Bicycle Mechanics - Please guys... learn to build your own wheels.

As bicycle mechanics, our wrenching gives us a lot of enjoyment and saves us money too. But one thing that many mechanics shy away from is wheel building... dunno why... but maybe it is just too intimidating for many folks. But wheel building isn't rocket science and building your own can save you some money. I've found that building my own wheels doesn't really save me that much money on new wheel sets... but it allows me to get exactly the wheels that I want for a given purpose without the expense of going to a custom builder.

But where wheel building can really save you a ton of money is in allowing you to repair and reuse parts that would otherwise go into the junk pile. I often run into wheels that have great hubs and tapped out rims... or great wheel sets that only need to be reworked and re-tensioned.

Example:
I was in my LBS last Saturday buying some parts when in comes a guy carrying a set of used wheels.

He told the shop guy, "These are the wheels that I replaced with that set that I bought from you... you guys want them?"

Shop guy: "Nah... we'd just throw them away if you leave them here."
Wheel guy: "Well, they won't stay true... so they're no good to me."

So I figured that I'd offer the guy a few dollars on the off chance that I could scavenge some parts from the wheels. He refused to take any money and gave them to me... pointing to where they sat across the room.

After the guy left, the shop guys told me about how they'd worked on those wheels several times and couldn't make them behave. Hmmm...

I grabbed the wheels as I left the shop, and discovered that these weren't the crappy wheels that I'd expected. Barely worn Mavic Open Pro rims laced to almost new Ultegra hubs... and he'd left a brand new set of Hutchinson Fusion tires installed!

When I got around to inspecting them at length, I discovered that about half of the nipples were rounded off... no wonder they couldn't be adjusted.

So I replaced all of the nipples... loosened the tension all around the wheels... and started tightening up everything just like I was building a new wheel.

It looked like someone started trying to true these wheels and ended up getting the spokes so tight that the nipples started to round off, and they didn't know how to recover and make the wheel right. So the only thing wrong with the wheels is that they were an unevenly tensioned mess because neither the shop mechanics nor the owner knew how to build or properly true a wheel.

I ended up with a like new set of top shelf wheels for the price of a handful of nipples and a couple of hours of work.

So guys... learn to build your own wheels. Think about it. If you don't know how to adjust a derailleur, it costs you $15 or $20 to have it done for you. Don't know how to adjust a headset? $10. But if you don't know how to fix a wheel... like this guy... it can cost you hundreds of dollars.

Cool story bro

As bicycle mechanics, our wrenching gives us a lot of enjoyment and saves us money too. But one thing that many mechanics shy away from is wheel building... dunno why... but maybe it is just too intimidating for many folks. But wheel building isn't rocket science and building your own can save you some money. I've found that building my own wheels doesn't really save me that much money on new wheel sets... but it allows me to get exactly the wheels that I want for a given purpose without the expense of going to a custom builder.

But where wheel building can really save you a ton of money is in allowing you to repair and reuse parts that would otherwise go into the junk pile. I often run into wheels that have great hubs and tapped out rims... or great wheel sets that only need to be reworked and re-tensioned.

Example:
I was in my LBS last Saturday buying some parts when in comes a guy carrying a set of used wheels.

He told the shop guy, "These are the wheels that I replaced with that set that I bought from you... you guys want them?"

Shop guy: "Nah... we'd just throw them away if you leave them here."
Wheel guy: "Well, they won't stay true... so they're no good to me."

So I figured that I'd offer the guy a few dollars on the off chance that I could scavenge some parts from the wheels. He refused to take any money and gave them to me... pointing to where they sat across the room.

After the guy left, the shop guys told me about how they'd worked on those wheels several times and couldn't make them behave. Hmmm...

I grabbed the wheels as I left the shop, and discovered that these weren't the crappy wheels that I'd expected. Barely worn Mavic Open Pro rims laced to almost new Ultegra hubs... and he'd left a brand new set of Hutchinson Fusion tires installed!

When I got around to inspecting them at length, I discovered that about half of the nipples were rounded off... no wonder they couldn't be adjusted.

So I replaced all of the nipples... loosened the tension all around the wheels... and started tightening up everything just like I was building a new wheel.

