Foo - This is why I need to be car free.

Is it wrong that I am posting a rant about my car dealership on a cycling forum?

Anyway...I called last week to set up an appointment to have some basic maintenance done on my car (oil change, tire rotation, mileage maintenance). I get here for my scheduled appointment time and am told that I will have to wait an hour for something that should take no longer than thirty minutes. There are four people in front on me. WTF! Why did I bother scheduling an appointment? :notamused:

Conclusion: I need to move out of the Motor City to a place where I can live car free.

Why take your car somewhere to change the oil and rotate the tires when you can do it yourself faster than you can drive to the oil place?
Yes, car dealerships suck. That said, try scheduling on the spot maintenance at your local bike shop.

Like all service businesses, they will double book expecting a certain amount of no shows. I would ask for some sort of consideration from them. Discount on that day's service, etc. I had a very good relationship with a service advisor at the Ford dealership where I bought my last car. He would always get me a loaner vehicle. I would drop mine in, get in their car and leave. They also had a courtesy van that would pick you up and drop you off if needed. As I officed just a few miles from the dealership, I used that option once or twice as well. Still set up the appt, just never chose to wait.

find a local vocational training schoolwith an automotive tech class. While you can't schedule an exact time, you can usually get am/pm and drop your car off, pick it up later. These programs usually charge a flat fee plus parts. Bring your own oil/filter/liquids and you would just pay the fee ($15 where I am), but sometimes these schools get a great break from the autoparts folks, so it's cheaper to let them get yur stuff. Last time I had the oil changed (synthetic), other fluids checked/topped off, and tires rotated it cost me a few pennies off $30.00.

there's a strong chance that the young person changing the oil and rotating the tires at your dealership is actually s student in one of these programs!

Why take your car somewhere to change the oil and rotate the tires when you can do it yourself faster than you can drive to the oil place?
Yes, car dealerships suck. That said, try scheduling on the spot maintenance at your local bike shop.

I live in a very small apartment with a parking lot. Not only is doing car maintenance in the parking lot frowned upon, there is not room for me to store the proper tools to do such maintenance. On top of that, the car is new and the maintenance was part of the purchase of the car. My gripe is that my appointment time was apparently also the appointment time of 4 other people, and my half hour maintenance took an hour and a half.

If I was car free, I'd not have to even worry about oil changes and tire rotations and air filters, etc. Also would not have to worry about rising gas prices.

apc9, I am going to look for a vocational training school as I need to get some work done on my ford freestyle. thanks for that tip!!!

Is it wrong that I am posting a rant about my car dealership on a cycling forum?

Anyway...I called last week to set up an appointment to have some basic maintenance done on my car (oil change, tire rotation, mileage maintenance). I get here for my scheduled appointment time and am told that I will have to wait an hour for something that should take no longer than thirty minutes. There are four people in front on me. WTF! Why did I bother scheduling an appointment? :notamused:

Conclusion: I need to move out of the Motor City to a place where I can live car free.

living car free is completely over-rated. trust me.

...Conclusion: I need to move out of the Motor City ...

:thumb:

Why take your car somewhere to change the oil and rotate the tires when you can do it yourself faster than you can drive to the oil place?
Yes, car dealerships suck. That said, try scheduling on the spot maintenance at your local bike shop.
She had a free coupon for it. You cannot do it on your own for free.

Well ya get what ya pay fer.

Well ya get what ya pay fer.
The coupon runs out. Do you think she'll be back to actually pay for her service? That's why they sent the coupon in the first place is to try and bring in an eventual paying customer.

She had a free coupon for it. You cannot do it on your own for free.

That makes a bit more sense, at least as far as the oil and other stuff goes.


I live in a very small apartment with a parking lot. Not only is doing car maintenance in the parking lot frowned upon, there is not room for me to store the proper tools to do such maintenance. On top of that, the car is new and the maintenance was part of the purchase of the car. My gripe is that my appointment time was apparently also the appointment time of 4 other people, and my half hour maintenance took an hour and a half.

If I was car free, I'd not have to even worry about oil changes and tire rotations and air filters, etc. Also would not have to worry about rising gas prices.

