Bicycle Mechanics - Shimano to Campy what do I need to change?

Hi,

Basically I am toying with the idea of switching my shimano hybrid components for a campy setup. I figured I'd need a campy 10 speed cassette which is splined for the shimano freehub (found one :D) but what about derailleurs?

I read somewhere that the derailleur doesn't matter as it is the shifter than controls the cable pull - is this true?

At the moment my bike has:

FRONT DERAILLEUR
Shimano FD-M310, 31.8mm clamp

REAR DERAILLEUR
Shimano Alivio RD-M410

CASSETTE FREEWHEEL
SRAM PG-830, 8-speed, 11-32t

CHAINRINGS
48Ax36Sx26S, Super Shifter III, w/ chainguard

BOTTOM BRACKET
Shimano BB-UN-25, cartridge bearing, 68 x 113mm

So:
- do I need a new front and/or rear derailleur?
- if so will a campy triple front derailleur work with the chainrings I have (the campy min is 30t, capacity 22t)?
- would a jtek shiftmate for the front derailleur sort out any shifting problems? It seems that the jtek straight 7s will convert a campy shifter to a shimano derailleur and mtb cranks.

Is there anything else that I am missing?

Thanks

Daven

It's not true that only the shifters control the indexing. The shifters, RD and cog spacing should all be matched, ideally. What 10 speed shifters would be used? This conversion makes no sense to me.

10 speed campy shifters - not sure which model yet (probably the cheapest!) So basically I need a campy 10 speed rear derailleur too?

Basically I want to swap my current set up for 10 speed campy shifters, a 10 speed cassette, and perhaps now a campy rear derailleur and use my current cranks and front derailleur.

It's not true that only the shifters control the indexing. The shifters, RD and cog spacing should all be matched, ideally. What 10 speed shifters would be used? This conversion makes no sense to me.

Why would the RD need to be changed? This doesn't make sense. Think about it: does the derailleur move in set increments, corresponding to some specific spacing? No, the cable pulls it, and the amount the cable pulls the RD is dictated by the shifter, whatever brand it is.

That is what I thought! So my shimano derailleur should work with the new campy cassette? If so then I am very happy!

Whats your reasoning for campy stuff? Is it cuz the campy levers look cleaner and route beneath the bar tape? If so, you can probably save some cash and buy a shimano 10 speed cassette throw it on your hub (if it is compatible), 10 speed chain, proper jtek device, and campy ergo levers. Then you dont have to shell out cash for an expensive campy cassette and rear derailleur.

What kind of hybrid is it? If it has lower end components, I'mnot sure if it is worth putting campy on it??

My reasoning is that campy levers are cheaper than shimano. At the moment I have bar end shifters but have always preferred the brifters. It has fairly low end components but as I said they won't be expensive campy levers. The campy cassette would be £30 and as mentioned above the rear derailleur shouldn't matter and I will get a jtek for the front derailleur.

hmm.. if cost is your main objective, i still think what i mentioned might be the cheapest way to go. Also, the pull on derailleurs are different from campy, to certain srams, to shimanos. Most all shimanos require the same pull with the exception of the shimano dura ace pre-1997 ones and maybe the newest 6700/7900 series.
If you go to the jtek website, you'll see the different combinations of derailleur/shifter makes/models.

That is what I thought! So my shimano derailleur should work with the new campy cassette? If so then I am very happy!

NO. Dave is correct. The distance that a rear derailleur travels for each shifter click depends on two mechanical variables, shifter cable pull and derailleur actuation ratio. Between Shimano and Campy they are both different. To make the change you would need new Campy shifters, rear derailleur, and a campy spaced cassette. The cassette would need a campy compatible freehub or would need to be a Shimano splined/Campy spaced conversion cassette.
I don't think you have anything to gain by this conversion unless your hands are very small. Campy Ergo fits smaller hands better than STI.

Al

Why would the RD need to be changed? This doesn't make sense. Think about it: does the derailleur move in set increments, corresponding to some specific spacing? No, the cable pulls it, and the amount the cable pulls the RD is dictated by the shifter, whatever brand it is.

You need to think about it, not me.

