Touring - windsor tourist 2009

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist.htm

has anyone purchased a more recent model for touring? i have searched and found reviews for 06 and 05, nothing with the recent changes.

its something i am looking into since i dont have a ton of cash to splash for my trip, and this is something that i have heard good things about with the older models for how much it is.

If you could squeeze together $200 more.....

No personal experience with it but... I've seen it in person and it's a pretty sharp looking bike. That being said... For $200 more you can get a Novara Rondanee at this time on clearance with actual bike setup and a warranty that BD can't touch. It's your money though.

I would suggest the Fuji touring also from Performance for the very same reason and it's the same bike as the BD.

If your handy with the tools then... Go for it. Just be aware that if anything goes wrong it will not be the same 100% satisfaction or your money back refund policy with the two I mentioned.

A few on this board have them and have toured tons with success.

the bottom line is that this will be a servicable bike; not entirely a POS, just nearly so. it will get you where you are going. if you look at the specs, 80% of the components, including the frame, are windsor brand; i.e. cheapest available. don't expect the hubs and bottom brackets to last very long. it's also going to be heavy; notice that there is no weight info. also don't be fooled be the "list price"; this bike has alwas been price point. if you do get this bike, i wouldn't let any sales people try to let you upgrade to better components. stick with bottom shelf parts and save your money for a better bike down the road. and if you let this bike go to hell, you won't need to feel bad about it.

if you are really strapped for cash, why not go for the Mercier Galaxy Road Bike? it's no worse and much cheaper. and at least the tubing is from reynolds. (just make sure it has enough eyelets for both rack and fenders. it's hard to tell from the pics)

otherwise i'd suggest that you try getting your hands on a used trek, rei Novara Rondanee, fuji, jamis aurora, etc. you should be able to get one for the same amount of cash and it'll be a much better bike all around, even if a few components need to be replaced immediately. ;)

if it's as good as a fuji touring then it's a good deal. I found the fuji tourist to be very comfortable

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist.htm

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/images/tourist_sml.jpg

has anyone purchased a more recent model for touring? i have searched and found reviews for 06 and 05, nothing with the recent changes.

its something i am looking into since i don't have a ton of cash to splash for my trip, and this is something that i have heard good things about with the older models for how much it is.


The Windsor Tourist is a nice bike and an excellent value for $599...:thumb:

Have you also considered the 2010 Motobecane Fantom CX for $559?
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_cx3.htm

http://bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/images/cx3org_side600.jpg

the bottom line is that this will be a servicable bike; not entirely a POS, just nearly so. it will get you where you are going. if you look at the specs, 80% of the components, including the frame, are windsor brand; i.e. cheapest available. don't expect the hubs and bottom brackets to last very long. it's also going to be heavy; notice that there is no weight info. also don't be fooled be the "list price"; this bike has alwas been price point. if you do get this bike, i wouldn't let any sales people try to let you upgrade to better components. stick with bottom shelf parts and save your money for a better bike down the road. and if you let this bike go to hell, you won't need to feel bad about it.

if you are really strapped for cash, why not go for the Mercier Galaxy Road Bike? it's no worse and much cheaper. and at least the tubing is from reynolds. (just make sure it has enough eyelets for both rack and fenders. it's hard to tell from the pics)

otherwise i'd suggest that you try getting your hands on a used trek, rei Novara Rondanee, fuji, jamis aurora, etc. you should be able to get one for the same amount of cash and it'll be a much better bike all around, even if a few components need to be replaced immediately. ;)

hmm, one of my bikes is an '09 Windsor Tourist and I have a few opinions about it after a thousand miles or so.

First off, to address philso's points, I don't agree that it is "not entirely a POS, just nearly so" as mentioned above. Not sure why you would say that, and then suggest later on to buy a Fuji tourer instead, as they are virtually the same bike. Secondly, the components are not "windsor brand". No such thing, virtually no bike/frame maker manufactures components, and the comment belies a basic misunderstanding of the bike biz. Many of the components on the Tourist are the same as on a Jamis Aurora, for instance. I didn't have the option to upgrade components either, as there really aren't sales people, just some people that answer phones and take orders - in other words, there are no options, the bike is what it is.

