Road Cycling - Centurion Ironman Restoration

Hey all,

I decided to repost these in this forum, because it dawned on me that this really where it belongs...

I am in ther process of restoring my old Centurion Expert Ironman (Dave Scott). I bought it in 1989, and road it for about a year, then stored it away as I took up MTB'ing. Road it a few times in 1995, just for fun, then back on the wall of my garage. Now that it has been many years, I pulled it down off the wall of my garage and I have started complete restoration, beginning with the Tires. I have completely repacked and installed new ball bearings, and they run smooth.

But, I do have a question. The tires have been sitting up there for 9 years, and I have noticed the adhesive holding the wire to base of the tire is starting to get a little brittle. The tires are still in good shape physically, ie no cracks etc. However, is it really worth reusing the old tires? Or, should I just go to the local shop and get some new ones?

I kinda like these old tires, (Technova Panaracers) as the tread is still in good shape, and would hate to chuck them if I don't have to. Other than the adhesive looking a bit old, what else should I be looking for?
Thanks,

Patriot

Just to let you all know, I have the Expert Ironman, with the Suntour GPX equipment. Not top of the line, but sure was nice in its day. The rims are Araya, and so far they haven't needed much truing, but then it probably only has a few hundred miles on them.

I know this bike is a little heavier than todays bikes, but I weigh about 200#, and the extra pound or two doesn't really bother me. If I decide to get into some local tours, then I may use this one for training, and invest in a newer one for racing.
I do love this bike though. I like the white and bluish/gray airbrush paint job. I just got done cleaning up the wheels, and they look alot better than I thought they would. Nice and shiny for a 15 year old bike.
I got some new Pedro's white cork wrap off ebay, which resembles the original. I need some new stuff, but don't want to deviate too much from its original setup, just because I like the way it was originally made.

I just went out to the garage and really eyeballed the tires. When I really bend them in my fingers, I notice tons of cracking in the rubber. Bad, bad, bad. I need new tires, no big deal.

I will soon post some pics of the work I am doing, just for fun.

Patriot

Well, I got both wheels completely restored the best I could. They have been completely broken down, and scrubbed with Simple Gree. All grease removed and hubs repacked with some green, waterproof ball bearing grease. New ball bearings were installed as well. All corrosion was removed from parts and polished. All spokes were also scrubbed and surface corrosion removed and polished with steel wool. Used a dremmel in the tight spots.

The front hub had alot of paint peeling, so I just stripped the paint off with Gun Scrubber solvent down to bare metal and polished the hub shiny, then clear coated to protect the finish. Looks beautiful, even better than the original. I have to admit, I really like the bare metal shine.

The back wheel hub is still in excellent condition with no paint peeling etc, so I will leave it alone.

The rubber rim liners appear to be in excellent conditon with no cracks and are very flexible. So, I will reuse them. Got some new tubes, and just waiting to get back off vacation to get some new tires.

Here's a couple of pics of my progress so far.

Patriot

Well I have been busy with work, etc but trying to get time to get this thing restored as carfully as I can without damaging anything. So far, it looks great, but I am thinking someday, I may just strip it all down and repaint it with my own personal colors, and or have it powder coated to match the original paint job. Not sure yet.

Included is a pic of the brakes. Completely torn down cleaned, lubed and reinstalled.

Also, the handle bars I have stripped, cleaned the white rubber grips with some strong stuff to get them white again.

I then polished the handle bars, and rewrapped them with Pedro's Milano cork. Looks puurrrrrty.

Included is a pic of the latest addition. Ya know I never had a water bottle on my bike before? Can't believe it myself.

Patriot

Just to let all of you know. I got rid of the old tires and got some new Vittoria Rubino Pro tires with blue. Also installed new cloth rim tape, and new tubes.

I of course had to get rid of the old Panaracer tires, they were cracking. Glad I wasn't crazy enough to try and use them again.

Just got done restoring the rear derailer. It got a bit scratched in a fall, but I buffed out most of it, so it's good. I am amazed at how well the old Suntour GPX componentry still works. The index shifters work beautifully for their age, and the abuse they went through when I first bought the bike. Although I have to admit, it took me a while to tune it up. Luckily, all of the old cables are in great shape.

Patriot

P.S. By the way, can you guys and gals see the pics I uploaded ok? Not sure if it worked or not.

I can see the pictures just fine.
A friend of mine had that bike, back when I had my Trek 660. We were very close to the same size and swapped bikes once in a while, nice bike. i liked it almost as much as my Trek.