You're overlooking a very important part of the sytem - the RD actuation ratio. Every brand uses a different cable pull amount, even if the RD shifts to the same cog spacing. For example, SRAM shifters pull 3.1mm of cable and Shimano only pulls 2.3mm, but the both shift the same 3.95mm cog spacing. That's because the RD acutation ratio is different. Campy 10 pulls an average 2.8mm to shift to 4.15mm spacing.

You absolutely must match the shifter to the RD or use a J-tek shiftmate to correct the cable pull.

To add more about this, there may be problems with the Campy shifter operating a Shimano triple FD. It's no problem with a double, but a triple needs more positioning control. I once tried a Shimano DA triple FD with my Campy triple and it did not work well at all. I never could get it to shift properly.

Campy triple FD's aren't designed to shift chainrings that small, but who knows, it might work.

Why are you investing this much work & equipment into a hybrid? Sounds to me like you need to buy a new bike :lol:

Ok thanks for all the help guys. What I have to gain by this conversion is that at the moment I have bar end shifters and cane creek levers (both of which I have never really liked!). I much prefer integrated shifters and brake levers.

I think I may choose to use Jtek shiftmates instead of start changing derailleurs as it will be easier (especially for the front due to chainring sizes). There is specifically a jtek shiftmate to mate a campy shifter with a shimano mtb front derailleur whic is exactly what I have.

Also I want campy instead of shimano as I already have shimano and want to see what all the fuss is about!

Thanks for the clarification there Dave, it makes sense I guess that the RD isn't continuous movement - shame though!

Why are you investing this much work & equipment into a hybrid? Sounds to me like you need to buy a new bike :lol:

Because I have come this far!! I have already converted it, and if I continue this then I will still be able to move the equipment to another bike if necessary. I think of it more as an investment than an outlay that is lost.

Are you putting brifters on a flat bar? :eek:

Because I have come this far!! I have already converted it, and if I continue this then I will still be able to move the equipment to another bike if necessary. I think of it more as an investment than an outlay that is lost.

Good luck with this. It sounds like a lot of time and expense to turn a perfectly fine Shimano set-up into a briftered Campy/Shimano/Jtek frankenbike, with money that could be better put toward a used Campy equipped road bike, given that it can be tricky enough to sort out shifting issues in a factory spec gruppo.

That said, I look forward to hearing about how this works out, so post some pics when you finally get this completed and ready to ride.

Are you putting brifters on a flat bar? :eek:

LOL no, I already have drop bars on it.


Good luck with this. It sounds like a lot of time and expense to turn a perfectly fine Shimano set-up into a briftered Campy/Shimano/Jtek frankenbike, with money that could be better put toward a used Campy equipped road bike, given that it can be tricky enough to sort out shifting issues in a factory spec gruppo.

That said, I look forward to hearing about how this works out, so post some pics when you finally get this completed and ready to ride.

If I bought a road bike that matched what I wanted it would cost at least £1000, this hasn't cost that yet! For me the fun of doing the conversions and the things I learn from it are worth far more than the resale value of the bike (not to mention the hassle of selling it).

For simplicity's sake, let's just start calling it a road bike now.
I'd say that you'll likely need to buy brifters and f+r derailleurs plus cassette or shiftmate.
I'm partway through an S to C transformation and am considering using Campy spacers in a 9 speed Shimano cassette.
I already have the 9sp brifters, derailleurs, and campy cassette (all received as donation :)).
This page (http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html) has some useful specs for Shimano/Campy cassettes. The numbers for 10sp don't look as good as 9 for lining things up.

Thanks, at the moment I am leaning towards just getting the brifters and a couple of shiftmates. Allows me to keep all my stuff while trying out campy shifters :D

Thanks, at the moment I am leaning towards just getting the brifters and a couple of shiftmates. Allows me to keep all my stuff while trying out campy shifters :D

That might be your best bet. Then if you like it invest in the complete group later. Are you sure you need another Shiftmate for the front? Campy doesn't use an indexed front like Shimano. They are more like a friction or microfriction as some call it. Good luck on the project and don't forget to post some photos of the finished project.

