mph you're not going to inflict $3000 worth of damage to your car.

Heck, I'll let you run into mine.

9___ 9

I'll bet you $3000 that if you go outside and rear end your own car with a bicycle at 10mph you're not going to inflict $3000 worth of damage to your car.

Heck, I'll let you run into mine.

where did you get 10mph? the poor guy went through the back window, dented the trunk lid and took a ride in an ambulance. he had to have hit it pretty hard. Like i already said, my guess is about $2000 damage for the described damage and we dont have to test this theory, the OP already did. both my cars have real bumpers anyway:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/SSPX0165.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/black%20friday/DSC00765.jpg

My guess is 10-15. It was at the very start of my commute home, across the street the school where I teach. It was exactly 100 yards from where I had just made a u-turn. I wasn't warmed up. I was accelerating, but not that aggressively.

where did you get 10mph? the poor guy went through the back window, dented the trunk lid and took a ride in an ambulance. he had to have hit it pretty hard.

10mph is pretty hard.


My guess is 10-15. It was at the very start of my commute home, across the street the school where I teach. It was exactly 100 yards from where I had just made a u-turn. I wasn't warmed up. I was accelerating, but not that aggressively.

If you don't mind my asking, just how did you manage to run into a parked car anyway?

10mph is pretty hard.



If you don't mind my asking, just how did you manage to run into a parked car anyway?

apparently hard enough to do a number on a civic.

do you have any pictures of the bike? what were you riding anyway?

I think I was either looking down at something or fiddling with my computer. I may have moved over to let a car go by. I hit just on the outside.

I bent the frame of my Surly Crosscheck. But the front wheel didn't even go out of true. The frame took the worst, the fork almost seems straight. Barys may have been tweaked. One brake lever was pushed sideways.

I think I was either looking down at something or fiddling with my computer. I may have moved over to let a car go by. I hit just on the outside.

I bent the frame of my Surly Crosscheck. But the front wheel didn't even go out of true. The frame took the worst, the fork almost seems straight. Barys may have been tweaked. One brake lever was pushed sideways.

that doesnt seem all that bad.

if you can, i would try and get pictures of the car like already stated.

Given how heavy my bike is most days, and that I can easily maintain a 15 - 20 MPH speed, coupled with the fact that I have a front pannier rack mounted to it. I can see that IF I were run into either the rear-end or side of a car that I could do some damage to it.

Painted to match the original, and the new window although if you find a junker with an intact trunk lid and bumper the rear window should be good too.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but if somebody damages my vehicle I'm not settling for used parts.

You should probably request a copy of the body shop estimate.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but if somebody damages my vehicle I'm not settling for used parts.

You should probably request a copy of the body shop estimate.

If your car was 9 years old, you might have to when it comes to something like a trunk lid.

5mph bumpers dont prevent damage!!!
...
edit: maybe your laws are different, but here in iowa, the vehicle owner has full right to decide what body shop is doing the repairs. it does not manner who eats the cost.

Yes, our laws are very different. We have no fault insurance. 5mph bumpers do prevent most damage though can be scrapped/chipped in the process. Our standard again was for a higher speed(not anymore due to political pressure from u know who) and we actually fail cars(Mitsubishi lancer sporty thing was a popular failure) that don't pass it. Not sure why your gov't lets cars be imported and licensed which don't pass safety tests.

Anyways, i doubt he totaled the bumper... but who knows - he doesn't.

Do you have auto insurance? If yes, they may be obligated to cover you as a driver; regardless of the vehicle you were driving.

What do you mean by (Trade in value $3300)? If that is the blue book value of the car, tell the owner that you consider the car totaled, you will only pay the blue book value in exchange for the title. Then you can sell the car to recover as much of your pay out as possible.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but if somebody damages my vehicle I'm not settling for used parts.

You should probably request a copy of the body shop estimate.

