Bicycle Mechanics - Ok, so cantilever brakes suck.

Tektro oryx - spent 2 hours carefully seating the housing, picking out the ends until the cable slid inside the housing with absolutely no resistance, aligning the pads (new avid v-brake pads) symmetrically on each side...etc.

I've tried tektro oryx, an older set of shimano's, and even a third set I had laying around (no name).

They still suck - my v-brakes went back on in 2 minutes and have more power already....the oryx had "ok" power, but still not like the v-brakes do. You don't even have to align the pads perfectly and they still work better than cantilevers.

I just can't see using these pieces of crap when they pale in comparison to linear pulls.

Oh, and the lack of easy to use barrel adjusters is stupid too. Having to use in-line adjusters, or introducing sharp bends in the housing at frame stops sucks.

Dead technology!

The only reason these things still exist is because their mating with drop bars....that's it. No one would use them otherwise...ok, I'm done.

yep, I agree. Does anyone know what the best brakes are aside from disc brakes? Are the Avid Digit 5 Linear pull brakes good? I've seen good reviews about them. I've got a rim that's 1 1/4" wide and my cantilever brakes won't work on them because the rim is too wide. I had to take a hack saw and shave off 1/8th inch off each brake pad to get them to work.

The best cantis currently available are Tektro cr720 (http://www.tektro.com/02products/11qb.php). They are much wider design than Oryx and have more powerful braking.
They work well with my Campy Mirage levers.
Compared to the old Diacomp 987 cantis, these are much lighter, simpler, easier to adjust and more powerful.

I run Cane Creek CSX-5 cantis with Kool Stop pads on my Trek 520 just fine. Took a little time to get them adjusted properly.

I am pretty sure that you need different levers to get the correct mechanical leverage when using cantis vs. v-brakes.

I am not surprised that they didn't feel right.

Steve

I am pretty sure that you need different levers to get the correct mechanical leverage when using cantis vs. v-brakes.

I am not surprised that they didn't feel right.

Steve

+1

Try again on the install. For a beginner it's pretty hard to set up cantis, but once you get some practice it will get easier.

I have Tektro Oryx canti's and have ZERO problems with them. They stop me as good as my road calipers. I run the Kool-Stop Moutain pads and they were very easy to setup with no squeal and minimal shuddering on my cross bike.

I agree with Stevetone about needing different levers for canti's and vee's. It seems that at least half the time that people jump on a forum to bash something, it turns out to be user error.

+10 I like cantis, but Vbrake levers are not going to work well on cantis.

The best cantis currently available are Tektro cr720 (http://www.tektro.com/02products/11qb.php). They are much wider design than Oryx and have more powerful braking.
They work well with my Campy Mirage levers.
Compared to the old Diacomp 987 cantis, these are much lighter, simpler, easier to adjust and more powerful.

Ahh, frog legs, they can take a bite out of you. I may be buying cantis, trying to decide between the various options out there.
I like the looks of the IRD canti, and Pauls makes a couple different cantis, including a frog leg design. Still looking, tho.

Search the forum in the cyclocross section for more details, but the key really is to have the arms parallel with each other when the pads are touching the rims. Once you have the pads aligned properly, then you can work on the traverse length and main cable placement. In fact, I find that I can have the traverse cable any length once the pads placement is correct. This is going to sound obvious, but the key is to get the pads to make contact with with slight movement of the canti as it pivots.

Disc brakes.

The option that no one in CX seems to want to hear.

Once you go with, say, an Avid BB7 mechanical setup, you'll never have a desire to go back to cantilevers.

@gene: steve is right, you need different levers.

@morph: there are a lot of good linear pull brakes out there, I have Shimano Deore XT one one of my bikes and I'm always impressed by the stopping power (especially when compared to road brakes, which are on my main bike).

@gene: steve is right, you need different levers.No, man. I thought I made it clear that I used a drop bar (and hence road levers) but I used shimano 105 road levers on the drop bar for the cantilevers. I use linear pull mountain levers on a flat bar for my v-brake. This is not a cable pull issue, it's a cantilevers are weaker than v-brakes issue.

you can replace all the pads you want, but I'd rather have v-brakes with crappy pads than cantilevers with kool stops any day.


