General Cycling Discussion - How good is your public transport system?

Adelaide's public transport system is alright but no where near perfect. One good thing is you can buy a 10 trip ticket for $19.80.
This ticket will give you 2 hour transfers from bus, train, tram so once you board you can get on and off all you want until two hours
has expired for $1.98. Very good.

We have an O-Bahn bus system. The bus drives along on a specially made concrete path that holds the bus in place at 100kph/60mph
at the end of the path the bus disembarks and can then drive on a normal road. The O-Bahn is only 12km/7ml
long but is virtually 100kph the whole way. The bus can beat a car into town by 20mins easily. Unfortunately it cost so much
to make that we only have this one O-Bahn.

The main problem is with our trains, they run every half hour on weekdays and every hour on weekends. There just isn't enough
frequency to make it a viable system. The other problem is that there are no conductors on the trains to buy tickets from.
You have to buy a ticket from a machine that only accepts coins. The conductors were removed years ago to save money.
They now employ ticket inspectors, but these guys don't sell tickets they just issue $105 dollar fines.

Is it my imagination or is the Government trying to make the system difficult. You don't have to be Albert Einstein to see
the problems and fix them.:mad:

What is the public transport system like where you live?

CHEERS.

Mark

Public transport in Perth is said to be pretty good - by the public transport people.

I wouldn't know too much because I never use it. I think that's the problem with it. So many people choosing to use private transport means that they can't afford to increase the service. Without an increased service - people choose not to use it. Catch 22.

Mind you I know a few regular users who reckon it's great.

Great! Trains and busses, as well as trams and subways in the largest cities. The trains went through a rough patch for about six months when management upset the workers last year, but it is getting back to normal. All of Europe that I have seen is at least pretty good.

And the priorities can be interesting. Last week, I bought an "all zones" train ticket in Copenhagen. I went from the business venue into Copenhagen center, then from there to the airport after a walkabout in town. Two rides, probably 60-80 Km, and about 40 minutes overall riding time.

When I got to the airport, I had a large Carlsburg beer to while away the time. That one beer cost me about 15% more than the train ticket! :D

Cheers...Gary

Not good...

The main bus service is run by Stagecoach who put profit way, way in front of service. The buses are generally overcrowded, unreliable and expensive. I seem to recall that they cancelled one useful and fairly popular service linking several towns on the grounds that it was frequently late :(

The rail service is owned by Connex SouthEast, yes the same Connex who ran SouthCentral services until their franchise wasn't renewed due to the appalling service. My understanding is that the Connex were given a longer franchise in the SouthEast because of promised improvements to rolling stock (replacing 1950's/60's slam door trains), several years later almost every trip I make in the week is on an old slam door train (although as space for cycles wasn't considered in the design for the newer trains and you've got to rely on the goodwill of the guard to let you put your bike in the doorway...). Oh, and if you want to take your bike to London for the day, (or indeed any town in a London-wards direction) forget it if you plan on being there before ten o'clock because cycles are banned before then. Trains are generally filthy and severely overcrowded (when they don't breakdown). To give an idea of the standard of service, at the beginning of the year punctuality (i.e. trains that arrive within 5mins of stated time) on the Kent Coast route was below 50%, reliability (i.e. trains that ran wasn't a great deal better).

One good thing about our public transport system is that it was one reason why I bought a bike ;)

Richard

In Brisbane, it's astonishingly bad. I have arranged things for myself so that I'm about 200m from a train station at home, and not much more than that at work. So, allowing for the pathetic frequency of trains, even at 'peak' times, it's not too bad for me, but god help me if I ever wanted to use it to get anywhere other than the city on a weekday. I pity the poor souls that rely on the bus 'service' here, even considering the BCC's obsession with building million dollar busways (ie. it's just another road)

Originally posted by Richard D
Not good...