New parts are sometimes hard to come by, for older vehicles, and that can make them much more expensive. Car companies are notorious for making changes so that parts from one year do not fit on another of the same model, even though they look identical. Body panels are large, and older cars that are involved in collisions are often not repaired, because the cost of the repair exceeds the value of the car, so for the car company these parts will be discontinued first. Many cars that have air bags are written off, even though the collision damage is much less then the value of the car, because the airbags deployed and it costs thousands of dollars to replace each one. The car companies know this, and they stock parts accordingly, so finding a trunk lid and bumper for a 2001, in new OEM parts may actually be very difficult. Used parts in good to excellent condition, may actually be very easy to find and fairly inexpensive. New non-OEM parts may be available, but a good used part with no rust will probably be a better repair.

If that is the blue book value of the car, tell the owner that you consider the car totaled, you will only pay the blue book value in exchange for the title. Then you can sell the car to recover as much of your pay out as possible.
The OP can "tell" the car owner anything he wants about "value" and "title exchange", that doesn't mean the owner has any legal or contractual obligation to accept such an offer.

My insurance company will do the telling.

I know I smashed the rear window with my head. I think I also dented the trunk lid.

But the damage estimate was $3900. On a 2001 Honda Civic. (Trade in value $3300)

Would it have also been enough force to bend the bumper? That's what they're claiming.

How much damage can a bike possibly do to a car?

Congratulations! You just proved that a bicycle can "Total" a car.

My insurance company will do the telling.
I'm not sure that the car driver has to accept YOUR insurance company's offer; assuming that you are 100% liable for the damage to the auto.

The auto owner may have an agreement with his own insurance company that limits its liability to book value, but no such agreement with you or your insurance company. Presumably if he is not satisfied with an offer from your insurance company he can take you to court for the cost to return his auto to the condition it was before you wrecked it through your own negligence.

New parts are sometimes hard to come by, for older vehicles, and that can make them much more expensive. Car companies are notorious for making changes so that parts from one year do not fit on another of the same model, even though they look identical. Body panels are large, and older cars that are involved in collisions are often not repaired, because the cost of the repair exceeds the value of the car, so for the car company these parts will be discontinued first. Many cars that have air bags are written off, even though the collision damage is much less then the value of the car, because the airbags deployed and it costs thousands of dollars to replace each one. The car companies know this, and they stock parts accordingly, so finding a trunk lid and bumper for a 2001, in new OEM parts may actually be very difficult. Used parts in good to excellent condition, may actually be very easy to find and fairly inexpensive. New non-OEM parts may be available, but a good used part with no rust will probably be a better repair.

2001 is not an older vehicle at least not in terms of finding repair parts. Body parts are readily available through the dealer for sure. I can get brand new body parts from the dealer for my '86 944 turbo (similar car to the 924 posted above). They cost a fortune but they are available.

A body shop would never put used parts on a car unless the owner asked for them to be used. If my car were damaged by someone else, I would want new parts only regardless of it's age. Especially with sheet metal, small unnoticeable tweaks can cause poor fitment and impact resale value.

Plastic bumper covers are also very easy to damage. A chainring could have punctured a hole in it requiring replacement. Even a deep scratch is generally considered reason for replacement.

Air bags are a completely different issue. Passenger side air bags are typically housed in the dashboard which is not only an expensive item to replace, it's also very time consuming. Air bags themselves are extremely expensive and their inclusion on every car model, even the cheapest cars available, often means any accident that deploys the airbags means the car is totalled per the insurance company's point of view.

When I was in auto insurance, a customer had his car hit by a bike while parked. It can get expensive.

A bicycle has much less momentum than a car, but also has a much narrower point of impact than most cars. A bike certainly could damage the bumper cover enough to require replacement, and might do enough localized damage to the bumper core that it should be replaced to maintain shock absorption for the next time the car gets hit. (Most of the bumper and cover would have no damage at all, but you can't replace just 2" of a bumper cover where your tire hit it.)

Another big issue is paint -- when you hit the rear window, did yo do any damage to the paint on the roof, for example, or the pillars? Even if there's no damage to the underlying metal, paint damage can eat up a lot of labor costs.