Search the forum in the cyclocross section for more details, but the key really is to have the arms parallel with each other when the pads are touching the rims.Tried this, believe me. I read all of the Sheldon article about 10 times, and the cool geometry article posted recently with the schematic and everything. I had to remove my fenders to "see" the cantilever arms to make sure they were aligned properly....still suck.

And the need for sudden housing bends hasn't even come up yet.

I'm not saying that some other brand might not be better, but v-brakes are just a better technology IMO...and you don't have to spend an extra $30 on pads to "get them to work acceptably".



The best cantis currently available are Tektro cr720 (http://www.tektro.com/02products/11qb.php). They are much wider design than Oryx and have more powerful braking.According to the articles I've read, the exact opposite is actually true. Wide profile cantilevers have less mechanical advantage than low profiles, but supposedly have better "feel". I'd bet they still require spending $30 on decent pads to get any power out of them though.

I'd love to see a test of a set of cantilevers, with the best pads, adjusted with TLC vs. a $15 set of no-name v-brakes with stock pads, assembled by a kid in a test.

Dead technology.

I bought a Kona Jake the Snake last summer. It came with cantis. I use the bike for trail/night riding, plus shorter group rides with a spare set of road wheels. Love the bike but the braking was so poor it was almost dangerous. I replaced the brakes this fall with Deore V brakes and threw on some travel agents for good measure. Stops on a dime, on par with my regular road bike.

yes i agree cantis suck. wide profiles cannot match the power of low profile cantis unless the straddle wire is very low.

According to the articles I've read, the exact opposite is actually true. Wide profile cantilevers have less mechanical advantage than low profiles, but supposedly have better "feel". I'd bet they still require spending $30 on decent pads to get any power out of them though.

From what I've read, in addition to feel, the other big benefit of wide profiles is supposed to be mud clearance for CX. They allow you to set the pads far away from the rim but still have enough cable pull to cover the distance while retaining good modulation and adequate stopping power. I too have experimented with wide profile brakes and could never get the supposed massive power out of them that everyone raved about..at least not without setting the pads so close to the rim that rubbing was a problem.

this is the best brake setup i have ever had. road lever compatible, good pad clearance, gives on demand stoppies at speed with panniers on the back.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4178290410_45a9943729.jpg

The best cantis currently available are Tektro cr720 (http://www.tektro.com/02products/11qb.php). They are much wider design than Oryx and have more powerful braking.
They work well with my Campy Mirage levers.
Compared to the old Diacomp 987 cantis, these are much lighter, simpler, easier to adjust and more powerful.

This is intuitive - but is also completely wrong! Go and read Sheldon Brown's Cantilever geometry and tuning guides. The key factors in canti power are the height of cable straddle (lower is more powerful), cantilever angle, and pad clearance (lower is more powerful). There are lots of threads on the Cross forum about canti tuning too. Basically, you can increase mechanical advantage by a factor of at least 4 just by straddle adjustment - the cost is reduced mud clearance.

In fact, your 720s are LESS powerful than narrower cantis - see http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html. They do have superior mud clearance, which is this design was/is favoured by cyclocrossers (which often race in seas of churned up, deliberately hose-softened mud) but NEVER (ok, virtually - I'm sure some idiot must have fitted them some time) used on MTBs, which need maximum braking power.

I'd love to see a test of a set of cantilevers, with the best pads, adjusted with TLC vs. a $15 set of no-name v-brakes with stock pads, assembled by a kid in a test.

Dead technology.

My Kona Lava Dome with its 20 year old cantis can stop as fast as any modern disc brake MTB in the dry, and much faster than any racing bike.

You might have read the Brown article, but you certainly didn't adjusted your brakes properly. For which I don't blame you at all, because SB's article is rather complex. Go to the cross forum and search for old threads there - especially the ones that reference Bontrager's *much* simpler guide to tuning cantis. (Basically: set the pads for minimum clearance and then set the straddle cable as flat as you can - if you want maximum power).

*However* even if you get your cantis into high power mode, you may then suffer from irritating squealing or even fork shudder. You can avoid this by fitting Mini Vees - they're pull compatible with road levers, don't squeal or cause fork judder, and require zero adjustment skill. They're cheap too.