The main bus service is run by Stagecoach who put profit way, way in front of service. The buses are generally overcrowded, unreliable and expensive. I seem to recall that they cancelled one useful and fairly popular service linking several towns on the grounds that it was frequently late :(

The rail service is owned by Connex SouthEast, yes the same Connex who ran SouthCentral services until their franchise wasn't renewed due to the appalling service. My understanding is that the Connex were given a longer franchise in the SouthEast because of promised improvements to rolling stock (replacing 1950's/60's slam door trains), several years later almost every trip I make in the week is on an old slam door train (although as space for cycles wasn't considered in the design for the newer trains and you've got to rely on the goodwill of the guard to let you put your bike in the doorway...). Oh, and if you want to take your bike to London for the day, (or indeed any town in a London-wards direction) forget it if you plan on being there before ten o'clock because cycles are banned before then. Trains are generally filthy and severely overcrowded (when they don't breakdown). To give an idea of the standard of service, at the beginning of the year punctuality (i.e. trains that arrive within 5mins of stated time) on the Kent Coast route was below 50%, reliability (i.e. trains that ran wasn't a great deal better).

One good thing about our public transport system is that it was one reason why I bought a bike ;)

Richard

Amen to that brother! :)

Rich

I don't really go for buses in a big way. There seem to be quite a lot of them, but i live about 2.5 miles from the town centre and a one-way bus ticket will cost £1.00. Cycling's cheaper, as long as you can find a parking spot!

I used the train quite a lot in Bournemouth to get to Poole, where I worked. The train service down there is run by South West Trains, which have been striking in a big way since Christmas, but when they're running it's actually a good service. Every train had bike space and bikes were free. I have a youg persons railcard, so the fare wasn't extortionate.

The one place I did find a really good bus service was the Milton Keynes park and ride. It was free parking and free bus service, right into the centre of the town. Well recommended.

Ellie

Bikes and trains go together here a lot. Here is one example - the central train station in Leiden.

http://www.masong4.demon.nl/images/LeidenBikes.jpg

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by MediaCreations

I wouldn't know too much [about Perth's public transport] because I never use it. I think that's the problem with it. So many people choosing to use private transport means that they can't afford to increase the service. Without an increased service - people choose not to use it. Catch 22.

This pretty well sums up the Kansas City situation.

P. T. here could be worse, but it could be SOOOO much better. Buses can't afford to run with needed frequency because there aren't enough riders. But they'll never get the riders till they increase the frequency!

And I can't blame anybody for feeling disenchanted with the bus system if they get on board for the first time ever and are confronted by a rude driver and/or crazy, drug-ridden, or obnoxiously loud and arrogant passengers. (See also thread about children and the failure of their parents.)

gmason, thanks for the photo of bikes in Leiden. That has to look astonishing to anybody in the US.

As for transport in Europe, sadly my only experience is outdated now, as it was in Paris in 1963 (yes, sixty-three, before there were even personal computers or Britney Spears). But I was very happy with the Métro then. I truly believe the main reason we don't have transportation that viable in the United States is that the oil and automobile companies have kept it from happening. Period.

I think that rationale is correct. At least in part. But that started because of the extraordinary ability we had to move out to less densely populated areas, which meant longer distances.

That dispersal, coupled with the ability of most people to purchase a car, and the freedom we got used to as a result, is generally credited with eliminating all but the smallest vestiges of good public transport in the U.S.

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by gmason
Bikes and trains go together here a lot. Here is one example - the central train station in Leiden.


That reminds me. I gotta get a picture of Cambridge station. you guys would love it.

Nice pic! :)

Ellie

Although public transportation coverage is very poor in most of inland San Diego County, it is pretty decent along the coast. I am fortunate to live near a superb 7-year-old commuter-oriented heavy rail line (www.gonctd.com), and when my company hired me and opened up a San Diego office, one of my coworkers found a space near another station on the line. Thanks to my influence and that of one of the San Francisco-based bike-and-BART-riding hired consultants, the trains feature roll-on accommodations for two to six bicycles per coach.