Thanks cs1, after looking at the price of the front shiftmate (£40!!!) I figured I will just try the campy front shifter, if it works then great, if not I will just use a friction bar end on that side as I hardly touch the FD - I just hate using the bar end for the RD as I like to shift a lot! It actually works out cheaper to get the campy shifters and a shiftmate than it would to just get 8 speed shimano shifters! Also I don't like sora so...!

I will make sure I post finished pictures :)

One more thing. You don't need a Campy spaced cassette on your Shimano freehub. You can use a Shimano 10-speed cassette and Shimano rear derailleur and use the appropriate Shiftmate to match them with Campy brifters.

As noted, there is no need for a Shiftmate for front shifting. Campy front Ergos have multiple small clicks rather than distinct indexing clicks so they can work with nearly any front derailleur and crank combination.

Thanks :) I have decided to keep my shimano stuff and get a shiftmate so I can use a 9 speed shifter with my 8 speed cassette - this saves a fair chunk of cash :)

if you are looking to move this stuff eventually and you buy a front derailleur with the intent that you will be moving it over as well, keep in mind that front derailleurs come in different flavors.... braze-on, clamp-on 28.6, clamp-on 31.8, etc... what might fit on this bike may not fit on your next...

Well it isn't really being bought to move to another bike at any point, I just know that I can if the need arises. However I won't be buying any derailleurs right now but if I did move to another bike I'd probably drop the shiftmate and get a 9 speed cassette.

My reasoning is that campy levers are cheaper than shimano.

That's an .. unusual .. situation. How much cheaper?

Considerably. I got a 9 speed campy xenon set for £60 delivered and the cheapest I could even think about getting shimano sora for was around £102. Sure they are budget shifters but so are the soras.

As you can see that £42 difference disappears in a hurry. I bet you end spending more.

But with the shimano levers I'd also need a £40 shiftmate for the front derailleur or a new derailleur or a new crank.

Here we go - pictures as promised. I went with avid BB5 road disc brakes in the end and these are a HUGE improvement over the MTB disc brakes + v-brake drop bar levers. The bike rides like a dream now, so I think the upgrades were worth it. Had a maiden voyage yesterday (20 mile round trip) and it felt great :) shifting was smooth and brakes were top notch (it was raining too :D)

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Why would the RD need to be changed? This doesn't make sense. Think about it: does the derailleur move in set increments, corresponding to some specific spacing? No, the cable pulls it, and the amount the cable pulls the RD is dictated by the shifter, whatever brand it is.
The geometry of each manufacturer's der. is different so that you either need an adaptor or their shifter to work.

Thanks :) I have decided to keep my shimano stuff and get a shiftmate so I can use a 9 speed shifter with my 8 speed cassette - this saves a fair chunk of cash :)

This doesn't make much sense to me. The money you would spend on a Shiftmate could go toward a 9-speed cassette and chain.

The geometry of each manufacturer's der. is different so that you either need an adaptor or their shifter to work.

Conversion is already done. Not sure what you were replying to.

This doesn't make much sense to me. The money you would spend on a Shiftmate could go toward a 9-speed cassette and chain.

Go towards, being the operative words. Don't forget a new rear derailleur too. What you said doesn't make sense to me. Either way, it is done and people asked me to post pictures when finished so I did.

Go towards, being the operative words. Don't forget a new rear derailleur too. What you said doesn't make sense to me. Either way, it is done and people asked me to post pictures when finished so I did.

You would not need a new RD. Your 8-speed derailleurs would work perfectly with a 9-speed cassette and chain. Nine speeds would give you much better cassette selection with closer ratios. Your 8-speed cassette will need to be replaced sooner or later and 9-speeds are much more common, easier to find, and easier to customize.

You would not need a new RD. Your 8-speed derailleurs would work perfectly with a 9-speed cassette and chain. Nine speeds would give you much better cassette selection with closer ratios. Your 8-speed cassette will need to be replaced sooner or later and 9-speeds are much more common, easier to find, and easier to customize.

Read earlier in the thread to find out why this wouldn't work. I had thought it would at first and was going to do exactly as you described.

Read earlier in the thread to find out why this wouldn't work. I had thought it would at first and was going to do exactly as you described.

Ok, I got confused. If your shifters are Campy you do need the Shiftmate. But you could have gone 9-speed with a different Shiftmate.