Now, having gotten that out of the way, here are my findings:

1. the frame is not that heavy for a touring bike, about average in fact. and is 4130 steel (again, it is the same frame as the Fuji tourer).
2. components have held up well, there are some complaints on some threads on these boards about the bottom bracket going after a short time, but so far that has not been an issue for me.
3. the included rear rack is nothing special, I use it for commuting, but would probably use my blackburn rack for longer touring. And, btw, the Mercier Galaxy does not have braze-ons for mounting a front pannier rack.
4. The pedals are silly, very narrow, and really not much use for anyone with an average foot width. Throw them away.
5. Now, the wheels. There are numerous threads on these boards about the machine made wheels on both BD and Fuji tourers, particularly the rear wheels. I have to agree, and after breaking a few spokes and having the rear wheel trued a few times, I finally broke down and had my LBS rebuild the wheel using the same rim and hub and with heavier spokes. I have had no issues since then.

My overall analysis of this bike is that it is a good performer - and in terms of value , keeping in mind some of the complaints on these boards, I think that if you had to, you could rebuild the rear wheel, replace the pedals, replace the bottom bracket, AND get a different rear rack and STILL come out spending less on it than comparable new bicycles, starting with the Fuji.

06 I got 12,000 miles on my first one, I just replaced it.

08 I got 7700 miles on my second one.

These things are built like a tank.

06 I got 12,000 miles on my first one, I just replaced it.

08 I got 7700 miles on my second one.

These things are built like a tank.

Why only 12K miles? What went wrong or did you just want something newer?

Why only 12K miles? What went wrong or did you just want something newer?

Agreed.


Why are people discarding these bikes with so little miles? LOL! If anyone on the forum is discarding their Trek 520 after 12K miles, please send me a PM!

Why only 12K miles? What went wrong or did you just want something newer?

I bought a back up bike. I am car free. I wanted the same thing.

I bought my Windsor Tourist about two years ago, and I rode it to work (about 15 miles) May thru October both in 08 and 09 about three or four times a week; It has had two repairs. One was the rear tube that I replaced myself. The other was a broken spoke replacement and rear wheel true that I had done at the Broadway Bicycle School for $25. That's it.

By the way, I can confirm that the bike is nearly identical to the Fuji Tourer, but it doesn't have the suicide levers. I have seen them side by side.

Yes many of the parts are no-name, but this isn't an expensive bike either. I like the Tiagra shifters. I never use the big chainring.

[QUOTE=Trueblood;10309591]...

"...Secondly, the components are not "windsor brand". No such thing, virtually no bike/frame maker manufactures components, and the comment belies a basic misunderstanding of the bike biz. ..."

windsor brand as listed on spec page( http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist.htm#specs ):

Main Frame Windsor custom butted 4130 Cro-Moly, Double water bottle mounts
Rear Triangle Windsor custom tapered Cro-Moly with forged dropout, Spare spoke holder, rack mounts, 130mm rear spacing
Fork Windsor custom tapered Cro-Moly, front Rack Brazeons
Front Hub Windsor Sealed Alloy Road, 36H
Stem Windsor Superlight Road Aluminum, 0 Degree, 1" Removable Clamp
Tape/Grip Windsor custom cork wrap Black
Saddle Windsor Sport "Crater" Touring
Seat Clamp New Windsor Ultralite alloy, Lazer etched

the exact point is not that they don't manufacture their own, but that they claim to;when in reality , to put the best spin on it, they are either having a manufacturer produce these parts to their own specs or just picking up the cheapest ones available and trying to make it sound good, which is what i suspect.