Same where I used to live. As a result, I would change my oil at the parts store (who loaned tools, although I always had my own) parking lot. Wear a dirty shirt, borrow an oil pan, reach under (I'm skinny with long arms), open plug, close plug, change filter, pour new oil in the top, old oil in the container, walk it back in side, and 15 minutes later I was cleaned up other than my shirt. I do agree that the work should have been on time, but at the same time there's no way that they can be exactly on time without putting holes in their schedule. Holes which are compensated for by charging more for a service.

My toolbox is about the size of three shoe boxes, lives in the trunk, and has all the tools I've ever *needed* to complete an automotive repair job short of changing the clutch.

I've come to expect bad service everywhere, from everyone. Low expectations keeps me from being disappointed, but makes me uber excited when something actually goes well!

No point here, except sorry for the frustrations :(

Take your bike with you on the back of the car. Drop off the car, bike where you have to go from there. :)

Even if I have an appointment, I always plan to leave my car overnight--it's just a safer assumption that way. Had a surprise last time, though--I dropped the car off and it was about done before I was done in the restroom. I even had a ride arranged, but I didn't need it!

Take it to an independent mechanic rather than to the dealership, unless of course this would void your vehicle warranty.

Take it to an independent mechanic rather than to the dealership, unless of course this would void your vehicle warranty.

Apparently that's a myth. As long as you can prove regular & scheduled maintenance, it doesn't matter where it gets done.

Apparently that's a myth. As long as you can prove regular & scheduled maintenance, it doesn't matter where it gets done.

Federal Law (Magnuson-Moss Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act)) states that you are NOT required to go to a dealer to get maintenance performed, provided the shop that does do the work follows manufacturer's guidelines and requirements. You have to be vigilant though that the shop is doing the work properly; for instance I own a Hyundai with an automatic transmission. When I get it flushed, I pretty much have to go to the dealer because transmission shops will almost always use "universal" fluid that isn't universal and can actually cause damage to components in my car's transmission.

<3 2 Ride, moving out of Detroit is a good idea even if you had free service at your beck & call for life.

When GM set up a truck factory in my town, and imported a bunch of 'experienced help', our little city saw a massive increase in gang activity, gun violence, and road-rage-inducing traffic.

Barely even recognize my hometown anymore....

<3 2 Ride, moving out of Detroit is a good idea even if you had free service at your beck & call for life.

When GM set up a truck factory in my town, and imported a bunch of 'experienced help', our little city saw a massive increase in gang activity, gun violence, and road-rage-inducing traffic.

Barely even recognize my hometown anymore....

Ahh, the myth that the metro area is all Detroit. I live in a very nice suburb that is quiet and safe. The only reason I feel the need to leave here is just so I can depend less upon a motorized vehicle and more upon my own power. The car culture here is strong and the roads are just not safe for riding everywhere I would like to be able to go.

I was frustrated this morning that I had a scheduled appointment for my maintenance. They knew my car was coming in for very specific things at 9 am. There is no reason that I had to wait an hour and a half for my car other than the fact that they over-booked the time. If they are looking for a repeat customer, they failed.

Have UA do the service to your car.

Have UA do the service to your car.

It's not about not being able to do it ourselves or finding a way to do it ourselves. It's a new car and the service came with the purchase of the car. I don't pay for anything. If they are looking for a customer that will pay in the future, they have failed. I will use my free service for the year and then I will move on.

It's not about not being able to do it ourselves or finding a way to do it ourselves. It's a new car and the service came with the purchase of the car. I don't pay for anything. If they are looking for a customer that will pay in the future, they have failed. I will use my free service for the year and then I will move on.

Ever since I got my daily driver back in 2000 I've done all my maintenance on it unless it's changing tires or something electrical, I don't trust dealerships with the basic maintenance.

I have often wondered as to the feasibility of living car free as a suburban parent of young children. Thinking back on maintaining a full-time professional job, a working spouse, all the kid activities, the distances to the activities and the lack of transit options, I don't think I would have accomplished it.

In consideration of my time, the special tools required and the issues with oil disposal, I gladly pay the $ 40 to have my oil changed every 5000 miles. Interestingly enough, however, I do almost all my own maintenance on the bicycles and motorcycles. Much easier to get to all the necessary parts.

