Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - help on losing more weight...

At my school (I teach), we are having a biggest loser competition. And well, I've been seriously getting more fit and consequently losing weight for months before this. But with the competion I'd like really like to make a go showing! I need some advice on what I should do differently to help me get off this not-quite-a-plateau I'm on...
right now. I do stairs 30+min, 4xweek. lift 3x week. eat breakfast......so...

I've considered going more low carb. Is this a good idea? anyone tried it?

what about not eating before a workout. Does this help?
Should I do more aerobic than I'm doing? or should I do more sprints?
and when I ride my ex. bike what should I be doing for the most fat burn (speed,time, etc.)

What has helped me the most has been interval training. Two days a week I throw in a 60 - 90 minute interval session where I keep my heart rate in the upper Zone 3 range for recovery and mid to upper Zone 4 range for sprints.

I second the intervals. If you want to lose weight more cardio and less weights. I've read that eating before workout helps you lose more weight because it allows you to workout longer. I guess that only applies if you're exercising as long as there's energy in the tank. Personally I'm very much against fad diets, I like eating a balanced diet but less of it if you need to lose weight. That's how I lost 45 lbs.

I've been running 3 miles 3 times a week (training for a couple sprint triathlons later this year). I've lost 10 pounds since January 1.

I've also been really sticking to my diet. Not a "diet", but just cutting out crap and cutting back on portion size.

Definitely go low carbs. Carbs convert to Glucose and your blood will always have an elevated insulin level as the insulin coverts glucose to glycogen. Insulin causes water retention. This is why people lose so much weight during the induction phase of the Atkins diet, when the insulin level drops, water is shed by the kidneys.

I would immediately stop weight training. One of the side effects of weight traing is muscular hypertrophy, or an increase in the size of your muscles. This is EXTREMELY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE if you are trying to lose weight, as muscle weighs more than fat.

The people who say "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" are either in the breakfast business or psychologically benefit from you remaining fat. When you get up in the morning, glycogen is at it's lowest level. Try to extend this period as long as possible.

Your body can only run on Glycogen. There's only 2 sources of glycogen, carbs (glucose) or the body can "crack" glycogen out of fat tissue in a process called ketosis. The low carb diet will get you into ketosis and burn fat and also improve your mood by eliminating the up and down glucose/insulin cycles.

Good luck!

1) Carbs are not the devil. Carbs are good. They provide sustained energy.
2) Eat carbs before you work out. They will provide the energy you need to really maximize your efforts.
3) Weight training is important. Yes, muscle weighs more than fat. But your body burns calories to build that muscle.
4) Breakfast is important. It kick-starts your metabolism. Also eating 5 smaller meals trumps eating 2-3 larger meals.

I'm not a doctor - I don't even play one on TV. But these are things I've been learning from actual doctors and nutritionists. It's helped me shed about 40 pounds in less than 3 months.

I have lost 53 pounds in 5 months, a few thoughts, as I have just gotten over a 5 week plateau myself:

1. Count your calories, I use this website: www.sparkpeople.com (http://www.sparkpeople.com) it is free, and it makes it real simple for you to lose weight, not only will it help you count the calories but also give you the amount of calories to eat based on what you are doing fitness wise.
2. Mix up workouts, do not do the same thing every day.
3. DO WEIGHT TRAINING, it is an easy way to break a plateau.
4. Try rollercoasting your calories, i.e. eating 2100 calories today, 2800 calories the next day, then 1800, ect. It keeps your body guessing.

I am no expert, I like you just finished a biggest loser contest at work (I won, 12 week contest, 10.4% body weight lost). I would stress counting the calories and continue weight training.

Good luck, remember, even if your not losing, your getting healthier and probably losing inches!

Another good calorie counting site: www.fitday.com

Definitely go low carbs. Carbs convert to Glucose and your blood will always have an elevated insulin level as the insulin coverts glucose to glycogen. Insulin causes water retention. This is why people lose so much weight during the induction phase of the Atkins diet, when the insulin level drops, water is shed by the kidneys.