I am 6'3", so I got the 60cm frame. I just wish the paint job was mint. I had to get some automotive touchup paint with a little brush and fill in some little chips here and there.
I know alot of the newer frames are Titanium, carbon fiber etc, but I just like the old Tange steel for some reason, call me sentimental, but I think it is darn near as good as anything else unless you race alot.

Patriot I had an Ironman it was my first bike. It came equiped with Bio-Pace chainrings which are about the most damaging thing to knee's known to man. If yours has these I'd recommend changing them out before you do any serious miles.

Hey! Fellow Centurion Ironman owner here. I have a the Dave Scott Ironman Master. I just picked it up used about a month ago. I'm the 3rd owner of this bike, it's gone through a little transformation since 1988. It still has Shimano 600 hubs but the rims are MAVIC (they might have been standard on the Master, I dunno, came with when I bought it). I put an ISIS Truvativ Elita Triple on it, FSA Platinum Pro ISIS BB, Ultegra derailuers, Ritchey WCS seatpost, Selle Bassano saddle, Shimano PD-R540 pedals...

Glad to find more Centurion owners out there!

Actually everything on the bike is Suntour GPX components and brakes. Only thing not Suntour is the rims and frame, that's about it.

What do you guys think about rebuilding it with all new components, like Ultegra derailer, cassette, and maybe an FSA carbon crank or the like? Also, what about maybe a new set of Neuvation aero wheels? Would it be worth it for this bike frame? I kinda think it would be cool, especially if I gave it a custom paint job.

Patriot

Hi Patriot!

Are you running 650 0r 700C wheels on your Centurion? The reason I'm asking is I recently won a Dave Scott frame on Ebay, so I need to watch for some new rims to build up.

Cheers!

In 1989, the Expert came with Suntour GPX and the Master had 105. The Expert was my first road bike and I wish I still had it - but alas, somebody wanted it more and helped themself to it.

Bastard.

55/Rad

Actually everything on the bike is Suntour GPX components and brakes. Only thing not Suntour is the rims and frame, that's about it.

What do you guys think about rebuilding it with all new components, like Ultegra derailer, cassette, and maybe an FSA carbon crank or the like? Also, what about maybe a new set of Neuvation aero wheels? Would it be worth it for this bike frame? I kinda think it would be cool, especially if I gave it a custom paint job.

Patriot

I think it'd be pretty cool. Especially if you kept the name/model on the frame after the paint job. From what I can tell, for its age (and at least for the Master), a Tange #1 steel frame is a nice frame. The only Tange steel frame that's better is Tange Presitge, but they seem pretty rare. Oh, be sure to you the Tange steel number back on the frame too if you paint it.

There should be....or we should start...a Centurion registry or club. Perhaps just for the Ironman models? Just a thought...might be fun.

I have to really look at it to find the nuumber on the Tange frame. If I repainted it myself, I think i would just use some good two part automotive paints with a high quality pearl, and good like the pros use. I was thinking blue and white to match the wheels and handlebars, and have some silver accents.

I would definitely get some decals and put the Centurion name back on, and also maybe put my name on it, just for me. But my last name is Meisenheimer, so it would need to be small and obscure letters somewhere not very noticable.

I keep wondering if it would be worth it to go with some new components. Like DA or even some other high end stuff like Cane Creek? I like those new Neuvation aero wheels too. The Suntour stuff is nice and still works, but they got pretty banged and scuffed up from a couple crashes.

Would this Tange frame be worth it to install some really high quality stuff? It is a pretty light bike as is for its age.

I weighed it yesturday and it comes in at about 22 lbs. Not bad for a stock bike from 1990.

Any ideas would really help out guys, including some painting ideas for future referance, ,as I plan to keep it the same for now. Thanks for the support.

Patriot

Oh yeah, I am definitely running 700c wheels, especially with a 60cm frame. Boy, would it look funny with little wheels on such a tall frame. All though, you never know, it might just be the next craze. LOL

Patriot

Ok then, so be it.

Let the registrty begin......

1. Patriot- Centurion Ironman Expert (Dave Scott)- Frame #N9E6186.

I think if you were to go "Ultra" highend, going with more "independent" companies would be a cooler idea...make it more unique. Personally I think I'd shy away from DA, but I think Chris King, or Cane Creak, Phil Wood, etc. would be awesome. Does Chris King make a threaded headset?

Not sure if Chris King does or not, but I am pretty sure Cane Creek does. Maybe?

The real question I guess I have is whether or not the frame is really worthy of such nice components. What do you guys think?

Agreed, a Cane Creek setup would be totally sweet. But big bucks as well. Quite a bit out of my budget right now.

