Road Cycling - I want a list of Reynolds 853 bikes, plz. Here's why...

After a extensive research day and night, I finally understand. I am used to Photography but know nothing about bicycles. I do not want to make a wrong decision on purchase a new or used road bike.
Many people think digital cameras are good, I know this is not true because films still have the place to stay. I thought most new Alu bikes (like digital CCD or CMOS chip) are better than steel (film) since steel is an old technology. WRONG!

Now, I know a good Reynolds 853 bike weight for about 18 to 19 lbs. Whereas, some alu bikes could weight about 22 lbs. Then I ask myself: Does that mean a vintage steel bike is better than a new alu bike? The answer is yes and no. Vintage steel bikes are heavy and the quality are not the same as Reynolds 853 tubing. Although an old vintage bike is on the heavy side, it still gives a more comfort ride than alu in most cases.

What about Carbon Fiber and Ti? Well, I also did some research on those materials. A complete Carbon Fiber bike gives the same comfort ride as to Reynolds 853 but I need to pay a double price due to CF usually weight 3 to 4 lbs less than Reynolds 853 bicycle. Therefore, it is not the best price to pay for what I am getting. Another issue with CF is they tend to fail in a rapid process but the steel still can ride for another few months. At last, steel is easy to fix and weld. Ti is also another expensive material and it is even rare than Reynolds 853 bicycles. Titanium is still not a popular choice for cyclists.

In my previous posting, I said that I want a new bike for around Cdn$1000. Well, I think that I should look hard and find myself a decent used road bike with Reynolds 853 frame. I am in the stage to collect a listing of brand with Reynolds 853 frame and I got few here and I need your help to add few more. Then all I need is money and PATIENCE (Getting a right frame size is hard in used market and I am looking the size of 51cm to 53cm seat tube frame). :(

Here are the list:

Schwinn Peloton
KHS Flite 800
Trek 520
Lemond Bicycles

I almost forgot Cervelo. Cervelo Super Prodigy still making good steel bikes but I do not think it is Reynolds 853 tubing. They use Columbus Custom Thermacrom Steel. Which is better? I do not know and maybe you can answer this question.

my aluminum c'dale r600 is 20lbs

if/when it does break, i will definitely get a 853 frame

fuji roubaix pro. i've built two for my shop in the last two months. they come with 105 components with a truvativ crank. one was a 58 for the shop and the other was a 54 for a customer/friend of the shop. so far, he's had no complaints. it's a super light frame, the 58 IN THE BOX felt like nothing. i'm not a huge fan of the fuji geometry, but i haven't had a chance to really test ride the roubaix pro. but it's got an 853 main triangle, and whatever elios proprietary steel rear.

Another issue with CF is they tend to fail in a rapid process but the steel still can ride for another few months. At last, steel is easy to fix and weld.

LOOK OUT!! The carbon fibre lobby group will be after you :D

I've been going through a similar process, so here's my 1.84 cents:

Are you heavy? This might help with your decision.

Firstly, be warned; not all 853 frames are equal, especially if you're looking at some older, second hand ones. Some use oversize downtubes, some older ones have lugs, etc, etc, which means that some are quite light, yet some are absolute anvils, so be very careful.

An affordable 853 bike that buyers seem to be happy with is one of the 2003 Fuji models (i think, the "Marseille"). There's a couple of regular contributors to this forum who own 853 bikes, and are happy with them (55/Rad and Shokhead), so you might wanna quiz them, if they don't mind. :)

The Cervelo Superprodigy uses a custom version of Columbus Ultrafoco (or Foco), which is lighter than 853, but 'I have heard stories' of guys breaking Ultrafoco frames -- however, Cervelo seem to have made a very strong, light product: http://www.efbe.de/defbefrm.htm. The Superprodigy also comes with a Columbus muscle fork (one inch steerer, I think), and sells (frame and fork only) for about $999. Some people have a problem with the fact that it is not made in Canada, but Taiwan, or "off shore" as Cervelo informed me via email. To answer your question, most "semi-pros" would say that these frames are "better" than the average 853 frame. They were even used in a few pro races in Europe by team CSC, which, as far as I know, is the first time in a long time that a steel was used by a European pro.