I would immediately stop weight training. One of the side effects of weight traing is muscular hypertrophy, or an increase in the size of your muscles. This is EXTREMELY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE if you are trying to lose weight, as muscle weighs more than fat.

The people who say "breakfast is the most important meal of the day" are either in the breakfast business or psychologically benefit from you remaining fat. When you get up in the morning, glycogen is at it's lowest level. Try to extend this period as long as possible.

Your body can only run on Glycogen. There's only 2 sources of glycogen, carbs (glucose) or the body can "crack" glycogen out of fat tissue in a process called ketosis. The low carb diet will get you into ketosis and burn fat and also improve your mood by eliminating the up and down glucose/insulin cycles.

Good luck!

I'm not arguing. I just have a question...

Like most everyone, I've always been told that breakfast is the most important meal. Do you have any sources where I can do more research about what you say about not eating breakfast? I'd like to read more about it.

Here's something I found on Hammer Nutrition's web site:

SEVENTEEN CHARACTERISTICS OF AN EFFECTIVE WEIGHT LOSS PLAN

1. Reduce current refined carbohydrate intake by 50%.
2. Increase raw food vegetable and fruit intake by 25%.
3. Drink a minimum of 10 x 8-ounce glasses of water per day [chose either steam distilled or bottled water that is "chlorine and fluoride free"].
4. Cease eating after 7:00 PM.
5. Reduce or omit meats [excluding salt-water cold water fish] and dairy byproducts.
6. Exercise activity is conducted at or below 75% VO2 Max Heart Rate.
7. PERIODIC Short-term weight loss of 2-5 pounds weight loss in 20 consecutive days, followed by seven days NO calorie restriction before repeating a 2nd 20-day protocol.
8. Recommend no more than 1 pound weight loss each week.
9. Do not go below 1,500 calories per day.
10. Refer to the Food Guide Asian or Mediterranean Pyramid and Dietary Guidelines.
11. Focus on limiting fat and processed food intake rather than calories.
12. Encourage 30 minutes minimum exercise per day.
13. Include a variety of nutritionally balanced foods.
14. Minimize hunger, no-starve periods.
15. Encourage setting realistic weight loss goals and making slow, moderate changes.
16. Precedes an established lifelong "Lifestyle" protocol, balancing caloric intake with expense.
17. Remove man-made fats [TFA-Trans Fatty Acids-also know as partially or completely hydrogenated vegetable fats]; found in almost all processed baked goods.

Step #7 caught my interest. Going to research that further...

I'm not arguing. I just have a question...

Like most everyone, I've always been told that breakfast is the most important meal. Do you have any sources where I can do more research about what you say about not eating breakfast? I'd like to read more about it.

No, I don't have sources. In fact, everything I find contradicts my theory, the popular opinion says breakfast is important because carbs are needed to "wake you up" and combat lethargy from the low blood sugar level you have upon waking. So there is no support for my theory, just my personal experience that the sooner you exhaust your blood sugar, the sooner you get into fat stores...

Hey, a lot of good things to think about! well this week I gained a couple pounds! I also weight lifted 3 days this week and walked like crazy every day. Do muscles swell and gain weight after working out? They do, right? I also tried low carb, but must've not done very well at it. The last quote of healthy diet sounds veggi-eater only....

How do I find information on low carb? I'm assuming there is more to it, than just not eating carbs.

Richard_rides, you posted the same time I did....
Years ago I remember reading that cyclist would wake up and workout like mad in order to "drain" all the energy they had stored. Is this what you're talking about?

Richard_rides, you posted the same time I did....
Years ago I remember reading that cyclist would wake up and workout like mad in order to "drain" all the energy they had stored. Is this what you're talking about?

Yeppers

Another good calorie counting site: www.fitday.com

I use this site. It's helped me track calories, nutrition and exercise for the last 3 months. I've lost 45 pounds.