Cantis still exist because they're more versatile - you can tune them to trade clearance for power, which is great for cross. But they're really an advanced tool for specialist riders. Most people would be better served by Mini Vees - I really think they should be fitted to all but high end cross bikes as standard. It's especially irritating when bikes with under-engineered forks and headsets are sold with cantis, so that hard braking throws him into judder mode, lousing up control. (Personally I just wish the idiot UCI would legalize disc brakes for cross racing, than cantis would disappear. But they're too bust defending Lance Armstrong's right to stall drug testers...)

From what I've read, in addition to feel, the other big benefit of wide profiles is supposed to be mud clearance for CX. They allow you to set the pads far away from the rim but still have enough cable pull to cover the distance while retaining good modulation and adequate stopping power. I too have experimented with wide profile brakes and could never get the supposed massive power out of them that everyone raved about..at least not without setting the pads so close to the rim that rubbing was a problem.

It's not the other benefit, it's the ONLY benefit! From Sheldon Brown:



Wide profile cantilevers have a cantilever angle much greater than 90 degrees. The best example of this type is the old Mafac cantilevers, in which the anchor arm actually sloped downward from the boss in some installations. This design is now pretty much obsolete. Wide profile cantilevers have rather low mechanical advantage, and work well only with levers with a high mechanical advantage.


The 720 isn't quite as extreme as the MAFAC, but they are at least semi-wide angle. They're designed for maximum mud clearance for cross. They're a good design for the intended purpose, but will give acceptable mechanical advantage if tuned properly, but they are NOT designed to Stopping Monsters. In fact, arm length isn't really a guide to canti stopping power, although it looks as if it should be. This is because the distances that determines leverage are the pivot-cable distance - PC on the diagram below -and pivot-show, PS. You need to take their[ b]ratio[/b] - and then factor by the effect of the straddle angle....

http://sheldonbrown.com/images/canti.gif

I bought a Kona Jake the Snake last summer. It came with cantis. I use the bike for trail/night riding, plus shorter group rides with a spare set of road wheels. Love the bike but the braking was so poor it was almost dangerous. I replaced the brakes this fall with Deore V brakes and threw on some travel agents for good measure. Stops on a dime, on par with my regular road bike.

That's another smart way of dealing with the problem. Just watch the TAs for loss of power as they age.

No, man. I thought I made it clear that I used a drop bar (and hence road levers) but I used shimano 105 road levers on the drop bar for the cantilevers. I use linear pull mountain levers on a flat bar for my v-brake. This is not a cable pull issue, it's a cantilevers are weaker than v-brakes issue.

you can replace all the pads you want, but I'd rather have v-brakes with crappy pads than cantilevers with kool stops any day.

Tried this, believe me. I read all of the Sheldon article about 10 times, and the cool geometry article posted recently with the schematic and everything. I had to remove my fenders to "see" the cantilever arms to make sure they were aligned properly....still suck.

And the need for sudden housing bends hasn't even come up yet.

I'm not saying that some other brand might not be better, but v-brakes are just a better technology IMO...and you don't have to spend an extra $30 on pads to "get them to work acceptably".


According to the articles I've read, the exact opposite is actually true. Wide profile cantilevers have less mechanical advantage than low profiles, but supposedly have better "feel". I'd bet they still require spending $30 on decent pads to get any power out of them though.

I'd love to see a test of a set of cantilevers, with the best pads, adjusted with TLC vs. a $15 set of no-name v-brakes with stock pads, assembled by a kid in a test.

Dead technology.

The Kool Stops came with the brakes when I bought them for $40 new off ebay. It was the first time I had ever installed or adjusted cantis. Yes it did take me 45 minutes of TLC, which I always use when putting new components on my bikes. If they can stop a loaded tourer in all types of weather then they are acceptable to me dead or not. How old you btw?

The best cantis currently available are Tektro cr720 (http://www.tektro.com/02products/11qb.php).

You've apparently never used Paul's canti's.

How old you btw? I don't see the relevance here, but 28. I am not the best mechanic out there for sure, but I do have shop experience and some technical ability (i.e. - I know how to cut cables, lube threaded parts, tap bb's, adjust cup and cones, etc.).