Patriot

2. TheDL - Centurion Ironman Master (Dave Scott) - N8E7812

ps. The letter before the 8 on my bb shell is kind rubbed off but I'm guessing it was an "N" due to Patriot's number.

I think the level of components the frame is "worthy" of is up to you. If you abosolutely love the frame then you may justify it's worth the best. What may be a more satisfying challenge is to build it up "smartly"...which again is up to personal interpretation.

Anyone with the spare time and web design skill want to put a Centurion registry site together?

ok, not sure about this, but, what exactly do you mean by building it up "smartly"?

Patriot

Bummer, just found that the rear wheel is about 1-2mm out of round. It should be ok for another year or so, but I will have to eventually get some new ones.

Patriot

Bummer, just found that the rear wheel is about 1-2mm out of round. It should be ok for another year or so, but I will have to eventually get some new ones.
It's the original Araya isn't it? I was 6' and 175 lbs when I had my Ironman ('89-90) but I was truing those suckers every week. I was on the verge of replacing them when the bike was stolen.

Good thread.

55/Rad

Yes they are the original Araya's. It says on the rim, "super hard", but I don't buy it. More like, "WET NOODLE", if you ask me. LOL

But, they will have to do until next spring, then I think I will strip this baby and really make something special out of it.

I already have some ideas that would make some of you really drool. hehe

Patriot

To me, building it "smartly" means building it to meet your needs, while getting the best bang for you buck. For example....I did the research, and hunted, and waited...and I was able to get Ultegra derailuers for 105 prices. So...unless you plan on racing...I doubt you really need DA components. But under the "smartly plan" a Chris King (or equivalent) headset wouldn't neccessarily be out of question because we all know Chris Kings last forever; you'd be buying it for longevity. The challenge would be getting one for "cheap". :D

Today I put on all the old components and took it for a bit of a test ride down the road. The frame is a Tange #1 cro-mo. I assume that is their good frame from those days. Also, I used the beat up old toe clipped pedals, not the greatest but good enough to check the grupo running smoothly.

One thing I noticed going up a steep hill on our road, when I shifted down to the third gear and using the small chain ring 52/42, I was really pumping to get up this hill. I noticed that the flex in the frame was so great from my power stroke, that the chain ring would move enough side to side to rub the chain from one side of the front derailer to the other on each stroke. Is this a major problem?
I hope the frame is ok, I don't see any cracks or damage to the crankcase, and everything seems very tight.

Patriot

I think the flex, evidenced by the chain rub, is just the nature of steel. At least steel back in that day...not sure what modern day Henry James, Columbus, or True Temper is like.

Not sure if Chris King does or not, but I am pretty sure Cane Creek does. Maybe?

The real question I guess I have is whether or not the frame is really worthy of such nice components. What do you guys think?

Agreed, a Cane Creek setup would be totally sweet. But big bucks as well. Quite a bit out of my budget right now.

Patriot
It's probably got a JIS standard 1" HS, not the ame as current 1" iso standard.

Here's a pic of my new saddle. I kind of liked the old one, but that was 15 years ago. I found over the last 15 years, that my sit bones are just slightly further apart now than before. Also, the old Avenir seat was murder, very hard surface to sit on.

I picked up a Lookin racing saddle, with a really nice gel cushion in the contact area. It is much more comfortable than the old rock hard seat I had on there.

One drawback, the new seat does weigh 3ozs more than the old, but that is sometimes what you pay for when you get a little extra padding and comfort, along with a 1/2" wider seating area. The old seat was just too narrow.

I figured, as long as I was at it, I also went and removed the seat post and polished it with a dremel wire wheel to a nice shine.

And, not sure if you can really tell, but the new Rubino Pro kevlar tires with the blue coloring really look sharp with this bike. The all black would look cool too, but I really liked the blue.

Patriot

Finally got my new pedals from Nashbar. I have never used clipless before, ,so I started off with the cheaper Look knockoffs with the Nashbar name on them. I really like them, much better than toe clips.

I also got a wedge for under the seat, and filled it with a multi-tool, ,extra tube, tire levers, and spare patches, just in case. There is still enough room for a powerbar.

Went for a test ride, all seems to be working good. I need some special wrenches though, as the threaded Tange headset keeps coming loose, and I don't have a skinny enough wrench to tighten the two nuts together to lock it in place.

Well boys and girls, here she is. I finally got everything done. I also removed the reflectors from the wheels. I noticed going down a steep hill, the wheels were really wobbly, but nice and smooth now that I removed the reflectors.