" Many of the components on the Tourist are the same as on a Jamis Aurora, for instance."
true! the same or about the same quality. dependable probably describes them best:

Front Derailleur Shimano Tiagra, clamp-on, 31.8mm
Rear Derailleur Shimano Deore, 9-speed
Shifters Shimano Tiagra STI, 9-speed

i'm guessing these are all right, though i don't really know:

Cassette/Freewheel SRAM 9-speed, 11-32T
Tires Kenda Eurotrek, 700 x 32c, presta valve tubes
Crankset TruVativ Touro Cold Forged Road, 30/42/52T
Pedals Wellgo Alloy Road w/ clips and straps

the gearing is pretty nice

no name components:

Chain SuperNarrow 9-Speed
Brake Set Tektro Oryx Cantilever
Brake Levers Shimano Tiagra, 9-speed STI
Rear Hub Sealed Bearing Freehub, 36H, 130mm rear spacing
Seat Post Superlite Micro Adjust alloy, 250mm, 27.2
Rims Double Wall Aluminum, 36H, CNC sidewall
Headset Sealed 1"
Handlebar 6061 Butted Road, Anatomical Drops
Bottom Bracket Sealed cartridge

chromium molybdemum steel is good, and 4130 is Cro-Moly. but my understanding is that 4230 is the generic stuff and isn't as good as Reynolds and Columbus. i'm not a metalurgist, but this seems to be the general scuttlebutt.

"I didn't have the option to upgrade components either, as there really aren't sales people, just some people that answer phones and take orders - in other words, there are no options, the bike is what it is."
i was thinking of upgrading as the components need replacing.

"And, btw, the Mercier Galaxy does not have braze-ons for mounting a front pannier rack."
good point! those pics aren't very much use. and i didn't take the time to investigate, but the geometry didn't look as good. but for $200 cheaper, probably ok for someone with no money to spend. on the other hand, the windsor chainstays are pretty short for a touring bike.

"My overall analysis of this bike is that it is a good performer "
i called it servicable. my "nearly POS" may have been a little strong, but marketing hype of mediocre products really turns me off.

the dependability of the shimano parts and the gearing are what save this bike from actually being what i implied. i think i'd still try for a used better bike, though.

[Main Frame Windsor custom butted 4130 Cro-Moly, Double water bottle mounts
Rear Triangle Windsor custom tapered Cro-Moly with forged dropout, Spare spoke holder, rack mounts, 130mm rear spacing
Fork Windsor custom tapered Cro-Moly, front Rack Brazeons
This is the frame set. Of course, it's a "Windsor". Why did you list these?


Front Hub Windsor Sealed Alloy Road, 36H
This is one "good" example.


Stem Windsor Superlight Road Aluminum, 0 Degree, 1" Removable Clamp
No big deal.


Seat Clamp New Windsor Ultralite alloy, Lazer etched
No big deal. (How many manufacterers list this as made by anybody special?


Tape/Grip Windsor custom cork wrap Black
You have got to be kidding!


Saddle Windsor Sport "Crater" Touring
Not that big a deal.


the exact point is not that they don't manufacture their own, but that they claim to;when in reality , to put the best spin on it, they are either having a manufacturer produce these parts to their own specs or just picking up the cheapest ones available and trying to make it sound good, which is what i suspect.
Calling it "Windsor" doesn't make it "sound good". It's a $600 bike. I'm not sure what you expect. Anyway, it's pretty standard for brands, like Trek, to have other companies make components for with their labels.