My intention is to continue using it when I hit my target weight to avoid the dreaded slide back up the scale.

Nice site and it's free.

As others have said, watch the caloric intake every day, I use livestrong.com but, any tool will work. Eat all day long not just 3 large meals, work on proteins and good fats, I have a fondness for shrimp. Dried fruits and nuts a handful here and there can get you past those hunger pangs. I recently started doing Bikram yoga for 90 minutes a day and have dropped 5 pounds in three days. I can't ride on the same days I do yoga, just not enough endurance to do it yet.

Reduce calories consumed.

Increase calories burned.

The people on "The Biggest Loser" eat reasonable diets and exercise 4-6 hours per day. I would assume most of that exercise is aerobic. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24097852/

I have heard that eating breakfast does help to get your metabolism going for the day...

I have also heard that the not eating at night is bogus, except that the type of foods that people tend to eat late at night are no good for you... If you are eating healthy foods, don't go to bed hungry just because of that "rule"... But then again, if you can sleep, you don't notice you ar hungry until you get up for breakfast, so it might help in that way. ;)

I lost a lot of weight this past year. I also reduced my carb intake significantly. However, I am not on a low carb diet -- in fact, I am eating away on two thick, bready square slices of cheese pizza right now.

I lost my weight by eating fewer carbs and by making a conscious effort to burn off the carbs that I did eat. Nowadays, when I eat them, like today, I will be sure to do a few hours of exercise (at least one hour of it will be very intensive).

Here is my experience: Basically, I found that the carbs available in our average diet far exceeds what I can reasonably burn. If I am planning to ride a century or go out on a rugged hike, up and down dozens of steep hills in the freezing cold, then -- sure! -- I'll load up on serious amounts of carbs. However, if I am just sitting on my tush in the car, driving from...say, Ohio out to Arizona, with nary a pause, I would eat no carbs at all.

By going from 230 lbs down to 190, I lost about 18% of my weight in less than a year. I did it primarily by putting myself in constant motion. I ditched the TV and focused on being active instead of sedentary. I also dropped eating most of the cooked vegetable oils (unsaturated fats) and almost all the animal fats, sticking now mostly to cooking with coconut oil and eating only buffalo meat and fish, like salmon, trout or halibut, if anything. Lastly, I lowered the carb intake by dropping the breads and pasta unless engaged in heavy activity.

good luck with the weight loss, OP.

Edited to add: Of the 40 lbs lost last year, 20 of them were gained in the year before. Also, 10 lbs were gained over the two years prior to that. So, in effect, over the past four to five years, I have had a net loss of 8 lbs.

I would immediately stop weight training. One of the side effects of weight traing is muscular hypertrophy, or an increase in the size of your muscles. This is EXTREMELY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE if you are trying to lose weight, as muscle weighs more than fat.

Huh? Weight training will just lead to burning calories. One will not increase the size of their muscles from weight training unless the body has an excess of calories (i.e. food eaten, especially protein) that it can use to build muscle with. I read posts like this and I wonder what people think. Do they think somehow the body takes existing fat and converts it to muscle and then somehow it magically weighs more than it did when it was fat? It doesn't work that way!

If the OP is eating right (i.e. fewer calories than he's burning), weight training CAN NOT lead to big muscles nor can it lead to weight gain. The only thing we can do to our bodies to make them weigh more is eat. Weight can only come on to the body through our mouths.

The key to weight loss is simple: eat less. And it takes a lot less effort to do nothing (i.e. don't eat that food item) than it takes to do something (ride a bike, lift weights, whatever). So be lazy and lose weight!

For me, weight lifting is far better for FAT loss than cardio. Cardio-only tended to reduce my overall muscle mass (which lowers the amount of calories I burn). Circuit training works very well but should not be started until you've got a couple of weeks of weight training under your belt.

Huh? Weight training will just lead to burning calories. One will not increase the size of their muscles from weight training unless the body has an excess of calories !

If you are "weight training" and not achieving any results, then you are doing it wrong. Try adding some weight to that bar.