I am really surprised how smooth she still runs at top speed. I was going down a huge hill, in the highest gear, and I could barely pedal fast enough. I must have exceeded the 45mph speed limit. All I heard was the Rubinos soft whine, and the quiet clicking of a well lubed hub. She shot along smooth as teflon. Gotta love these old Tange #1 steel frames.

I just got done giving it a coat of wax to help preserve the paint job. I managed to buff out alot of the scratches, and filled in alot of the tiny chips with touch-up paint. The paint isn't a perfect match, but you don't really notice it unless you really look carefully up close.

I have to admit, I was thinking about rebuilding the bike and giving it a new paint job, but have decided not to. I really love the old blue marble paint job, so retro from the 80's. Ah, the glory years. :)

Also, the new blue tires look great with the older frame. So does the blue and white handle bar wrap. I am surprised at how well everything is still running, especially after so many years. And now it is cleaned up so nice, the bike only looks like a year or two old.

Anyway, I think I will keep this one and ride it for the next year. But, next year I really want to get a nice frame and build up a really good bike, and just keep the old Centurion for kind of a keepsake. I don't think I will ever get rid of my Centurion. I actually thought about selling it a few years back, but just didn't have the heart to do it. Now, I am so glad I kept it. I have alot of memories on that bike from my early days in the Navy. It was the first bike I bought by myself with my own money. So, I HAVE to keep it.

I would like to thank all of you who have helped me with all of the advice you gave me, so I could get my baby up and running. Not only here, but in all of the other threads where I asked so many questions concerning building and restoration. Thanks. :)

Anyway, before I take up too much webspace, here are the finished pics.

:D Ain't she a SWEETHEART? :D

Sweet!!!!

Seeing that all nice and clean brings back a ton of memories - it's even the same color as mine was. Decals, everything. It really looks great - good job.

What size is it? Mine was a 60 which turns out to be much larger than any of my current bikes, (58, 57 and 55) although it seemed to fit at the time. I have one picture of mine from the 1990 Rosarita Run in Mexico. Thanks for the stroll....

55/Rad

That's a great looking bike, Patriot! Can I borrow it? :D

Well, I am 6'2", and have a 35.5 inch inseam. So, I got the 60cm frame with the 59cm top tube, and 125mm custom stem.

I used the fit calculator on CompetitiveCyclist.com, and my bike is set up exactly where the measurements should be for a competitive-fit, except for one. The only measurement just slighty out of the range is the saddle setback. It is setback 1cm too far, which puts it in the Eddy-fit category. I don't think this is a problem because I have long legs and long upper legs, so the setback should be actually work out to my advantage as far as comfort goes.

I would gladly let you borrow it, but somehow, I have the feeling it may not come back. LOL :D

I think I will keep this bike until I die.

I bought my dave scott ironman in 1988 in a bike shop in tampa. It was in storage for 16 years, and is in new condition. Now I ride it on a daily basis. This bike was made in Japan. I paid about $700.00 in 1988

Can anyone tell me anything about the quality of this bike? The only problem I have is it skips between 8th and 9th gear. I've changed the chain and the tires, added a speedometer and a more comfortable seat.

The guy at the bike shop I go to says replacement value is around $1,200.00.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

tampadanny@yahoo.com

Mine did the same thing. When I restored it, I had to really take some time, and carefully readjust the index shifting and the cable location on the derailleur. After tuning it several times and riding it for a while to stretch the cables a little, I finially got it to where it shifts beautifully now.
The quality of the bike is middle range quality, even for today. Mainly tyhe quality comes in the frame. The TANGE #1 frame is agood frame, but the components are marginal. Mine are the Suntour GPX components. The work very well, but archaeic compared to modern day stuff. I will most likely regroup the bike next year after I run the Suntour stuff into the ground. Ultegra will most likely be my coice, as those components are easy to come by, and are affordable.
As long as you take good care of a Centurion, they will last many years.

$1200 replacement value seems accurate, given it was about $700 new way back when. Suntour GPX was considered by many to be comparable to the 105 of the day, though others considered it a step below. The year I bought mine, the Master came with 105 and the Expert had the GPX, but other years the Expert had 105 and the Master 600.

Question - it skips between 8th and 9th gear? Mine only had a 6 speed cassette - what am I missing?

55/Rad

I think he means between the 3rd and 4th gear on the upper chainring, or something like that, as the Suntour GPX has a 52/42 crankset, and believe it or not, mine is a 13/24 "7spd" cassette. Yeah, you read that right, 7spd, can you believe it? Woohoo, not bad for an 80's machine. I bought it on sale for $459 at the end of 1989 (closeout sale).

THANK GOD I stumbled upon this site! I was given a 1989 (approx) Centurion Ironman Expert, and am in the early stages of restoration. This is amazing really.