" Many of the components on the Tourist are the same as on a Jamis Aurora, for instance."
true! the same or about the same quality. dependable probably describes them best:

Front Derailleur Shimano Tiagra, clamp-on, 31.8mm
Rear Derailleur Shimano Deore, 9-speed
Shifters Shimano Tiagra STI, 9-speed
These are completely fine and found on more expensive bikes.


i'm guessing these are all right, though i don't really know:

Cassette/Freewheel SRAM 9-speed, 11-32T
Tires Kenda Eurotrek, 700 x 32c, presta valve tubes
Crankset TruVativ Touro Cold Forged Road, 30/42/52T
Pedals Wellgo Alloy Road w/ clips and straps
These are probably OK (it's a $600 bike). The pedals are cheap.


no name components:

Chain SuperNarrow 9-Speed
Brake Set Tektro Oryx Cantilever
Brake Levers Shimano Tiagra, 9-speed STI
Rear Hub Sealed Bearing Freehub, 36H, 130mm rear spacing
Seat Post Superlite Micro Adjust alloy, 250mm, 27.2
Rims Double Wall Aluminum, 36H, CNC sidewall
Headset Sealed 1"
Handlebar 6061 Butted Road, Anatomical Drops
Bottom Bracket Sealed cartridge
The Tektro brakes are very standard (replace the pads). The brifters are very standard and work fine. Seat posts and handle bars, who cares? The other stuff might so great (but it's a $600 bike).


chromium molybdemum steel is good, and 4130 is Cro-Moly. but my understanding is that 4230 is the generic stuff and isn't as good as Reynolds and Columbus. i'm not a metalurgist, but this seems to be the general scuttlebutt.
Branded tubing is going to make the bike much more expensive. And the well-liked (and more expensive) Surley LHT doesn't use branded tubing.


i called it servicable. my "nearly POS" may have been a little strong, but marketing hype of mediocre products really turns me off.

the dependability of the shimano parts and the gearing are what save this bike from actually being what i implied. i think i'd still try for a used better bike, though.
"Marketing hype" of anything is a turn-off. It appears that people do fine with this (and the Fuji Touring) except for the wheels.

If you could squeeze together $200 more.....

No personal experience with it but... I've seen it in person and it's a pretty sharp looking bike. That being said... For $200 more you can get a Novara Rondanee at this time on clearance with actual bike setup and a warranty that BD can't touch. It's your money though.


This is what I would do. I've always felt the Randonee is a solid bike, and the REI customer service is excellent.

There's a guy on here who bought 2 Windsors and rode across the country with his daughter(?) Anyway, I've heard him say he had no trouble with them.

I met a guy in Glacier who had ridden a Fuji Tourist there from Buffalo. He had wheel troubles, and replaced them in Yellowstone. He wasn't carrying much weight. Other that that, he was very satisfied with his bike.

No matter what bike you end up with, I'd suggest having a good mechanic check out the wheels - especially the rear - and make sure theiry tour worthy. It might just take a little tweaking to get the tensioning correct. It could make a big difference. I've had troubles with spokes breaking before that ruined a tour. Since I've paid extra attention to the rear wheel prior to going on tour I've never broken a spoke. (But I now have the tools to replace one and carry a couple of spares.)

This is what I would do. I've always felt the Randonee is a solid bike, and the REI customer service is excellent.

There's a guy on here who bought 2 Windsors and rode across the country with his daughter(?) Anyway, I've heard him say he had no trouble with them.

I met a guy in Glacier who had ridden a Fuji Tourist there from Buffalo. He had wheel troubles, and replaced them in Yellowstone. He wasn't carrying much weight.

No matter what bike you end up with, I'd suggest having a good mechanice check out the wheels - especially the rear - and make sure theiry tour worthy. It might just take a little tweaking to get the tensioning correct. It could make a big difference. I've had troubles with spokes breaking before that ruined a tour. Since I've paid extra attention to the rear wheel prior to going on tour I've never broken a spoke. (But I now have the tools to replace one and carry a couple of spares.)

Roy has 40,000 miles on his.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/The%20Real%2042%20South%20Ride/IMG_5879.jpg

hmmm, for the winsor, they have size of 54 cm and 58. i am 5'9 and would fit confortable on a 56cm. which one would be ideal size?

looking online i have the option of a 54 or a 58 for my size.

hmmm, for the winsor, they have size of 54 cm and 58. i am 5'9 and would fit confortable on a 56cm. which one would be ideal size?

looking online i have the option of a 54 or a 58 for my size.