My stress-free commute now comprises my choice of an 11+-mile/18km bike ride on mostly-decent roads and bike lanes, or a 2km walk/jog from home to the station, a 15-minute ocean view train ride, and a 2km walk/jog to my office. (Now that we have an active beach sand replenishment program, I should try taking the shoreline detour on the way home. Life's tough ...)

I am looking forward to the extension of the San Diego trolley / light rail system to the SDSU campus, which is accessed via particularly bicycle- and pedestrian-hostile freeway-style streets with high-speed merges and diverges.

Sucks. We only have busses. They do run regularly though and only the one's to downtown are overcrowded but they are the posh comfy cursers not beaters.
After touring London and NYC we could do so much to detach our car addiction and start relying on mass transit systems but it would take a 100 years to put something like that in place here.

Agree with Toninator
Dallas SUCKS....(transport wise!)
there are some new trains, but they run to downtown
only, and aren't very convenient to get to.
and the busses.....well nuff said.
Best transport I've ever seen was in Vienna.
for 3 months while I was there never missed either
car nor bike (except I wasn't riding!).

marty

Originally posted by lotek
Agree with Toninator
Dallas SUCKS....(transport wise!)
there are some new trains, but they run to downtown
only, and aren't very convenient to get to.
and the busses.....well nuff said.
Best transport I've ever seen was in Vienna.
for 3 months while I was there never missed either
car nor bike (except I wasn't riding!).

marty

I know a guy who spent his entire career working on the 610 loop. They are trying to put in a tram/train downtown though. It might be ready in time for the 2012 Olympics if we get it.

Originally posted by The Toninator

They are trying to put in a tram/train downtown though. It might be ready in time for the 2012 Olympics if we get it.
The Toninator, you have just given me the idea for a new Olympic event! It will be called Bus Waiting, and will be an endurance event. :)

I forgot to mention earlier that KC has no local train transport. There have been several "initiatives" to build a light-rail system, but as each time they were basically aimed at tourists, they were very wisely voted down.

One trouble with KC is that there's a prevailing attitude that tourism and entertainment (! show me :rolleyes: ) are the way to sustain the economy. The people who have the misfortune actually to live and attempt to work here are forgotten in the process.

The public bus system here is not to bad. Like JonR said as soon as you learn to ignore the rude/obnoxius people it is ok. THe bus system here has also been promising to put bike racks on the busses for the past two years. Still hoping that it happens.

Originally posted by JonR

The Toninator, you have just given me the idea for a new Olympic event! It will be called Bus Waiting, and will be an endurance event. :)

One trouble with KC is that there's a prevailing attitude that tourism and entertainment (! show me :rolleyes: ) are the way to sustain the economy. The people who have the misfortune actually to live and attempt to work here are forgotten in the process.

Hehehe an endurance event.

I installed a computer network for a company in KC/mo and i went to Kc/kc (or was it KC/mo) to gamble. Sorry but i didnt really like the area. It was worse than houston (thats pretty bad.)

Originally posted by The Toninator
...i went to Kc/kc (or was it KC/mo) to gamble. Sorry but i didnt really like the area. It was worse than houston (thats pretty bad.)
You and me both. I've lived here 38 years and if I had the means, I'd move...somewhere. Kansas City has a fantastically wonderful geographic setting and as much potential as anyplace on earth, and generations of corrupt politics, inept planning, and peabrained Midwest brainwashed thinking have kept it from developing, and in fact sent it right downhill.

Originally posted by JonR

You and me both. I've lived here 38 years and if I had the means, I'd move...somewhere. Kansas City has a fantastically wonderful geographic setting and as much potential as anyplace on earth, and generations of corrupt politics, inept planning, and peabrained Midwest brainwashed thinking have kept it from developing, and in fact sent it right downhill.

Oh sorry i forgot to mention that the landscape and climate was very nice. With the rolling hills and all in the area i was at but it was the populace/man made stuff i didn’t really care for.