I had an appointment with a well-known national tire chain, to get new tires on my company truck. When I got there, right on time, I was told that I was number four in line. I not only left and never returned, I also pulled a fleet of about 20 cars and trucks. That was thirty some-odd years ago, and I still have never been back.

She had a free coupon for it. You cannot do it on your own for free.


It's not about not being able to do it ourselves or finding a way to do it ourselves. It's a new car and the service came with the purchase of the car. I don't pay for anything. If they are looking for a customer that will pay in the future, they have failed. I will use my free service for the year and then I will move on.
You got a coupon book for service to be done at the dealership, right? Depending on your interest rate, you got took for a ride. Dealerships tend to overcharge for their services.

But since you have already paid for the service (up front, in the purchase price of the car), then you might as well take advantage of it. Next time you call to schedule an appointment, tell the service advisor that you understand that time is money (why they overbook), but that it is a two way street. Try to get them to compensate you for your time, by providing a loaner.

Our local dealership has pulled far more stupid crap. We only gave them another chance after their first demonstration of gross ineptitude, because the head mechanic responsible for that was fired. After getting a recall notice about a faulty gas tank, we called them to schedule having the work done. They told us to wait until we smelled gas. :notamused:

We now drive the extra distance, to get our cars serviced in another town. The dealership there has been pretty good to us.

pretty easy to live car-free around here....just sayin', in case y'all move:innocent:

Preventive car maintenance is over rated. I always change the oil when the engine starts to sound "chaka-chaka-chaka" and never had a problem. My first car was even better... it leaked exactly 4 quarts during 3 months of use, therefore no oil change was ever needed. The tires? Change them when you see steel where rubber should be. Brakes? those are actually design to make an annoying "peeeeeee" sound when they need to be changed.

I like to do most of this myself but with some cars (like the ford Taurus for example) you are better off getting the job done by somebody else.

About appointments, I think the only businesses that always stick to the schedule are psychiatrist offices. I wonder why :rolleyes:

I was frustrated this morning that I had a scheduled appointment for my maintenance. They knew my car was coming in for very specific things at 9 am. There is no reason that I had to wait an hour and a half for my car other than the fact that they over-booked the time. If they are looking for a repeat customer, they failed.
Scheduled many Doctor appointments lately? How did that work out for meeting your expectations about scheduled start times?

Scheduled many Doctor appointments lately? How did that work out for meeting your expectations about scheduled start times?
My physician is awesome. Often times, I show up 10 to 15 minutes early for my appointment and am out before my appointment time. He's a busy doctor. Lots of patients, but he understands that we don't want to spend our lives in his office when we are not feeling well. He doesn't overbook.

You got a coupon book for service to be done at the dealership, right? Depending on your interest rate, you got took for a ride.


Incorrect.

In consideration of my time, the special tools required and the issues with oil disposal, I gladly pay the $ 40 to have my oil changed every 5000 miles. Interestingly enough, however, I do almost all my own maintenance on the bicycles and motorcycles. Much easier to get to all the necessary parts.

Special tools and oil disposal? Nearly all auto stores that sell oil also take used oil for free even if you aren't a customer (at least in the places I've lived in Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, South Dakota, and Minnesota), and the only tools needed are a crescent wrench (or just the one right size wrench) and your hands. Rarely I've found an oil filter that I need a filter strap for, that's $5 if you need one. Now, if you're depending on the oil change folks to also check your antifreeze and transmission fluid levels, do a brake inspection, and whatever else because you don't regularly look at those things, that makes sense.

Preventive car maintenance is over rated. I always change the oil when the engine starts to sound "chaka-chaka-chaka" and never had a problem. My first car was even better... it leaked exactly 4 quarts during 3 months of use, therefore no oil change was ever needed. The tires? Change them when you see steel where rubber should be. Brakes? those are actually design to make an annoying "peeeeeee" sound when they need to be changed.
1) I always liked the term "automatic oil change and disposal". You put oil in, it removes and disposes of the old stuff.
2) Steel tread? Why stop there? Steel is stronger than rubber. Trains use steel wheels, you can keep driving on that.
3) Interestingly true. Unless you have your radio on all the time, then your co-workers have to remind you.