I read posts like this and I wonder what people think. Do they think somehow the body takes existing fat and converts it to muscle and then somehow it magically weighs more than it did when it was fat? It doesn't work that way!

This is whats called a "straw man argument". You are claiming I said something I did not. Nowhere in my post did I say that fat tissue converts to muscle tissue, yet here you are attacking me for things I never said. This is a logical fallacy.

I don't feel obligated to defend arguments I didn't make. You are probably used to winning arguments against children with such a ruse but grown ups recognize these foolish tactics immediately.

If you are "weight training" and not achieving any results, then you are doing it wrong. Try adding some weight to that bar.

The specific "result" you mentioned was weight gain. You can't gain weight through weight training regardless of how much weight you put on the bar: you have to put the weight into your body through your mouth. In other words, without an excess of calories being eaten, you can't build muscle and come out weighing more than you did previously. It's just impossible.



This is whats called a "straw man argument". You are claiming I said something I did not. Nowhere in my post did I say that fat tissue converts to muscle tissue, yet here you are attacking me for things I never said. This is a logical fallacy.

I don't feel obligated to defend arguments I didn't make. You are probably used to winning arguments against children with such a ruse but grown ups recognize these foolish tactics immediately.

It's not a strawman because I didn't claim you said anything. It was attempting to figure out how you think a body gets heavier. You can see in my language that I said "do they think," and phrases like that. I was wondering if some people think fat becomes muscle or something because there is no other idea I can think of that would lead one to believe that lifting weights can make a person heavier. If that's not the reason you believe what you do, then please post an explanation of this theory of yours that we can discuss.

Bottom line: there is no way for a human body to get heavier except through its mouth. If one is eating fewer calories than he is burning, he will lose weight. Period. He can spend an hour a day lifting weights and he cannot gain weight. He will burn additional calories and lose even more weight.

You can't gain weight through weight training regardless of how much weight you put on the bar

Thank you for helping me with this, I was obviously misinformed.

25% working out, 25% rest, 50% diet. I weight trained for 3 years, gaining over 40lbs and dropping ~9% body fat. You can gain alot of weight from working out. Its knowing how to use the workout, diet and rest time to achieve the results you want. Dedication.

That was along time ago. Since then, over the course of 6 years, I gained 40 more lbs of pure fat, and over the last year dropped it all, 220 down to 180.

When dropping weight, never go for the quick fix. Take your time and never stop burning calories. Cycling helps in burning calories, but if you really want to drop lbs, work the midsection about 2-3 times a week. Cycling doesn't seem to hit us were we want it to. Do a wide variety of ab routines for the best results. Doing the same crunches or machine work all the time will slow down the process. You have to make your muscle work in different was as often as possible.

I found that rock climbing helps a lot, it forces you to build a strong and lean midsection.

Enjoy what you are doing, even when it hurts. Is that sick of me to think that way? :twitchy:

Eat your fruits and veggies too, its not all about rice and chicken breast. Well, other things if you're a vegetarian, as I have been for 28 year (I'm 28yrs old;)) Don't rely on tofu and other soy products for protein, mix it up.


Ride on

Thank you for helping me with this, I was obviously misinformed.


Instead of trying to be cute, how about you start over and explain to us how you think a person can possibly gain weight through weight training. Because you claimed "One of the side effects of weight traing is muscular hypertrophy, or an increase in the size of your muscles. This is EXTREMELY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE if you are trying to lose weight, as muscle weighs more than fat."

You need to come up with some explanation for that claim that will make sense. One cannot increase the size of their muscles unless they are eating too much. No one who is trying to lose weight would be eating too much since the very first step they must do is provide a calorie deficit. So, if that person then went and lifted weights, they cannot increase the weight of their body. It's impossible. So please come up with some sort of explanation for what it was you were trying to say.

Instead of trying to be cute, how about you start over and explain to us how you think a person can possibly gain weight through weight training.