Montreal is pretty good; buses, subway and commuter trains. It's good enough that you can do without a car- like I do. With public transport it's about half an hour to downtown from where I live. It would be faster but the buses that TAKE us to the subway station are not that great; the subway itself is pretty good, but buses could be better, and some areas are better served than others. The closer you are to downtown, the better the buses are. Around here, the buses suck- often I end up walking to the subway if I miss the bus. However, it's still a good system that enables you to get to most places without having to drive. Of course, the biggest drawback is that when you take the subway or bus, you have tot take it with people who take the subway or bus.

Our transit system is very similar to Wabbit's description of Montreal's system. Unfortunately, as more and more people live in Toronto and it's suburbs, the transit commision's funding has been considerably slashed. This does not make for good service. It does increase fares considerably, however. Of course, a new subway 'line to nowhere' boondoggle being implemented here makes me laugh.

Fortunately, I ride my bikes everywhere so I don't really care.

I dont think our city should waste their money on so many busses........they all drive around polluting with only a few people on them.

Originally posted by JonR

You and me both. I've lived here 38 years and if I had the means, I'd move...somewhere.

Those US dollars go a long way in Australia right now. I think you'd like it here, Jon.

Originally posted by KleinMp99
I dont think our city should waste their money on so many busses........they all drive around polluting with only a few people on them.

Public transit accommodates those who are unable to drive or unable to afford a car and unable or unwilling to use a bicycle for transportation. It can also accommodate those who should not be permitted to drive, e.g. because of vehicular homicide, reckless driving, road rage, physical or mental deterioration, or DUI convictions. One benefit of a good public transit system is that it can save lives by making it easier for a judge and/or jury to take away someone's driving permit. The buses need cleaner fuel sources, and transit riders need incentives, such as speed (where rail excels during rush hour), convenience, or money.

Iowa City's transit system consists only of buses. But, for a town of 60,000, I would have to say it has an excellent set-up. Although the buses do not run on Sunday's, they do run from 6am-9pm Monday thru Saturday. Routes are every 1/2 hour during rush hours and every hour during non-peak times. So, for 75 cents I can go anywhere in this town in less than 30 minutes. And last year they added the bike carriers to the front of the buses. I have yet to use this feature, but my brother uses it quite often.

Originally posted by gmason
Bikes and trains go together here a lot. Here is one example - the central train station in Leiden.

http://www.masong4.demon.nl/images/LeidenBikes.jpg

Cheers...Gary

nice pic gary. my bike is the one in the middle. i'll just wait for 4 and a half hours for everyone else to collect theirs so i can get to mine!


cabledonut.

There is a commuter train station at the end of my street, which will get you downtown in about 12 mins in weekday rush hours, but at weekends or in the evenings, there are hours between trains. This makes it impossible to integrate the bus services with the trains.

I think frequency of service is more important to increasing ridership than low fares.

Well here in vegas I dare to say that the public transportation is actually pretty good...

$30 gets you a monthly bus pass (which gets you anywhere on any bus) and the busses practically run everywhere in the city.

they run on time and are fairly efficent, they have been playing with the idea of a monorail for the last 5 years or so,

the idea is that turists could move up and down the strip quickly without having to walk on the sidewalks of the strip (very dangerous for pedistrains) I don't think it will really happen but it would help with transportation I think.

The most useful thing I can think of concerning the busses is they have a place to put your bike on the front. Though I never quite understood why you wouldn't ride to where ever you are going on your bike anyways. ;)

How do these bike racks on buses work?

Has anyone got a photo?

Richard

I used the rack on the front of a bus once. I sat there terrified as though it were myself strapped to the front of a beastly rocket of steel. It's a swell idea but personally I don't think I'll use it again anytime soon. I like to keep my two wheels on the ground.
Here's a
pic (http://www.gov.edmonton.ab.ca/transit/images/artic_no_ramp.jpg) of a bus with a rack on the front. It folds down and one or two bikes fit on the horizontal crossbars. A big arm comes up and holds each bike into place.
As far as transit goes in Edmonton, it's an issue of supply and demand. Not enough people use the service. As a result, the service sucks. Of course bad planning with our rapid transit system has something to do with it too, I think.
Cycling amond transit is not quite as unpredictable as cycling among the rest of traffic. The one bad situation a couple of buses put me in was when the two were driveing along. Both signaled to move right to stop at a bus stop. I'm passing the big beasties on the left. Never ever get yourself on the right side of a bus. I'm passing and suddenly both of these busses change their minds and continue straight in my lane. Thankfully there's a left lane I kind of got shoved into. I once saw a couriser get hit in the same situation.
Other than that, busses are ok. One trick I use when drafting busses is with older busses, peek inside and see if that "Next Stop" light is lit. It's handy to tell that this bus has planned down the road.