If you're not sure... buying online isn't a great idea. Just sayin. I'm taller than you and would never consider a 58 because I know what size fits me. Would the 54 fit? Maybe.

Good luck. Hope it fits.

probably the 54. I'm 5' 11" and usually ride a 56, but one of my bikes is a 54 and it was very easy to make it fit nicely. getting a frame that's too big can be pretty difficult to modify to make it fit better. at least that's been the case for me.

[QUOTE=Trueblood;10309591]...

"...Secondly, the components are not "windsor brand". No such thing, virtually no bike/frame maker manufactures components, and the comment belies a basic misunderstanding of the bike biz. ..."

windsor brand as listed on spec page( http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist.htm#specs ):

Main Frame Windsor custom butted 4130 Cro-Moly, Double water bottle mounts
Rear Triangle Windsor custom tapered Cro-Moly with forged dropout, Spare spoke holder, rack mounts, 130mm rear spacing
Fork Windsor custom tapered Cro-Moly, front Rack Brazeons
Front Hub Windsor Sealed Alloy Road, 36H
Stem Windsor Superlight Road Aluminum, 0 Degree, 1" Removable Clamp
Tape/Grip Windsor custom cork wrap Black
Saddle Windsor Sport "Crater" Touring
Seat Clamp New Windsor Ultralite alloy, Lazer etched

the exact point is not that they don't manufacture their own, but that they claim to;when in reality , to put the best spin on it, they are either having a manufacturer produce these parts to their own specs or just picking up the cheapest ones available and trying to make it sound good, which is what i suspect.

" Many of the components on the Tourist are the same as on a Jamis Aurora, for instance."
true! the same or about the same quality. dependable probably describes them best:

Front Derailleur Shimano Tiagra, clamp-on, 31.8mm
Rear Derailleur Shimano Deore, 9-speed
Shifters Shimano Tiagra STI, 9-speed

i'm guessing these are all right, though i don't really know:

Cassette/Freewheel SRAM 9-speed, 11-32T
Tires Kenda Eurotrek, 700 x 32c, presta valve tubes
Crankset TruVativ Touro Cold Forged Road, 30/42/52T
Pedals Wellgo Alloy Road w/ clips and straps

the gearing is pretty nice

no name components:

Chain SuperNarrow 9-Speed
Brake Set Tektro Oryx Cantilever
Brake Levers Shimano Tiagra, 9-speed STI
Rear Hub Sealed Bearing Freehub, 36H, 130mm rear spacing
Seat Post Superlite Micro Adjust alloy, 250mm, 27.2
Rims Double Wall Aluminum, 36H, CNC sidewall
Headset Sealed 1"
Handlebar 6061 Butted Road, Anatomical Drops
Bottom Bracket Sealed cartridge

chromium molybdemum steel is good, and 4130 is Cro-Moly. but my understanding is that 4230 is the generic stuff and isn't as good as Reynolds and Columbus. i'm not a metalurgist, but this seems to be the general scuttlebutt.

"I didn't have the option to upgrade components either, as there really aren't sales people, just some people that answer phones and take orders - in other words, there are no options, the bike is what it is."
i was thinking of upgrading as the components need replacing.

"And, btw, the Mercier Galaxy does not have braze-ons for mounting a front pannier rack."
good point! those pics aren't very much use. and i didn't take the time to investigate, but the geometry didn't look as good. but for $200 cheaper, probably ok for someone with no money to spend. on the other hand, the windsor chainstays are pretty short for a touring bike.

"My overall analysis of this bike is that it is a good performer "
i called it servicable. my "nearly POS" may have been a little strong, but marketing hype of mediocre products really turns me off.

the dependability of the shimano parts and the gearing are what save this bike from actually being what i implied. i think i'd still try for a used better bike, though.