Do you have homeowners or renters insurance? They generally include personal liability coverage that could cover your exposure since you were bicycling. (Personal liability generally excludes motor vehicles, while auto insurance generally liability only for driving motor vehicles. Your policy may vary, this is just general information.) If you do have insurance, your insurance company would also have a liability adjuster to take care of negotiating settlement and payment -- insurance companies see personal liability property damage claims all the time.

A body shop would never put used parts on a car unless the owner asked for them to be used. If my car were damaged by someone else, I would want new parts only regardless of it's age. Especially with sheet metal, small unnoticeable tweaks can cause poor fitment and impact resale value.

When it comes to something like trunk lids and doors - a new part is going to require the same amount of fiddling to fit right as a used part. That's just the nature of hinged parts on a car. Besides what's so bad about recycling anyway?

A body shop would never put used parts on a car unless the owner asked for them to be used.

That varies dramatically by state, depending in part on how the state's insurance claims practices regulations treat used vs. new parts. The part that was damaged was used, not new. In some states, the insurance company is free to specify used parts without asking the customer. If the customer wants new parts only, he might have to pay out of pocket for the improvement. (This assumes the owner is having the car repaired through his own insurance, rather than taking care of it himself.)

The OP can "tell" the car owner anything he wants about "value" and "title exchange", that doesn't mean the owner has any legal or contractual obligation to accept such an offer.


I'm not sure that the car driver has to accept YOUR insurance company's offer; assuming that you are 100% liable for the damage to the auto.

The auto owner may have an agreement with his own insurance company that limits its liability to book value, but no such agreement with you or your insurance company. Presumably if he is not satisfied with an offer from your insurance company he can take you to court for the cost to return his auto to the condition it was before you wrecked it through your own negligence.And the court will likely rule the owner gets blue book value and has to turn over the title OR drop the case.

You forgot to whine that the OP has no obligation to pay the owner, whatever amount the owner demands, since the OP is not satisfied with the settlement demand. That is why they call it a settlement NEGOTIATION.

The OP can "tell" the car owner anything he wants about "value" and "title exchange", that doesn't mean the owner has any legal or contractual obligation to accept such an offer.

Yep, and ain't no one gonna go for the trade-in value, unless they bought it recently and paid less than that.

And the court will likely rule the owner gets blue book value and has to turn over the title OR drop the case.

You forgot to whine that the OP has no obligation to pay the owner, whatever amount the owner demands, since the OP is not satisfied with the settlement demand. That is why they call it a settlement NEGOTIATION.
That is why the auto owner can choose not to agree to the OP's "telling" him what the settlement terms must be, and sue him for the actual costs of repair.
What makes you think a court will tell the owner he has to settle for whatever the guilty party decides is good enough?

As usual, you consider any opinion other than your own, either a "whine" or a troll. Sorry, such rhetorical tricks add no weight to your legal wannabe brief.

What makes you think a court will tell the owner he has to settle for whatever the guilty party decides is good enough?Normal history for the courts is to give repair cost or blue book, which ever is less. What makes you think the court will make the OP pay whatever the owner demands.
Which is what makes your post pointless.

Maybe the OP doesn't have $3900 or any reasonable way to get $3900?? Not that this is the case-just suppose. From what the OP posted, I don't have any reason to think this is so, but the car owner might not have any idea about the OP finances(unless he drove by his house, and it was 5000 sq ft etc).

I kinda doubt if it is worth suing most folks for $3900. The lawyer sure as heck will want upfront money to sue for so little.

The OP should negotiate.Yes, he is at fault, but that doesn't mean he has to pay more than the car is worth.
Heck, suing isn't the same as collecting.
If you have plenty of $$, just pay the $3900-and forget about it.
If you have very few assets-you have HUGE leverage.
Threatening to sue someone who has very few assets-no insurance- is nothing.
If you are in the middle-do what you are doing-negotiate something fair-pay-forget about it.