If installing these things exceeds the ability of so many people, I see this as a disadvantage - not something I need to spend more time working with to master.


Cantis still exist because they're more versatile - you can tune them to trade clearance for power, which is great for cross. I can't argue with this, since a lot of people seem to like their cantilevers just fine.

My experience is just that these brakes require more technical expertise than probably 98% of cyclists have. I've just given up on them after seeing how a poorly adjusted v-brake can crush the power these things have after an hour of work.

Once again, this doesn't even touch on the idiocy of cantilevers requiring extra bends and threaded stops for barrel adjusters (when using road brake levers). Less power and more crap running along the housing to introduce more problems.

If installing these things exceeds the ability of so many people, I see this as a disadvantage - not something I need to spend more time working with to master.

I can't argue with this, since a lot of people seem to like their cantilevers just fine.

My experience is just that these brakes require more technical expertise than probably 98% of cyclists have. I've just given up on them after seeing how a poorly adjusted v-brake can crush the power these things have after an hour of work.

Once again, this doesn't even touch on the idiocy of cantilevers requiring extra bends and threaded stops for barrel adjusters (when using road brake levers). Less power and more crap running along the housing to introduce more problems.

Yes, I sort of agree with you, cantis are a little bit more difficult to setup. But it does depend on your experience and the quality of the cantilever brakes.

I recently converted a sport/touring bike from road calipers to cantis. I am using Avid Shortys. I can't believe how far along cantis have come since I used last had them on a bike 15 years ago.

I am amazed at how much easier the Avid Shortys were to setup. I cannot use linear pull (or V-brake) type because of the road STI lever. For now, these have plenty of stopping power and setup seems fine to me.

Again, one's perception or experience will be a factor. I have used Tektro disc brakes on a MTB bike, which were crap and I replaced them with Avid BB5s. I also have a set of Tektro road calipers on my commuter, not as good as Shimano calipers, but will stop the bike.

I think this should count as a troll attempt.

All I'm going to add is this; I've managed to send people over the handlebars, using stock Magna cantilever brakes (with kool-stop pads). Never been able to do it with the V-brakes.

I think this should count as a troll attempt. What are you basing that on exactly? Or were you referring to your own post and wanted to let us know that you were new to trolling and may need tips?

Actually, I was really just venting frustration but it has passed now...I've got brakes set up and am happy with them ;).

I think the horse is dead - I'll move on. ;)

What are you basing that on exactly? Or were you referring to your own post and wanted to let us know that you were new to trolling and may need tips?

Actually, I was really just venting frustration but it has passed now...I've got brakes set up and am happy with them ;).

I think the horse is dead - I'll move on. ;)

The important thing is that you're happy with your brakes now. I'd just suggest you keep an open mind on cantis and not let your specific experience with this specific setup lead you to make a generalized judgement on cantis. You can't ignore so many responses and posts from people who have canti setups that work just fine. I could have a brake setup that involved an iron bar jammed between the spokes. It might "stop me on a dime", but pure power isn't what I'm after. Someone with weak hands regularly descending a mountain on a heavy bike might want a different brake setup versus a strong-handed commuter on a light bike with fenders and a rear rack on flat roads.

Can we have more information on this setup?


this is the best brake setup i have ever had. road lever compatible, good pad clearance, gives on demand stoppies at speed with panniers on the back.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4178290410_45a9943729.jpg

Just based on using my cantis (oryx) after riding my MTB w/ BB7's or even my old (15 year old) roadie - cantis are definitely weaker. My Oryx's can't even compare to my MTB BB7's (and I know they aren't supposed to be comparable, just sayin).

Can we have more information on this setup?

The bracket looking thing is an old seat-bolt-mount cable hanger

http://www.beyondbikes.com/mmBEYONDBIKES/Images/1/medium/TK9232.jpg

with the bolt/washer from an old straddle hanger.

http://www.ride-this.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x265/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/D/C/DC1281_1.jpg

NB. converting a cantilever to a direct pull this way would ordinarily increase the mechanical advantage too much for the levers. By using the wide profile CR720 canti arms, the cable makes an acute angle with the arm reducing the MA to the right range again. It also makes it so that the mechanical advantage rises through the stroke, improving power and pad clearance.