I'm agreeing with you. You're preaching to the choir, it's humanly impossible to gain weight through weightlifting.

135242

He gained that weight by eating.

If a guy eats 10,000 extra calories and sits on the couch he'll add about 3 lbs.

If a guy eats 10,000 extra calories and lifts weights, he'll add < 3 lbs. pounds.

If a guy eats 10,000 fewer calories than his static then he'll lose about 3 lbs.

If a guy eats 10,000 fewer calories than his static and lifts weights, he'll lose > 3 lbs.

Log the calories - I use Lose It! on my iPhone - its free and very enlightening 50 down since May and 30 to go by June.

Alot of the advice basically boils down to "eat less, workout more." I agree with that premise, but I noticed one key thing the original poster stated.... PLATEAU.



I have not had to try and lose weight in a long time and am very active in multi sport and strength training. I am one of those lean "clydesdales" that should NOT be classified a clyde. Anyway, you need to break through the plateau. That is VERY difficult. My advice is to get off the stair stepper or whatever cardio machine you are using regularly. Switch to an entirely new form of excercise. Look into cross fit training or something like that. I cannot express how important it is to really make a change. Even going from the stair machine to the elliptical or treadmill wont do it, IMO, based on my experiences.



Your diet needs variety also. I hate low carb diets. Yes they work but are simply not a long term solution. If you want to do low carb, do a cycle of low carb to low GI (glycemic index) diet. Remember, your diet can use variety too. Several months of the exact same caloric intake will create a plateau also.



Ultimately, the advice to reduce caloric intake and increase caloric expenditure is correct. Every person is different. I have experienced many plateau's over the years. They are hard to overcome.

Perhaps one reason people plateau is that they don't reduce their caloric intake as they go. At 230 lbs., their BMR is about 2,200 calories a day, but at 200 lbs. it is down to 1,950 calories. So you start out with a plan to eat a certain number of calories and exercise a certain amount that will have you losing, say, a pound a week. But as you get lighter, your BMR reduces and you also burn fewer calories for the same amount of working out. So you plateau and won't lose any more weight until you either reduce calories further or work out more.

Pacificaslim, yes we know JUST lifting weights doesn't build muscle. Its HOW you lift, and HOW you eat. If you lift HARD (tons of weight with low reps) you'll be doing alot of micro tearing of the muscles. If you do this then eat too little, you'll over work the muscles and get injured. The muscle tissue will not fully recover because you have not provided enough nutrients to repair the damage. If, on the other hand you stick with light weights and higher reps, you'll still be working out the muscles. But the micro tearing will be at a minimum. You'll still be burning tons of calories through working the muscle, just not damaging it to the same extent, thus don't need to physically repair as much muscle tissue. Yes when you lift hard you are actually damaging muscle tissue, in a good way. :)

We all agree diet is a MASSIVE factor in weight loss and gain, but knowing HOW to lift to get lean/big, is important as well.

If you are trying to drop fat, do as pacificaslim says, reduce calories, work out more, but do so as if your training all your muscles to be long distance runner. High repetition (12 reps minimum on any given movement), lowish weight mixing up the work out and doing as much free weights as possible. Adding lifting to your cardio program will VASTLY increase fat loss, just do it properly. I see far too many people at the gym that have poor form, form is VERY important in heavy and light lifting.

Arnold was a beast back in the day, rent 'Pumping Iron' some day. That's heavy lifting.

Thanks for all the replies. I got some more questions for those of you that brough up new info. I hope you'll answer if you can.

Yes, I'm sort of plateauing. At best I lose a pound or two, at worst I gain a pound or two.

So some of you are saying that muscle building only happens if I put the calories into it? So, working out will add no weight to my body?

And otee453, Since my main workout has been walking the stairs at school, I should stop that and do something else? Such as riding my bike at home for my primary cardio and do stairs once a week or so. And also change my weight lifting routine as well?

And since I'm 260, 6' should I consider jogging? (I hate running though, and it has not been on my list of exercises to do!)