You got a coupon book for service to be done at the dealership, right? Depending on your interest rate, you got took for a ride. Dealerships tend to overcharge for their services.

Technically yes, she did pay for it. However, a lot of new and used car dealers these days are throwing in the 1st year or xxx miles of service as part of the the sale. By throwing it in I mean that while you are paying for it, they won't give you a discount if you opt out from the start. It's sort of like wheels on a new car. They'll list even the base ones as a line item, but won't remove it if you offer to pick the car up with your own set.


I have often wondered as to the feasibility of living car free as a suburban parent of young children. Thinking back on maintaining a full-time professional job, a working spouse, all the kid activities, the distances to the activities and the lack of transit options, I don't think I would have accomplished it.
That would be VERY difficult. If nothing else you would need either a grocery store very close to home, or a huge trailer to feed the kids.

Actually, it should take around an hour to do an oil change and tire rotation. Keep in mind the dealer will do the whole job, incl. tire pressures, fluid levels, tire balance, and so on. And they have free coffee. Taking a car to a dealership is a lot like taking a bike to a shop: it costs more, and they are trained to actually know what they are doing.

Actually, it should take around an hour to do an oil change and tire rotation. Keep in mind the dealer will do the whole job, incl. tire pressures, fluid levels, tire balance, and so on. And they have free coffee. Taking a car to a dealership is a lot like taking a bike to a shop: it costs more, and they are trained to actually know what they are doing.

You have better dealers than the ones my friends went to. I tagged along a couple times, and they never had the balance checked or corrected on their tires.

Special tools and oil disposal? Nearly all auto stores that sell oil also take used oil for free even if you aren't a customer (at least in the places I've lived in Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, South Dakota, and Minnesota), and the only tools needed are a crescent wrench (or just the one right size wrench) and your hands. Rarely I've found an oil filter that I need a filter strap for, that's $5 if you need one. Now, if you're depending on the oil change folks to also check your antifreeze and transmission fluid levels, do a brake inspection, and whatever else because you don't regularly look at those things, that makes sense.

I do not have a lift or ramps, and I am too old and safety-conscious to jack up the car and crawl around on a creeper. Given that I have the oil changed twice a year or so, it would take many years to amortize the cost of a lift or ramps. Otherwise I do have pretty much all the tools needed from my bicycle and motorcycle repair. Working on my motorcycles and bicycles is fun and I do it as a hobby. Doing the cars is work, and I get paid more per hour than it costs by taking it to the quick lube. Now, if you value your free time at a very low cost per hour, and you have free access to a lift or ramps or can get around just fine with a creeper, then it may be more economical to do it yourself.

living car free is completely over-rated. trust me.

Just coming up to 4 years for me, looks like I will be getting one later this year.

Just coming up to 4 years for me, looks like I will be getting one later this year.

i'm sorry.

I also can't see changing your own oil. From a practical standpoint, the time spent having someone do it for you is about the same as the time you'll spend just disposing of the oil, now add shopping for a filter, cleaning your garage floor after you get it everywhere, unhealthy skin contact with petroleum products (causes cancer), and the fact that if they leave something loose and squeak the motor they have to buy you a new engine. If you make a mistake, you get to buy the new motor with your own check book.

That said, Jiffy Lube's average repair order in 1994 was over a hundred bucks. So watch the up-sell.

I'm sure everyone has a dealership sad tale to tell, but they are still the best trained people for the job. Like an LBS. Lotsa sad stories if BF is to be believed, but they still have the training.

Saying that people at Jiffy Lube are trained is like saying the "expert bike assembler" at WalMart is an expert. As for buying you a new engine, you must not have ever known someone who had a problem with them. They'll buy you a new engine, but it will take months of tearing your hair out and not having a working vehicle before they fix it.

I've seen enough stripped drain plugs, wrong air and oil filters, wrong oil, services charged for and not performed, that I will never go to Jippy Lube again.