The straddle cable goes over a roller mounted at the fork crown. It's a sliding door roller from the hardware store.

The effect is like a mini-V but with even smoother cable routing and more tire/mud clearance. It also eliminates steertube flex from the system, which can cause shuddering on cantilever systems esp. if you are large and have the cable hanger at the top a big long headtube.

The whole setup is similar in spirit to the old Cannondale "force 40" or Suntour "Power hanger" widgets from the early '90s, but those systems suffered from having too high a mechanical advantage (i.e. hardly any pad clearance and mushy feel) and not pulling both sides equally (pads wore unevenly, impossible to keep centered). Using a roller instead of a cam at the fork crown ensures both sides pull equally, and the wide profile arm in this configuration scales back the mechanical advantage.

No, man. I thought I made it clear that I used a drop bar (and hence road levers) but I used shimano 105 road levers on the drop bar for the cantilevers. I use linear pull mountain levers on a flat bar for my v-brake. This is not a cable pull issue, it's a cantilevers are weaker than v-brakes issue.DO NOT confuse clamping-force with braking-force. Just because you can generate the same braking-force with 1-finger on V-brakes compared to 2-fingers on canties, doesn't mean that you'll stop faster. The maximum-deceleration rate will still be limited by the tyre's friction on the ground. With either set-up, you'll still be able to generate enough clamping-force to lock up the rear tyre or send the rider over the bars with the front. With either type of brakes, under maximum-braking, you'll end up with exactly the same braking-distances. Just that you'll need to squeeze the cantis a little harder that's all.

The bracket looking thing is an old seat-bolt-mount cable hanger

http://www.beyondbikes.com/mmBEYONDBIKES/Images/1/medium/TK9232.jpg

with the bolt/washer from an old straddle hanger.

http://www.ride-this.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x265/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/D/C/DC1281_1.jpg

NB. converting a cantilever to a direct pull this way would ordinarily increase the mechanical advantage too much for the levers. By using the wide profile CR720 canti arms, the cable makes an acute angle with the arm reducing the MA to the right range again. It also makes it so that the mechanical advantage rises through the stroke, improving power and pad clearance.

The straddle cable goes over a roller mounted at the fork crown. It's a sliding door roller from the hardware store.

The effect is like a mini-V but with even smoother cable routing and more tire/mud clearance. It also eliminates steertube flex from the system, which can cause shuddering on cantilever systems esp. if you are large and have the cable hanger at the top a big long headtube.

The whole setup is similar in spirit to the old Cannondale "force 40" or Suntour "Power hanger" widgets from the early '90s, but those systems suffered from having too high a mechanical advantage (i.e. hardly any pad clearance and mushy feel) and not pulling both sides equally (pads wore unevenly, impossible to keep centered). Using a roller instead of a cam at the fork crown ensures both sides pull equally, and the wide profile arm in this configuration scales back the mechanical advantage.

How about posting some more pics with better lighting? The set up sounds great but my old eyes just can't make out all the detail. Sounds ingenious to me.

Um, maybe I'm an idiot, but aren't V-brakes just another form of cantilever brake? They just have a different cable arrangement. If you set them both up for a certain amount of pad movement for a given amount of lever movement, then they both should have *exactly* the same "stopping power".

Um, maybe I'm an idiot, but aren't V-brakes just another form of cantilever brake? They just have a different cable arrangement. If you set them both up for a certain amount of pad movement for a given amount of lever movement, then they both should have *exactly* the same "stopping power".

Vees are a form of anti, yes. But they're not really tuneable. They come set up for about 2x standard canti mechanical advantage. And are therefore paired with levers with half the mechanical advantage - the levers have to be this way as otherwise the pull would be too long to be practical.

Cantis ARE a pain to adjust for most people. Not because adjustment is hard, but because there isn't a decent guide on the net - unless you use the Wayback Machine to get Bontrager's article. But that has lost its pictures. The Brown guide is correct but very hard to follow.

Mini-Vees probably would suit most people better - although I don't think I've ever been impressed by the modulation on a v-brake.