It looked like someone started trying to true these wheels and ended up getting the spokes so tight that the nipples started to round off, and they didn't know how to recover and make the wheel right. So the only thing wrong with the wheels is that they were an unevenly tensioned mess because neither the shop mechanics nor the owner knew how to build or properly true a wheel.

I ended up with a like new set of top shelf wheels for the price of a handful of nipples and a couple of hours of work.

So guys... learn to build your own wheels. Think about it. If you don't know how to adjust a derailleur, it costs you $15 or $20 to have it done for you. Don't know how to adjust a headset? $10. But if you don't know how to fix a wheel... like this guy... it can cost you hundreds of dollars.

When I was applying for a job as a mechanic at a certain shop, I told them I knew how to build wheels. The owner told me in certain words that it was a "neat" skill to have, but it was an outdated skill. I think this stems from the fact that as a business man, he's rather sell new prebuilt wheels rather than have a customer spend labor time for a build. All he sees are problems, ordering and stocking rims and spokes, calculating spoke length, etc. If a procedure takes more than a couple turns of a 5mm hex, they're offended and label it as not being cost effective. The customer you got your wheels form is a prime example of this philosophy. Today, many shops figure the customers are ignorant, and are happy for them to remain ignorant.
About your story, one funny part is that even at less ideal circumstance, where you'd have to completely replace the spokes and nipples, you'd be looking at spending maybe $70 at the most. I wonder what the customer paid for the replacement set?
If I was the selfish type, I'd encourage people to NOT learn to build wheels. It makes those of us who know look like freaking magicians.

Don't listen to this guy. Wheel building really is black voodoo magic and should only be done by us witches for a high price. :D

Seriously, if you can count to 4, you can build a set of wheels.

$5 bet, someone used the wrong sized spoke wrench on the nipples.

the black and green handle spoke wrenches seem like they fit the same sizes... but they don't.

the black and green handle spoke wrenches seem like they fit the same sizes... but they don't.
Worse than that, the red wrench from one brand is not the same as the red from another brand.

You know, if I bite the bullet and buy a Park TS-2 truing stand like the guys in the other thread recommend, you know I'll be building my own wheels.

Worse than that, the red wrench from one brand is not the same as the red from another brand.

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Worse than that, the red wrench from one brand is not the same as the red from another brand.

Very true. The color codes do not correlate from one brand to another.

$5 bet, someone used the wrong sized spoke wrench on the nipples.

the black and green handle spoke wrenches seem like they fit the same sizes... but they don't.

You're probably right. I once went into my VERY LOCAL Trek dealership (not my preferred shop) and asked them what spoke wrench I needed to true up the road wheels on my trek 2300...The guy smiled and handed me the red/blue Park wrench (the 42) and said, "this one will work for basically all road wheels." I didn't think twice about trusting this guy as at that point I didn't know any better. I did however wonder why I was always ALMOST rounding off the nipples that I needed to adjust (thankfully they're brass and I was being very mindful of it) and it wasn't until 2 years later in my wheel building research that I found out how wretched his advice was. It wasn't even ALMOST correct...but TWO sizes too large for my need. Idiot. This is the shop that's seriously like 4 blocks from my house...but aside from little piddly parts and emergency issues, I happily drive 10 miles or so to the shop in the next small city for my bike shop needs. I agree with the original post though, and hope to find a similar opportunity someday. =) Excellent work.

-Jeremy

So, is there a good wheel building guide for noobs? I mean, like really from the basics? I was always intimidated by this task. I built my own bike and can take pretty much anything apart now from a headset, BB to freehub body but I still feel uneasy about building wheels. I imagine this as very frustrating task that can have catastrophic consequences if done wrong.

Adam

When I got around to inspecting them at length, I discovered that about half of the nipples were rounded off... no wonder they couldn't be adjusted. So I replaced all of the nipples... loosened the tension all around the wheels... and started tightening up everything just like I was building a new wheel.

How did you remove these nipples since the edges were rounded off? Did you use a flathead from the bottom of the nipple, or are there other tricks?

Any info you can share would be very helpful.

mike t's site or sheldons page is good enough.

I found this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
Who is Mike T? Any links?