Many questions, but my first is simply, how do I loosen the Suntour GPX brake levers?? I am upgrading the stem, but cannot remove the original until I figure out how to slide off the brake levers first.

Thanks very much. I look forward to communicating with this group often (and learning a lot). Pls feel free to email me directly ANYTIME.

You have to loosen the cable connection to the brake caliper first, so the caliper won't operate, or just remove the wheel. Then compress the lever as far as it will go. Looking in the front of the brake, you will see a bolt you need to loosen with an allen wrench. This will remove the lever. Then start unwrapping the bar tape to remove the brake cable underneath.

Problem solved. Much thanks to 55/Rad for the email.

Also, thanks to Patriot for the response. Right on the money.

My first serious road bike was a Centurion Ironman!

I think it was white with black splats, and had Ultegra on it.....or maybe it had something else on it and I slowly upgraded, I can't remember.

That was back when I had a strange handlebar fetish. Damn you Boone Lennon!

Patriot, I have a Centurion Comp TA which I bought right after the '84 Olympics. It hung in my garage for about 19 years unused until last year. You were right replace the tires. It sounds like mine were about the same condition as yours and they flatted after a few rides through the sidewall.

I kind of remember the Ironman edition. I guess that it came out after I bought my bike. I've got Shimano 600 components with the Araya wheels.

I remember paying $425 for it. What's it worth now?

I have no idea what it's worth now. I have since added a pannier rack w/trunk bag, and extra bottle cage with a 16w Cygo-Lite for commuting. Most of the paint on th eold frame is still in good condition, so I won't be worrying about repainting anytime soon.

This is all moot, as I don't plan on selling her, since she runs beautifully, though a heavy bike with all the accessories. About 25-27#, and close to 30# when full of stuff for my commute.

This bike is tuned so well, I doubt many used bikes this old would still run this good with this many miles. It still has all of the original componentry and original cables. Everything works smoothly, with never a hitch. That old Suntour GPX stuff seems almost indestructible.

Wow, there's a lot of Centurian Ironman bikes floating around. I've got a Sport DLX (lower end early 80's) that I'm repainting and building and I finally got to take TheCahill's repainted Ironman Expert around the block a couple times this evening. Man, compared to my Traveler that thing just GOES! Really enjoyable ride and wish I would have snagged the frame but it was just a hair too small for me.

Patriot - good looking finished product you have there now that she's all cleaned up. Just be thankful that yours is mostly white instead of the reverse of the color scheme. That teal green color is ungodly in large amounts!

I used to have a 1989 Centurion Ironman Expert myself in a 60 cm size. The bike got a great review in a Summer 1989 issue of Bicycle Guide (too bad this magazine went away years ago). I bought it in September 1989 for $500. I made a few modifications to it at the time. I replaced the SR Sakae handlebar and stem with a Cinelli 66 bar and a black Cinelli XA stem. The stock Vetta saddle (a copy of the Selle Italia Mundialita - sp?) was replaced by an Avocet Racing 1 saddle. The Sampson Stratics pedals (one of the worst set of clipless pedals ever invented) were replaced by Shimano 105 Look pedals. I even had a second set of wheels built up - Campy Athena hubs with Nashbar (made by Sun) hard anodized tubular aero rims, Wolber tubular tires, and a Suntour Winner Pro 13-21 freewheel.

Suntour GPX parts were great parts at the time. The group was often called the Shimano 600 killer (in fact the GPX and 600 rear deraileurs looked almost exactly the same). The weak link in the group was the brakes...they had kind of a mushy feel and not much stopping power.

The bike had an awesome blue smoke paint job which matched the color of the GPX components. The Ironman Master with the Shimano 600 group had a grey marble paint job which matched the color of the 600 components. Centurion bikes had the best production bike paint jobs on the market at the time.

Ahhh the good old days. Time for me to break out one of my 80s music CDs.

This thread is really making me miss my Ironman Expert(1988, I believe), which is sitting in a garage in Vancouver :(

I have a Centurion Sport Dlx. It's Tange Infinity... double-butted, seamed and drawn tubing. Made in Taiwan.

The previous owner was a college roommate who put it together working part time as a bike mechanic. It's got old-school 105 components pretty much everywhere. I think one wheel is an RSX and the front derailleur is a Suntour GPX.

the paint scheme is white to school-bus-yellow fade... you see that on a lot of Cent. Le Tours.

It was my first road bike. My Cannondale is a lighter bike with a better fit and a smoother ride (!), but I have a soft spot for this bike *as does the previous owner*... I'm thinking about putting a rack on it.