The no name V-brakes on my sons $250 Diamondback are better than the fancy brand cantis that came on my Trek 930,950's. Easier to adjust and better stopping power.
Still cantis were/are worlds better than the best sidepull Campagonolo brakes vintage late 1970. Brakes were barely more than a suggestion back then.

Yes, canti brakes are not as good as V-brakes(and a pita to adjust), but they are OK if that is what you have on the bike. They stop pretty well, but not V-brake well, or disc well.

I took 15 years off from riding(1985-2000)-when I returned the brakes were easily the biggest difference. The 27 speed gearing was "who cares" same with index shifting, carbon fiber same/same, but the brakes- were many, many time better than the late 70's vintage stuff I used. The move back to sensibly wide tires and more upright riding position was good also(of course,I'm oldish.

I bought a Kona Jake the Snake last summer. It came with cantis. I use the bike for trail/night riding, plus shorter group rides with a spare set of road wheels. Love the bike but the braking was so poor it was almost dangerous. I replaced the brakes this fall with Deore V brakes and threw on some travel agents for good measure. Stops on a dime, on par with my regular road bike.

Yup. I test rode a Kona Jake with Avid 4 cantis. Horrible braking performance compared to linear pull let alone disc brakes. Just so it wasn't that particular bike, I took a different Jake out. Same deal. It just doesn't illicit confident stopping performance.

BTW, road bikes do come with linear dual pivot brakes which are way better than cantis. I know because it was the first thing I check when shopping for a roadie. I can only presume cantis still exist for some bikes especially CX is that mud don't gather on it as much as other brakes. However disc brakes pretty nullify that reason but weighs heavier.

I still maintain (as do people who have ever ridden a properly set up cantilever brake) that they stop just as well as any other brake out there, provided you have it set up right. I have never had a cantilever brake that can't be made to stop on a dime, with enough adjustment (well, one, but it was an old Mafac, and I still believe if i had several more years, I could get even that adjusted well).

The fact that they take a lot of effort to adjust is definitely a strike against them, and the fact that so many bikes come stock with brakes that do not work to the best of their capacity only enhances their reputation.

truthfully, I haven't met a half decent brake that can't be made to skid a tire with some coaxing. As I've said, even a crappy Magna brake can do a half decent job, braking power is most often limited by tire traction more than anything else.

Discs.

Not just for performance, but also for not having to watch wet road grit and dirt grind your rims into aluminum paste. When conditions get sketchy, the braking performance of a disc brake is simply superior to a rim brake.

I was reminded of this the last time I took my rim brakes out on a wet, nasty day, and the light in front of me turned red, with the cross traffic starting to move.

I agree with you 90%, fuzz2050. I have a bike with Campy Record sidepulls. I can stop very well with them, but it requires a lot of force with my hand. I understand that's a deal breaker for some people, and I respect that. But it is not true that using them is like a "suggestion" as phoebeisis says. phoebeisis, I think you are confusing hand effort with stopping power.

The 10% where I disagree with you, fuzz, is that some brakes don't stop me even with lots of effort. I just replaced my ancient Weinmann centerpulls with ancient Mafac centerpulls. Stopping power and modulability have both improved. The Weinmanns were just barely adequate. The Mafacs give me new confidence to go at high speeds with small clearances.

I also agree that cantilevers are hard to set up. I recently built a bike with them. The brakes work terrifically, and I wasn't as analytical as all these articles are. I suspect that my habit for setting them up is intuitively right. In other words, I know how to do it without being able to articulate it. I used cheapo Shimano cantilevers with the stock Shimano pads. The performance is extremely satisfying.

I think this should count as a troll attempt.

All I'm going to add is this; I've managed to send people over the handlebars, using stock Magna cantilever brakes (with kool-stop pads). Never been able to do it with the V-brakes.

I endoed hardcore this past summer. Damned bunny. I asked in the cyclocross forum, and should have come here. I have a cross bike on the way, and after trying out the cantis, will likely try to install (with Travel Agents, from what I hear) linears. They are SOLID on my flat bar roadie, and I am reading far too much about this outdated technology being fickle, difficult, and not at all as powerful as linears.