pfff what public transportation! I have almost none in NH. Its pretty much required you won a car here(or bike:)).
http://www.mtbmind.com

I like public transit (MARTA) where I live (Atlanta.)

I get a group rate of $28 monthly for unlimited rides. MARTA gives me more options than just riding my bike 140 miles per week. :eek:

MARTA allows bikes on the train at all times. If it's crowded, then it's hard to do. But if I want to use MARTA in the morning with my bike, I usually have no problems.

Sometimes it's nice to take a short bike trip (4.5 miles) to the train in the morning, then ride home in the afternoon. :)

Originally posted by VegasCyclist

$30 gets you a monthly bus pass (which gets you anywhere on any bus) and the busses practically run everywhere in the city.

I like VegasCyclist's upbeat comments about public transport in Las Vegas. I wish I could sound like that, but in Kansas City it's simply not that great. For $36 I buy a monthly pass that gets me anywhere THE BUS GOES on any bus. That's the catch. To go to a concert at the University at night, the nearest I can get by bus is anywhere from 3/4 mile to a full mile. It's no big deal to walk that far when the weather's nice, but last time I had to sit through a concert soaked to the skin from rain.

And dozens or hundreds of similar examples could be cited of the bus simply not going where people need to go. One of the most publicized examples is the inability of willing low-income workers, living in the inner city (where I do), to get to available jobs in the affluent suburbs. It hurts everybody. There's been a little improvement in this area, piecemeal, but a grand unified plan is needed.

As for bike racks, they've had them on John$on County (Kansas) buses for some time now, and are timidly attempting to add them to Missouri buses. The ones I've seen appear to hold three bikes and there's a simple clamping arrangement to keep them from moving too much. Sorry, I don't have a picture.

Originally posted by JonR
...similar examples could be cited of the bus simply not going where people need to go...the inability of willing low-income workers...to get to available jobs in the affluent suburbs.
It seems that nobody in "better" neighborhoods wants buses to go near their houses.

But how many of them drive through someone else's neighborhood to get to work, or stranger yet, to get to the nearest MARTA train station, creating massive traffic jams in front of other people's houses?

Chicago's public transportation system is very good if you live in the city, and mostly crappy for the suburbanites. Bikes are allowed on the El and on the commuter trains, but only on the weekends. Some of the suburban buses have racks on front, but I've never seen them in use.

Originally posted by LittleBigMan

It seems that nobody in "better" neighborhoods wants buses to go near their houses.
You're right. I almost put that in my post but thought it was getting kinda long-winded already.

I've experienced the systems in various Australian cities, and Adelaide is pretty good.
It covers the whole metro area (pretty well), unlike Brisbane, and it's cheap (Perth is VERY expensive), even if it definitely has a 'worn in' look to it (especially the brown plastic seats at the back of cantilever buses and the vandal-proof (read : rock hard) seats on the trains).