I ride weekly.....one day 38 varied miles at 90% effort , two other 19 mile days, also at high effort. The forth day mountain bike 12 miles on single track. If it's a non bike day, I go to the gym and do 8 different upper body stations (bench, curls, military press, tricep, pulldowns, etc. three sets of 12 reps on each). Some days I just relax. I'm 62 years old and have gone from 250 to 228 lbs. I pass people on the road that are 30 years younger than I. I'm not bragging, I'm just making the point that whenever you think you "are maxed out", that's all it is....a thought. Go past your limits, generally after the 1st half hour, your body kicks in to fat burning mode.....go two more hours. Your only limitation is your pre-concieved notion of what hi level exercise is! It's OK to be a killer cyclist AND have big biceps. Raydog

Its HOW you lift, and HOW you eat. If you lift HARD (tons of weight with low reps) you'll be doing alot of micro tearing of the muscles. If you do this then eat too little, you'll over work the muscles and get injured. The muscle tissue will not fully recover because you have not provided enough nutrients to repair the damage. If, on the other hand you stick with light weights and higher reps, you'll still be working out the muscles. But the micro tearing will be at a minimum. You'll still be burning tons of calories through working the muscle, just not damaging it to the same extent, thus don't need to physically repair as much muscle tissue. Yes when you lift hard you are actually damaging muscle tissue, in a good way. :)

We all agree diet is a MASSIVE factor in weight loss and gain, but knowing HOW to lift to get lean/big, is important as well.

Perfect explanation!:thumb:......I know what Richard meant when he said add more weigh to the bar and you WILL get bigger". Not exact words so don't strawman me Richard!:D

Above explanation is what I read back in my days of pumping iron. I did the "5 sets of 10 reps" of every iron exercise possible. My muscles got hard but I was still a 190 lb skinny guy. Knowing that highreps at low weights only tore down the muscles in a small way. I decreased the reps, then added low reps at heavier weights. Then finished off with a burning exercise.

After I experimented a bit with weights, I went from 190 to 220 and I wasn't fat. My muscles were bigger and I weighed more! As soon as I started doing heavier low reps, I went from benching 220 to 330 rather quickly. It was more about knowing and figuring out how to lift than it was about taking in calories. Knowing how to work the large muscles groups heavily without overworking, then work into a finsihing exercise of the small muscle groups is the trick to gaining weight through lifting!;)


Went from 190 to 220. Gawd I'm getting old!(:...I was 28 in the picture!:D....I was no Arnold but I think Gina is going to put me on a diet.:P
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/gulpxtreme/backthen.jpg

Thanks for all the replies. I got some more questions for those of you that brough up new info. I hope you'll answer if you can.

Yes, I'm sort of plateauing. At best I lose a pound or two, at worst I gain a pound or two.

So some of you are saying that muscle building only happens if I put the calories into it? So, working out will add no weight to my body?

And otee453, Since my main workout has been walking the stairs at school, I should stop that and do something else? Such as riding my bike at home for my primary cardio and do stairs once a week or so. And also change my weight lifting routine as well?

And since I'm 260, 6' should I consider jogging? (I hate running though, and it has not been on my list of exercises to do!)


I like to switch from doing my run/bike/swim with weight training, to less of the run/bike/swim (but still do them) and more committment to a difficult circuit training plan that has lighter weights. I can see improvements in my overall conditioning at the completion of each program. It does sound like you have not reached that level of fitness yet, but you can. As I stated, I think changing it up is the key. Running is not neccesary. Look at cross-fit for circuit ideas. Start easy and slow, do an 8 or 12 week program and then go to a more dedicated bike program for 8 or 12 weeks.

When you change things up, you will discover your "old" routine had become nothing more than routine. You thought you were working hard, but find you were just going through the motions for quite awhile. At least that has been my experience. Dont forget the diet, as it is 75% or more of the equation..... keep it tight and clean.

And to answer your question, YES, change now.
Good luck