Adam

http://www.miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.htm

I imagine this as very frustrating task that can have catastrophic consequences if done wrong.

Actually, I find wheel building to be very relaxing. I put my favorite tunes on the radio and twiddle away on a wheel. It's sort of like my version of knitting.

And no... your mistakes will not be automatically catastrophic. You have to REALLY screw up to have a wheel just fold up and collapse on you.

How did you remove these nipples since the edges were rounded off? Did you use a flathead from the bottom of the nipple, or are there other tricks?

Yep. Unmount the tire and get at 'em that way. And used pliers to get some slack on the ones that were bottomed out until I could get into the nipple slot.

Actually, I find wheel building to be very relaxing. I put my favorite tunes on the radio and twiddle away on a wheel. It's sort of like my version of knitting.

And no... your mistakes will not be automatically catastrophic. You have to REALLY screw up to have a wheel just fold up and collapse on you.

Haha! That's exactly what my girlfriend says when I'm building wheels. "Are you knitting again?"

alternatively, just cut the spoke with a grinder if the spoke is completely fused with the nipple.

Thanks for the link. I feel encouraged. I need to do some reading now:)

Edit: I just looked at JensonUSA and PricePoint and it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me moneywise to build your own weheels from scratch. If you already own some parts or want to refresh old wheels then perhaps it's worth it. But ready built wheels from LBS or online vendors will be cheaper.

But then, of course, there is the satisfaction aspect of doing it yourself :)

Adam

yea you are right. it is not worth it to build you own wheels. these wheelsets you see are almost always machine built. they are not checked by humans before they get boxed up. i buy prebuilt wheels all the time and check tension, true before i use them. some even detention and rebuild them

Thanks for the link. I feel encouraged. I need to do some reading now:)

Edit: I just looked at JensonUSA and PricePoint and it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me moneywise to build your own weheels from scratch. If you already own some parts or want to refresh old wheels then perhaps it's worth it. But ready built wheels from LBS or online vendors will be cheaper.

But then, of course, there is the satisfaction aspect of doing it yourself :)

Adam

And let those links lead you down the wrong path. Not one mentions a tensionmeter. Want to be worthy of calling yourself a professional wheelbuilder or mechanic? Those guides won't take you there.

I just looked at JensonUSA and PricePoint and it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me moneywise to build your own weheels from scratch. If you already own some parts or want to refresh old wheels then perhaps it's worth it.

Or you can do what I do. I'm always on the lookout for high quality parts for a bargain price. My favorite catches are 1st or 2nd generation Dura Ace hubs... or early Ultegra hubs. I usually can snag a nice Dura Ace hub for less than $25. Then I rebuild them with new bearings for about $2 (I buy Grade 25 bearings in bulk on eBay) and lace them to nice top shelf rims. I use only new high quality name brand spokes. I regularly see people paying $1000 or more for wheel sets that are inferior to the ones that I build for under $200. I own 11 bikes, and wheel building allows me to put exceptional wheels on each and every bike.


yea you are right. it is not worth it to build you own wheels. these wheelsets you see are almost always machine built. they are not checked by humans before they get boxed up. i buy prebuilt wheels all the time and check tension, true before i use them. some even detention and rebuild them

So you hit on the number one reason that I build my own wheels. I don't trust their wheels. I am very picky about how my wheels are built... I want it done right. Machine built wheels are rarely destressed properly and the spokes aren't seated properly. It drives me crazy to see someone ride off on a new wheel set amid a symphony of pings and pops. My wheels don't ping. Never. Ever. I consider it a personal failure if they ping.

And let those links lead you down the wrong path. Not one mentions a tensionmeter. Want to be worthy of calling yourself a professional wheelbuilder or mechanic?

Don't own a tensionmeter. Don't need one. And most of the wheels that we will build for normal use won't require one. If you're building some ultra lightweight wheels with carbon stuff, then your tension becomes more important. But for about 90% of us... a tensionmeter isn't at all necessary.

But that's a whole 'nother thread...

But for about 90% of us... a tensionmeter isn't at all necessary.
.

100% false

100% false

*sigh*

Yeah, Operator... you keep on telling people that they can't build wheels unless they empty their wallets buying lots of expensive gear. Cause owning lots of special stuff makes you a professional mechanic.