Thanks for the breakdown on the components. I know many people dislike BD's marketing. For myself, I guess there are lots of products I like and use, while at the same time not caring for their marketing techniques. Interestingly enough, on the Fuji site for their tourer, they seem to do the same thing even though the frames for the Windsor Tourist and Fuji and both made in the same factory in China. My understanding from other threads on this site is that most steel touring frames are made in one or two factories there.

http://www.fujibikes.com/LifeStyle/ClassicSeries/Touring.aspx

From the above link:

Main frame Fuji Elios 2 custom butted Cro-Moly with outer butted seat tube, Double water bottle mounts
Fork Fuji 1" Custom Tapered Cro-Moly, with Low Rider mounts
Front hub Fuji Sealed Alloy Road, 36H
Rear hub Fuji Sealed Alloy Body and Cassette, 36H
Rims Fuji Double Wall Aluminum, 36H, Black CNC sidewall
Headset Fuji 1" Threaded Alloy Road W/Roller Bearing
Handlebar Fuji 6061 Butted Road, Anatomical Drops
Stem Fuji Superlight Road Aluminum, 0 Degree, Removable Clamp
Tape/grip Fuji custom cork wrap
Saddle Fuji Road Sport Anatomical Saddle
Seat post Fuji Superlite Micro Adjust alloy, 250mm
Seat clamp Fuji Ultralite alloy, 28.6mm, Laser etched

Jamis seems to do it a little less on their site, but still brands certain parts they don't make - http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/aurora/10_aurora_spec.html
Grips
Jamis natural cork bar tape

Saddle
Jamis Touring Sport with satin steel rails

Surly brands their LHT frames, as one would expect, which I notice are also 4130 steel - http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker_complete/

FrameSurly Long Haul Trucker, 100% Surly 4130 CroMoly steel. Main triangle double butted. TIG-welded
ForkSurly Long Haul Trucker, 100% CroMoly, lugged and brazed. 1-1/8" threadless steer tube uncut
Seatpost ClampSurly Stainless, Natural Silver

I guess there are plenty of products that are hyped or over-hyped, some are good, some not, and bicyclists being so passionate about bikes, BD can put some people off. The trick is not to dismiss the product entirely - just disregard the hype.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist.htm

has anyone purchased a more recent model for touring? i have searched and found reviews for 06 and 05, nothing with the recent changes.

its something i am looking into since i dont have a ton of cash to splash for my trip, and this is something that i have heard good things about with the older models for how much it is.

Three of us bought them in 2007 to do the Trans America. They served us well and all three of us were quite happy with them. We have all continued to ride them since then with no complaints.

The spec doesn't look like they have changed much if at all. I would suggest a crank that will allow lower gearing if you will be touring where it is hilly. We used a Sugino XD600.

Just purchased a 2010 recently and with only 12 miles can't say much. At this point I'm very happy. I couldn't manage a $1000 expenditure. I will use it for my 16 mile commute. I'm 5'9" and have the 54cm and the fit is perfect for me.

Buy the REI Rondonee. for the extra $200 you can get the bike custom fitted by someone who knows what they are doing. If you have to rebuild the rear wheel on the Windsor during your trip or bottom bracket then you will almost pass the rondonee in price anyways. If something goes wrong with the Rondonee on tour, unlikely, then you can go to ANY REI in the country and get it fixed for free. The REI return police is badass as well. If you decide you just dont like it in a few months, size, fit, weight, whatever, then you can also return it. That kind of NATION wide service can not be matched by ANY local bicycle shop let alone an internet dealer like BD.... The rear rack on the Rondonee is also much more substantial than the Windsor which saves you more money since I would want to replace that component too.