San Diego makes some attempt, and we have a tram structure. Compared to cities like Paris, Toronto- it is just for play. Out in the country side we have an attempt at buses. For some with a ordinary work schedule they work ok. You can find yourself stuck if you are not careful. They are too few and somewhat unreliable.
If you commute in Los Angeles, I am told the buses are unreliable. San Francisco is somewhat better, even good- I hear.
I appreciate this thread because I am a big mass transit fan. What I would give to be able to use transit and take my bike half way to work and give the car fettish Americans have, the heave ho. Car commuting is a miserable experience. No wonder Americans are often cranky people.
I know some countires do a much better job than the U.S. at mass transit. I have experienceed that. I recall getting off a train in Rotenburg, Germany at about 1 am. Wondering if we were going to have to walk the 2-3 miles to town. Rotenburg had a night time bus system.\
I am also a big train supporter. The comfort of the train compared to the stress of freeways. We must be nuts. European trains are so impressive.
I write this as someone who ocassionally uses U.S. Amtrak. In So. Calif. they have some decent service. I like to put my bike on the Supeliner and get off at San Luis Opibso.
Well, u. s. train users. 2002 may be the end of U.S. Amtrak and long distance trains.
The Congress says if U.S. trains do not show a profit they are done. and worst of it- Those PREDATORS of Amtrak will get their assets at fire sale prices. pharranas, I say.
I hate planes. Amtrak not make a profit- REMEMBER THE U.S. CONGRESS GAVE THE AIRLINES BILLIONS AFTER SEPT. 11 TO KEEP THEM AFLOAT. WHAT ABOUT MONEY FEDS INVEST IN AIRPORTS,and redicilious freeway systems that are crowed the day they open...... A country without a efficient, passenger long distance train system is vunerable and its priorities are screwed up.

A follow up. Put your bike on Amtrak it is safe. Put it on a U.S. plane, the charges are absurd and your bike is handled poorly. Better buy a hard case, and I heard they have damaged bikes in hard cases, even. And they take no responsiblity for its value. You must sign a waiver. If only I could cross the U.S. to Chicago on a fast train, in 10 hours, which is possbile- I would never consider a plane. Only plane use I would use, across the oceans.

Cyclezealot, I'm with you all the way. Look at the decline in US train service, in particular, and you see EVIL at work, no two ways about it. No sane person can deny the ecological benefit and the social need for train service--real, extensive train service. The US has got it all backwards. No, let me rephrase that: the US oil companies, automobile producers, and crooked politicians have TURNED it all backwards.

As a result, society suffers, and (because, as you well stated, society is made vulnerable by lack of decent transportation) society will ultimately either collapse from within or be defeated from outside.

You'd think that with all that's happened, train service would be improved, increased and updated. People might diecide that for certain trips, trains are better- and less likely to be hijacked. Same here in canada- Via rail was drastically cut by our idiot prime minister in the 1980s- thanks to him, a trip that would take 2 hours now takes six. Now, post 9.11 the airliens are suffering. Maybe rail service will change. Geez, you can get all over europe by rail!

Hi!

I've seen both sides of the public transport coin. When I left Liverpool to move to Wales 7 years ago the transport system was fantastic.

A 15 Minute interval train service from all the main conurbations surrounding Liverpool, directly into the central business district and the commercial/shopping area.

Buses to my suburb (Kirkby - 8 Miles outside Liverpool) about every 3-4 minutes. This is acheived by running about 10 services which the split between a relatively stop free route and a route through various areas with high numbers of stops. All the routes converge in Kirkby Town Centre and then disperse into the housing estates around Kirkby. About 6 of the routes involved the buses running past Kirkby Train Station thus giving another alternative route from Liverpool to Kirkby.

Fares were very cheap - an all day all area pass would cost about £3 covering Ferries, trains and buses.

£3 in Wales now gets me a half hourly bus service covering a journey of 1.5miles. I can visit my parents in Liverpool 200 miles away for £25 by train!!!!!

I live 15 miles from the captial city (Cardiff) and have an hourly train service and a twice hourly bus service both costing £5.

Wabbit. I remember using VIA rail about 1990. It was great. Sitting in the dome car eating Quebec cuisine watching the country side pass and the snow fall. Looking at the McDonald Cartier Hwy. in the distance and seeing cars slip about.( This was Easter week).
Windsor to Quebec City in like 8 hours. What a way to find yourself on your way to the Chateau Frontenac for a splurge. VIA was great. I remember reading that Brian Mulroney was out to destroy rail service. Shame. US is not alone.