Cantis look interesting and there's a certain vintage nostalgia about them, so I don't want to knock them. I almost went with them on my CX setup, but thought better.
Cantis are difficult to setup and keep adjusted correctly, yes I know, I suck as a bike mechanic. It's easier to just give up on them, but if you have a nice pair on an old bike then maybe stick with them.
There is NO reason, however, to go out and buy a cantilever brake. The parallel push of a Shimano XT or XTR simply destroys Cantis in feel and power. This is also the easiest brake to set up on the face of the planet, never goes out of adjustment and starts rubbing randomly like sidepulls and cantis do. This was the most annoying thing about cantis and side pulls. You nudge them slightly pulling them out of the car or at the bike rack and they're off rubbing. Maybe you guys would like to debate that such and such properly setup Canti works well or has good stopping power, but all in all good V brakes are better.

Oh, and for drop bars, Tekro 520 levers are $20 on ebay and give a nice linear pull. I'll be welding studs on the rear soon so I can get ride of that annoying side pull.

One of these days, I'll make and post a video on how to center sidepull brakes. When you do it properly, by equalizing the spring tension, you won't need to do it again for a long time. I've looked, and I don't find such a video.

Single pivot sidepull brakes are the only brake that doesn't require readjustment of the pad placement after the pad wears. Once you do it right, it stays right.

Oryx with separate straddle cable and yoke on the centre cable is real easy to set up for all the power you want. Front fender will stop straddle cable dropping onto tire.

I suppose because I grew up with cantis, I've never understood the difficulties that people have with adjusting them properly.
I like my CR720s. Unlike a sidepull, I don't ever worry about the tire/fender clearance. With a V-brake, I wouldn't be able to use my VO Randonneur rack and Berthoud frontbag because the placement of the rack & bag would interfere with the tops of the brake arms and the cable routing.
Are they the strongest brakes out there? Maybe not.
Do they stop my fat arse coming down a 15% grade with a 45mph 4-lane crossing at the bottom? Yeah.

My main gripe is with cantis with "smooth" posts (well, they're often knurled in some way..). Having all axles of adjustment loose at once tended to make me wish for a 3rd hand. Not that I know if I'd been able to get those fingers as well in close enough to be useful though....
If I'd had cantis with threaded posts I don't think I'd been that eager to switch to Vs. Never had an issue with the braking power as such, apart from during foul weather rides when my hands got cold enough to begin to lose strength.
Come to think of it, while I ran a max power with really low straddle cable setup, I was a bit worried about the main cable coming apart and the straddle cable hooking onto the tire. But that fear was manageable with frequent inspections

My main gripe is with cantis with "smooth" posts (well, they're often knurled in some way..). Having all axles of adjustment loose at once tended to make me wish for a 3rd hand. Not that I know if I'd been able to get those fingers as well in close enough to be useful though....
If I'd had cantis with threaded posts I don't think I'd been that eager to switch to Vs. Never had an issue with the braking power as such, apart from during foul weather rides when my hands got cold enough to begin to lose strength.

Even the threaded post shoes are a PiTA to adjust. The main benefit from swapping the Oryx to the CR720 was going from threaded post to cartridge pads. I set the pad holders once and haven't needed to adjust them since. Pad insert are cheap as heck ($6-ish bucks) so I don't mind that I replace them more often instead of readjusting things to get the "full lifespan" out of them. I'll deal with buying 3 pairs a year; the $36.00 isn't going to bankrupt me.

Ok, revisited: I'm missing my drop bar and am going to try to set up the oryx once again. I tested a set of these guys on a bike built by someone much better than me at adjusting canti's, and was surprised at their power.

Problem identified? Me.

I'm going to try to space the pads (bought new v-brake pads) close to the rims, such that the brake arms will be more vertical when the pads are engaged than for my first set-up. After reading about low-profile cantilever set-up it seems like this is pretty important for power....actually, several of you said this but I was too angry and ignorant to listen ;).

Anyone have a pic of their oryx set up correctly - both at rest and engaged?

I apologize for my rant: I'll keep an open mind about this and get it right.

I use them and they work. They take a little more hand pressure that dual pivots, but they stop the bike even with a load.

If you do want V brakes they can be used on drops. Just need a set of V brake levers. Or if you are using STI dual controls you can use Tektro RX 5 Mini-Vs or something similar.