Buy the REI Rondonee. for the extra $200 you can get the bike custom fitted by someone who knows what they are doing. If you have to rebuild the rear wheel on the Windsor during your trip or bottom bracket then you will almost pass the rondonee in price anyways. If something goes wrong with the Rondonee on tour, unlikely, then you can go to ANY REI in the country and get it fixed for free. The REI return police is badass as well. If you decide you just dont like it in a few months, size, fit, weight, whatever, then you can also return it. That kind of NATION wide service can not be matched by ANY local bicycle shop let alone an internet dealer like BD.... The rear rack on the Rondonee is also much more substantial than the Windsor which saves you more money since I would want to replace that component too.

According to this - http://www.rei.com/product/796696 - the Randonee is $400 more. That would cover a bit more than a rear wheel rebuild and a bottom bracket and a rear rack. I agree though about REI in terms of having any issues with the bike and assistance with sizing.

According to this - http://www.rei.com/product/796696 - the Randonee is $400 more. That would cover a bit more than a rear wheel rebuild and a bottom bracket and a rear rack. I agree though about REI in terms of having any issues with the bike and assistance with sizing.

They were on sale recently for $800 and I have seen them as low as $750. Go into your local REI and have them call around for your size. Maybe the sale is over? However, each store always has one or two in stock and they are not exactly fast sellers, no touring bike is. Thats why you can often get them so cheap. Over the course of the life of the bike the service will be invaluable, especially to someone who is just starting out and does not even know what size frame to buy. I just dont see the internet sites as being a good option for that kind of buyer. I do think that the Windsor is a quality bike for the price. However, for just a little more there is a lot that can be gained.

The Novara Randonee Touring Bike at REI only goes up to a medium at 55cm?

http://www.rei.com/product/776887

The Novara Randonee Touring Bike at REI only goes up to a medium at 55cm?

http://www.rei.com/product/776887

Ahh so they are still on sale for $799! I think that they only have those sizes for the sale price. Use this link to buy the larger sizes that are not on sale... I guess.

http://www.rei.com/product/796696

wow, that is mind blowing. also, where they have larger sizes they don't list the measurement

In a few weeeks............ All Norvara bikes will go on sale. Should start the 1st of Feb. or close to it. When that happens you will be able to pick up the 2010 for 20% off retail price. So $800 and all sizes available for members.

REI still has some 2009 Randonees on sale but there are limited sizes. The 2010 is priced at $999 and is not on sale...yet. There are some minor differences in components.

I know many people dislike BD's marketing.
BD's marketing sucks. But it should be clear to anybody with a some knowlege that they are BSing.


Jamis seems to do it a little less on their site, but still brands certain parts they don't make
Every manufacterer does it. I don't think anybody is fooled by it. One reason it is done is so that the manufacterer can use different sources for things. While it might be nice to have a particilar brand of "cork tape" (really?), one way manufacterers can control the price is not to be tied to a particular manufacterer. If you really want brands for minor components, expect to pay more for the bike.


Surly brands their LHT frames, as one would expect, which I notice are also 4130 steel
Surly doesn't use name-brand tubing because it would make the frame much more expensive. While it might be nice having name brand tubing, it really might not matter that much (as long as what they are using is good and the frame is put together competently). If you really want a brand for tubing, expect to pay more for the bike.


I guess there are plenty of products that are hyped or over-hyped, some are good, some not, and bicyclists being so passionate about bikes, BD can put some people off. The trick is not to dismiss the product entirely - just disregard the hype.
BD is particularly bad with the "hyping".

[QUOTE=Trueblood;10309591]...