The OP is trying to be fair. $3900 seems high.Sure the car driver can sue, but can he collect?
Offer him $2500-he won't sue you-you'll go back and forth a bit and find a number.
Charlie
PS- If you are affluent -just pay and forget it.
Dirt poor-just forget it-you can't pay, and they can't collect.
PPS I'm not taking either side in the long running feud.

How is this A&S?

Belongs in 'General Cycling Discussion'

Good question. Perhaps we're not taking the right meaning from the OP's words : "Does this seem right?"

If that's the case, then the obvious answer is : Of course it's right. Avoid parked cars if you don't wanna pay for them. Be especially wary of Luxury vehicles. If you need to hit a car, go for something mid 70s-mid 80s. ;)

I kinda doubt if it is worth suing most folks for $3900. The lawyer sure as heck will want upfront money to sue for so little.
Small claims court is easy and no lawyers involved.

f you need to hit a car, go for something mid 70s-mid 80s. ;)

the increased cost in medical expenses my offset the damage to the car :)

Good question. Perhaps we're not taking the right meaning from the OP's words : "Does this seem right?"

If that's the case, then the obvious answer is : Of course it's right. Avoid parked cars if you don't wanna pay for them. Be especially wary of Luxury vehicles. If you need to hit a car, go for something mid 70s-mid 80s. ;)
Better yet wreck some working man's serviceable but formerly working clunker; pay him nothing cause the car isn't "worth anything" to you or the insurance company. Screw the owner let him pay for the repairs to get it running or he should go buy a new car at his expense, he shoulda had a BMW,eh?

Better yet wreck some working man's serviceable but formerly working clunker; pay him nothing cause the car isn't "worth anything" to you or the insurance company. Screw the owner let him pay for the repairs to get it running or he should go buy a new car at his expense, he shoulda had a BMW,eh?

I feel like the bike rider may come out worse though, in a tangle with vehicles of that caliber. No plastic body panels, and hope you got your tetanus shots.

I feel like the bike rider may come out worse though, in a tangle with vehicles of that caliber. No plastic body panels, and hope you got your tetanus shots.
The careless cyclist's injuries are cold comfort to the car owner who gets stiffed for the cost of repairs to his vehicle.

And the court will likely rule the owner gets blue book value and has to turn over the title OR drop the case.

You forgot to whine that the OP has no obligation to pay the owner, whatever amount the owner demands, since the OP is not satisfied with the settlement demand. That is why they call it a settlement NEGOTIATION.

Wrong. If I driving around in a mint condition 1990 Honda Civic that is totalled by another negligent driver I can sue to obtain a replacement vehicle regardless of the book value.

The careless cyclist's injuries are cold comfort to the car owner who gets stiffed for the cost of repairs to his vehicle.

All $0.50 cents of them. Nothing a little borrowed nail polish and some elbow grease won't fix.

If a cyclist is going fast enough and weighs enough to smash a window with his head, it should be no surprise that the rest of his body can do significant damage on impact. Absent independent and conflicting evidence of the cost to repair, the only other variable is whether you can prove preexisting damage not caused by this impact.

CB HI- true small claims court is almost free. Still -collecting is always the problem.Insurance companies eventually pay-individuals, maybe not.

Now our OP isn't going to stiff the car owner, but the car owner doesn't know that.Our OP has some leverage to bargain . Collecting can be tough- or impossible no matter what a court says.

If I was not affluent-and I'm not- I would bargain starting at $2500 and planning to stay under $3000. It can be fixed for $3000. Life isn't fair or perfect-you don't always get what you want.
Affluent-just pay and forget.

Regardless of how much it costs the ins will only pay so much prior to totaling. the Owner of he vehicle will not have much luck going after the OP if they plan on settling with the ins co. If the OP has insurance just refer the case to the INS and let them deal with it.

I know I smashed the rear window with my head. I think I also dented the trunk lid.

But the damage estimate was $3900. On a 2001 Honda Civic. (Trade in value $3300)

Would it have also been enough force to bend the bumper? That's what they're claiming.

How much damage can a bike possibly do to a car?

You could potentially total a car with your bike/body. That sounds like a lot for the car in question however. I would call bs on that.