But I'll tell them the truth...

100% true actually. I've done a good dozen wheelsets without a tensionometer and they are all ran or are running well. But I do use other techniques to check for a balanced set of spokes. The simple act of pinging the spoke with a screwdriver handle and noting the musical note actually works pretty well for one.

Yeah, yeah, I know... you've built hundreds of wheels compared to my dozen sets. And I don't doubt that it is better. But required? No. Lots of us have "beaten the odds" and built wheels that lasted up to sidewall failure due to brake pad wear.




AdamDZ, jump on in, the water is just fine... :D And the best advice I can give you thanks to still remembering my own first halting steps is to only do one wheel at a time and have the other one sitting along side as a reference for the spoke crossings. And Sheldon's page was my Bible for the first builds.

As it turns out my first ever build has just gotten to where the rear is worn on the brake track so far that I need to replace the rim. It has lasted over 10 years of riding (I've got 5 to 7 bikes at any one time so that's why it took so long) with very little requirement for tuning to correct any slight wobbles. Given that it was my off road set for the first few years and then saw duty as a sloppy weather winter commuter I sure as heck can't complain.

Yes doing it from scratch isn't as cheap as a factory wheel. But spend a little more and use good components such as butted spokes instead of straight gauge and good nipples and choose your rims from the better for the buck and you'll have a wheelset that is far better than the budget options. I "built" my last wheels by buying the inexpensive Ebay option and frankly I'm sorry I did. They've needed some spoke wrench attention a couple of times already and are not the lightest I could have gotten. Next time I'll happily pay the extra $50 to $70 to get into a better mid price setup and do the work myself.

I have also likened wheel building to knitting. Very relaxing and enjoyable.

I was at a choral rehearsal, and the woman two seats over from me had her knitting out. I was envious, because I couldn't bring a wheel to rehearsal with me. It would be too dirty, and it would take up too much room.

I did bring a wheel I was building to a dorm meeting, in freshman year in college. People were intrigued, but I just kept on going.

Yea, we should all learn to build wheels because it's easy, enjoyable and can save some money. Unless you don't (a) actually enjoy it (b) would rather spend your time working or on other recreation/hobbies or (c) consider your own time to be more valuable than the time of the guy building the wheels for you or the cost of good quality pre-built wheels.

There's a million tasks I COULD do, but don't choose to for one or more of the above reasons. I can do most things mechanically on my bike but there are times when I drop it off to have it done. Same is true for most of the plumbing, electrical, carpentry, car mechanics, that I could do, but don't want to.

I might try it some day, but there's about 1 million things I'd rather do with my time, and so far I've been absolutely perfectly happy with pre-built wheels, price and performance.

Yep. Unmount the tire and get at 'em that way. And used pliers to get some slack on the ones that were bottomed out until I could get into the nipple slot.

Thanks!

I've done that (although the plier method often ends up tearing the nipple apart, which gets frustrating). I've cut the spoke as well, and have tried the PB Penetrating Catalyst and patience approach also. Any additional tricks for the non-destructive removing of seized spoke nipples would be most welcome, although I have a feeling there may be limited options.

I think the point to be made here really is, when you know how to build your own wheels you most likely can maintain them properly too. There's many a time I've seen guys buy a spoke wrench attack their wheels with it and end up turning their wheels into unridable, overtensioned potato chips that most of the time just needed a little truing and re-tensioning. I think that building your own wheels can help you develop a feel on how to deal with most wheel truing, tensioning and dishing issues that might come up with your bikes.
I myself just got done totally buidling my first wheelset from scratch last week. Bought a "Spin Doctor" home wheel truing stand (for a paltry 52 bucks on sale at the local PBS) and it worked out pretty well for me. Used to just lace my wheels up and leave it to the LBS to true tension and dish my wheels, but by doing that, I was still pretty much "wheel illiterate" other than knowing how to lace a 3 cross pattern.
Next week I'll be truing and retensionig every bicycle wheel I can find in the house and it will feel real good doing it for sure! I too thought that building a wheel is a scary black art that I could never handle, but I found out that all it took was a lot of patience and a basic understanding of geometry and a little physics, plus enough self resistance to keep yourself from just start wrenching away at the spokes with your spoke wrench. Just take things in half and quarter turns and you will most likely not overdo things and remember to back off a bit if you start feeling that you're overtensioning the spokes, which is the problem with most people trying to deal with their wheels mechanically for the first time.
JMOs!