Reynolds seems to be more affordable that Italian tube sets, but, just to confuse the issue: Columbus have the "nivacrom" steels called "Genius" "Zona" and "Nemo", which might be worth looking at, and they've recently brought out some new "niobium" steels (sounds like something that powers the starship Voyager) called "Spirit" and "Life". Here's some more Columbus info which also includes the older tubing:
http://www.ceeway.com/Columbus-Tubing.htm
http://www.kvanproductions.com/cycling/tube_production.htm

There are other tubing companies: True Temper (http://www.truetemper.com/performance_tubing/biketube.htmland), which is not so ubiquitous, and Dedacciai (http://www.dedacciai.com/), which is gradually becoming more prevalent -- but, as I said, frames made from these tube-sets seem to be more expensive than Reynolds.

After a extensive research day and night, I finally understand. I am used to Photography but know nothing about bicycles. I do not want to make a wrong decision on purchase a new or used road bike.
Many people think digital cameras are good, I know this is not true because films still have the place to stay. I thought most new Alu bikes (like digital CCD or CMOS chip) are better than steel (film) since steel is an old technology. WRONG!

Now, I know a good Reynolds 853 bike weight for about 18 to 19 lbs. Whereas, some alu bikes could weight about 22 lbs. Then I ask myself: Does that mean a vintage steel bike is better than a new alu bike? The answer is yes and no. Vintage steel bikes are heavy and the quality are not the same as Reynolds 853 tubing. Although an old vintage bike is on the heavy side, it still gives a more comfort ride than alu in most cases.

What about Carbon Fiber and Ti? Well, I also did some research on those materials. A complete Carbon Fiber bike gives the same comfort ride as to Reynolds 853 but I need to pay a double price due to CF usually weight 3 to 4 lbs less than Reynolds 853 bicycle. Therefore, it is not the best price to pay for what I am getting. Another issue with CF is they tend to fail in a rapid process but the steel still can ride for another few months. At last, steel is easy to fix and weld. Ti is also another expensive material and it is even rare than Reynolds 853 bicycles. Titanium is still not a popular choice for cyclists.

In my previous posting, I said that I want a new bike for around Cdn$1000. Well, I think that I should look hard and find myself a decent used road bike with Reynolds 853 frame. I am in the stage to collect a listing of brand with Reynolds 853 frame and I got few here and I need your help to add few more. Then all I need is money and PATIENCE (Getting a right frame size is hard in used market and I am looking the size of 51cm to 53cm seat tube frame). :(

Here are the list:

Schwinn Peloton
KHS Flite 800
Trek 520
Lemond Bicycles There is nothing magic about 853,and some of the cheaper configurations are next to worthless with respect to weight saving,and offer nothing but the fancy label. Scratch the Trek 520.It's just plain old cromo..

853 is amazing but no more so than I'm sure other high end steel is including the fine Italian steels.

As for a list, it pretty darn long. Fuji Marseille and Roubaix Pro are very popular as were the '03 and earlier Lemond Maillot Jaune, Zurich, Buenos Aires, Poprad, Tourmalet etc....

The cheapest I know of is the Mercier Serpens over at Bikesdirect.com

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Reynolds+853+steel+road+bikes&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-pull-web-t&n=20&fl=0&x=wrt

55/Rad

Co-Motion Cycles of Eugene, OR USA builds the Espresso racing bike with R 853. Weighs in at 16.55 lbs, including R Ouzo Pro carbon fork, Rolf Prima Elan wheels and D/A 10 speed.

waterford and gunnar make 853 frames/bikes as well but they cost a heck of a lot more than the other names folks have mentioned.

A bike made of 853 is not automatically good. A bigger consideration is not what the bike is made of, but how it is made and the design.

The likelyhood of you keeping a bike to the end of its' useful life is almost zero, so you should be considering all bikes that might meet your needs, both today and tomorrow.

You cannot analyze a bicycle like a piece of electronic equipment. Bicycles are open to personal interpretations of their characteristics. You can tell very little about a bike merely by looking at the material it is made from. You need to ride everything you can lay your hands on.

By all means, go for some good steel and hang onto your F's, F2's, RB-67's, 500CM's, and their hard lenses & prism finders.... ;)