"...Secondly, the components are not "windsor brand". No such thing, virtually no bike/frame maker manufactures components, and the comment belies a basic misunderstanding of the bike biz. ..."

windsor brand as listed on spec page( http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/tourist.htm#specs ):

Main Frame Windsor custom butted 4130 Cro-Moly, Double water bottle mounts
Rear Triangle Windsor custom tapered Cro-Moly with forged dropout, Spare spoke holder, rack mounts, 130mm rear spacing
Fork Windsor custom tapered Cro-Moly, front Rack Brazeons
Front Hub Windsor Sealed Alloy Road, 36H
Stem Windsor Superlight Road Aluminum, 0 Degree, 1" Removable Clamp
Tape/Grip Windsor custom cork wrap Black
Saddle Windsor Sport "Crater" Touring
Seat Clamp New Windsor Ultralite alloy, Lazer etched

the exact point is not that they don't manufacture their own, but that they claim to;when in reality , to put the best spin on it, they are either having a manufacturer produce these parts to their own specs or just picking up the cheapest ones available and trying to make it sound good, which is what i suspect.


They are not claiming anything, there are four ways to source a component,

1) Make it yourself
2) Contract to someone else to make it, your specs.
3) Contract to someone else to make it, their specs.
4) Use branding to allow you to use the part-du-jour.

Let me explain that last one, you have a collection of parts by various manufacturers, you use them interchangeably, you use your own branding so that you don't need to change the web page every month as you get in new parts from another source. For utility parts like bars, stems, seat posts, where there is little difference between parts, this is more common then you think.

Three of us bought them in 2007 to do the Trans America. They served us well and all three of us were quite happy with them. We have all continued to ride them since then with no complaints.

The spec doesn't look like they have changed much if at all. I would suggest a crank that will allow lower gearing if you will be touring where it is hilly. We used a Sugino XD600.

Did you have any problems with spokes breaking?

I'm wondering if having the wheels rebuilt with the original spokes will be ok, or if we should get new spokes as well.

Did you have any problems with spokes breaking?

I'm wondering if having the wheels rebuilt with the original spokes will be ok, or if we should get new spokes as well.

Yes. Of the three of us one bike had some spoke breakage. It turns out that the screw that holds the stack of cogs and spacers had backed out and scored most of the rear inner spokes on the drive side. I think it probably could have happened with any bike that used the same cluster. Once the scored spokes were replaced there was no more breakage.

[QUOTE=philso;10311101]

They are not claiming anything, there are four ways to source a component,

1) Make it yourself
2) Contract to someone else to make it, your specs.
3) Contract to someone else to make it, their specs.
4) Use branding to allow you to use the part-du-jour.

Let me explain that last one, you have a collection of parts by various manufacturers, you use them interchangeably, you use your own branding so that you don't need to change the web page every month as you get in new parts from another source. For utility parts like bars, stems, seat posts, where there is little difference between parts, this is more common then you think.

My point is that there's no need to put your name on low-end parts at all in the first place and no need to change the web page every month either. adding "Windsor custom" (or "Fuji custom",　etc.) to every part not manufactured by shimano or other major manufacturer isn't going to fool anyone who knows what they're talking about, but it could influence a newbie into parting with their money by making them think that they're getting a quality product at 1/2 price. it's just bџll *****, and even though lots of makers do it, i think it would be a dis-service not to let an uninformed person who needs to ask know what the low-down is. if they then want to buy this bike because that's all they can afford & they've been told that it should at least be functional, then at least they've made an informed purchase. if on the other hand they were expecting a higher quality bike, they might want to shop around for something better either on sale or used.

so as i still see it, this is a generally low quality bike which should however be servicable and get you where you want to go. the shimano components will be durable and you'll appreciate the gearing. my major concerns would be the very short chainstays (which shows that this is not a touring specific frame) so you are likely looking at heel strike problems on the panniers, and also probably looking at toe strike if you plan on using full fenders on the front.

;)

adding "Windsor custom" (or "Fuji custom",　etc.) to every part not manufactured by shimano or other major manufacturer isn't going to fool anyone who knows what they're talking about, but it could influence a newbie into parting with their money by making them think that they're getting a quality product at 1/2 price.
I doubt that a "newbie" is going to attribute any value to a brand name like "Windor", that they know nothing about. (They might with a "familiar" brand name like "Motobecane" but it shouldn't be that hard to do a little bit of research on the intarweebs and resolve that issue.)