Chombi
84 Peugeot PSV
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7 - Now with new Mavic GEL280 wheelset built by me!

So you hit on the number one reason that I build my own wheels. I don't trust their wheels. I am very picky about how my wheels are built... I want it done right. Machine built wheels are rarely destressed properly and the spokes aren't seated properly. It drives me crazy to see someone ride off on a new wheel set amid a symphony of pings and pops. My wheels don't ping. Never. Ever. I consider it a personal failure if they ping.

+1

I first started building wheels mostly out of bike geekery, to be honest, but after noticing the difference on my own bikes I wouldn't have it any other way.

I was envious, because I couldn't bring a wheel to rehearsal with me. It would be too dirty, and it would take up too much room.

:roflmao2:

So I'll look around for some good deals. If I can find decent parts cheaply enough I may try building my new wheels.

Adam

Don't own a tensionmeter. Don't need one. And most of the wheels that we will build for normal use won't require one. If you're building some ultra lightweight wheels with carbon stuff, then your tension becomes more important. But for about 90% of us... a tensionmeter isn't at all necessary.

But that's a whole 'nother thread...

Time to break out the pop corn.

Or you can do what I do. I'm always on the lookout for high quality parts for a bargain price. My favorite catches are 1st or 2nd generation Dura Ace hubs... or early Ultegra hubs. I usually can snag a nice Dura Ace hub for less than $25. Then I rebuild them with new bearings for about $2 (I buy Grade 25 bearings in bulk on eBay) and lace them to nice top shelf rims. I use only new high quality name brand spokes. I regularly see people paying $1000 or more for wheel sets that are inferior to the ones that I build for under $200. I own 11 bikes, and wheel building allows me to put exceptional wheels on each and every bike.



So you hit on the number one reason that I build my own wheels. I don't trust their wheels. I am very picky about how my wheels are built... I want it done right. Machine built wheels are rarely destressed properly and the spokes aren't seated properly. It drives me crazy to see someone ride off on a new wheel set amid a symphony of pings and pops. My wheels don't ping. Never. Ever. I consider it a personal failure if they ping.

Yes, the hubs appear to be most expensive parts. If I could get them cheaply like you said it'd make more sense.

Adam

*sigh*

Yeah, Operator... you keep on telling people that they can't build wheels unless they empty their wallets buying lots of expensive gear. Cause owning lots of special stuff makes you a professional mechanic.

But I'll tell them the truth...

I'd suggest.... if one is building them for themselves sans time constraints.. and the expectations of a paying customer.. the tool isn't a priority.

Butttt.. if one is building them vs the clock..for paying customers who expect results... the tool would pay for itself. Uniform results.. everybody is happy and gets the same quality work.

Seems to me prudent if one has the time to mess with wheel building to learn.... but recreational building and doing it professionally are different games.

A tensionmeter isn't about time. It's about accuracy. I think Hydrated is pretty close. When you're building with heavy, eyeleted rims and a lot of spokes, the acceptable tension range is so vast that you can guess and be well within the limits of a sound build. When you start working with lighter rims (requires lower tension) and fewer spokes (requires higher tension) your margin of error gets dramatically smaller.

So I gathered so far, the best way to start is with strong/heavier rims and thicker 32 or 36 spokes, right? Which suits me well because I want superstrong 26 wheels for my commuter (tourer-to-be) and the weight is not an issue for me. In the worst case scenario I'll take it to the LBS to have it finished. They already know I'm an inspiring home mechanic and already helped me a few times :)

What are good rims for such a purpose then? I read that Wheelsmith spokes and nipples are the strongest.

And finally: are sealed hubs really worth the xtra $$$? Mind you, I won't go on world trip any time soon. The most I may do is week or two weeks trips around NY State for now, plus my usual commute so I can easily overhaul the bearings if needed. Thanks!