Been car free for ... hmmmm at least 14 years now. Because where I live and work is conducive to not having a car - meaning if I do not commute and rely on public transit (I live inner city - so I have to deal with opposite of the street parking, parking garage - which can range from $60/month to $1.00/day in a bad city section), but - - it's there. Shopping - I can get around via bike that is winter worthy (with studs). Now if I had a job that required me to drive 40 minutes away (and yes I can actually stick my commuter on the bus and use the transit system to get from the "park&ride"bus to where I need to go .... )... now I'm stretching it a bit.

Where I move next - I will most likely still use the commuter bit, but will have to also supplement a vehicle to make sure I can get to where I need to for my job.

But for the time being, it's most economical to commute via bicycle to where I work, and will do it too.

Federal Law (Magnuson-Moss Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act)) states that you are NOT required to go to a dealer to get maintenance performed, provided the shop that does do the work follows manufacturer's guidelines and requirements. You have to be vigilant though that the shop is doing the work properly; for instance I own a Hyundai with an automatic transmission. When I get it flushed, I pretty much have to go to the dealer because transmission shops will almost always use "universal" fluid that isn't universal and can actually cause damage to components in my car's transmission.

The assertion that transmission flushes are a necessity is also a myth. In modern vehicles with automatic transmissions, you shouldn't EVER need to change your transmission fluid. And as far as manual transmissions go, you'll need the clutch overhauled eventually, at which point the fluid would be changed anyway.

I drove a 95 Buick Lesabre as my daily driver a few years ago and the tranny fluid was as pristine pink as the day it was filled at the factory. wasn't a drop low either.

Flushing solvents through your engine/drivetrain is a BAD idea, especially in high mileage vehicles.

Transmissions aren't subject to the carbon buildup and grime that engine blocks are. You simply do not get gunk in the transmission like you do in the oil pan.

Just because you can't legally void your warranty by going to an independent, it doesn't mean that the dealership's service center can't hassle you about it if something goes wrong.

Saying that people at Jiffy Lube are trained is like saying the "expert bike assembler" at WalMart is an expert. As for buying you a new engine, you must not have ever known someone who had a problem with them. They'll buy you a new engine, but it will take months of tearing your hair out and not having a working vehicle before they fix it.
I said dealerships are trained. Liffy Lube is the McDonalds of car service. I have sold plenty of engines to instant oil change places. Now I'm just happy to be out of the car biz.

Ahh, the myth that the metro area is all Detroit. I live in a very nice suburb that is quiet and safe. The only reason I feel the need to leave here is just so I can depend less upon a motorized vehicle and more upon my own power. The car culture here is strong and the roads are just not safe for riding everywhere I would like to be able to go..

So which is it? Safe or not safe? I wrote more about this on topic at
http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2010/01/23/how-do-you-define-safe

So which is it? Safe or not safe? I wrote more about this on topic at
http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2010/01/23/how-do-you-define-safe

Are you serious? It wasn't that hard to read the meaning behind my statements. It's not safe for commuting on a bicycle. It's a car culture. It is safe for living and/or raising a family (low crime rate, clean neighborhoods, good schools, etc.).

I've been known to take the commuter bike on the back of the civic, drop the civic off at the shop for maintenance/repair, and then ride the commuter into the office. Might be helpful approach, might not.

it sounds to me like you just need to find a different dealer. i generally do the work myself but i also live in an apartment and oil changes outside, in sub zero temps dont excite me, so in the winter months i just have the dealer do it. i actualy just had my oil changed yesterday, and after a discount they always give me (they have called on me for aftermarket part help/fitment/advice) i payed $6 more than it would have cost me to change it myself.

more importantly, they have been very accommodating to me. they pick up my truck when i am at work, and drop it back off before i get off work.

one time i had them do a modification that required tools i do not own and after they got the axel torn out they released they accidentally forgot to order a part. not only that, the part was backordered. they called me and apologized and dropped off a sedan with a full tank. a week later i was headed on vacation and i stopped in to check progress. the part was expected the next day and they said i could use any truck i wanted on the lot for my trip. i told them the car i was given was fine. before i left, they washed it and filled it up (on their bill) for my trip. when i returned, the service manager sat me down, apologized, and discounted the labor for my inconvenience (which wasn't a problem to me at all, it was their lift that couldn't be used for over a week)

Don't go to dealerships for maintenance like that. If you don't do it yourself, take it to a good independent shop.