Adam

sapim, dt or wheel smith spokes. sealed or looseball hubs is another thread in itself. xt hubs have nice seals though. deore 525 is ok too. a super strong 26 rim could range from alot of things. most xc rims on mtn bikes are plenty strong for street use. i have even jumped 1-2ft with some xc rimes. xc rims are going to weigh around 450g with 17 inner width. i would say a rim that weighs 500g and 19mm inner is plenty strong for your application. if you want bombproof cinder blocks get some DH rims. lots of 26in rims to choose from

Thanks a lot!

Adam

What are good rims for such a purpose then? I read that Wheelsmith spokes and nipples are the strongest.

There are lots of good rims out there... so you don't have to pay big bucks to get dependable rims. My favorites are Sun CR-18 hoops. They've been manufactured forever... they're plentiful... reasonably priced... and bulletproof. They're not especially light, but not made of lead either.

I usually use whatever name brand spokes that I get a good price on. Wheelsmith... DT... I just stay away from the ultra cheap stuff that doesn't even have the manufacturer specified. I normally use butted spokes unless I have a specific reason to use a straight gauge spoke.


And finally: are sealed hubs really worth the xtra $$$? Mind you, I won't go on world trip any time soon. The most I may do is week or two weeks trips around NY State for now, plus my usual commute so I can easily overhaul the bearings if needed. Thanks!

When you say "sealed bearings" I assume that you really mean "cartridge bearings". I'm a rebuild and reuse kind of guy, so I'm not a big fan of cartridge bearings. The big advantage is that you never touch cartridge bearings... you just ride them until they die. On the other hand, cup and cone bearings can be rebuilt. That's why I love the older Dura Ace stuff. High quality cup-n-cone bearings that you can rebuild again and again and again. I have 30 year old hubs that still spin like butter. But the price is that you have to occasionally repack them.

Yup, I meant cartridge bearings. I think you convinced me against them though. I don't mind repacking them, even once a year. I'd rather do that than throw anything away and get new ones. Unfortunately, I didn't maintain my MTB properly for too many years and the rear hub isn't as smooth as I'd like it to be, even after thorough cleaning and repacking with new bearings. So that's one of the reasons I'm thinking about rebuilding these wheels.

My fav LBS uses Sun rims a lot, they say they're very strong. I owned a pair of their wheels once on a steel singlespeed and indeed they were trouble-free. My current rims are Alex rims that came stock with my Jamis Dakar bike. They look OK, have eyelets but I may replace them with something stronger.

Thanks!

Adam

After building several wheelsets over the years the fun and excitement of wheel building faded. I now buy decent machine built wheelsets and tweek them myself, saving myself some money as well. Now, I will only build if I absolutely have to use a particular set of hubs, rims, or combination of both. Or I just happen to have spared hubs or rims laying around...

Wow, are these overkill:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/RI707A07-Sun+Rhyno+Lite+Xl+Tcb+Rim.aspx

Adam

yes and no. the rhynolite is mostly a downhill/all mountain rim. some people do use them on cargo bikes though. they are also notorious for difficult tire mounting

So if built up with strong spokes they'd make pretty tough wheels for touring/commuting, right?

Adam

they will be plenty strong for touring and commuting. strong enough to drop stairs and curbs if you really wanted. 32 or 36 straight 14g or butted spokes is fine. i would really consider the tire mounting thing that i mentioned though.

Maybe I shouldn't be doing this kind of "research" while feeling sick, but I can't match up rims with hubs. I looked at Jenson USA, PricePoint, Nashbar and eBay. Most rims are 32h but most black/6 bolt disc hubs are 36h but I can't find any 36h rims. Only Shimano centerlock hubs are 32h, I'm getting confused, maybe it's time to uplug :twitchy: The parts selection is rather underwhelming.

Ideally I'd like black hubs with 6-bold IS disc brake mount.

Adam

they will be plenty strong for touring and commuting. strong enough to drop stairs and curbs if you really wanted. 32 or 36 straight 14g or butted spokes is fine. i would really consider the tire mounting thing that i mentioned though.

The 700cc Sun rims I had before were also a pain to get a tire on it. Hopefully, that won't happen too often.

Adam

wtb dual duty fr would be similar weight to a rhyno lite but much easier tire mounting